Prime Casino remove my money from Neteller!

[Casinomeister]

I'm on this now.

 

[Casinomeister]

All the problems appear, including mine with Wofacai, to be coming from Cypriot owned/registered entities these days. Not sure what it is about that place, but I've had enough of it now, deffo a country to avoid.

I like the original terms at Prime best, contained gems like this...

Prime Casino is registered in Cyprus and is incorporated under whatever Elad said to put there.

Cyprus is just merely a place where a lot of banking takes place. Many casinos use this to include Cryptos and Playtechs.

 

[Zoozie]

This is disturbing news that this happens at a MG casino. I am very disgusted by this, if it is true and the facts are correct of course. Incidents of this magnitude are rare (Fortune Lounge). Grand Prive was not this serious.

I am still surprised the casino actually can deposit money from your neteller account to the casino(and then confiscate them). How is this possible without
knowing the 6 digit code? Every time you deposit at MG you have to type this number, and I am pretty sure the software
does not save/store this number anywhere, it would be a security breach. So is it because the casino can 'undo' the last
transaction without knowing the code? Then it must be because Neteller allows to undo a transactions.

And changing how the EZ bonus work is also very misleading. Even when you go to the withdrawal page AT PRISM casino it states
that you can withdraw your money at any time and bonus will be forfeited and you have to accept you will forfeit the bonus. This is because
this withdrawal page is the same for all MG casinos. So what do you trust, T&C changed overnight which you did not know, or believing
what it says on the withdrawal page? And the MG brand will suffer when the casino changes the standard EZ bonus to what ever they want
which the software actually does not support!!! Unbelivable. Seems Prism casino chose the wrong platform for the casino. The Playtech or
RTG platform are much better for this kind of casino management...

Also bash_2357 did not even 'abuse' the bonus in any way - ie. betting full balance on BJ etc. Playing 5$ power VP is not 'advantage player' style.

Zoozie

 

[XXLClubCasino]

With all your respect you arent the best to qualify to disagree in regards to breaking terms and conditions

You are just as useless in regards to responding, and the similar

besides you have caps on wothdrawals, which you dont notify your players about

Hi Uungy

Please explain me either in the thread or in a PM where you feel our Casino is misleading players. I was always very confident that our T&C is clear and that all our commercial emails contain all needed information needed by the player to fully understand the given bonus or free cash.

I would be more than happy if you could point me to where you found something to be unclear or could be wrongly interpreted. I would then have it corrected or improved.

Thanks in advance, frank

 

[vinylweatherman]

Cyprus is just merely a place where a lot of banking takes place. Many casinos use this to include Cryptos and Playtechs.

Well, this is truly sloppy, a legal contract that has a line "whatever Elad said to put here".

This just look so BAD for the casino, it implies that the intention was to construct a term along the lines of "legally licenced and insured", but they cocked up & forgot to replace the marker with the actual name of the entity they wanted to appear to be incorporated under.

Whatever the other points of this case are, the really big issue I feel is the arbitrary removal of already paid funds from the players personal Neteller account. This could turn out to have been an illegal act, but it will require a ruling from the FSA and or Isle of Man. Under UK law, before recovery of a debt can take place, a proper process must be gone through, it is not good enough to just send the "heavies" round and just take it!
Once the casino thought this sum was owed back to it, it should have proceeded in a proper manner in order to resolve the problem. Time and time again, where players are in a similar position, they can resort to the chargeback to resolve the issue, but by and large they dont, they contact the casino, and if that fails they go through a dispute resolution process if one is available, and generally have to accept the ruling.
It seems in this case, these two players have been treated not as customers, but as bitter enemies who had covertly raided the bunkers for 1000 credits or so, so a commando raid behind enemy lines straight to Neteller was sanctioned, while the player, thinking Neteller well enough defended, did not think that they even needed to get the money out ASAP so that the enemy raid could not grab it back.
As Neteller said, had the money not been there two weeks later, Prime would not have got it!
The moral is that to protect against this kind of behaviour, players just need to ensure that they dont leave withdrawals lying around in their Neteller accounts.
Fortune Lounge were rogued merely for refusing to pay bonus players, but they never stooped so low as to retrospectively raid Neteller accounts of those bonus players whom they had paid before and felt they shouldn't have.

Whether the player is right or wrong is now a minor issue, it is the Neteller raids that are the huge worry, many players did not think this kind of act was even possible, and now trust has been ruined, and it can never fully recover until Neteller make a cast iron promise that they will never allow this kind of thing in future.

The only safe way to play at Prime (and any other casino that gains a reputation for charging back Neteller credits) is to deposit with UKash or Western Union, and withdraw by Western Union or similar. This would ensure that once you got paid, you stayed paid, and the advantage for Prime would be that players cannot do a "chargeback" from UKash or WU.

 

[PrimeGaming]

A fair compromise.

Josh, Can you explain why you didn't even have the courtesy to explain to players that you had taken money from their neteller accounts? This is underhand.

Also, a reasonable casino would allow us to complete the wagering not to void all winnings. I am prepared to do this.

There is little doubt that this negative publicity is not going to help Prime. I URGE you to reconsider for the sake of probably a few hundred pounss ( which will be the case after you make me wager it !).

I would really like to know what CM's view on this is?

Hi Mohammed,

There is nothing I can do about Neteller "pulling back" payouts. This is something that every Casino is able to do and I don't imagine that it's going to change any time soon. I understand that this is a major issue for some of you but try to understand that the terms, regardless of what they were before, were this way when you intitially deposited. I have confirmation from support regarding this so your accusations of us not paying you out because you were on the old terms are simply not true. At the time you deposited, the new terms and conditions were in place and I've paid out a significant number of people who were on the old T&C's to be aware of who is and isn't on the list.

Having said that though, here is what I'm going to do. I believe that all of you have a valid point here and after sleeping on it, I agree that you should still be given the opportunity to play through your wagering requirements and not have your winnings simply "stripped away". I'm going to put your money back into your Casino account and when you finish the wagering requirements, you'll be free to withdraw.

I've contacted support and instructed them to take care of you and you should see your winnings back in your Casino account within the hour. I apologize for this inconvenience but I stand by what I said before regarding the T&C's. It is every players' responsibility to read and understand the terms before they deposit. I can't be held responsible for what you believe to be true based on other Casino experiences.

I hope that all of you find this to be fair and reasonable and if there are any other concerns along this vein, please PM me or email me first before getting upset in a thread in this forum. I'm always happy to hear what you have to say and to take suggestions seriously from the good people at CasinoMeister.

Best Regards,

Josh.

 

[uungy]

Hi Uungy

Please explain me either in the thread or in a PM where you feel our Casino is misleading players. I was always very confident that our T&C is clear and that all our commercial emails contain all needed information needed by the player to fully understand the given bonus or free cash.

I would be more than happy if you could point me to where you found something to be unclear or could be wrongly interpreted. I would then have it corrected or improved.

Thanks in advance, frank

In the past you have also had misleading emails, and as for having it corrected, that may be the case, however for previous cases prior to having it corrected, you displayed different terms

Its a similar situation to here, as you wouldnt go back on to the original terms, and "Frank" I believe the Manager, was really rude about it, and decided against communicating.

So I think out of the many casinos out there, you are the last to complain in regards to casinos changing direction after displaying one set of terms

 

[bash_2357]

Hi Mohammed,

There is nothing I can do about Neteller "pulling back" payouts. This is something that every Casino is able to do and I don't imagine that it's going to change any time soon. I understand that this is a major issue for some of you but try to understand that the terms, regardless of what they were before, were this way when you intitially deposited. I have confirmation from support regarding this so your accusations of us not paying you out because you were on the old terms are simply not true. At the time you deposited, the new terms and conditions were in place and I've paid out a significant number of people who were on the old T&C's to be aware of who is and isn't on the list.

Having said that though, here is what I'm going to do. I believe that all of you have a valid point here and after sleeping on it, I agree that you should still be given the opportunity to play through your wagering requirements and not have your winnings simply "stripped away". I'm going to put your money back into your Casino account and when you finish the wagering requirements, you'll be free to withdraw.

I've contacted support and instructed them to take care of you and you should see your winnings back in your Casino account within the hour. I apologize for this inconvenience but I stand by what I said before regarding the T&C's. It is every players' responsibility to read and understand the terms before they deposit. I can't be held responsible for what you believe to be true based on other Casino experiences.

I hope that all of you find this to be fair and reasonable and if there are any other concerns along this vein, please PM me or email me first before getting upset in a thread in this forum. I'm always happy to hear what you have to say and to take suggestions seriously from the good people at CasinoMeister.

Best Regards,

Josh.

Josh, I am glad you are finally seeing some sense in the issue. It is a shame it has taken so long and involved so many people. Can you confirm that my account will be credited with 1130 ( i.e including the bonus that was removed?). Otherwise, it simply does not make sense for me to continue wagering as there is no bonus attached to it.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

In the past you have also had misleading emails, and as for having it corrected, that may be the case, however for previous cases prior to having it corrected, you displayed different terms

Its a similar situation to here, as you wouldnt go back on to the original terms, and "Frank" I believe the Manager, was really rude about it, and decided against communicating.

So I think out of the many casinos out there, you are the last to complain in regards to casinos changing direction after displaying one set of terms

We never changed our T&C since our opening except for adding PokerThree as a restricted game and pointing out in bold that restricted games can't be played before meeting WR. No players were ever catch in those changes we even paid out a check of 1500 to a "smart" player that played PokerThree and win 3 week after our T&C changes.

Please PM me your case for me to review, it's important to me as I do not agree to your statement "So I think out of the many casinos out there, you are the last to complain in regards to casinos changing direction after displaying one set of terms".

We try very hard not to mislead or trap any players as we are looking for long term profit and no quick and dirty benefits.

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Hi Mohammed,
Having said that though, here is what I'm going to do. I believe that all of you have a valid point here and after sleeping on it, I agree that you should still be given the opportunity to play through your wagering requirements and not have your winnings simply "stripped away". I'm going to put your money back into your Casino account and when you finish the wagering requirements, you'll be free to withdraw.

Congratulation Josh,

This was the right decision to take and it will benefit all the online gambling industry.:notworthy

 

[Vesuvio]

Re: Neteller - I've had experience (and I'm sure others have too), of a casino paying me twice and then taking the extra money back from Neteller when they realised. Although I was shocked they were able to take money from my account without informing me (and lost some trust in Neteller), they had a fairly strong case

This issue here is a hundred times worse. It looks like two weeks after the fact a casino can persuade Neteller to allow them to take money from someone's account for a mere technicality, with the casino taking no responsibility for their previous actions (actually I'd love to know what they told Neteller - I'd be very surprised if it was the same explanation we've been given here).

As others have mentioned, this is the casino equivalent of a player making a charge back. It shouldn't be possible, and wouldn't be with most payment methods. In the current situation Neteller can't afford to alienate their customers, and they need to rethink this issue. These chargebacks, if allowed at all, should be restricted to blatant errors (e.g. paying someone twice). In any case the customer should be contacted.

Otherwise Neteller's Achilles' heel - their being so dependent on casinos - could be their undoing in areas other than North America (a lot of players are already wary of keeping more than minimum funds with them).

 

[Casinomeister]

...I like the original terms at Prime best, contained gems like this...

Prime Casino is registered in Cyprus and is incorporated under whatever Elad said to put there.

Funny you should have this. This was posted on their site three weeks before they launched - more or less like a rough draft. I reviewed their website a few weeks ago and didn't see this.

Anyway - good that the smoke is clearing on this. I think the resolution is fair, and I hope this issue is settled.

 

[spearmaster]

In addition, we're not pioneers in this respect either as Playtech seems to generally follow this rule as well. In addition, their requirements are twice as hard to meet.

Joshu -

I hope you have the balls to apologize for claiming that Playtech follows any rule - because they don't run any casinos and each operator makes its own decisions. The least you can do is get your facts straight.

 

[PrimeGaming]

Josh, I am glad you are finally seeing some sense in the issue. It is a shame it has taken so long and involved so many people. Can you confirm that my account will be credited with 1130 ( i.e including the bonus that was removed?). Otherwise, it simply does not make sense for me to continue wagering as there is no bonus attached to it.

Mohammed,

I'm not "finally seeing some sense" at all. You have not been truthful with any of us regarding the initial T&C's as I can clearly see that on the day you deposited, the new T&C's were in place. Telling me they aren't is not going to change the reality that you haven't been truthful. As a good faith gesture to you and everyone else in this thread, I decided to put the money back in your account because I agree that this is something we should do for everyone. Even for those who make claims that aren't true.

Enjoy the rest of your stay at our Casino,

Josh.

 

[PrimeGaming]

My facts are straight

Joshu -

I hope you have the balls to apologize for claiming that Playtech follows any rule - because they don't run any casinos and each operator makes its own decisions. The least you can do is get your facts straight.

Hi Spearmaster,

You've unfortunately picked the wrong person to have a Playtech discussion with. I worked at Casino Partners for over a year as an Affiliate Manager and I can tell you two things that others can verify. The first is that Casino Partners is owned by Playtech and until quite recently, so was CPays. Playtech also indirectly had a considerably large share of IOGCasinos which is now owned and operated by PartyGaming. Though Playtech is a public company, the chief shareholder is a man named Teddy Sagit. Teddy is who we all had to answer to at Partners and the same held true with CPays.

I think it's your turn to apologize, my friend.

Josh.

 

[spearmaster]

Playtech does not make rules for its operators - please tell me that all of the other operators are bound to rules as you claim.

 

[PrimeGaming]

Mincing words

Spearmaster,

All Casino operators are bound by their Terms of Service and QOS agreements with their providers. In these agreements Playtech enforces many things on their Casinos as does MGS. Your statement about Playtech wielding no influence on Casino policy is absolutely ridiculous. Unfortunately, I'm not at liberty to break my confidentiality agreement with MGS for the sake of educating you. However, know that Playtech governs its Casinos to a large extent while MGS has much less control over what we can and can't do. This is largely due to the fact that Playtech provides a complete plug and play solution for their Casinos including a functioning back-office where with MGS, only the software is provided and you must build your own. This makes things considerably more unified between Playtech Casinos than they are through MGS.

Josh.

 

[spearmaster]

Let me quote you again and ask you how in the world Playtech can exert such control over their operators, such that each of them must apply B*30 and have specific requirements that are twice as hard to meet.

I'm sorry to hear that some of you are upset about the change in our terms and conditions. Regarding withdrawals from Neteller accounts "after the fact", these payments should never have been made in the first place according to the terms and conditions. I'm sorry that you saw an initial payout but we simply do not allow withdrawals at all until the B*30 is met. Again, I'm sorry if this seems unreasonable but these are the terms and had you deposited prior to these terms taking effect, this situation would not apply to you. In addition, we're not pioneers in this respect either as Playtech seems to generally follow this rule as well. In addition, their requirements are twice as hard to meet.

If you make a claim, you better back it up with fact, my friend.

Also, I would be keen to hear what XXLClubCasino thinks of your claim...

 

[Lunkan]

I'm the other player aka23 mentioned. My case is very similiar. I signed up and deposited $100 on May 7, requested a withdrawal May 8. $80 of the bonus was voided and $667 hit my Neteller account May 11. May 22 these $667 was taken back from me.

While I'm not happy with the resolution, I too am ready to complete wagering as long as the $667 + $80 bonus is credited my casino account.

I'll send you a pm with my username, Josh.

 

[Da_Gambla]

Wow this is disturbing...

I have so many questions... where to begin?

What if this player had withdrawn by another method? When the casino decided they paid in error (and I do mean this specific error), what would have happened then?

These funds were in NT for 2 weeks... what if the player had withdrawn from NT in those 2 weeks, or made a deposit somewhere else? Would NT have created a negative balance to the player on behalf of the casino? Would the player's next deposit to NT have been confiscated to cover that negative balance?

Josh - Even though it is quite apparent that Prime performed some sort of transaction through NT that removed those funds, therefore proving you can do it, it's not right... on any level. If your security and screening process green lights a payment, and that payment is transmitted, it's over. You had your chance to dispute it long before. You come back 2 weeks later with a dispute? Bah! What do you run over there, a common street gang? It's just not going to be acceptable that you went into a player's personal account and.. damnit, let's call it what it was.. stole money from him!

If you sent him a paper check and he put it through his bank, what do you think the bank would say if you called them and asked them to send you the money back? That's right, they'd tell you to f'off. On what level is this right just because it was NT?

There are a variety of factions on this forum, with opinions sometimes so polarized that we can chew each other's heads off for days on end. But I guarantee you that every member here would unite in denouncing this action, and as it appears, even a peer casino is crying foul!

Glad you have agreed to negotiate something with the player.

but...

it's a small amount (in casino terms), and I think you should just give it back and be done with it. I don't care what terms he didn't complete, your security team dropped the ball...! You have an issue with them! Take it out of their paychecks or write it off as a loss if you have to. You cleared this player and funded him. It's over unless he wants to voluntarily play it through. You should immediately re-fund his NT account and ask him to deposit it back legitimately and play it through. You have no right to force him at this point, in my opinion.

Secondly, your casino is going to really suffer unless you state openly that this will never happen again to any player. It is going to spread like wildfire that your operation has a gun pointed at the forehead of every player who maintains a NT account, and uses it at your casino. What are you going to do now? Damage control would be a priority here, and it should happen very quickly least this fire starts spreading to all the other gambling forums.

You need to state that your security team is sufficiently trained, capable, and that all approved cashouts are FINAL. You do what you want, it's your business, but in light of this serious issue, players are going to need that extra level of trust. Good luck... do the right thing with this player.

As for the other casino reps who read this thread, thanks to Prime, we all know you all could possibly do the same thing as well. That's going to be a problem. The operations that come out with wording in their T&C's that state all cleared payments are final will be the educated consumer's first choice, so think about it. The rabbit's outta the hat here...

And now we're left with NetTeller. It would nice to know their position on this... and it would be especially good to know if Prime in any way misled them into reversing those funds. We need information there before that can get patched on their end. Hopefully NT will be interested in filling that hole and then we won't need the casino's voluntary cooperation.

Gawd this is bad.... disgusting...

- Keith

 

[GrandMaster]

There is nothing I can do about Neteller "pulling back" payouts. This is something that every Casino is able to do and I don't imagine that it's going to change any time soon.

Just because you are able to do it, it does not make it right. Imagine that I invite you to dinner at my house, and I leave my wallet lying on the table. Even if I owe you money, you have no right to helping yourself to the cash in my wallet without my permission.

I hope you are similarly sympathetic to players making chargebacks on credit cards.

 

[PrimeGaming]

Spear,

I know exactly who you are and who you work for so I find it even more entertaining that you're willing to dispute this fact with me. In addition, your first statement, "I hope you have the balls" hardly adds to your credibility and should make you even more embarassed given who you work for. Do they know that you're posting here? I'm curious because I wonder how they would feel about one of their employees acting like a 6 year old.

Are you honestly going to lie to everyone in this thread? Are you going to sit here and tell them that Playtech doesn't own Casino Partners and formerly several other Playtech Online Casinos? I'm still not understanding what you think is out of line here or if this just you taking Pot Shots at competing software. Let's take what I said once more:

"as Playtech seems to generally follow this rule as well. In addition, their requirements are twice as hard to meet."

I'm quoting myself again since you obviously have reading comprehension issues. I said that Playtech seems to generally follow this rule. For example, take Casino Tropez. This casino is owned by Casino Partners and has the following terms:

" In the interest of fair gaming in order to cash out any amount of money you must wager at least eight (8) times your play bonus plus deposit. If you withdraw before having reached the minimum wagering requirements, your bonus and winnings will be void. "

Perhaps you explain to me how what I said was incorrect. I said they "generally follow this rule". The rule being that you can't withdraw until the bonus is cleared or both your winnings and bonus will be void. I never once stated that all Playtech Casinos are the same. You simply decided that this is what I said and then twisted my words to suit your argument. Perhaps you should re-read what I initially said in order for you to better process it.

Also, I'm still waiting for you admit that Playtech DOES in fact own some of its operators: Specifically Casino Partners for example. Owning your operator, regardless of how much you think you can argue it, means that they exert some level of control over it.

Cheers,

Josh.

Let me quote you again and ask you how in the world Playtech can exert such control over their operators, such that each of them must apply B*30 and have specific requirements that are twice as hard to meet.



If you make a claim, you better back it up with fact, my friend.

Also, I would be keen to hear what XXLClubCasino thinks of your claim...

 

[XXLClubCasino]

Also, I would be keen to hear what XXLClubCasino thinks of your claim...

Spearmaster

I would simply not know for sure about this. As playtech is a publicly traded company everyone could buy playtech shares. Meaning any person owning casino partners could be holding shares in Playtech. If this make Playtech owning Cpays or Casino Partners (Euro Partners) I don't know.

For sure all Playtech licenses are not owed by Playtech and I find it hard to believe but everything is possible. I for sure never heard about it and if it is true it's a well kept "secret".

Anyway it would not change anything with regards to this thread.

 

[Lunkan]

Josh, since I see you have replied to this thread after I posted here and sent you a pm, may I ask why my pm has not yet been answered?

 

[bash_2357]

Hi Josh...

Still not been credited yet? You said an hour or so about 3 hours ago? Also presumably the bonus of 100 will get returned? So i can meet the wagering requirements.

I am willing to accpet this resolution even though many above feel that i should get the money back straight into my neteller account.

Thanks