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Pre-Determined or Luck?

Discussion in 'America the Beautiful' started by butterflyboogie, Mar 1, 2015.

    Mar 1, 2015
  1. butterflyboogie

    butterflyboogie Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Making Money
    Location:
    Casino Oblivion
    Ok Guys...I have a question and I am truly wanting an answer or opinion as best as you have. Although I have been gambling online for quite some time, I am not savy with how the online casino industry actually works. I have played at numerous places in the past, however since USA players are limited as to where they can play, I mainly stick with one or two. I won't call the casino's name, because I don't want to draw negative attention when I am really concerned. Ok...here is the question. When you play on an online casino (accredited here) are the games truly based on luck, or are the accounts set per player and the amount that the player wins is pre-determined?

    Let me explain why I ask this however first I want you guys to understand that I know there is no guarantee to win when you start playing. This would be true at land based or online; so I do not expect to win every time I play. My concern is that Since October 1st 2014 I have deposited over 30k into this one casino and my withdrawals (which include gifts, tournaments and cash-outs) have been around 18k. As far as getting something in the mail the amounts have been around 5k. I have asked for my rtp and as of yesterday it was 87.20. Honestly the last cash out that I had was back in December and it was around 1k....I am down about 13k (appx). For the last few months it does not matter what games I play...if I bet small, medium or bigger bets. It does not matter if I play low or high variance...the games simply will not hit for me.

    I actually asked a rep if there could be a glitch somewhere that could have done something to my account and was told no. I just want someone to explain to me how this online gaming process goes. Is it truly based on luck? I just know in the past when I played I might lose 3 or 4k but then I would hit and it would make it more even. Generally I would at least have a cash in once a month or close proximity to that. Now that is simply not happening. I want you to understand that it isn't like I get it up there where I can cash out and just play it off; that is not happening as well. So, if someone can explain to me how this works...is it based on each account or if it is lucky...I would be grateful.

    Thank you.
     
  2. Mar 1, 2015
  3. bigjohn

    bigjohn Meister Member MM PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Swimming Pool Serviceman
    Location:
    Northeast Coastal USA
    I think it's just a run of bad luck for you.

    Any place you play at that is at least semi-reputable is going to have their games running fair and square ie; totally random. That's the thing, it's not luck, it's random. Just like rolling a single die, odds are you will roll a 6 about every 6 rolls but it is certainly possible to roll hundreds of times and never roll a 6.

    Slot games are designed to make money for the operator of them, that's all they are designed to do.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Mar 1, 2015
  5. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    Hi Boogie,

    Sorry for your bad run so far this year, and hoping it will change soon. I happen to know where you are playing, and i also seen how you usually play. In my opinion your betsize is a bit too high, and it doesn't surprise me that you lost so much so quickly, considering the high variance nature of their slots. Note that this is not meant to criticize you in any way, but to me it seemed really only a matter of time before you were likely to hit a possibly huge downswing.

    I myself also played there a lot, and stopped when i got out of control: it's really hard sometimes to grasp how lucky you actually were in the past, and recognizing that the current level of play isn't satisfying or fun, and then not chasing the "good old stroke of luck".

    But it would be best to either take a break, or visit other places for a while. I saw Bigjohn post quite recently, that he was paid in the same day in some U.S. facing Casino, with games you have all been missing since the UIGEA. Maybe it's a good time to start there?
    See if it makes a difference.

    I also strongly advise you to drop the betsize.
    I know it can be painful to lower your comfort zone, and even more when you just did that (from say 1,- average to 0.20 average) and immediately hit a 1000x bet, but over the long run it will extend your play. Also note that you can hit insane amounts on various software for as little as 10 cent per spin:)

    It's all about having fun, whilst chasing a big win in the back of your head, you best make sure you are entertained in the process, which means mixing it up, with various Casino's and software, and adjusting your budget to make it last as long as possible.

    On to your real question. I do not believe for one second it is rigged, or that the RTP were tied to single accounts.
    If however it were so, then i would find it more likely on Proprietary software, then on software from huge providers that have their games spread all over the net..

    Hope this helps and wish you good luck, very soon!:)
     
    3 people like this.
  6. Mar 1, 2015
  7. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Well that narrows it down a LOT! :cool:
    You should see my deposit & withdrawal history there - very scary:
    Last withdrawal was September 2013. Since then I have made 17 deposits ($200 or more) and had 23 bonuses and/or comp points. :eek2:
    It is VERY hard to win and make a cash-out there. (I would always make a cash-out if I got to 3 or 4 x my deposit).

    Definitely time to try a different brand of software - there are at least half a dozen alternatives for USA players.

    KK
     
    3 people like this.
  8. Mar 1, 2015
  9. Jono777

    Jono777 mmawardeeIV CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    I believe that luck has a part to play in it.

    What casino you deposited at that day, how much, whether you took a bonus, which slot you 'started' on etc etc etc.

    I have had a terrible run lately, awful in fact but I still will not invest in these conspiracy theorys as I think that the 'decent' casinos are too closely monitored for anything untoward to be going on.

    As for the rogue outfits etc, I always steer well clear, your luck will change for the better,, I find taking a break for a couple of weeks can make an amazing difference (well sometimes anyway lol)
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Mar 1, 2015
  11. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    Very, very few in the USA have access to regulated/legal online gambling. Only in certain states. BB lives in the southern USA (as do I) and I doubt we'll have legalized/regulated online gaming in my lifetime.

    Despite KK's statement that there are many softwares for us to play, there is little variety in the accredited section here, and none are the 'big' or what I call real software - like IGT or WMS, etc. I'm not saying these other software makers or casinos are rigged. They all pretty much pay out (in the end) something like 95% on slots, which is better than most USA land based casinos - but without any of the B&M perks of course.

    Butterflyboogie if you're playing where I suspect, then your experience is not unique. If you continue as you are, you may one day get a monster hit... but then again you may never. If you continue to play online, my suggestion is to make smaller deposits less often, and lower your bets. If you're truly disgusted with playing online... take a break for a while.
     
    2 people like this.
  12. Mar 1, 2015
  13. LHofsdal

    LHofsdal Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    NY
    I to know where she has been playing. Whether it is luck or not I have no idea. So many players have their own take on this place, some say it is fixed, others think it is someone manually changing their RTP etc. etc. I am in the same boat you are Butterfly. Since my cashout in October, haven't hit squat. Deposit after deposit, and nothing to show for it.

    My husband seems to think if you come in and post something negative about the place you are put on the black list. My reply...."Are you F'n serious?" I will admit he is serious. As of today, my play at this casino will be a lot less. I have come to the conclusion that my pockets will be lined with my money instead of someone else. It is great to see the winning screen shots here, but I have noticed that they are few and far between anymore.

    @incrediblestuff-I really don't think bet size matters. I have bet the minimum and I have bet high. On both occasions it took me over 300 spins to hit a feature and then I was paid less then 10X my bet size. 99% of the time more than half of the free spins were dead spins. I once got 60 spins on a game and only 17 paid out something and when they did pay out it was for 3 of the lowest symbols. For 60 spins at 1.75 I won less then 105 dollars. I won the most when I got the 3 scatters during those free spins.

    Out of all honesty, I think you have to be playing the right game at the right time. The trick is finding that right game. Which I admit, I suck at that part lol.

    I really do hope your luck turns around Butterfly, and taking a break does seem like a good idea. Because your frustration will only build higher and higher with every losing deposit, so don't put yourself through that. Find some other places to play or something else to do. You don't need the stress and frustration, it will only bring you down.

    All the best.
    LH
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Mar 1, 2015
  15. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    Hi LH,

    Don't get me wrong, the return to player indeed should have nothing to do with betsize, i was merely saying that the streaks without good hits can be so long, that it may be wise to extend the average playtime by betting much lower then (she) normally (does)
    That was also based on what i have seen in the past, as i have not really been in chat for ages, i have no clue if Boogie has already dropped to minimum bet:)
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Mar 1, 2015
  17. MaryJean

    MaryJean Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Rancher
    Location:
    Northern California
    I thought I would chime in here with a situation that I have been noticing during the past years of following this forum.

    I have noticed that we all seem to be generally losing and winning in the same approximate intervals. It is as if the casinos get together and decide what the RTP percent will be during a given time.

    I have noticed also, that given games will play better or worse on various casinos at the same interval.

    For instance, the new games Wild Wizards, 3 Stooges..., Megasaur..etc all played quite well when they first came out, but now they seem to be totally blank, at the same time.

    As an example, I played Wild Wizards at first and got lots of Wizards showing but now when I play it I hardly see a Wizard.....on any of the Casinos where I play. 3 Stooges and Megasaur are doing the same. Even the Video Poker has a scant number of wild deuces in the wild card games, at all of the casinos at the same time.

    The other thing that happens, according to many peoples comments is that if you take a bonus, and if you get a sizable win, it will usually be at the first of your play so that you have used up all or most of the credits before you make the playthrough quota.

    An example of this for me recently is that I actually got a Random Jackpot of a little over $2000.00, three spins after I started to play. I just barely kept a little of it to cash out.
    Almost spoiled the fun of getting an actual Jackpot.

    My point is that this seems to be a scheduled event over the breadth of the industry, rather than simply random.

    Of course it could be my imagination, but notice as you read the forum, how many people are saying they haven't won since..........during the same time periods.

    Have a good day and Win Big!
    MaryJean
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Mar 1, 2015
  19. cpdnd31

    cpdnd31 Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    where the taxes are the highest
    OK I am in the same boat. It does not matter what I do - I will build and get to lets say 300 and then right to zero. Almost like I hit a brick wall and kaboom. I have been frustrated more then ever. Now I am gonna call the spade out. What is bothering people and believe me I know this because I get pms at said casino as well as here asking about it. When people are winning huge amounts over and over and over again. I got up to 1000 and I jumped my bets I lost it all in less then 20 min. I was trying to hit the same hits that others are hitting. When you see someone win close to 20 grand off of 20.00 you sit there and say why the fukkkkk cant I? It bothers me it bothers everyone -- call it luck call it what you want but those big hits are making regular depositors who deposit and deposit and deposit and play the same way the other people play get jumpy and very upset.

    I have started to play at others casinos. The first week I made a profit of 4 grand -last week 1 grand the difference amazes me. I love the casino we are all talking about but I also would love to hit like others as well. In the back of my mind I am saying this does not make sense and then the the other part of me says OK Your luck just sucks. I have tried it all and I feel your pain.

    One casino I was playing at I hit two TWO random jackpots (the smaller ones) in one day. I was like WTH I can't hit a jackpot to save my life at said casino.

    Is it gamblers frustration, is something funny going on -Everyone seems to question everything when we see people hitting over and over and over again. What bothers me more, are these hits. Some of them are hits that are the hardest to get and you see someone get them 3 times in the matter of minutes. Don't get me wrong I love the casino and I love seeing people win but I also love my money and something needs to give soon.

    Frustrated and I just don't know how to answer people any more.
     
    5 people like this.
  20. Mar 1, 2015
  21. LHofsdal

    LHofsdal Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    NY
    Hey Incredible-

    I know what you meant, I really do. I was just trying to make the point that sometimes it doesn't matter no matter what you do.

    At CPDND31-You have noticed something my husband noticed a while ago. I think he even wrote about it once on their site. It is amazing to see the hits these players can get, when I have over 50 thousand spins on the same game (over the past year)and never hit anything close to that. One of those magnificent wins was when I was actually playing the same game at the same time. Hence my reasoning as to playing the right game at the right time. Now my husband has a totally different take, his take is Feed the bigger fish(depositors) and don't sweat the small guppies. I admit, sometimes I see his take, because after a while you get tired of seeing the same names with those magnificent hits. But again, what the hell do I know right lol.

    LH
     
    2 people like this.
  22. Mar 1, 2015
  23. butterflyboogie

    butterflyboogie Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Making Money
    Location:
    Casino Oblivion
    Thank you

    I just want to thank everyone for their input and their candor. No one mentioned the name of the casino and I am so glad. This was not to draw attention, but simply to get the opinions of others. There is no way that I am saying that any casino is rigged; I just merely wanted to understand how it truly works. The being at the right game at the right time may be the true answer; I really don't know. I have been playing the same game for instance when others are hitting left and right. Is it the same as being in a land based casino where you have a row of the same games and all around you others are hitting yet you can't hit anything? If that is the case, then I do understand. I am going to try some other places just to mix it up and will continue to play at the casino that I am talking about...just perhaps take the advice of others and just not deposit as much and perhaps play at different times with different amounts (e.g. bet size). Thank you all again.
     
    3 people like this.
  24. Mar 1, 2015
  25. weesie

    weesie Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Old bag lady with a laptop
    I seem to be in the same boat there, these days.

    No matter what bet size, no matter which slot or game............ deposit goes straight to 0

    I also know the feeling watching someone hit BIG again and again................ I'm playing the same game and zilch, nada.... zip. But, then too I am not betting max..... not even close.

    Then to top that off..... see this same person...... go off in a huff, "got to take a break from here, be back in a few days, weeks, who knows" is the quote........... I about "shat" myself when I saw that!

    I am trying to get a measly few hundred, and they get bent when their 3K to 9K hits quit for even a few days.

    Someone explain it to me please....... And dunover (if you read this)...... I need a nice new hat!
     
  26. Mar 2, 2015
  27. nisosbar

    nisosbar Ueber Meister PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    Right here
    Some of my biggest runs have been on ND chips. One would think that if it were pre-determined, you'd not run all that well on ND chips. Yet, it's happened to me, more than once.

    And most of the time when I make a straight deposit, I hit nothing - probably 9 times out of 10. Even on that 10th deposit, my wins are good, but modest. Maybe on my 10th 10th deposit (or one in 100 deposits), I'll get a nice 500x hit or so.

    But it really varies. I've hit nicely through several deposits, and then it's ice cold for months. There's no pattern, in my opinion. It really is just luck.
     
  28. Mar 2, 2015
  29. Redbush54

    Redbush54 Experienced Member PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    igaming
    Location:
    At the end of the rainbow
    Why didn't you? You have no ideal how much was deposited, how much was lost etc. I've seen numerous ppl complain and that's ok for all you chatters at this so called un-named casino even tho we all know who it is.

    What I don't understand is if ppl are unhappy why not leave? why not take a break? I did take a break and guess what.....I'm still losing but that's gambling. Many times I have been playing the same game at the same time and went straight to zero. I guess we won't mention the 5+ years I played before I ever had a w/d.

    And to the original poster----what do you call brokering? I've seen you do plenty of it since Dec. Also if you didn't want the casino named shouldn't have put it out in the open.

    My only comment.
     
  30. Mar 2, 2015
  31. butterflyboogie

    butterflyboogie Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Making Money
    Location:
    Casino Oblivion
    For real Redbush?

    First of all Redbush...I didn't name any casino. Second of all I was not complaining, I was asking a question, which I have that right. Third, in the figures I was giving I DID include brokering; however in your words...no one knows how much someone puts in. I didn't figure my losses on years...or even a year....I was going by what had happened since October. I didn't single any place or person out; that is to everyone's own assumption. Don't get what your problem is, don't really care either.
     
  32. Mar 2, 2015
  33. LHofsdal

    LHofsdal Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    NY
    Whoa!!! What is all this about? I am not sure why you sound so hostile here but I really don't think it was necessary here. No one mentioned any names of players or the casino. Nothing in any of these post was meant towards any one person personally. If it was names would have been mentioned. NOT 1 name was mentioned.

    Butterfly has the right to ask questions, she was only trying to understand how online gaming actually works. She was NOT here to point the finger at anyone person. She asked in general terms, not specific terms. Yes, Redbush, we have seen your spectacular wins, you have posted them on here. Many people have said WTG on your wins. But with all due respect, how did anyone one know who Butterfly was talking about? You make is sound like she was talking about you when in all reality, I don't think she was. I don't think she was talking about anyone in particular just her play and her emotions. This isn't the first time I have seen you come into a discussion with your guns out ready to fire, I think you should not be so quick to point your finger at yourself, when no one else has. This thread isn't about you, your wins or losses, it is about someone trying to get some answers and have a better understanding.

    LH
     
    3 people like this.
  34. Mar 2, 2015
  35. Redbush54

    Redbush54 Experienced Member PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    igaming
    Location:
    At the end of the rainbow
    If you will notice I did not quote boogie and I knew exactly who weezie was talking about. You can refer to post #15 to see exactly who I quoted. So rather than READ who I was quoting, the response was directed at me from you both for mentioning boogie, which never happened until the end of my post, which just so happened to be about brokering which imo is the same as a w/d.

    Good luck to you both. No need for any other responses from me.
     
  36. Mar 2, 2015
  37. goatwack

    goatwack Denny, two is great, but three is a crowd CAG

    Occupation:
    Stuntman
    Location:
    Londonia
    Well I know for a fact that when winning on any given slot that it is down to my skill, foresight and genius bankroll management & when I lose the games are rigged, cheating and/ or controlled by whichever casino has had it in for me on that particular day! *






    * this is a lie
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Mar 2, 2015
  39. blonde

    blonde Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Writer/Freelancer, 7 years and going strong.
    Location:
    London, Aussie...hell who knows
    In redbush's defense here. She didn't mention names either did weesie, she just quoted a post from above. How I see it is this; she logs in and sees a thread about a certain casino and sees her chat comments being quoted and posted here, she has a right to defend herself or comment, does she not?

    I will also say this. I am in the same boat as the OP, I wouldn't say quite as much as her, but still the same situation with poor game play. It does suck, and it frustrates you to say the least when you see others win, win and keep on winning. You keep in the back of your head that there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel and maybe one day soon that light will get here. As for me, I slowed down on my deposits and will continue to do so until I see my game play is getting better. I don't play to cashout every time I deposit, although that would be the dream wouldnt it? I play because I love to spin the reels and it relaxes me to be able to play for a bit. As of late that isnt the case. You deposit $100 or so and it is gone in 2-5 minutes tops. When you are going through a bad playing session it does throw all sorts of "bad" things in your head when all you are trying to do is get answers.
     
    1 person likes this.

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