Pokerstars, Absolutepoker, Ub and Fulltilt Seized By Doj

[Mousey]

Doesn't look like anyone will be getting paid anytime soon... whether US or not...

From the DOJ doc....

.....penalties and forfeiture from
the Poker Companies and the defendants. The District Court
issued an order restraining approximately 76 bank accounts in 14
countries containing the proceeds of the charged offenses.....

What a freaking mess....

Good luck to our poker players.

 

[Perc]

I'm just soooooooooooo happy that i don't live in the US.
Their government just seem to f**k up every bit of "freedom" that is left.
"Land of the free"... right...

/rant

I was thinking the same thing, but it doesn't matter if you live in the US or not, nobody in the world can visit the websites today.

Just because a website has a .com ending, it is under US jurisdiction? That's news to me.

Policing the world, once again.

 

[ksech]

I found this section of the article released by the AP interesting...

The indictment said the defendants turned to fraudulent methods to trick financial institutions into processing payments on their behalf after the law was passed.
It said they sometimes arranged for money from U.S. gamblers to be disguised as payments to hundreds of non-existent online merchants purporting to sell merchandise such as jewelry and golf balls.

Wonder if the DOJ starts to make inquiries to financial institutions for these kinds of international transactions (especially since some of the casinos have been disguising payouts as such)...


So, if I had money sitting in ANY casino or ewallet, I most assuredly would get it out of there now! JMO...

 

[LHofsdal]

Holy Crap!! This is just horrible. My god, look how public this is, but you still can't find anything out about EwalletXpress.

So much for the land of the free....I hope everyone who has money in those poker accounts gets it out fast, because if you don't god only knows when or if your going to get it.

Good luck to all.
LH

 

[Contraband]

The hypocrisy of our government is sickening. Of the people by the people BS. The DOJ can SMD

 

[lots0]

What I think is interesting is that Tom Scott of Absolute Poker Super User Cheating 'fame' was indicted.
According to Tokwiro(owner of Absolute Poker) Tom Scott left Absolute after the cheating scandal...

Who knows maybe now we will find out who was really behind ALL the cheating at Absolute and Ultimate...

 

[jetset]

Tokwiro sold AP to Blanca Games last year, along with UB.

I'd say that the Justice Department has taken on some powerful companies in this latest initiative, and they could be in for some heavyweight litigation.

The domain seizures inevitably remind one of Kentucky, an issue that has yet to be finally resolved.

I tend to agree with Simmo here that it does appear to be yet another move aimed at sweeping the competition away prior to some sort of legalisation that will benefit the major US corporates.

 

[Casinomeister]

Just another back-hander to clear the US market so the land-based corporations can get a clear run, surely? And another sign that regulation is coming IMO.

That's how I feel. Wipe out the competition and pave the way for poker.gov

Always be careful what you wish for.

 

[binshakindown]

Tokwiro sold AP to Blanca Games last year, along with UB.

I'd say that the Justice Department has taken on some powerful companies in this latest initiative, and they could be in for some heavyweight litigation.

The domain seizures inevitably remind one of Kentucky, an issue that has yet to be finally resolved.

I tend to agree with Simmo here that it does appear to be yet another move aimed at sweeping the competition away prior to some sort of legalisation that will benefit the major US corporates.

I concur with the above statements.

You know, Kansas now has a state owned and operated casino. In Colorado, the state is taking a slice of the cash pie from medical pot growers. In Oregon, the state took away the right for private citizens to own poker machines and within a couple years the state put all their poker machine in the bars.

I am just wondering when the states and the federal gov will get into the business of prostitution in the US. It is just a matter of time. And they will have the DOJ around to squash any competitors.

 

[rainmaker]

I see these charges as good news. As I have said before, companies that don't show responsibility, will at some point get f*****. The authorities has also issued restraining orders against more than 75 bank accounts in many different countries. One can only imagine how messy their company structure is.

"As charged, these defendants concocted an elaborate criminal fraud scheme, alternately tricking some U.S. banks and effectively bribing others to assure the continued flow of billions in illegal gambling profits," U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said in a statement.

Alleged fraud, laundering and bribery. Way to go.

 

[EbeeDog]

gee , gosh.....

These revelations matter not to me. I have always trusted in the integrity of online casinos. I can recognize a needy cause.

 

[deucebag]

I see these charges as good news. As I have said before, companies that don't show responsibility, will at some point get f*****. The authorities has also issued restraining orders against more than 75 bank accounts in many different countries. One can only imagine how messy their company structure is.

"As charged, these defendants concocted an elaborate criminal fraud scheme, alternately tricking some U.S. banks and effectively bribing others to assure the continued flow of billions in illegal gambling profits," U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara said in a statement.

Alleged fraud, laundering and bribery. Way to go.

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Apparently the fact that three different multi-billion dollar companies and several independent companies that perform services for them have a combined total of ~70 bank accounts is proof enough.

I have around 8 bank accounts myself y (not counting ewallets), and I don't even own any companies. They should throw me in the slammer!

 

[jelsmith]

West Virginia has slot machines in all the bars/restaurants/casinos....Im good friends with an operator and he said the state takes 48% of the take and the operator and business owner then split the 52% thats left over. Thats robbery in my opinion

 

[Simmo!]

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?!

Yeah and add to that they are only "guilty" because of a law hurriedly implemented with the sole purpose of making them guilty.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Holy Crap!! This is just horrible. My god, look how public this is, but you still can't find anything out about EwalletXpress.

So much for the land of the free....I hope everyone who has money in those poker accounts gets it out fast, because if you don't god only knows when or if your going to get it.

Good luck to all.
LH

This is what has been so odd. What was fundamentally different about EWX from all these other cases.

By freezing money belonging to players in countries where it is NOT illegal to play poker online, the US could have opened itself up to a wave of tit-for-tat retaliatory actions from the governments of countries that allow online poker.

I recall one threat was made from one small licensing jurisdiction that they would retaliate by refusing to implement US copyright laws within their own boundaries. This would make them a safe haven for file sharing companies, who could operate perfectly legally and offer free or cut price downloads of music, movies, and TV programmes. The hope was probably that the US media companies that faced losing out over this would put pressure on the US government to reach a settlement regarding offshore gambling companies.

The US unilaterally decided that the "free trade" rules did not apply to online gambling, so what is to stop any other country from arbitrarily deciding that these "free trade" laws do not apply to any other field. They could easily argue that copyright laws STIFLE free trade.

Russia hosts a music download site offering cut price downloads, and have made it perfectly legal by collecting a royalty that is made available for the copyright holders to colect at any time it wants. The copyright holders have refused to collect this money, because if they did, it would imply that they recognised the legality of this Russian law. Russia set this up because it considered the prices charged unfair on Russian consumers, who did not have the same levels of income as the rest of the developed world.

 

[rainmaker]

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Apparently the fact that three different multi-billion dollar companies and several independent companies that perform services for them have a combined total of ~70 bank accounts is proof enough.

I have around 8 bank accounts myself y (not counting ewallets), and I don't even own any companies. They should throw me in the slammer!

I wrote alleged fraud, laundering and bribery.

This has nothing to do about their accounts. I have 5 bank accounts myself. I just informed you that the authorities had issued restraining orders against more than 75 bank accounts in many different countries, since nobody had mentioned this in the thread. I did not use this information as an argument for them being guilty or not.

 

[deucebag]

I wrote alleged fraud, laundering and bribery.

This has nothing to do about their accounts. I have 5 bank accounts myself. I just informed you that the authorities had issued restraining orders against more than 75 bank accounts in many different countries, since nobody had mentioned this in the thread. I did not use this information as an argument for them being guilty or not.

Before that you wrote that you saw the charges as good news, and without breaking into a new paragraph wrote about the many bank accounts an messy company structure.

It reads like you think they are guilty as charged. Otherwise you wouldn't be happy about it.

 

[rainmaker]

Before that you wrote that you saw the charges as good news, and without breaking into a new paragraph wrote about the many bank accounts an messy company structure.

It reads like you think they are guilty as charged. Otherwise you wouldn't be happy about it.

Sorry if you were confused, my fault.

I think it is good news that actions are made ​​against companies in the industry that allegedly do not behave responsible. If certain companies continues to act irresponsibly, then will we all be banned from gambling online at some point.

I am fascinated by the gambling industry, and I love to gamble. I don`t want things like this to happen. But it is probably necessary to create a better, more honest and open industry.

 

[daveboz]

Quick Tender anyyone having difficulty?

The United States also filed a civil money laundering and in rem forfeiture complaint (the "Civil Complaint") against the Poker Companies, their assets, and the assets of several payment processors for the Poker Companies.

Is this a 'Heads Up' and something to be concerned about for those using payment processors? Does 'Payment Processors' refer to the likes of MB, Netteller...et al ?

Nate

Edited to Add: As alleged in the Indictment, to accomplish their fraud, the Poker Companies worked with an array of highly compensated "payment processors" – including defendants RYAN LANG, IRA RUBIN, BRADLEY FRANZEN, and CHAD ELIE – who obtained accounts at U. S. banks for the Poker Companies.

Quick Tender has denied my card several times the last few days. However, Bodog refers you to a callling card company (yeah right) to facilitate deposits. Worked fine. Something is up with the Fed bust. These outfits obviously weren't ponying upany juice to US authorities like all the others do (not public of course).

Banks were never fooled they know full well what they 're doing. My bank collects 2% on each transaction on top of what I already paid Quick Tender.

 

[deucebag]

I think it is good news that actions are made ​​against companies in the industry that allegedly do not behave responsible. If certain companies continues to act irresponsibly, then will we all be banned from gambling online at some point.

I am fascinated by the gambling industry, and I love to gamble. I don`t want things like this to happen. But it is probably necessary to create a better, more honest and open industry.

I think that's naive. If these sites didn't do what they did, they couldn't have accepted any American players. There would be no poker, casino, or other online gambling for Americans.

To me, the far greater wrong in this situation is the government denying people the right to do what they want with their own time and money. The DOJ is using strong-arm tactics to bring down the companies that try to challenge them. The DOJ have only self-serving motivations in doing so.

No online gambling company would be providing their services to Norwegians either, if they were to live by your standards. It is ironic that some of the companies that you approve of do the exact same things as PS/FT/AP/UB. Things that the US DOJ calll "money laundering" and "bank fraud".

Sometimes laws and governments have to be challenged to bring about change. There would be little progess if everyone were to sit on their hands and wait for explicit approval from every government before they did something.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

If the US Govt are thinking they can legalize and tax poker and online gambling they are making a massive mistake IMO. The lesson many other govts have learned is that the companies and players will always find a way to get together. If you try and tax it there will always be the offshore option or the illegal net poker ring etc etc.

Really the idea that makes them think they can tax it stems from the victorian belief that they think it's a vice rather than any economic argument. I know people have said legalise and tax it but that really is not the answer. Like if you started taxing poker the successful players would be forced offshore and the losing players would find the cost too great.

 

[rainmaker]

I think that's naive. If these sites didn't do what they did, they couldn't have accepted any American players. There would be no poker, casino, or other online gambling for Americans.

To me, the far greater wrong in this situation is the government denying people the right to do what they want with their own time and money. The DOJ is using strong-arm tactics to bring down the companies that try to challenge them. The DOJ have only self-serving motivations in doing so.

No online gambling company would be providing their services to Norwegians either, if they were to live by your standards. It is ironic that some of the companies that you approve of do the exact same things as PS/FT/AP/UB. Things that the US DOJ calll "money laundering" and "bank fraud".

Sometimes laws and governments have to be challenged to bring about change. There would be little progess if everyone were to sit on their hands and wait for explicit approval from every government before they did something.

First, if it was up to me, then everybody in the world would have the opportunity to gamble online. So I am not defending governments who are prohibiting it.

Secondly, the worlds largest online gambling market is not in the US, it is...you know, in the rest of the world.

Thirdly, it is completely legal for Norwegian players to play online. And it is completely legal for online casinos (overseas) to offer play to people living in Norway. We do not have a single law that prohibits this. Your comparison is not valid.

And finally, casinos who are offering play to players living in countries that prohibits online gambling are driven by greed. I don't care if the gambling site is named 3dice or Pokerstars. It shows a lack of respect for players' safety.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Yeah this is what annoys me too. Why whould Ladbrokes the worlds largest gambling company be frozen out of the US when a number of shady two bit offshore hucksters should be allowed to profit?

Lets' be honest the 1996 move was purely about protectionsim. The USA did not like the fact that they were way behind in online gambling and the UK based companies were about to wipe the floor with them.

It is kind of annoying that joker outfits have had the run of the US market when great companies like 32Red, bet365, William Hill and Betsson have all been denied.

 

[deucebag]

Thirdly, it is completely legal for Norwegian players to play online. And it is completely legal for online casinos (overseas) to offer play to people living in Norway. We do not have a single law that prohibits this. Your comparison is not valid.

And finally, casinos who are offering play to players living in countries that prohibits online gambling are driven by greed. I don't care if the gambling site is named 3dice or Pokerstars. It shows a lack of respect for players' safety.

It's not illegal to gamble online in most states in the US. And the Norwegian government, like the US government, have stated many times that companies offering gambling over the internet do so in violation of Norwegian law. The same goes for many European countries.

There is also a UIGEA-like law in place in Norway, making it illegal for banks to process gambling transactions that are identified as such. Like in the US, the response of many gambling operators has been to use third party processors that miscode transactions.

My comparison is valid.

But we're going off on a tangent, this thread is about poker in the US.

 

[lots0]

Online Poker is Legal in Washington D.C.

I imagine that people living in our Nations Capital are exempt from the UGIEA... as of a a couple of days ago...

Hmmm.... D.C. went legal just days before this big bust... Hands up if you think this is a coincidence...


And it really gets me that Poker is legal for the politicos in Washington... But not for the rest of us....