PR: Poker Bots Consistently Win Online Poker Games by Cheating

[The Dude]

Poker Bots Consistently Win Online Poker Games by Cheating

CasinoRobots.com today announced Poker Robot Collusion Edition for Microsoft Windows, an intelligent software robot capable of consistently winning games of Texas Hold'Em Poker at popular online Poker Rooms. Poker Robot Collusion Edition can automatically and simultaneously play in up to nine of the ten seats available per game, for real money, using a strategy advocated by a nine-time World Champion of Poker. No knowledge or experience of Poker is required.

Peterborough, Cambridgeshire (PRWEB) February 28 2005 -- CasinoRobots.com today announced Poker Robot Collusion Edition for Microsoft Windows, an intelligent software robot capable of consistently winning games of Texas Hold'Em Poker at popular online Poker Rooms. Poker Robot Collusion Edition is able to automatically and simultaneously play in up to nine of the ten seats available per game, for real money, using a strategy advocated by a nine-time World Champion of Poker. This combination of statistically sound strategy and awareness of nine of the ten hands in play inevitably results in consistent wins for the robot Poker players. No knowledge or experience of Poker is required. However, if the user wishes to play in multiple seats themselves they can manually override the robot player decisions with the click of a mouse button. Users can also alter the rank of hands played, the types of table to be selected and the duration of play. The progress of each game session is displayed and updated in real-time. Poker Robot Collusion Edition also draws upon the analytical capabilities of Poker Trainer, our comprehensive Texas Hold'Em Poker odds calculator and opponent analysis tool.

An estimated US$180 million is wagered at online Poker tables every day. Players appear to be unaware that it is possible to cheat at online Poker and many may already be losing their money to collusion and/or robot Poker players. Our software demonstrates that online Poker Rooms are unable to prevent collusion. Whilst it may on occasion be suspected, it remains impossible to prove that collusion has occurred.

Availability and Pricing
Poker Robot Collusion Edition is available in two-player and nine-player versions. Poker Trainer is available immediately. Single user licences can be purchased including unlimited technical support and free program updates. Pricing is available at

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About CasinoRobots.com
CasinoRobots.com develops intelligent software agents capable of playing Blackjack, Poker and Roulette at popular online Poker Rooms and Casinos.

For additional information please visit

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[MeMeMeMeMe]

Casinomeister, surely you are not condoning poker robots?

 

[eek]

I wonder if its mere coincidence that the only place the BJ robot is configured for is CON.

Collusion in poker is an old problem, its not like you can get away with nine ip conns coming from the same area on a ten player table.

 

[The Dude]

Casinomeister, surely you are not condoning poker robots?

It's a press release.

 

[MeMeMeMeMe]

I'm not going to make a big deal out of this and I promise this will be my last post on this subject.

This is your site and I respect your right to post whatever you like on it. It just seems to me that since you have chosen to publish this company's press release then that could be interpreted as you condoning the use of their products.

 

[The Dude]

I'm not going to make a big deal out of this and I promise this will be my last post on this subject.

This is your site and I respect your right to post whatever you like on it. It just seems to me that since you have chosen to publish this company's press release then that could be interpreted as you condoning the use of their products.

No, it's news. It's a Press Release about an issue that affects this industry - primarily poker - that's why it's in the poker section

I'm not condoning robots, or cheating players, or whatever; I'm presenting information and directing you to the source.

 

[m249a]

"If I could design a computer program to play my money online, this is the way I would program it."

Phil Hellmuth Jr., seven-time winner of the World Series of Poker.


I didn't know anybody won the WSOP 7 times....did I miss something?

 

[Mugwump]

Actually he's won 9 times, according to his website.

Although the most widely known event of the WSOP is the no-limit hold 'em championship event, there are also several other events held at binions during the same month that are also included in the WSOP. Phil has 'only' won the championship event once.

See this page for this years events:

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However, since casinorobots has gotten this relatively simple piece of information wrong, perhaps they made up the quote. If so, lets hope that he sues their pants off.

 

[m249a]

Actually he's won 9 times, according to his website.

Although the most widely known event of the WSOP is the no-limit hold 'em championship event, there are also several other events held at binions during the same month that are also included in the WSOP. Phil has 'only' won the championship event once.

See this page for this years events:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

However, since casinorobots has gotten this relatively simple piece of information wrong, perhaps they made up the quote. If so, lets hope that he sues their pants off.

Ahhhh....yes yes yes.....I forgot about all the other events. Good call mugwump. And you are right, a glance at their site would lead someone to beleive that he was intrical in the creation of this so-called bot.

I am seriously considering purchasing it to see if it works.

Another funny quote on their site was the one asking about affiliate programs. Now as long as the poker room pays a flat rate for banner space, well then I guess it would be ok to advertise for both. But for people like me that rely on that elusive 30% of losses......well affiliated with something like that (assuming of course that it works) might not be such a good idea. I can see the balance sheet now...........I would end up owing the aff program money lol.

 

[swampwitch]

Mark, I will really have to do something drastic to you if you even THINK about joining that affiliate program and putting banners for it you-know-where.
If poker sites don't already have a no robot rule, they will implement one now. Then there will bunches of little inbred morons posting here and elsewhere about how they got cheated out of their winnings after the poker sites figure out how to spot the robot.

 

[bpb]

Another funny quote on their site was the one asking about affiliate programs. Now as long as the poker room pays a flat rate for banner space, well then I guess it would be ok to advertise for both. But for people like me that rely on that elusive 30% of losses......well affiliated with something like that (assuming of course that it works) might not be such a good idea. I can see the balance sheet now...........I would end up owing the aff program money lol.

As a poker affilliate, you get paid a portion of the rake your players generate. Whether your player wins or loses is immaterial ... as the poker room is making its money either way. This is drastically different from online casino affililate programs.

Just as a public service announcement ... don't use poker bots. All the major reputable online sites are on the lookout for them, and will confiscate your bankroll if they determine you've been using them. It's against the T&C. On a personal note ... I consider anyone who uses a poker bot on a site which restricts them to be a real piece of garbage.

 

[swampwitch]

On a personal note ... I consider anyone who uses a poker bot on a site which restricts them to be a real piece of garbage.

I'll second that, and add this...using a 'bot even on a site without a rule against it makes one a talentless ass.

 

[Mugwump]

Actually, every site I've ever visited has had a no-bot rule. All in all, this isn't as big a problem as you'd think. If someone wants to play me with a bot, I say let 'em, most computerized opponents play very tight, and usually either too passively, or too aggressively. At the lower limits, using a bot is lame, and unlikely to make you much money after the rake, and at the higher limits, I'm pretty sure it will get you killed (monetarily, not literally).

My complaint against the site is that it condones collusion and even offers strategies and services that can get someone started down this path. As far as I'm concerned, for this alone, everyone in the company should be dragged out to the street and shot.

But even so, most sites use reasonably sophisticated anti-collusion routines in their software to detect cheats. (Check out Fuzzy's imperial palace thread to see an example of this at work). I'm pretty sure we won't see any quotes on casinorobot's site from users who set up 9 accounts, deposited $500 in each, then got their deposits confiscated when the casino busted them. Its gonna happen though, and I feel no sympathy whatsoever for these slobs. So they lost $4500, they got off cheap...I know people that'd permanently ruin your kneecaps for pulling these stunts.

And as far as the robots for the other casino games are concerned, blackjack, roulette, etc. I can't imagine a reason why casinos wouldn't be bashing down casinorobot's doors to enable their platform on the software. I shudder to think about how much money microgaming makes off of their autoplay features, seems to me that this would be the same thing.

 

[jetset]

Mugwump's comments, particularly in his first paragraph are valid i.m.o. and have been confirmed by expert views in news articles I have seen recently. Unfortunately that probably won't help the less skilled player.

And I'm with him 100 percent on this: "My complaint against the site is that it condones collusion and even offers strategies and services that can get someone started down this path. As far as I'm concerned, for this alone, everyone in the company should be dragged out to the street and shot."

This is a sad situation in a player sense and from an industry perspective. The detractors of online gaming in general and Internet poker in particular will lap this questionable approach up - I can only imagine what some of the anti-gambling media will do with it.

 

[pokeraddict]

IMO bots are not as big of an issue as some want to make them. People over and over again have had their accounts closed, names banned, and funds confiscated for this. Some slip through the cracks of course but their time will come. Besides how can a bot read players habits, know who the fish are, play in a wild game or play shorthanded? It cant! No way a computer program can adjust to any factor outside a full average type game.

 

[m249a]

Besides how can a bot read players habits, know who the fish are, play in a wild game or play shorthanded? It cant! No way a computer program can adjust to any factor outside a full average type game.

The cpu in Star trek can..... . .

 

[nafanny29]

IMO bots are not as big of an issue as some want to make them. People over and over again have had their accounts closed, names banned, and funds confiscated for this. Some slip through the cracks of course but their time will come. Besides how can a bot read players habits, know who the fish are, play in a wild game or play shorthanded? It cant! No way a computer program can adjust to any factor outside a full average type game.

Well said pokeraddict, bots are no match for any half decent poker player IMO. Maybe on a loose, low limit game they will win, but on a $10-$20 or higher table they will get stuffed every time. (thats why Beldar sticks to $1-$2 )

 

[oldman]

Poker Academy Donates $13,000 of Texas Hold'em Software to Lehigh University

BETHLEHEM, Pennsylvania -- (PRESS RELEASE) -- Poker Academy, a leading software developer of poker products, has donated $13,000 in software to Lehigh University for students in computer science and engineering to use in artificial intelligence (AI) research projects.

Hector Munoz-Avila, assistant professor of computer science and engineering, said the donated software will be used in "Artificial Intelligence: Game Programming," a course offered last fall for the first time that will be taught again next fall.

The goal of the students using the donated software in the new class, which Munoz-Avila teaches, will be to make better, more challenging computer games that adapt to a player's behavior, style and level of skill.

"Only a few games currently employ adaptive artificial intelligence, which is also called machine learning," said Munoz-Avila, who has a grant from the Naval Research Laboratory to study game programming. "Most are 'hard-coded' to operate at a fixed level or levels.

"Adaptive AI is code that allows computer software to adapt over time to a players' skill levels and even to improvements they make," said Munoz-Avila. "A chess game equipped with adaptive AI will 'dumb down' in a few moves against an inexperienced player, but play tougher against a grandmaster."

"We are pleased to be part of this on-going research and development initiative of artificial gaming intelligence," said Kurt Lange, president of Poker Academy. "The AI gaming platform for our poker product, which was developed over more than 10 years, has computer opponents that actually think like humans. Since the game gets better as the player improves, the game is always challenging and thus a very effective learning tool. We look forward to seeing what the CSE students come up with."

The students in Munoz-Avila's game-programming class study and develop algorithms, which are methods of encoding programs that tell computers how to solve problems. The students will use their algorithms to study the software robots, or bots, that are created to replace human beings in poker, hearts and other online games.

Other goals of the students will be to determine how "smart" computers can be made and whether AI gives unfair advantages to the bots or machines against which humans play computer games.

Munoz-Avila said that Jarret Raim, a graduate student in computer science, found the Poker Academy online, looked at its API (application program interface, a way in which programs communicate), and found it could "talk" to other programs, making it a good fit for the Lehigh game programming course.

"Our interest is that this game has a very nice API that we can interface with our machine learning programs," said Munoz-Avila.

About Poker Academy

Poker Academy is a leading software developer of poker products. The company develops the world's most advanced Texas Hold'em poker learning tool, Poker Academy Pro, utilizing world renowned artificial intelligence developed over 10 years, designed to help users learn, adapt and improve their poker skills. Poker Academy Pro includes No Limit, Limit and Tournament play along with many feature-rich components. Poker Academy is headquartered in Edmonton, Alberta, and has U.S. office in Minnetonka, MN.

About Lehigh University

Lehigh University, a nationally ranked teaching and research institution, offers distinctive interdisciplinary and hands-on programs, at the undergraduate and graduate levels, in colleges of arts and sciences, business and economics, education, and engineering and applied science.

So it's only the very beginning... get ready for the World Online Poker Bot Tour in the nearest future..!

 

[wolla]

Is Beldar really a bot? I have seen him/it often at Interpoker and everyone says he's a bot!?

 

[nafanny29]

He is either a bot or the best customer crypto has.
He is playing almost every time im on crypto, whether its evening or 6am! PS he folds to a re-raise unless he has the stone cold nuts

 

[winbig]

He is either a bot or the best customer crypto has.
He is playing almost every time im on crypto, whether its evening or 6am! PS he folds to a re-raise unless he has the stone cold nuts

Every time? If so, that definately sounds like a bot. A human player would definately mix it up just to keep players on their toes. ie: re-re-raise, call (even with the nuts), etc. On the other hand, maybe their luck outweighs their skill? I don't know who you're talking about specifically, so I can only guess on that one.

 

[wolla]

He is either a bot or the best customer crypto has.
He is playing almost every time im on crypto, whether its evening or 6am! PS he folds to a re-raise unless he has the stone cold nuts

Only on the river or on the flop and turn as well?

 

[abaxas]

I bite

Since I'm currently writing a poker bot here are my thoughts........

1) Variable play is an option and easy to program
2) Bots can easily be programmed to go 'on tilt' when required
3) Changing to table metrics is also easy for low stake games by simple preflop adjustments
4) Playing against playing styles is important but not at lower stakes the maths and other players crapness sorts that out.
5) I doubt it'll ever make me money as it's just not good enough to be worth using
6) Dont worry about bots, peoples greed at using them will be their downfall

 

[winbig]

Since I'm currently writing a poker bot here are my thoughts........

1) Variable play is an option and easy to program
2) Bots can easily be programmed to go 'on tilt' when required
3) Changing to table metrics is also easy for low stake games by simple preflop adjustments
4) Playing against playing styles is important but not at lower stakes the maths and other players crapness sorts that out.
5) I doubt it'll ever make me money as it's just not good enough to be worth using
6) Dont worry about bots, peoples greed at using them will be their downfall

Shall we kill you now or later?

 

[winbig]

So much for privacy.

Found this at Empirepoker. So much for privacy. They could take screenshots of your desktop at any time while you're playing and justify it as "thinking" you were cheating.

Since the latter is in their privacy policy it's totally legal.

T&C:

6. Artificial Intelligence.
We are committed to detecting and preventing software programs which are designed to enable artificial intelligence (non-human) to play on our site. Such programs are often designed to send information about cards, dice or players to an external program. Information sent to an outside program is not permitted. The company will take measures to prevent and detect the use of such programs using methods including but not limited to screen scraping or reading the list of currently running programs on a player's computer.



Privacy policy:

7. Consent to Use of Anti-Cheating Software
Our software package used to access and use the Service contains certain features designed to detect use of automated programs that enable artificial (non-human) intelligence to play on our site. Use of such "bot" software programs violates our Terms and Conditions of Use, and is detrimental to other players. By installing our software and using the Service, you consent to our software performing the functions described in this section. Our software may perform any or all of the following functions in order to detect the use of illicit automated programs and ensure that we maintain a "cheat free" environment for all users: (1) scan your list of active software applications while you are using the Service, (2) scan your list of active processes while you are using the service, (3) scan the files in your EmpirePoker.com-related program folders to ensure that only "non-hacked" versions of our software are being used. If any of the foregoing processes reveals a suspect application or process, our software may (1) scan the files associated with the suspect application or process and compile a composite mesh (i.e. a profile that characterizes the files associated with the application or process) to be matched against profiles for known illicit automated programs, and (2) capture a screenshot of your desktop, and transmit these to EmpirePoker.com for review. Our software will not perform any random search of large portions of your hard drive or other files, and will not transmit any information to us or to any third party other than the information necessary to identify use of illicit automated program as described above. Our software will not alter any files or information on your computer, and will not interfere with the operation of any of your applications. You may terminate use of our software at any time by uninstalling the EmpirePoker.com software package.

 

[nafanny29]

Wow!! that is frightening winbig!!!

Even if its in the T&Cs I cant believe its legal. What about privacy invasion

I would feel very uneasy knowing that my entire pc could be scanned by someone. It would be like leaving it on and letting a stranger on it for an hour. Scary stuff

 

[baldidiot]

Yowser, I don't like that at all! Do any other sites have similar terms?

 

[PokingStars]

Something needs to be done about this IMO. I really don't know what but this collusion and botting problem is getting really really annoying.

 

[nisosbar]

While computer science is still being developed, better and better bots will appear, it has happened with chess , and is just a question of time when bots almost impossible to beat will appear, so poker online rooms in fact have to do something about it.

We've sort of been at that point for years now, and the poker rooms don't care - bots generate rake, and most of the fish are no more the wiser.

Personally, I stopped playing online poker years ago when it became clear to me that nearly every single table I was at was populated by bots.

 

[jetset]

It's an interesting topic - did you guys read the reports of the Laak and Esfandiari contest against Polaris, a bot developed by a Canadian university in Alberta?

There were a couple of contests if I recall correctly, with the bot AI getting progressively better.

I'm guessing that AI developments are watched closely by the anti-bot departments of major online poker sites.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Rather than fight the tide, maybe an operator should open a room specifically for bots to try their skills against other bots, or even human players who think they have got what it takes to beat a bot.

Given the rake model, the operator is not going to lose money to the bots directly, and players signing up will know exactly what they are letting themselves in for.

The contest to be VISIBLY the best poker bot may lure bot users away from other sites, and analysis of how the bots play on THIS site would help develop means to detect them elsewhere where they are not wanted.

 

[petro]

With the advancement of the computer "bots" or programs have ruined many games. Not only poker but chess as well. It is virtually impossible to detect if a player is using or not.

 

[jstrike]

Why fight the tide?? It doesn't make any sense. All things in their place: Give it a place to be, and regulate it.

I'm actually doing this with my new site. When I open up, there will be house bots, which are on special tables and tournaments only (always marked and obvious that they're bots), where players will be invited to use their own bots or to test their own skills against our machines. Any collusive bots will be excluded under the same anti-collusion rules that apply to all players (and yes, they can be spotted).

My house bots are based on an artificial intelligence I wrote, which uses real players' personalities as basis for their decisions. I've got two house bots so far that are based on the two best players in our beta test.

One of my more outside-the-box ideas for the site is that once we're open, we'll have a contest for the best live poker player each week, and base a bot on his or her personality, rewarding them with a % of that bot's winnings ongoing =)

 

[rockycatt]

for any one that doubts that there out there

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and if any mod wants to erase the link please do its just for info purpose's

 

[3mptyseat]

Why fight the tide?? It doesn't make any sense. All things in their place: Give it a place to be, and regulate it.

I'm actually doing this with my new site. When I open up, there will be house bots, which are on special tables and tournaments only (always marked and obvious that they're bots), where players will be invited to use their own bots or to test their own skills against our machines. Any collusive bots will be excluded under the same anti-collusion rules that apply to all players (and yes, they can be spotted).

My house bots are based on an artificial intelligence I wrote, which uses real players' personalities as basis for their decisions. I've got two house bots so far that are based on the two best players in our beta test.

One of my more outside-the-box ideas for the site is that once we're open, we'll have a contest for the best live poker player each week, and base a bot on his or her personality, rewarding them with a % of that bot's winnings ongoing =)

When you said, 'my new site' does that imply an old site? If so which site was it?

 

[maxd]

... if any mod wants to erase the link please do its just for info purpose's

I don't see a problem with it, fwiw.

 

[vinylweatherman]

for any one that doubts that there out there

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and if any mod wants to erase the link please do its just for info purpose's

Works on AP and UB - probably the most deserving poker rooms for this to happen to

I bet they spot it quickly though, since they have extensive experience with cheating at poker


Chess bots have been around for YEARS, and the best can beat the grand masters. Worse, chess is a much slower game, and a player could run the bot on one PC, and manually make the moves on another using the online chess client. This WOULD be impossible to detect, since there is no way to tell a bot & grand master apart. Only if the user gets greedy, and tries to run duplicate avatars from the same PC/IP/email etc will he expose evidence that he is cheating.

Poker bots might be spreading because players feel "if you can't beat them, join them", so are getting hold of bots rather than play when they feel they are against other bots, and the poker rooms don't appear to be taking the issue seriously (they ARE for the most part, but they are being outwitted all the time by new developments in bot software).

An operator using their own house bots IS at risk of losing out to better ones, since they will consistently beat the house bots in the long term.
Collusion is also a risk, because all the time those doing it are working on better ways to make it less detectable.

 

[jstrike]

When you said, 'my new site' does that imply an old site? If so which site was it?

No... the site / software I'm launching in a couple months is my first venture. So this is all kind of a big experiment. I'm starting it real small so I don't think anyone's gonna take the time to write a bot for it early on, anyway. Botters would have to do some serious tweaking to make it work, and it probably wouldn't be worth their time.

Anyway, I'm gonna discourage their use on tables not marked for bots and/or make people label them as bots (at the risk of getting kicked out). If it's me, I don't mind playing a bot if I know I'm playing a bot. Some of 'em are pretty good, but I've found if you tighten up and don't get too clever, I mean don't underestimate what they're capable of, you can fool them just like anybody else.

 

[vinylweatherman]

No... the site / software I'm launching in a couple months is my first venture. So this is all kind of a big experiment. I'm starting it real small so I don't think anyone's gonna take the time to write a bot for it early on, anyway. Botters would have to do some serious tweaking to make it work, and it probably wouldn't be worth their time.

Anyway, I'm gonna discourage their use on tables not marked for bots and/or make people label them as bots (at the risk of getting kicked out). If it's me, I don't mind playing a bot if I know I'm playing a bot. Some of 'em are pretty good, but I've found if you tighten up and don't get too clever, I mean don't underestimate what they're capable of, you can fool them just like anybody else.

Don't bet on it.

Bot writers look to the future, and like to "crack" as many softwares as possible, so that their bot looks better than the rest, and thus attracts a higher price.

The "casino robot" on offer comes in at least 3 versions, and higher prices are charged for more softwares and games supported.

The "free" trial version seems to only work on Cassava.

If you start allowing bots on parts of your site, they will be written, but then could be used where they are NOT wanted.

You should consider how you will detect these "allowed" bots, even tell the programmers HOW to hook them into your software. If they follow these hooking instructions, you can then use this to detect when one of these bots is being hooked up, and make sure it is where it is allowed.

 

[jstrike]

For any who are interested, there's also a very intense discussion about bots

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, along with talk of new legislation that would make it a criminal offense to use them if UIGEA ends up being repealed.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Interesting.

It seems the proposed law is about establishing a fair game for all. The harsh penalties would be because it is the other players that are being "ripped off" by playing against a bot. This is in line with most consumer protection laws, which do NOT expect the average consumer to have the knowledge to make their own evaluations on such advanced matters.

Companies sneaking unfair terms into consumer contracts with a view to cheat their customers can ALSO suffer significant penalties. There are certain things that CANNOT be in the terms of a consumer contract, no matter HOW clear.

Companies also need legal protection against fraud, so penalties apply whoever is doing the defrauding.

As a CRIMINAL law, it would be "proof beyond reasonable doubt", which would NOT catch the vast majority of clever bot users, where poker sites have nothing more than statistical analysis of play, and ASSUME this means a bot was far more likely to be playing than a human.

It would be possible to develop a bot that cannot be PROVEN as being in use to the standards of criminal law, evenn though a CIVIL case might rule that a bot was in use, and damages payable.

It would be better for US regulated sites to use CIVIL law first, and only the criminal law when they have a SERIOUS case of very clever bot use and/or collusion.

In terms of detection, what is to stop the use of a real time advisor program on a DIFFERENT PC to that running the poker client. It would not show up in a running processes scan, and the human player would always have to make the plays suggested by the software on the other machine.

This could be further disguised were the player to have TWO broadband providers, on one they run the client, and on the other the cheat software. Even with cooperation from the tool developer, the IP addresses would not match, and it would be impossible to identify the player as the user of the prohibited tool (except by statistical analysis of play, which is not CRIMINAL level proof).

 

[jstrike]

It would be better for US regulated sites to use CIVIL law first, and only the criminal law when they have a SERIOUS case of very clever bot use and/or collusion.

In terms of detection, what is to stop the use of a real time advisor program on a DIFFERENT PC to that running the poker client. It would not show up in a running processes scan, and the human player would always have to make the plays suggested by the software on the other machine.

Exactly. That's why I think it's a ridiculous law.

My dad, whose knowledge of Chinese culture was pretty much limited to Chow Mein noodles and Moo Shoo Pork, used to like to say there was a Chinese saying about a paper tiger. That when you find out it's made of paper, you don't have to worry about it. So don't make threats your ass can't cash, basically, because if you do, no one's gonna take you seriously about anything else. As sad and dumb as it was for America to try and stamp out online poker, it looks like the gov't might be coming to its senses finally. And then they have to load up the bill with this kinda crap? Can't they just repeal a bad law, without making something else stupid and harmless into a felony at the same time?