Phil Ivey loses £7m claim against UK casino

[spintee]

I think the only way a rich AP could beat the casino without being an expert Blackjack player / cardcounter (and without getting sued), is to ask for some kind of cashback on any losses that exceed $xx,xxx,xxx. Do this at several different casinos and even if your cashback is a lousy 10% of your session losses, you could devise a successful +EV strategy.

Phil should try this.

I do not think he will be trying anythink

He be black listed now from most,I do not really no how they govern this type of stuff but if the courts have not gone in hes favor than he may well find him self bared from major tourneys as well,

I guess he is flush with cash but I bet theses court cases are not going to be cheap, I think this is just the begging of things, I have not read the full articals on the subject but from what I have read than he played unfair,

Saying that its like online casinos, If alot of casinos are going to chase him for winnings than can he claim the money he has lost at others?

 

[vinylweatherman]

I do not think he will be trying anythink

He be black listed now from most,I do not really no how they govern this type of stuff but if the courts have not gone in hes favor than he may well find him self bared from major tourneys as well,

I guess he is flush with cash but I bet theses court cases are not going to be cheap, I think this is just the begging of things, I have not read the full articals on the subject but from what I have read than he played unfair,

Saying that its like online casinos, If alot of casinos are going to chase him for winnings than can he claim the money he has lost at others?

His problem is that he is a well known player. There is no need to blacklist him, everyone in the business knows who he is. If he decided to ditch his fame and go in like a normal customer, he will not get the VIP pandering that allows this scheme to work.

He may also have trouble in poker due to other players not trusting that he can't read the backs of the cards being used, as the case has laid bare how he gained his advantage, which was recognising cards in a deck from the patterns on the back.

 

[Richas]

His problem is that he is a well known player. There is no need to blacklist him, everyone in the business knows who he is. If he decided to ditch his fame and go in like a normal customer, he will not get the VIP pandering that allows this scheme to work.

He may also have trouble in poker due to other players not trusting that he can't read the backs of the cards being used, as the case has laid bare how he gained his advantage, which was recognising cards in a deck from the patterns on the back.

They would be pretty paranoid poker players. First edge sorting is not really practical in poker where the cards are dealt and handled by all the players and the dealer. They spin when dealt, when muked and get turned by players. There is no way to reliably sort the deck. Second it was his accomplice who had the plan and the ability, Ivey was the distractor.

Poker does carry a risk of card marking as they are handled by players and cards can get damaged/marked accidentally too. No paranoid players tend to keep an eye out for that and ask for new/different cards. Sadly many casinos use some pretty old tatty cheap cards and are not always keen to help out the complaining player but even swopping one old tatty pack for a different one makes card reading harder.

 

[michielm1]

I was initially on Ivey's side, but there are some other factors in the case that weren't reported within the links from OP...

"He asked for a specific brand of playing cards, a shuffling machine, an Asian dealer and that the same card decks be used." Old / Expired Link

"The High Court heard how Ivey kept asking the dealer to change the packs until he and Sun found one with the flawed pattern, then announced that he wanted to stick with his ‘lucky’ pack. Then Ivey persuaded the dealer to rotate each of the ‘good’ baccarat cards (specifically sixes, sevens, eights and nines) as they were dealt. It was just a silly little superstition of his, he explained. It wasn’t. If a dealer had shuffled the cards by hand, it would have ruined the ruse. But a shuffling machine — which Ivey had demanded — doesn’t do that. It flips the shuffled cards 180 degrees, which meant that Ivey and Sun were able to recognise them quickly: the non-symmetrical pattern had gone to the other side. And of course he got the casino to use the same lucky pack night after night."

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IF he hadn't requested a specific brand (and deck) of cards (that he clearly knew had their printing off-set), and IF he hadn't requested a specific shuffling machine (that he knew arranged shuffled cards in a specific manner). IF he hadn't insisted the casino continue to use the pre-dealt cards they would typically scrap, and IF (as others have said) he hadn't influenced the dealer by telling them how to present the cards, then yeah, I'd still be crying foul by the casino. But not any more.

Chances are if he had 'only' limited his winnings to a smaller £ value, then he may have gotten away with it. But sorry Phil, you got greedy & in doing so, you allowed the casino to put the puzzle pieces together. Could it be called cheating? Perhaps not in the terms that some professional gamblers would define it, but there's absolutely no doubt the phrase 'advantage player' (i.e. the more polite version of the 'c' word) absolutely fits.

ok if this is what happened, it is clearly premeditated cheating. well full tilt black friday made his negative balance go away, millions of $$$ hmmmm

 

[spintee]

The thing is mate, every casino will probably no him, even the small times, Unless he puts on a wig, side burns and mastose than people will no him, If you had a casino would you let him play? Scamming is going on for years just because this 1s bought to light does not mean theres not no more out there

His problem is that he is a well known player. There is no need to blacklist him, everyone in the business knows who he is. If he decided to ditch his fame and go in like a normal customer, he will not get the VIP pandering that allows this scheme to work.

He may also have trouble in poker due to other players not trusting that he can't read the backs of the cards being used, as the case has laid bare how he gained his advantage, which was recognising cards in a deck from the patterns on the back.

 

[petro]

I think the only way a rich AP could beat the casino without being an expert Blackjack player / cardcounter (and without getting sued), is to ask for some kind of cashback on any losses that exceed $xx,xxx,xxx.

What you described has happened.

See:

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[t4llek]

ivey will not be banned from anywhere a dude that dumps something from 100.000 to a mill shooting craps (in an hour) is allways a welcome person at any casino in he world xD

 

[spoton]

Makes you wonder if he uses any kind of "tricks" while playing poker aswell.

 

[fun4all]

Bumping this thread because Ivey has been granted the right to appeal and it's ON again. Maybe Crockfords/Genting will be forced to pay the £8m they owe him after all....

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It looks very like he might win now in my opinion, when you read what the judge said.

Mr Ivey has now been granted permission to appeal after a judge ruled that his case raises an important question of law and has ‘a real prospect of success’.

 

[GrandMaster]

He has lost yet again:

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[theslotsking]

Do they still kick people out of casino's for counting cards? I would think its hard for them to prove your counting cards unless you have a electronic device.

Its kind of suprising if they do as even if your able to count cards it only marginally assists you. It does not predict the next cards out. With four decks in a shoes that's a lot of variables.