Players' Rights and the use of unfair T&Cs by gambling operators

[Jasminebed]

It was many years ago, and I don't know if the same procedure is still in place.

But Bet365 allowed me to make a first deposit, (which I lost), and the second deposit required me to enter a code that that was snail-mailed to me.

Seems like a pretty reasonable compromise to me.

Last name and DOB should be a lock IMO until other details are verified. Both to prevent duplicate accounts and those SE'd. While I personally know 4 Robert Roberts, and 3 Doug Smiths, all in my relative small city, none of them share a date of birth. I did know two people with my last name, my grandma and my brother, with the same birthday, but it was separated by 70 years.

There have been a couple of casinos that offered a small incentive to verify your account. Think that's pretty attractive to the average low-rolling punter, which really is the bread and butter of the casino operators.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying it's not as straight forward as many people would like to imagine. It requires specialist programming and a lot of careful consideration as to how you weight the grading system to not impede/put off players where there's no reason to while at the same time catching any account that is genuinely duplicate.

This type of software exist already in the mainstream, casinos certainly won't have to reinvent the wheel.

The main reason behind this reluctance from the casinos to implement working tools is rather their thought of losing business, nothing else.

Let's be honest, in essence casino operators give a flying monkey whether a player loses his last dime, is an addict or whatever as long as the dollar keeps rolling in. You are probably one of the few who has insight at how much lobbying from the industry has been done against regulation, be it licensing, RG or taxes.

Just over a decade ago, KYC was hardly done, unless you won a huge amount of money. I played sometimes for years at a few casinos before they asked me for KYC docs and that was mainly because i had my first bigger withdrawal. Countless deposits and small cashins before that, amounting to tens of thousands were possible without any KYC whatsoever.

It was only later that some KYC and RG regulation was implemented, still nothing firm or clear.

What i am trying to say is that online casinos had nearly 2 decades to develop and introduce clear and straightforward KYC and RG procedures, yet all the time they did only just the absolute minimum required by regulations/legislation, not a "iota" more. At the end of the day they want every possible dollar from a player and as long as that is the main driving point we will never see complete, simple and easy to understand and adhere to T&C's, KYC and RG procedures, which are the same across all online casinos.

 

[Casinomeister]

Admin Note: thread title changed

Changed from "Today on BBCR4 at 12.15..." To "Players Rights..." since it's not today anymore.

 

[spintee]

Sorry, unfortunately i missed the program on R4, read the thread too late. SNIPED

If you click the 1st link in my post on page one, it takes you straight to it where you can still listen, Click play and its just after the 1st minute,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[ThePOGG]

This type of software exist already in the mainstream, casinos certainly won't have to reinvent the wheel.

The main reason behind this reluctance from the casinos to implement working tools is rather their thought of losing business, nothing else.

I can't agree with you at all on that. Lots of technology exists, yet it's not as simple as cookie cutter, copy and paste into what's already there.

I run a fairly sizeable network of sites - I can say that regardless of the technology already existing, when I want a new feature I need to either get a programmer in to build it from scratch or pay to buy something in.

When you are looking to buy something in there are 3 potential barriers - 1) the software you are looking for actually being on sale (just because it's been developed by someone else doesn't mean that they're looking to sell it) 2) the cost and 3) where a program isn't custom built for you it generally only approximates what you're looking to do rather than matching your needs exactly. This creates no end of problems.

The perfect examples for this are WordPress and forum softwares - I'm strong considering moving off of the 'one size fits all' platforms and looking towards customized interfaces in the future. In every situation to date I can find additions to these type of platforms that kinda do what I want, but still fail to achieve the specific required goals.

The alternative is building the tool from scratch. This means sourcing programmers that are not only skilled enough to build the required system (and what we're talking about isn't no WordPress plugin here) but understand the purpose of the tool and your system well enough to anticipate potential problems and plan ahead for them. Alongside this, the more complicated you make your system the more sensitive it becomes to any changes and the more vulnerabilities inherently turn up that can be maliciously exploited (talking hacking not playing here).

The long and short of this is that each platform provider has developed and runs their own system. Buying in some turnkey package isn't going to work specifically because they need it to run perfectly. In most situations within online gambling it's a PR disaster to say that your technological system failed. It's better to say you can't do it and not do it than say you can and be seen to fail or half arse the job.

Let's be honest, in essence casino operators give a flying monkey whether a player loses his last dime, is an addict or whatever as long as the dollar keeps rolling in. You are probably one of the few who has insight at how much lobbying from the industry has been done against regulation, be it licensing, RG or taxes.

I do and I don't agree with this. There is unquestionably incentive for operators not to fix this and I entirely agree that more needs to be done. This is an industry that is based on greed and it cannot function without regulation. We all see how operators in weakly regulated jurisdictions behave. The industry won't do the right thing on its own. However for most operators I think the primary incentive not to change is less about the extra money coming in and more about the outlay to properly develop, test and implement the required systems.

That said, I would openly say that some groups are far more willing and are doing a far better job than others at moving in the right direction. Some groups are simply stringing people along and twisting the spirit of the rules to suit themselves. And that's the real problem at the moment - you have groups that genuinely try to do the right thing, look at the rules and think about what they're intended to do and other groups looking at the rules and trying to figure out the best ways to get round them (the irony is that the groups taking the latter approach are often the ones most offended by smart players that figure out loop holes in their rules). There's not enough consistency and my personal opinion is that the UKGC is still trying to figure out how to enforce consistency without alienating the very people they need to get cooperation from.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I can't agree with you at all on that. Lots of technology exists, yet it's not as simple as cookie cutter, copy and paste into what's already there.

I run a fairly sizeable network of sites - I can say that regardless of the technology already existing, when I want a new feature I need to either get a programmer in to build it from scratch or pay to buy something in.

When you are looking to buy something in there are 3 potential barriers - 1) the software you are looking for actually being on sale (just because it's been developed by someone else doesn't mean that they're looking to sell it) 2) the cost and 3) where a program isn't custom built for you it generally only approximates what you're looking to do rather than matching your needs exactly. This creates no end of problems.

The perfect examples for this are WordPress and forum softwares - I'm strong considering moving off of the 'one size fits all' platforms and looking towards customized interfaces in the future. In every situation to date I can find additions to these type of platforms that kinda do what I want, but still fail to achieve the specific required goals.

The alternative is building the tool from scratch. This means sourcing programmers that are not only skilled enough to build the required system (and what we're talking about isn't no WordPress plugin here) but understand the purpose of the tool and your system well enough to anticipate potential problems and plan ahead for them. Alongside this, the more complicated you make your system the more sensitive it becomes to any changes and the more vulnerabilities inherently turn up that can be maliciously exploited (talking hacking not playing here).

The long and short of this is that each platform provider has developed and runs their own system. Buying in some turnkey package isn't going to work specifically because they need it to run perfectly. In most situations within online gambling it's a PR disaster to say that your technological system failed. It's better to say you can't do it and not do it than say you can and be seen to fail or half arse the job.




I do and I don't agree with this. There is unquestionably incentive for operators not to fix this and I entirely agree that more needs to be done. This is an industry that is based on greed and it cannot function without regulation. We all see how operators in weakly regulated jurisdictions behave. The industry won't do the right thing on its own. However for most operators I think the primary incentive not to change is less about the extra money coming in and more about the outlay to properly develop, test and implement the required systems.

That said, I would openly say that some groups are far more willing and are doing a far better job than others at moving in the right direction. Some groups are simply stringing people along and twisting the spirit of the rules to suit themselves. And that's the real problem at the moment - you have groups that genuinely try to do the right thing, look at the rules and think about what they're intended to do and other groups looking at the rules and trying to figure out the best ways to get round them (the irony is that the groups taking the latter approach are often the ones most offended by smart players that figure out loop holes in their rules). There's not enough consistency and my personal opinion is that the UKGC is still trying to figure out how to enforce consistency without alienating the very people they need to get cooperation from.

I understand that it won't be simple but if you just look at the tools companies like Google can and have on offer, which are used even by some government agencies, then i cannot comprehend that it would be so complex/difficult to implement them within the existing CRM software casinos are using. Google goes as far as to offering even the implementation, certainly costs money but it is absolutely doable.

Since KYC is handled by the back end of the casino software it would not impact their front end at all.

As to your second part, i have been surprised lately by some operators which have implemented RG tools that give a player full control of their gaming experience, something unthinkable just 2 or 3 years ago.

Worth mentioning here are the WITHDRAWAL LOCK function recently introduced by Rizk which together with their self - set RG console is absolutely commendable.

Videoslots as well have a fully self-set RG console where you can even set a maximum bet size to avoid overbetting.

So there is progress, although not industry wide yet but it is a start. The huge success of the likes of Videoslots and Rizk, who have risen to well known and liked brands within a relatively short period, shows that you can combine proper RG with a successful casino operation.

What i have seen though as well is that established brands started degrading their RG offers down to the absolute minimum regulations are asking for. That i cannot welcome, to be honest.

 

[ThePOGG]

HBKK - on this we couldn't be more in agreement. There's progress in the industry but it's happening slowly and with those groups that care most about their reputation (it's not hard to see why these groups end up well placed on certain affiliate sites).

There's still a lot to be done and if the rest of industry followed the likes of the Guts group and Video Slots thing would get better quickly. There's a need for a stronger push from a regulatory angle to make this happen though.

The BBC4 radio show highlighted a problem issue - that being operators trying to misrepresent the legal rights of their consumers. I'm not totally sold that this is confusing loads of players, but at it's core it's fundamentally wrong. It's an intentional attempt to convince players that they don't have rights that are legally enforceable regardless of terms and conditions. That's not okay.

 

[Harry_BKK]

HBKK - on this we couldn't be more in agreement. There's progress in the industry but it's happening slowly and with those groups that care most about their reputation (it's not hard to see why these groups end up well placed on certain affiliate sites).

There's still a lot to be done and if the rest of industry followed the likes of the Guts group and Video Slots thing would get better quickly. There's a need for a stronger push from a regulatory angle to make this happen though.

The BBC4 radio show highlighted a problem issue - that being operators trying to misrepresent the legal rights of their consumers. I'm not totally sold that this is confusing loads of players, but at it's core it's fundamentally wrong. It's an intentional attempt to convince players that they don't have rights that are legally enforceable regardless of terms and conditions. That's not okay.

Most definitely. The majority of casino operators will not do anything until regulations/laws force them to.

Sorry, still no had time to listen to the BBC4 show. They'd wish, would be my answer. No T&C's are legally enforceable if they unfairly disadvantage one party and lately courts have taken more to the side of the consumer. Hence, any casino operator trying to convince a player that he forgoes his legal rights, just because he ticked a box at registration agreeing to the T&C's, is laughable at best.

But i can see many unwary punters falling for the trick and stop pursuing their claims.

 

[maxd]

The majority of casino operators will not do anything until regulations/laws force them to. ...

And will attempt a lot of hinky shit in the meantime. If it was just a matter of dragging their feet until they're forced to do the right thing it would be bad enough but the fact that a shocking number of operators will happily lie, cheat and steal until someone makes it impossible -- or too expensive -- for them to continue is where a good bit of player's agony originates.

I'm coming up on 10 years of PAB work and I've observed that players largely think that casinos are out to cheat them and casinos largely feel the same way about players: the great truth here is that both are 100% right! I know it's pretty much a truism in this business but there is and always has been a serious amount of dirt being done on both sides of the line. Standing in the middle as an arbitrator my "golden rule" is that proof keeps everything friendly.

On the one hand that is not particularly encouraging, and it is what it is. On the other hand there are a good number of totally decent people running casinos and the same is true for the player community. Both parties would do well to make a point of recognizing, embracing and championing the good guys. I dare say the annual Casinomeister Awards are a pretty fair example of doing just that, if I may toot our own horn a wee bit. Certainly endless mutual suspicion and mistrust is no way to run a business nor enjoy one's pastime.

 

[Richas]

I understand that it won't be simple but if you just look at the tools companies like Google can and have on offer, which are used even by some government agencies, then i cannot comprehend that it would be so complex/difficult to implement them within the existing CRM software casinos are using. Google goes as far as to offering even the implementation, certainly costs money but it is absolutely doable.

Since KYC is handled by the back end of the casino software it would not impact their front end at all.

It is surprisingly difficult to get a workable way to share self exclusion info to block deposits up front as we all want. Ok the smallest firms don't get many duplicates or people going to the same site whereas the biggest ones with dozens of brand names get plenty, all with different legacy systems from firms they have aquired.

The new multi-operator self exclusion scheme that will apply to all UKGC licencees and was/is due next April came in with an estimated setup cost of £2m and annual running costs of £1.5m and that seemed to be for UK players only using a UK government Gateway ID. To give you a sense of scale the entire UKGC regulatory operation for everything is about £12m a year.

The RGA is supposed to be leading on this now and I have not heard about their progress but it really is not that simple to have a low cost check on first deposit to ensure self excluders are properly identified before fairly immediate access - which is what the rest of the consumers want. It's a while back that they were recruiting for the project so maybe there will be news soon.

The other trouble of this change for both the UKGC and the operators is that many of the issues with SE coming up now at operators with many brands/sites should be reslved via this new system so duplicating the cost by sorting it out themselves now is just seen as extra cost that in a few months wil be wasted, indeed the national scheme could beat them to rollout (or reliability) as it is a new scheme not messing with multiple legacy systems. The google type options aren't really the ticket s they would miss many, no unique identifier and have too many false positives.

 

[Harry_BKK]

It is surprisingly difficult to get a workable way to share self exclusion info to block deposits up front as we all want. Ok the smallest firms don't get many duplicates or people going to the same site whereas the biggest ones with dozens of brand names get plenty, all with different legacy systems from firms they have aquired.

The new multi-operator self exclusion scheme that will apply to all UKGC licencees and was/is due next April came in with an estimated setup cost of £2m and annual running costs of £1.5m and that seemed to be for UK players only using a UK government Gateway ID. To give you a sense of scale the entire UKGC regulatory operation for everything is about £12m a year.

The RGA is supposed to be leading on this now and I have not heard about their progress but it really is not that simple to have a low cost check on first deposit to ensure self excluders are properly identified before fairly immediate access - which is what the rest of the consumers want. It's a while back that they were recruiting for the project so maybe there will be news soon.

The other trouble of this change for both the UKGC and the operators is that many of the issues with SE coming up now at operators with many brands/sites should be reslved via this new system so duplicating the cost by sorting it out themselves now is just seen as extra cost that in a few months wil be wasted, indeed the national scheme could beat them to rollout (or reliability) as it is a new scheme not messing with multiple legacy systems. The google type options aren't really the ticket s they would miss many, no unique identifier and have too many false positives.

Of course it would be wasted money NOW. But for the past years they happily accepted deposits without having the risk to pay out winnings and decided to stay put until something is forced on to them or the regulations are tightened.

Nobody, and i mean absolutely nobody can convince me that with today's technology it is either not easily possible or too costly to automatically and instantly compare within a group database an email address, first & last name, DOB, address, ID number on registration of a genuine new player.

Cheats, fraudsters etc will always find a way of circumventing a system, no matter if it is localized in a casino group or central with the UKGC.

But I am talking here about the genuine player having SE'ed at one casino and is now registering with another one, not knowing, not thinking, too lazy to read xxx amount of pages to find out that the casino is a sister site of the one they previously SE'ed. Most didn't even know about this SE "spiel" until they had the first time problems to get a cashin paid. Just by the amount of players we had here on CM i suspect there must have been 1,000's, if not 10,000's, who were caught out by this and never received neither their winnings nor their deposits back. And i am not even counting those who made and lost their deposits without submitting a withdrawal and never went back to the casino in question, hence went completely undetected and the casino just kept the money without even checking the account for SE.

Most casinos wouldn't do the check until the player submitted a withdrawal request. That in itself is a huge failure in fraud detection as some people would deposit thousands before managing to make a withdrawal. So the casinos never question where the money is coming from but after a good win for the player...VOILA, they jump into action. How convenient.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It is surprisingly difficult to get a workable way to share self exclusion info to block deposits up front as we all want. Ok the smallest firms don't get many duplicates or people going to the same site whereas the biggest ones with dozens of brand names get plenty, all with different legacy systems from firms they have aquired.

The new multi-operator self exclusion scheme that will apply to all UKGC licencees and was/is due next April came in with an estimated setup cost of £2m and annual running costs of £1.5m and that seemed to be for UK players only using a UK government Gateway ID. To give you a sense of scale the entire UKGC regulatory operation for everything is about £12m a year.

The RGA is supposed to be leading on this now and I have not heard about their progress but it really is not that simple to have a low cost check on first deposit to ensure self excluders are properly identified before fairly immediate access - which is what the rest of the consumers want. It's a while back that they were recruiting for the project so maybe there will be news soon.

The other trouble of this change for both the UKGC and the operators is that many of the issues with SE coming up now at operators with many brands/sites should be reslved via this new system so duplicating the cost by sorting it out themselves now is just seen as extra cost that in a few months wil be wasted, indeed the national scheme could beat them to rollout (or reliability) as it is a new scheme not messing with multiple legacy systems. The google type options aren't really the ticket s they would miss many, no unique identifier and have too many false positives.

Given that most casinos will ONLY accept passport or driving license through the normal KYC channels, they had a solution all along, the driver number and passport number. These would uniquely identify UK players for life, regardless of how they wrote their names, DoB, or changed email address or moved house. A check against driver number and passport number for duplicates in the system as well as validity with external databases would not hold players up who want to deposit and play "right now". This would at least ensure that a valid and unique identity was being used to register the account, and should catch many problem players before they even get as far as depositing. As players continue the process, further instant electronic checks can build credibility for the player without holding up their experience. When they make their first deposit, electronic checks can be made to ensure the deposit method is held in the name of the player who has just registered, and that it has not been used before by another player, nor for anything questionable in the past. In a matter of seconds, this can either allow the player to continue or lock the account for manual review.

Having players upload their ID document at the same time as giving it's unique number will allow a basic and automated verification of the document by optical character recognition software checking that the details on it match what has been supplied during registration. Again this can be used to lock a suspicious account for manual review or allow the player to continue playing on the first deposit.

It won't screen out the determined fraudster, but it should screen out many players who have made innocent mistakes so that matters don't get to the stage where they end up being denied payment, or lose money where they could never have won.

These checks can be done in seconds via electronic databases, they will not have an impact on the impulse nature of the player wanting to play now, rather than the following Monday.

 

[spintee]

You have to remember its also easy to obtain a drive licence (fake but real), not so much pass ports but will not say nothing on that,

Any way it should of been simple for U.K players when the U.K regs came into effect, What they should of done is hold a data base them selfs, I am sure it would of been pretty accurate considering what the gov holds on us, I think if my memery serves me right it was Nicola mentioned such things when she said she was starting up a site,
Upload your docs to the gaming commission then the casino can just go by there, It did not happen for a few reasons, 1st they have not got a scobby, 2nd all there interested in is the income it brings,

I know casino go overboard now days but there only trying to protect them selfs, Not only due to the regs but so you can reverse (little joke)

In any case when they do not know what they are anyway ? Take the casumo thread the other day and players getting excluded instead of taking a break, Most of this goes back to CS (live chat) that do not know what a casino is let alone sorting probs out. (repeat not all but most)

I had a chat with a casino the other day about my new card, I have had about 4 since I been playing there, each time I been asked for a copy of card, This time I was not? It may of been as I approached them to say that its not letting me change my name when enter a new card, My names not change and did not relies that where it states (name on card) it has always been my full name that was on there site but on card its my first initials than last name, They stated let me speak to some one and get back, I was told its fine and they probs maked it as ok, I do not know as I am unsure how it works there end but I was not asked,

It boggles my mind how people say its not so easy? and cost money? Yes it most probs cost money but so does every thing else, I no expert but I bet I could bodge a program, I say bodge as thats what I normally do but we are not talking about a few minor fish here, We are talking great whites with plenty of change kicking about,

Only way this casino industry is going to survive is if the big operators / providers put there hands in there pockets, Look how many times we have been told there is no direct link to chat to suppliers of the games? when theres a problem? I guess they can get hold of them some how but if there as bad as most casino CS than no wonder we are constant deleting cookies and errors none stop.

Go go back to casino will not last, Well most will not but the operators / providers are not bothered, as long as they are getting there revenue they could not be bothered if casino went out of businesses, Reason being there is many more that will try there luck and pay them and when they need help? No as we have many more casino that wants our machines,

We put alot of blame on the casino it selfs when in reality they do there best to give us a good experience , Take the good reps that sweet blood trying to help us out on here, I think thats the only thing that keeps alot going, These good forums, Some do not bother due to heavy in the market, Others do not as there dodgy or just not bothered about players ,

I respect the reps that come on here, help us out

Sorry guys if a bit confusion, Doing a VWM special l

 

[vinylweatherman]

You have to remember its also easy to obtain a drive licence (fake but real), not so much pass ports but will not say nothing on that,

Any way it should of been simple for U.K players when the U.K regs came into effect, What they should of done is hold a data base them selfs, I am sure it would of been pretty accurate considering what the gov holds on us, I think if my memery serves me right it was Nicola mentioned such things when she said she was starting up a site,
Upload your docs to the gaming commission then the casino can just go by there, It did not happen for a few reasons, 1st they have not got a scobby, 2nd all there interested in is the income it brings,

I know casino go overboard now days but there only trying to protect them selfs, Not only due to the regs but so you can reverse (little joke)

In any case when they do not know what they are anyway ? Take the casumo thread the other day and players getting excluded instead of taking a break, Most of this goes back to CS (live chat) that do not know what a casino is let alone sorting probs out. (repeat not all but most)

I had a chat with a casino the other day about my new card, I have had about 4 since I been playing there, each time I been asked for a copy of card, This time I was not? It may of been as I approached them to say that its not letting me change my name when enter a new card, My names not change and did not relies that where it states (name on card) it has always been my full name that was on there site but on card its my first initials than last name, They stated let me speak to some one and get back, I was told its fine and they probs maked it as ok, I do not know as I am unsure how it works there end but I was not asked,

It boggles my mind how people say its not so easy? and cost money? Yes it most probs cost money but so does every thing else, I no expert but I bet I could bodge a program, I say bodge as thats what I normally do but we are not talking about a few minor fish here, We are talking great whites with plenty of change kicking about,

Only way this casino industry is going to survive is if the big operators / providers put there hands in there pockets, Look how many times we have been told there is no direct link to chat to suppliers of the games? when theres a problem? I guess they can get hold of them some how but if there as bad as most casino CS than no wonder we are constant deleting cookies and errors none stop.

Go go back to casino will not last, Well most will not but the operators / providers are not bothered, as long as they are getting there revenue they could not be bothered if casino went out of businesses, Reason being there is many more that will try there luck and pay them and when they need help? No as we have many more casino that wants our machines,

We put alot of blame on the casino it selfs when in reality they do there best to give us a good experience , Take the good reps that sweet blood trying to help us out on here, I think thats the only thing that keeps alot going, These good forums, Some do not bother due to heavy in the market, Others do not as there dodgy or just not bothered about players ,

I respect the reps that come on here, help us out

Sorry guys if a bit confusion, Doing a VWM special l

If you think it's "easy to get a driving license", try having Epilepsy or Diabetes, it's simply not allowed!!!! Even when you are allowed, what is issued is a provisional, but many casinos won't accept this, they want a full, which means learning to drive and passing the test, not simply having your ID documents verified by DVLA. It costs over £700 for a 1 week intensive course to learn to drive, and you still have to pass the test at the end.

Passports are also not "easy to get", there is a fee of over £100, and you have to travel for a face to face interview if it's your first one. It then takes 6 weeks or more to arrive after this, there is no "fast track" allowed for the first passport any longer. When I got my passport, I was asked what I wanted it for, so it looks like it can be denied if you are deemed to want it for the wrong reason. Fortunately, I didn't have to lie, I needed it because I had just won a trip to Berlin. If someone is only getting a passport because a casino says they need it, they face a dilemma when asked this question as the truth could present a real problem, so they would have to say something vague about wanting it in case they want to go abroad at short notice, even though they had no specific trip booked at the time of application. They must NEVER say "because xxxxxx online casino says this is the only document they will accept to verify my ID", at least not until they have got the passport.

Neither offers an "ID verification only" option, applicants need to be serious about actually wanting to drive or wanting to go abroad.

Most other countries issue citizens with "ID verification only" cards, and they are in addition to passports and driving licenses. As they are issued as a matter of course, no one should be in the position of not having one when it's needed.

 

[colinsunderland]

If you think it's "easy to get a driving license", try having Epilepsy or Diabetes, it's simply not allowed!!!! Even when you are allowed, what is issued is a provisional, but many casinos won't accept this, they want a full, which means learning to drive and passing the test, not simply having your ID documents verified by DVLA. It costs over £700 for a 1 week intensive course to learn to drive, and you still have to pass the test at the end.

Passports are also not "easy to get", there is a fee of over £100, and you have to travel for a face to face interview if it's your first one. It then takes 6 weeks or more to arrive after this, there is no "fast track" allowed for the first passport any longer. When I got my passport, I was asked what I wanted it for, so it looks like it can be denied if you are deemed to want it for the wrong reason. Fortunately, I didn't have to lie, I needed it because I had just won a trip to Berlin. If someone is only getting a passport because a casino says they need it, they face a dilemma when asked this question as the truth could present a real problem, so they would have to say something vague about wanting it in case they want to go abroad at short notice, even though they had no specific trip booked at the time of application. They must NEVER say "because xxxxxx online casino says this is the only document they will accept to verify my ID", at least not until they have got the passport.

Neither offers an "ID verification only" option, applicants need to be serious about actually wanting to drive or wanting to go abroad.

Most other countries issue citizens with "ID verification only" cards, and they are in addition to passports and driving licenses. As they are issued as a matter of course, no one should be in the position of not having one when it's needed.

I think he was talking about getting them from non legitimate sources and would agree with him, getting them isn't hard unfortunately.

 

[spintee]

I think he was talking about getting them from non legitimate sources and would agree with him, getting them isn't hard unfortunately.

I didnt want to realy go into illegal stuff but @VWM a pro licence is no different than a full one, things have probably changed from your days, All sites have accepted mine without fuss, Yes you have to sign a declaration about any things such as blindness or fits, But whats a small whit lie as you will not be using it to drive, lso I didnt know you have to have a one to one when getting a PP? Some country's maybe to get a visa,

Who wouldn't want to accept that I.D with my ugly mug but its a good few years ago

 

[goatwack]

I didnt want to realy go into illegal stuff but @VWM a pro licence is no different than a full one, things have probably changed from your days, All sites have accepted mine without fuss, Yes you have to sign a declaration about any things such as blindness or fits, But whats a small whit lie as you will not be using it to drive, lso I didnt know you have to have a one to one when getting a PP? Some country's maybe to get a visa,

Who wouldn't want to accept that I.D with my ugly mug but its a good few years ago

View attachment 69969

Prison Break are still casting for the new season I heard

 

[spintee]

Prison Break are still casting for the new season I heard

LoL I love prison break untill the end it turned shit, I wonder if casino would accept prison I.D

 

[goatwack]

LoL I love prison break untill the end it turned shit, I wonder if casino would accept prison I.D

View attachment 69970

You have to make that your profile pic!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I think he was talking about getting them from non legitimate sources and would agree with him, getting them isn't hard unfortunately.

I see, yet casinos think these are cast iron proofs, but reject the birth certificate because it's so easy to get hold of.


A Panorama program once showed how easy it was to trick DVLA into issuing a "fake" driving licence, they got one in the name of David Blunkett, the BLIND home secretary at the time. Along with diabetics and epileptics, blind people also cannot hold a driving licence. This one should have been easy for DVLA to spot, but what about the more mundane issue of getting driving licenses in the name of a stolen ID, and these would be legitimate licenses, not fake, and they would verify if checked with the DVLA. It is stressed that such documents are not "proof of identity", and it's the same with passports, although it's much harder to trick the system into issuing a passport for a stolen identity, but fakes are available.

 

[spintee]

I see, yet casinos think these are cast iron proofs, but reject the birth certificate because it's so easy to get hold of.


A Panorama program once showed how easy it was to trick DVLA into issuing a "fake" driving licence, they got one in the name of David Blunkett, the BLIND home secretary at the time. Along with diabetics and epileptics, blind people also cannot hold a driving licence. This one should have been easy for DVLA to spot, but what about the more mundane issue of getting driving licenses in the name of a stolen ID, and these would be legitimate licenses, not fake, and they would verify if checked with the DVLA. It is stressed that such documents are not "proof of identity", and it's the same with passports, although it's much harder to trick the system into issuing a passport for a stolen identity, but fakes are available.

Yes and there was another one when somebody had about 20 licence all with the same picture, It only took 20 times to spot it was the same person even thou I am sure it was getting sent to the same address What they should have is face detect really, even if its not 100% a curate as Its serious with all the wars and that going on and illegals,

But most casino I am sure if they know you are a genuine than I am sure there noit going to go over any I.D with a tooth pick, They just need to say that there going by the rules, Just like if you went into a pub under age and they knew you was not 18 as long as you had some sort of I.D

Did I mention I went to tesco the other day to change some Erous back up for mys sister, I will not go into the terrible exchange rate but man in front bought aload of $ & the women wanted I.D and card being used, Not only that but she actually scanned took pictures of both, I think thats illegal as she didnt tell him she was taking the picture

 

[spintee]

You have to make that your profile pic!

Just for you, Unfortunate I changed but not showing, I actually sorted my hard drives out the other day so I will actually put a half decent one on, that pic already is been on too long, I had about 6 lose hard drives all filled up ranging from 80gb to 1TB & took some bloody time to sort them

 

[colinsunderland]

LoL I love prison break untill the end it turned shit, I wonder if casino would accept prison I.D

View attachment 69970

thats a legit prison ID isn't it?

 

[spintee]

thats a legit prison ID isn't it?

100% not proud of my past but I do not mess about/, As you guys know and every one that knows me, I will help any one out and give my last pennys, If the casino sites not took the change

 

[Jono777]

Sorry If I make ya blush, but your a good bloke Tez, I will vouch for that any day