Sticky bonus leads to forfeiture of real money balance

[Caravaggio]

I have received a deposit bonus which I no longer want because as long as it's active I am only allowed to play a crappy selection of slots games. My balance consists of real money and bonus money, and so far I have only played for real money as that balance is used first. Customer service says that if I choose to forfeit the bonus, or wait 30 days till when the bonus expires, my bonus and real money balance is forfeited. The online casino in question has a

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license and is based there.

I cannot imagine this practice being legal, no matter what the terms of service say.

I would appreciate it if someone could refer me to the (legal) arguments I can use in order to keep and be able to withdraw my real money balance.

 

[mulven]

I would appreciate it if someone could refer me to the (legal) arguments I can use in order to keep and be able to withdraw my real money balance.

Could you clarify the casino so I can figure out the bonus structure? Not sure if you mean sticky as "cashable" or sticky as "bonus can never be withdrawn".

Unfortunately due to having played with your money, your hands are usually tied here, if you come to live chat before touching anything to ask for it to be removed you might have a different outcome. It is very much legal and quite standard if this is a cashable bonus. The fact it shows split balances could mean nothing but could also mean the bonus structure is actually mixed wagering where an early withdrawal should be possible.

White Hat Gaming sites, for example, are "Cashable" and whilst showing separate balances for cash and bonus, nothing can be withdrawn until wagering is completed. If you spend a single penny after depositing with a bonus nothing can be done but if you ask them to remove the bonus before touching anything they will do so, might be the same case here.

 

[Caravaggio]

Could you clarify the casino so I can figure out the bonus structure? Not sure if you mean sticky as "cashable" or sticky as "bonus can never be withdrawn".

Unfortunately due to having played with your money, your hands are usually tied here, if you come to live chat before touching anything to ask for it to be removed you might have a different outcome. It is very much legal and quite standard if this is a cashable bonus. The fact it shows split balances could mean nothing but could also mean the bonus structure is actually mixed wagering where an early withdrawal should be possible.

White Hat Gaming sites, for example, are "Cashable" and whilst showing separate balances for cash and bonus, nothing can be withdrawn until wagering is completed. If you spend a single penny after depositing with a bonus nothing can be done but if you ask them to remove the bonus before touching anything they will do so, might be the same case here.

Thanks for your input.

"Sticky" as in cashable after the wagering requirement is satisfied.

I would not have thought it to be legal due to the tie-down effect that heavily favors the casino, in conjunction with the casino having nothing to lose by allowing the player to forfeit only the bonus as long as the bonus money has not been used for playing. I know that provisions in an agreement in the form of standardized terms of service which are heavily skewed in its issuer's (typically a business vis-à-vis a consumer) favor can be considered severed from the agreement - at least by the law where I'm from.

I suppose I have to contest this through their ambiguous and unclear T&C:s then:

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. For example, the statement "[a] bonus usually follows with the wagering requirements that have to be met in order to withdraw the funds[]" suggests that only the bonus is subject to a wagering requirement before it can be withdrawn, while "[r]eal money cannot be withdrawn until all bonuses are wagered[]" implies that only a one-time turnover of the bonus is necessary. Furthermore, the phrase "...the complete balance will be reset[]" is unclear, leaving room for interpretation of what "reset" means in this context. Feel free to comment on that

 

[mulven]

I would not have thought it to be legal due to the tie-down effect that heavily favors the casino, in conjunction with the casino having nothing to lose by allowing the player to forfeit only the bonus as long as the bonus money has not been used for playing.

Unfortunately as it is a cashable bonus despite the balances visually being separate your entire balance is bonus money. Some places keep the split throughout despite it being somewhat meaningless until withdraw (White Hat) and some sites have separate balances to start with but all wins go to bonus so eventually the cash becomes 0 and the bonus balance has everything.

2. By participating in promotions you agree to be bound by these Bonus Terms and Genie Jackpot’s general T&Cs
19. Real money cannot be withdrawn until all bonuses are wagered.
20. If bonus is cancelled before the full wagering requirement has been fulfilled, the complete balance will be reset
21. Wagering order is first real money, then bonus money.
25. Bets from bonus money and cash money count towards wagering requirement.

Terms 19, 20 and 25 reinforce that the entire balance is effectively treated like a bonus. Term 21 is rather boiler-plate and while it may have mislead you can also be applied to the meaningless split where your cash is indeed drained first. When cash and bonus money contribute to wagering that is usually a tell tale sign it is a cashable bonus. Terms 19 and 20 combine to make it so real money is stuck until fully wagered and will be void the bonus is cancelled, making it clear the balances whilst visually split are essentially treated the same.

There are websites, such as tonybet, where it is a parachute "cash counts" offer where cash contributes to wagering (and the max bet is probably applicable) but the ability to withdraw early is still present. Normal parachute and normal cashable are far more prevalent than this type of bonus though.

I've read a lot of terms and conditions over the years and these aren't that unclear if I'm honest. While it doesn't say "your cash is essentially bonus money now" it spells it out across multiple terms. I'm afraid theres no way out of this one.

I've accidentally deposited over an existing cash balance at White hat, span once and then realised the balance was higher than it should be. I was aware of how the site worked and the terms but I did try anyways and I tried everything I knew of and nothing worked. I'm afraid that you don't have a way out of this and that Term 2 was invoked when you placed a bet.

Something I found funny is bonus abuse is allowed for females (a admin error wouldn't allow that but it is a funny one).

11. If the bonuses are abused by a user, Geniejackpot.com has the right to use punitive measures towards him, namely: delete, decline all current bonuses and bonus winnings; to block the user's Account immediately. In that case, Geniejackpot.com disclaims any liability for the withdrawal or compensation of the funds that had been on the Account before it was blocked.

 

[brianmon]

Could you clarify the casino so I can figure out the bonus structure? Not sure if you mean sticky as "cashable" or sticky as "bonus can never be withdrawn".

Unfortunately due to having played with your money, your hands are usually tied here, if you come to live chat before touching anything to ask for it to be removed you might have a different outcome. It is very much legal and quite standard if this is a cashable bonus. The fact it shows split balances could mean nothing but could also mean the bonus structure is actually mixed wagering where an early withdrawal should be possible.

White Hat Gaming sites, for example, are "Cashable" and whilst showing separate balances for cash and bonus, nothing can be withdrawn until wagering is completed. If you spend a single penny after depositing with a bonus nothing can be done but if you ask them to remove the bonus before touching anything they will do so, might be the same case here.

Although I don't play with white hat gaming any more, since they closed all my accounts for taking too many bonuses (and winning from them)
I often withdrew the cash part of their bonuses (obviously, so long as I hadn't used any part of the bonus).

The UKGC changed the rules on tying cash balances to bonus balances quite a few years ago.
There's no bonus cancel button for players. But any cash part of the balance can be withdrawn at any time by contacting customer services.

That's one positive thing that the UKGC have done

 

[mulven]

Although I don't play with white hat gaming any more, since they closed all my accounts for taking too many bonuses (and winning from them)
I often withdrew the cash part of their bonuses (obviously, so long as I hadn't used any part of the bonus).

The UKGC changed the rules on tying cash balances to bonus balances quite a few years ago.
There's no bonus cancel button for players. But any cash part of the balance can be withdrawn at any time by contacting customer services.

That's one positive thing that the UKGC have done

Haha same story here with white hat.

I had forgot that they would be different in the UK whilst writing that and should have wrote that it was how white hat treated canadian market specifically although I'm guessing that most other territories don't get the parachute benefit. I had played white hat whilst in Canada so did not have the benefit of that UKGC enforcement. Before moving to canada for a bit, I think I was playing on UK casinos when that change came into play and it was really nice to see all the bonuses becoming parachute. I haven't really played that much since coming back because the UKGC have had an awful effect on value, experience and profitability in the years since the parachute change.

I do think it is worth mentioning that a decent, nice casino would probably make an exception to the same terms in your situation but Meta Bliss Group don't seem particularly nice. GenieJackpot appears to be new but they have another property called Blizz.io which has pretty poor reviews and complaints history.

EDIT: Just realised one of the bad reviews is from none other than slightly well known slot streamer called spintwix who apparently got shafted on his affiliate commission revenue. As casinomeister likes to say, a casino that doesn't pay its affiliates, doesn't pay its players.