playerwin VS InterCasino

[kavaman]

What a reply from the casino.

1. Is october 2013 a bad month or whats up with that?
2. Always deposited with neteller? Umm, most players do use the same deposit method over and over again, so there is nothing strange about that.
3. Some players tend to use bonuses if they are offered, please stop offering bonuses if you don't wish for people to use them.
4. To my knowledge batman and superman are not high volatility (variance) slots, maybe medium, snake charmer is high, but can't the player choose what games he/she wishes to play?
5. I must agree that 20 - 60bets are high, but if the player was a high roller and even a vip i dont think this matters to pay or not to pay. Depends on the rules of the casino, meaning can vip customers bet more then 6.25 or not?

Four ip addresses used? Whats this about. To my knowledge people tend to use ONE ip address, i dont understand how the player ip address can change so drasticly to several networks. I mean the ip addreses you mentioned are from different networks, makes no sense to me. Please be more specific.

I hate to say , but i think the casino is really looking on ways not to pay the player. They should have a more specific case on what rules the player broke, not all the yadda yadda.

 

[Finn]

Four ip addresses used? Whats this about. To my knowledge people tend to use ONE ip address, i dont understand how the player ip address can change so drasticly to several networks. I mean the ip addreses you mentioned are from different networks, makes no sense to me. Please be more specific.

Due to IPv4 address exhaustion, vast majority of Western consumer grade broadband services assign dynamic IPs that change every session. In Finland, of consumer grade broadband services, you can get static IP address only to one consumer grade service for extra fee, LTE of one of three major operators, though that same operator does not offer static IP consumer grade landline solution. Apparently is really useful for some distance use applications, security web cams etc, so that operator decided to provide as extra service for a fee for their 3G/LTE. So basically like 99% of consumers have dynamic IPs and 3G/LTE connections are mostly IP addresses shared through NAT. So having different IP everytime you reconnect is normal.

If sharing IP addresses from 3 different networks isn't some weird attempt to cover identity by having multiple 3G/LTE connections, that could be VPN.


If 2 separate accounts shared 4 different IP addresses, of which 3 are from totally different networks, that is probably a sign of someone trying to pull of some multi accounting with VPN, public WLANs or multiple prepaid 3G/LTE connections and failing pretty badly at that.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Due to IPv4 address exhaustion, vast majority of Western consumer grade broadband services assign dynamic IPs that change every session. In Finland, of consumer grade broadband services, you can get static IP address only to one consumer grade service for extra fee, LTE of one of three major operators, though that same operator does not offer static IP consumer grade landline solution. Apparently is really useful for some distance use applications, security web cams etc, so that operator decided to provide as extra service for a fee for their 3G/LTE. So basically like 99% of consumers have dynamic IPs and 3G/LTE connections are mostly IP addresses shared through NAT. So having different IP everytime you reconnect is normal.

Apparently Sweden has at least 4 major 3G/LTE providers. If sharing IP addresses from 3 different networks isn't some weird attempt to cover identity by having multiple 3G/LTE connections, that could be VPN.


If 2 separate accounts shared 4 different IP addresses, of which 3 are from totally different networks, I'd say that is sign of trying to pull of some multi accounting with VPN, public WLANs or multiple prepaid 3G/LTE connections and failing pretty badly at that.

It's the same here in the UK. Providers can't get any more IP addresses, and they don't have enough to give every subscriber their own static one. The crisis point was reached some time ago, but dynamic IP assignment has patched the problem for years.

If it's different players who have used different IP addresses from different networks, then it tends to show that this is NOT a case of multi accounting. It's only similarities in playing style that they have as a concrete starting point.

One would of course take it for granted that the other players now in the frame have been bonus banned and their accounts sent for advanced scrutiny in order to bring this fraud to an end ASAP. Given that the IP addresses have been revealed, these other players can see for themselves whether or not they have been accused of being involved with this. It's harder to trace a person from their IP address though, as whilst ISPs keep records, they don't just give them out to anyone, there would need to be a court order or a formal request from a body like the police.

They can of course check for VPN use now that they have these IP addresses, as this would also be a breach of the terms.

If they can show that this is actually a case of a multi accounter or other fraudster getting caught, rather than a "spirit of the bonus" issue replied retrospectively because the player actually WON due to the rules not applying to VIPs, then sentiment will swing in favour of the casino.

The ONLY way forward now is for the OP to make the complaint formal via the PAB process here. The fraud issue has to be dealt with before the "spirit of the bonus" one.

We have also learned a new term today:-

high volatility bonus play

We have also learned that casinos don't like us playing low variance slots as they are for "grinding out WR", nor do they like us playing high variance slots, nor slots with an RTP in the top 1% or so offered by the casino. Table games are taboo, and so is video poker. Soon, we will be offered a bonus where the terms state "all games don't count towards the WR and cannot be played until the WR is complete".

 

[playerwin]

I received a message from user here who recommend to pitch a bitch, I will do it today

 

[maxd]

I received a message from user here who recommend to pitch a bitch, I will do it today

PAB received. I've got a fair backlog from our being away last week but I will get to this soon. In the meantime please ensure that you have read Pitch-A-Bitch FAQ.

The FAQ is necessary reading for all those who wish to use the PAB service. The FAQ tells you the scope of our service, what you can expect from us and -- also very important -- what we expect from you. If you don't understand and/or cooperate with the PAB process then your PAB will very likely fail. So please ensure you've read it.

 

[stokes]

I think Intercasino should present (maybe not for the public, but the player or Max) some solid evidence of the multiaccounting. For example they should show relation between the Neteller accounts (money transfer between them) and I guess they would have presented that if they were existed.

The IP address can be some proof, but it is not that easy as Intercasino claims at the moment.

Those 4 IP addresses belong to the same ISP (tele2.se), but there could be reasons why other player could use the same IP addresses. For instance the ISP might use DNAT (Dynamic Network Address Translation

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) which means their subscribers get only a private IP addresses and public IP addresses are provided from a small pool dynamically.

I work for a bigger international company (10 000+ employees) and we had that system a couple of years ago (it is changed now that all country has local access to internet). Because of that all people from my company accessed the internet looked like to come from a couple of IP addresses (same as the OP accused of).

 

[vinylweatherman]

I think Intercasino should present (maybe not for the public, but the player or Max) some solid evidence of the multiaccounting. For example they should show relation between the Neteller accounts (money transfer between them) and I guess they would have presented that if they were existed.

The IP address can be some proof, but it is not that easy as Intercasino claims at the moment.

Those 4 IP addresses belong to the same ISP (tele2.se), but there could be reasons why other player could use the same IP addresses. For instance the ISP might use DNAT (Dynamic Network Address Translation

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

) which means their subscribers get only a private IP addresses and public IP addresses are provided from a small pool dynamically.

I work for a bigger international company (10 000+ employees) and we had that system a couple of years ago (it is changed now that all country has local access to internet). Because of that all people from my company accessed the internet looked like to come from a couple of IP addresses (same as the OP accused of).

This is more or less what happens behind the scenes when a PAB is investigated.

 

[Slotaholic]

This doenst look like NDAT, it looks like the addresses are mobile broadband addressess.
All of them are SE-TELE2-MBB, and all mobile broad band have dynamic addresses, so you will gt a new ip every time you connect.
I cant see anything wrong with this,depending on your location you will be given a ip-range.




netnum: 5.240.0.0 - 5.241.255.255
netname: SE-TELE2-MBB
descr: Mobile Services
descr: ********************************************
In case of improper use originating from our
network, please mail Tele2 Security at
<abuse@tele2.com>
********************************************
country: SE
admin-c: SWIP-RIPE
tech-c: SWIP-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: SWIPNET-LIR-MNT
source: RIPE # Filtered


/Slotaholic

 

[questa]

All very circumstantial. Vodafone in the UK used to only have 4 IP addresses for it's entire mobile broadband network. I discovered this after problems at 888, where literally millions of people shared a small number of them - but 888 were bright enough to understand the explanation. Inter's bonuses are generally not good, 90xB on selected slots with £6.25 limits, yet they still want to track anyone down who may show any hint of brains when playing. They are in danger of destroying their 18 year reputation in the process.

 

[stokes]

All very circumstantial. Vodafone in the UK used to only have 4 IP addresses for it's entire mobile broadband network.

That is what I was trying explain with my example. It is called DNAT (if I am not mistaken).

You will not spare too many IP addresses if DHCP allocates them dynamically instead of static allocation. You would still need thousands of the IP addresses for an ISP.

 

[Finn]

This doenst look like NDAT, it looks like the addresses are mobile broadband addressess.
All of them are SE-TELE2-MBB, and all mobile broad band have dynamic addresses, so you will gt a new ip every time you connect.
I cant see anything wrong with this,depending on your location you will be given a ip-range.




netnum: 5.240.0.0 - 5.241.255.255
netname: SE-TELE2-MBB
descr: Mobile Services
descr: ********************************************
In case of improper use originating from our
network, please mail Tele2 Security at
<abuse@tele2.com>
********************************************
country: SE
admin-c: SWIP-RIPE
tech-c: SWIP-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: SWIPNET-LIR-MNT
source: RIPE # Filtered


/Slotaholic

So that operator has been assigned over 1.25 million dynamic IPs for their mobile users in that 5.240.0.0 - 5.241.255.255 range alone?

So supposedly by coincidence another player who also plays mostly 3 slots Batman, Superman and Snake Charmer in same bet sizes and patterns, and who just happened to register around the same time as the original poster, gets the same dynamic IP addresses assigned out of over million options, within few hours of the OP playing? Doesn't sound that likely.

 

[Tirilej]

So that operator has been assigned over 1.25 million dynamic IPs for their mobile users in that 5.240.0.0 - 5.241.255.255 range alone?

So supposedly by coincidence another player who also plays mostly 3 slots Batman, Superman and Snake Charmer in same bet sizes and patterns, and who just happened to register around the same time as the original poster, gets the same dynamic IP addresses assigned out of over million options, within few hours of the OP playing? Doesn't sound that likely.

That was not exactly what they said that the other or third person would have done, and they were still just suspicious.

They don't seem to have proof, but are just speculating...too.

I will not say anyone are in the right here until the PAB is finished. I trust both sides just as much, or as little in this case.

 

[paul7388]

Here we go again lol.

This seems to be yet another thread where a new member has came on and posted about a casino. Maybe everythings all true maybe not but yet again we are having yet another thread about how a casino is out of order and how they cannot get away with the way they are treating the customer.

Has nothing been learned on here in the last few months. How many times has someone came on and slated a casino for others to join in only to find out later the OP was either a liar or a fraud. Not saying that is the case here but the OP should PAB and after result of PAB is known then would be the time to say how unfair the casino is if OP wins PAB.

Until then everything here is just speculation and because of that its unfair to criticise a casino yet again with no facts to back it up.

 

[Slotaholic]

So that operator has been assigned over 1.25 million dynamic IPs for their mobile users in that 5.240.0.0 - 5.241.255.255 range alone?

So supposedly by coincidence another player who also plays mostly 3 slots Batman, Superman and Snake Charmer in same bet sizes and patterns, and who just happened to register around the same time as the original poster, gets the same dynamic IP addresses assigned out of over million options, within few hours of the OP playing? Doesn't sound that likely.

Im not making the numbers up, you can check i out your self.
Never workd with isp ip setups, but heres the 80.170 range.


Abuse contact for '80.170.0.0 - 80.170.127.255' is ''

inetnum: 80.170.0.0 - 80.170.127.255
netname: SE-TELE2-MBB
descr: Mobile Services
descr: Infra-aw
descr: **********************************************
In case of improper use originating from our
network, please mail Tele2 Security at
<>
***********************************************
country: SE
admin-c: SWIP-RIPE
tech-c: SWIP-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
notify:
mnt-by: SWIPNET-LIR-MNT
mnt-lower: SWIPNET-LIR-MNT

i didnt see the part that he had the same ip as the other accounts, if this is true then its not that hard to figure out.
I only thought that the issue was that the account was using multiple ip-addresses

/SLotaholic

 

[stokes]

So that operator has been assigned over 1.25 million dynamic IPs for their mobile users in that 5.240.0.0 - 5.241.255.255 range alone?

Not exactly as IPv4 addresses are canonically represented in dot-decimal notation, which consists of four decimal numbers, each ranging from 0 to 255, which means the maximum IP addresses available in that range would be 256X256X2=131 072 (or a bit less depending on the broadcast address and network identifier usage) which is still a lot especially that they have double amount of addresses at that range (from 5.240.0.0 to 5.243.255.255).

 

[vinylweatherman]

This doenst look like NDAT, it looks like the addresses are mobile broadband addressess.
All of them are SE-TELE2-MBB, and all mobile broad band have dynamic addresses, so you will gt a new ip every time you connect.
I cant see anything wrong with this,depending on your location you will be given a ip-range.




netnum: 5.240.0.0 - 5.241.255.255
netname: SE-TELE2-MBB
descr: Mobile Services
descr: ********************************************
In case of improper use originating from our
network, please mail Tele2 Security at
<abuse@tele2.com>
********************************************
country: SE
admin-c: SWIP-RIPE
tech-c: SWIP-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: SWIPNET-LIR-MNT
source: RIPE # Filtered


/Slotaholic

It depends. If they are in a city or large town and playing on a desktop PC at home, then it would be rather odd to use MOBILE broadband in preference to a standard ADSL or cable connection.

 

[Jasminebed]

It depends. If they are in a city or large town and playing on a desktop PC at home, then it would be rather odd to use MOBILE broadband in preference to a standard ADSL or cable connection.

Out of contract, I was exploring my cell phone options. we have a provider here (and in larger markets) that offers unlimited internet for a ridiculously low price, less than 1/3 of what I pay to my cable provider for capped internet. A lot of people use it to tether a wifi hotspot at home.

Unfortunately, depending just where in town you are, you might not get service, so their mobile service is not as mobile as one might hope. I do know a couple of people pretty happy for the cost, including one family that use another provider for their cell phones and just use that one for internet at home, including using streaming services for all their TV.

If it was just that, that would be one thing. But same games at same large bet sizes seems to indicate if not a case of multi-accounting, at least people that either know each other or belong to a forum or subscribe to a newsletter.

I don't feel it is unusual for a player to play only a handful of favourites though.

 

[Slotaholic]

It depends. If they are in a city or large town and playing on a desktop PC at home, then it would be rather odd to use MOBILE broadband in preference to a standard ADSL or cable connection.

Not here in stockholm, we have exelent 3g/4g coverage.
I know many who only use mobile broadband.

/Slotaholic

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hopefully we have this coming here. Mobile broadband tends to be capped at levels under 1Gig per month for the cheaper tariffs, and speed isn't as fast as cable. We are only just seeing 4g coming out, and the networks are making all kinds of promises about this being as good as, or possibly even faster, than most cable connections. However, the same promises were made with 3g, and although it can be a decent speed, data is VERY expensive compared to the "all you can eat" packages that are even becoming available at the cheaper end of the fixed line market.

If 4g lives up to promises though, coverage improves, and prices fall, then I can see the merit of having just one 4g mobile service for both mobile and home use, rather than spending money on two separate and not exactly cheap services that do the same thing.

Advances seem to be making patterns that would once look suspicious to patterns that an ordinary player might exhibit. Simply playing a strategy found in some newsletter or affiliate site isn't good enough for the casino was perfectly happy for said affiliate to have an account, send traffic, and earn money from said website. Besides, CASINOS will often send players mailers containing suggested strategies for winning on one of their "hot" games, so they can't complain either about players using strategies that might actually work.

Rather than moaning, casinos should rejoice when a player under this kind of suspicion is using Neteller. Neteller will quite happily confirm to a casino whether or not the player in question is making or receiving money transfers from the other players being investigated. A bank or card provider would be breaking the law if they did this without a court order. Even Neteller might be breaking data protection laws on this, but I am not aware that this has been brought to the ICO for a ruling.

 

[kavaman]

In finland we have 4g packages that cost roughly 30$ a month with unlimited 4g data transfers. It is actualy really popular here to use only 4g as the coverage is pretty good and getting better, so this depends on countries if its suspicious or not to use 4g. However the cable or adsl is a bit faster and the ping is better if you play video games aswell, so i prefer cable , but have 4g as backup when im playing poker.

 

[spintee]

After seeing VWM's statement about mobile and fixed line I agree,

U.K is abit behind on the 4g and one of the reasons is that they are earning so much money from a fixed land line which you must have most of the time to get cable/fiberoptic , My land line is nether plugged in as I not use it, Only got it for the internet,

As soon as 4g is rife and no limit internet than good by land lines and BT, I believe its B.T holding it back as they are going to lose multi millions of pounds as soon as 4G take over, No person is going to want a land line as there will be no need, There is options to have a cable internet without phone but it works out about the same price, I canot wait to to see BT disappear, There still digging up roads putting fiber optic in, I think its abit late now

 

[larslinq]

Status

What happened to this one? Whats the status?

 

[Matti]

What happened to this one? Whats the status?

If you look under the OPs name who filed the PAB you can see that it is ongoing by the gray color. This means no one involved in this errand can comment.

You can read more about the process here https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

 

[maxd]

Hi, just thought I'd clarify the point about not posting on this subject. All we ask is that the PABer not discuss the issue here on the forums while the PAB is ongoing.

As explained in the FAQ we ask this so that the negotiation process between us and the casino is not disrupted. In our experience the unavoidably volatile nature of forum discussions has a high tendancy to derail those negotiations.

In this particular case the casino has made some fairly serious accusations against the player, those need to be investigated thoroughly before a decision can be reached.

 

[wolfydan121]

Is there any update on this one maxd???