Payment Pending Period and Casino Rating

[AffGency]

I think you got this wrong. Casinos, like most merchants, has to wait for the credit card deposits to be available to them. This can take up to a week before they are released from the bank and end up in the casinos account.

why ? what did i get wrong ?

i never use CC to make a deposit , i use e-wallets

 

[pmutts]

Yes. Try going and opening a casino on that basis. Sorry but that's utterly ludicrous.
So, the casino would have no cash-flow. They wouldn't be able to use your deposit to pay the last winner and so-on.
Then imagine the fraud and chargebacks that would occur from losing players. KYC and finances would be effectively removed from the casinos' control.
Then what happens if a player won big (30k) and as per the casino's terms would need paying at say 10k a week for 3 weeks?
The player had deposited 5k so the casino would not be able to use that money for other winners until the 30k had been paid?
Your assumption is that most casinos are inherently dishonest and should not be trusted without nannying. Almost an insult to the casinos and reps on here.

Please for your sake don't try to run an online casino business.

With all due respect, I think you are way off on this one. If they do not have the money to cover immediate payment (within reason -- with max weekly withdrawals) they have NO business operating an Online Casino. If they do have to pay in installments, the player should be able to insist that the withdrawal be removed from pending status and irreversible until paid in full.

And yes dunover, we know what we are getting into when we deposit. Although with very few exceptions (Club World Group sometimes) here in the States do we EVER see a withdrawal pulled from "Pending/Reversible" status within 24 hours. In my view, this is not the point the OP is attempting to make. He's stating what he feels and what most other players feel--especially from the US. ONE REASON ALONE--In hopes it will be played back and sadly it so often is.

 

[AffGency]

OK, we agree that deposits DO form a casino's cash flow - it's just a question of how long the delay is before these deposits go in the pot. No arguments there from me. I mentioned Metroplay and Purple Lounge because you insinuated Costa Rica and Curacao were less safe than European LGA's. It turns out that ALL LGA's are effectively toothless, as these events show that despite their rules NO player's money is totally safe!
Yes, these casinos did lose their licences but what was the point? The crooks had already done a runner with the players' funds anyway so there were effectively no safeguards in place.

As for 24 hour pending, you know the rules before depositing. It's a free market. If a player doesn't like it, don't deposit there. A 24-hour pending site may have lower costs therefore better and more frequent bonuses. Tournaments too. I agree I'd like every site to pay fast 24/7 but it just isn't going to happen. 32red for example will have been hit far harder than other sites by the UK gaming tax, as they have at least 50% UK player base.

Yes, i didnt check 100% before, i just read they pay in few hours in few threads, but they changed it all... anyhow its a free market but still if its possible to change this .. it would be great, i never take any Bonus anyhow .. as i lost few times big wins


Anyhow .. another question, the Forum does not let me post before i read all my private messages in my Inbox ... how can I change this ?

thanks for any help

 

[zippy]

Once Bryan is back is it possible to get his updated view (if any) / leadership on this issue?

 

[citizenx]

problem is , it is easter monday in Malta and there is no way anyone is working .. bad timing a bit, but they normally pay you very fast even on weekends and public holidays

Fully appreciate that but they do have staff in. I think it would have been better if i'd been able to send my documents months ago to be honest.

You're right, they do always pay out quickly normally. I just feel a bit narked that its now approaching 24 hours which i think is excessive at any point in the year.

 

[pmutts]

To have even a prayer at 24 Hours . . .

I must be:

1) Playing at a Club World Casino
2) I must be playing on Sun, Mon, Tue, or early Wednesday.

It seems like no matter what it always manages to get held in pending over the weekend. A couple of Cocktails. The decision is made to just reverse $100. Another cocktail and another $100. Before you know it it's GONE. Just Sayin'

.

 

[Matti]

why ? what did i get wrong ?

i never use CC to make a deposit , i use e-wallets

OK, sorry. This of course doesn't apply for e-wallets. You however didn't state that the post was just about e-wallet deposits.

 

[Tirilej]

Once Bryan is back is it possible to get his updated view (if any) / leadership on this issue?

Of course you will. Either by sending him a pm with a link to this thread or by reporting one of the posts and ask that he respond.
People do often want his responce but forget to tell him where or why

 

[dunover]

With all due respect, I think you are way off on this one. If they do not have the money to cover immediate payment (within reason -- with max weekly withdrawals) they have NO business operating an Online Casino. If they do have to pay in installments, the player should be able to insist that the withdrawal be removed from pending status and irreversible until paid in full.
And yes dunover, we know what we are getting into when we deposit. Although with very few exceptions (Club World Group sometimes) here in the States do we EVER see a withdrawal pulled from "Pending/Reversible" status within 24 hours. In my view, this is not the point the OP is attempting to make. He's stating what he feels and what most other players feel--especially from the US. ONE REASON ALONE--In hopes it will be played back and sadly it so often is.

I'm not disagreeing with either of those points I bolded. In fact I wrote a much-thanked piece on exactly the philosophy behind reverse-periods:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...gs-at-32red-due-to-pending-withdrawals.65664/

My argument is solely that cash-flow regardless of delays is vital to any viable business casinos included. The deposits are their income, sole income. There has to be some provision for the unexpected, like a string of big hits and withdrawals therefore aside from deposits in hand there should be cash reserves made from previous profits on the balance sheet. This is obviously why many have instalments in their terms. Often the pending period allows for a casino that has been hit with large wins to accumulate the funds to pay. I think many would be surprised at how tight the margins are at some sites.

 

[zippy]

Of course you will. Either by sending him a pm with a link to this thread or by reporting one of the posts and ask that he respond.
People do often want his responce but forget to tell him where or why

I've sent Bryan a PM. Hopefully get a response and see what his view is....

 

[citizenx]

Guts are *normally* very good with withdrawl times - although they should be as they charge you for them.

However, yesterday I was required to send documents as i'd withdrawn over 2,300 EUR (I play in sterling).

Anyway, I sent them and nearly 24 hours later i'm still waiting. I checked yesterday how long this would take and was told that it would probably be tomorrow (i.e. today) and having just checked again was told "we'll get back to you today".

I'm really not very happy about this. All it takes is a few moments for someone to ensure they're satisfied with what they've been sent (and all other casinos have always been satisfied with my documents so have no reason to think Guts won't be).

Account now verified and payment received. Thank you Guts!

 

[hedgehok]

SLOW DOWN PLEASE:

honestly this thread grows so rapidly.

To the subject: There is no easy way to handle this because it's highly subjective.

A player who is not prone to reversals will weight a pending-period very little another (maybe compulsive) gambler will weight much more. It's up to everyone else to read how the rating-system works and if you don't like reversal times just don't play at that casino.
All MG-download casinos like 32red have a pending period and process their withdrawals after the pending period elapsed and then flush the withdrawal, then it often takes another day or two until the withdrawal is processed. That's at least inconvenient but it should not have an impact like over 1 rating-point when you try to be objective.

We are all old enough to gamble, let us also be old enough to do our necessary researching before start playing.
Moaning after reversals are done are not the way this works.

 

[citizenx]

SLOW DOWN PLEASE:

honestly this thread grows so rapidly.

To the subject: There is no easy way to handle this because it's highly subjective.

A player who is not prone to reversals will weight a pending-period very little another (maybe compulsive) gambler will weight much more. It's up to everyone else to read how the rating-system works and if you don't like reversal times just don't play at that casino.
All MG-download casinos like 32red have a pending period and process their withdrawals after the pending period elapsed and then flush the withdrawal, then it often takes another day or two until the withdrawal is processed. That's at least inconvenient but it should not have an impact like over 1 rating-point when you try to be objective.

We are all old enough to gamble, let us also be old enough to do our necessary researching before start playing.
Moaning after reversals are done are not the way this works.

I tend to agree. Personally, I only play casinos with a prompt payout record. Not just because of the possibility of reversing - if you do it, don't moan about it - its your choice.

I remember when I won $8,500 on Aladdinsgold last summer and reversed more of it than i'd have liked to on balance. That was my own fault but as a general rule, I don't do it.

I prefer fast payouts as I don't feel like i've really won til its in my neteller account (i.e. available for use as cash, for purchases or to deposit elsewhere).

Ultimately, the information is available in the casino listing. The only concern I have about that is - how up to date is the information? I can't seem to find a "last updated" field and I think that would be helpful.

 

[zippy]

SLOW DOWN PLEASE:

honestly this thread grows so rapidly.

To the subject: There is no easy way to handle this because it's highly subjective.

A player who is not prone to reversals will weight a pending-period very little another (maybe compulsive) gambler will weight much more. It's up to everyone else to read how the rating-system works and if you don't like reversal times just don't play at that casino.
All MG-download casinos like 32red have a pending period and process their withdrawals after the pending period elapsed and then flush the withdrawal, then it often takes another day or two until the withdrawal is processed. That's at least inconvenient but it should not have an impact like over 1 rating-point when you try to be objective.

We are all old enough to gamble, let us also be old enough to do our necessary researching before start playing.
Moaning after reversals are done are not the way this works.

Why even accept the fact there a reversal periods? Why not challenge them and say they are fundamentally unfair if you have won the money fairly. It's your money why do you have wait for it? Why should we be inconvenienced when withdrawing, when the casino is not when depositing.

This shouldn't be an issue about whether we can hold off long enough to not re-gamble during pending periods. There should be no pending periods, and if a casino does have them then their rating should be reduced.

It's easy to say don't play there if you don't like it. This attitude simply allows casino's to do what like...i.e. 32Red started with no weekend withdrawls, then pending periods, then no manual flushing, what next?

Why stand for things which work against the player?

 

[AffGency]

Why even accept the fact there a reversal periods? Why not challenge them and say they are fundamentally unfair if you have won the money fairly. It's your money why do you have wait for it? Why should we be inconvenienced when withdrawing, when the casino is not when depositing.

This shouldn't be an issue about whether we can hold off long enough to not re-gamble during pending periods. There should be no pending periods, and if a casino does have them then their rating should be reduced.

It's easy to say don't play there if you don't like it. This attitude simply allows casino's to do what like...i.e. 32Red started with no weekend withdrawls, then pending periods, then no manual flushing, what next?

Why stand for things which work against the player?

I think you are right Sir

If we don't act before it gets out of hand and why not reducing their rate if it helps ?

otherwise 32Red and all other Casinos should come and say, Guys if we don't do it we need to close down !!! Which i think it's not the case

 

[Jono777]

My withdrawal has sat pending at 32 Red since Thursday and until now this is the 1st time I've even thought about it.

What a good boy I am

 

[zippy]

My withdrawal has sat pending at 32 Red since Thursday and until now this is the 1st time I've even thought about it.

What a good boy I am

Don't log in...you'll probably end up playing and losing....

 

[Valhalla]

The only reason any casino has a pending period is in the hope players will reverse their withdrawal and subsequently lose.
Because they've already been mentioned here, I'll say - 32Red stopped doing weekend payouts, but then realised they still weren't making enough money, so stopped manual flushing, but still decided it wasn't earning them enough and finally added a 24-hour pending period as well (I'm not sure what order those last 2 changes were made because I jumped ship long before that).

I can't imagine how much they've earned on the strength of "weak" players who still love the site but don't have the willpower to wait out the pending period, and often the entire weekend and even holidays as well.

I don't blame 32Red of course. They were the standard bearer for years, but the casino industry has reached a saturation point with countless browser-based multi-platform casinos, many of whom payout before 32Red have even looked at a player's withdrawal.
I'm sure that alone cost them a lot of customers, what with them being MG-only and well behind the times. So they had to make changes to cut costs and increase revenue. What better way than to implement an archaic payment system that sees the players do the cost-cutting for them? Saves them improving the casino and trying to move forward with the times.
That sort of thing would only cost them money, after all

 

[dunover]

The only reason any casino has a pending period is in the hope players will reverse their withdrawal and subsequently lose.
Because they've already been mentioned here, I'll say - 32Red stopped doing weekend payouts, but then realised they still weren't making enough money, so stopped manual flushing, but still decided it wasn't earning them enough and finally added a 24-hour pending period as well (I'm not sure what order those last 2 changes were made because I jumped ship long before that).

I can't imagine how much they've earned on the strength of "weak" players who still love the site but don't have the willpower to wait out the pending period, and often the entire weekend and even holidays as well.

I don't blame 32Red of course. They were the standard bearer for years, but the casino industry has reached a saturation point with countless browser-based multi-platform casinos, many of whom payout before 32Red have even looked at a player's withdrawal.
I'm sure that alone cost them a lot of customers, what with them being MG-only and well behind the times. So they had to make changes to cut costs and increase revenue. What better way than to implement an archaic payment system that sees the players do the cost-cutting for them? Saves them improving the casino and trying to move forward with the times.
That sort of thing would only cost them money, after all

As I said unlike many multi-platform sites 32red have a majority UK player base so have been hit harder by the UK's new revenues tax. Shareholders demand maintaining the value of their shares and the dividends. Therefore to nullify the effects of the tax they do that. No need for expensive weekend payment teams on weekend rates.
Reading on from the above facts, removal of flushing is the big tell here rather than ending weekend cash-outs - that could be done by CS who are there at weekends anyway so would have incurred no extra expense. Thus the ONLY benefit must be that a proportion of those whom would have flushed indeed ARE losing their pending withdrawals back.

 

[hedgehok]

As I said unlike many multi-platform sites 32red have a majority UK player base so have been hit harder by the UK's new revenues tax. Shareholders demand maintaining the value of their shares and the dividends. Therefore to nullify the effects of the tax they do that. No need for expensive weekend payment teams on weekend rates.
Reading on from the above facts, removal of flushing is the big tell here rather than ending weekend cash-outs - that could be done by CS who are there at weekends anyway so would have incurred no extra expense. Thus the ONLY benefit must be that a proportion of those whom would have flushed indeed ARE losing their pending withdrawals back.

Bingo!

The only reason any casino has a pending period is in the hope players will reverse their withdrawal and subsequently lose.
Because they've already been mentioned here, I'll say - 32Red stopped doing weekend payouts, but then realised they still weren't making enough money, so stopped manual flushing, but still decided it wasn't earning them enough and finally added a 24-hour pending period as well (I'm not sure what order those last 2 changes were made because I jumped ship long before that)

Of course reversals of "weak" players are a big factor, but certainly not the only one.
Instant flushing often leads to players making just a new deposit a couple of hours later because they are bored leading to increasing transaction costs with payment providers.
And as dunover mentioned they were somewhat forced to compensate for increasing tax-payments.

 

[Valhalla]

those whom would have flushed indeed ARE losing their pending withdrawals back.

I would have been one of those players mate
I don't have the patience to wait out a pending period, and certainly not a weekend and holiday (like this weekend).
But then, because so many casinos do payments better, I don't have to. I just play elsewhere

EDIT - dunover and hedgehok; yes of course the increased tax payments, I failed to mention those to begin with.
I just think the extra cost would be covered by the increased revenue coming from happy and returning players. Pick your poison from 32Red's point of view I guess, but they've gone with the one that "apparently" hurts the player.

 

[horseplayer]

SLOW DOWN PLEASE:

honestly this thread grows so rapidly.

To the subject: There is no easy way to handle this because it's highly subjective.

A player who is not prone to reversals will weight a pending-period very little another (maybe compulsive) gambler will weight much more. It's up to everyone else to read how the rating-system works and if you don't like reversal times just don't play at that casino.
All MG-download casinos like 32red have a pending period and process their withdrawals after the pending period elapsed and then flush the withdrawal, then it often takes another day or two until the withdrawal is processed. That's at least inconvenient but it should not have an impact like over 1 rating-point when you try to be objective.

We are all old enough to gamble, let us also be old enough to do our necessary researching before start playing.
Moaning after reversals are done are not the way this works.

I see no reason that highlighting withdrawal pending times for Accredited casinos cannot be implemented. I'm certain that withdrawal policies are one of the most important aspects looked at before any of our members decide to make a deposit, compulsive gambler or not.

I mentioned before that I'd like to see an Accredited Plus section ranking our casinos by pending periods. That doesn't penalize Accredited casinos for their BOGUS pending times but does recognize those that aren't abusing the predatory practice. It has become especially bad for those of us in the states.

 

[hedgehok]

I see no reason that highlighting withdrawal pending times for Accredited casinos cannot be implemented. I'm certain that withdrawal policies are one of the most important aspects looked at before any of our members decide to make a deposit, compulsive gambler or not.

I mentioned before that I'd like to see an Accredited Plus section ranking our casinos by pending periods. That doesn't penalize Accredited casinos for their BOGUS pending times but does recognize those that aren't abusing the predatory practice. It has become especially bad for those of us in the states.

It is mentioned at their review:

Cons
-No weekend payouts
-No manual flushing

Still, I tend to agree, it would be even more clear to state how long this pending period (reversal time) actually is. It is a big difference to wait from Thursday to Monday just for the flushing or a couple of hours like in many browser-based casinos.

 

[Simmo!]

You will notice that aside from 32red due to their safety, customer service and historical achievements that virtually ALL the 9+ rated sites actually DO have very fast withdrawals so obviously Bryan must have factored this in.

Just wanted to chime in here as I devised the original ratings system for my sites and Bryan applied it to CM with a couple of modifications. But essentially it is the same so here is a bit of an explanation.

Firstly, it is intended as a comparative rating. IE: compared to other casinos. So by saying one has a 8.9 rating and one has a 9.1 rating simply means that one is seen as ever so slightly better than the other. It can never be too exact, not least because where a player lives can often dictate what they get from a casino.

Secondly, the rating system is automated based on a formula. Every casino starts with 10.0 and then points are removed depending on what they offer. So a casino with a 48hr pending will have more points removed that one with a 24 hour pending period.

These are the factors that affect the formula rating:

Licensing jurisdiction
No of Years Operating
Advertised Cashout time
Average Pending time
Weekend cashouts
Weekly/Monthly cashout limits
Manual flushing
Range of games offered.

In Bryan's case I think he also adds a manual adjustment for the number of PABS and how they are resolved.

Hope that adds some clarification.

One last note: we all know most players hate reverse pending and the reasons are obvious. FYI I also agree with the OP in that this should not exist - or at least be a choice - and I choose to play casinos that don't impose this. But just to help understand why these are common, it has a side-effect for the casinos in that it offers a substantial saving by reducing processing costs, most notably on players who constantly deposit and withdraw small amounts and use bonuses. These players are often not profitable for a casino as the costs become more significant (up to 10% of the deposit and 10% of the withdrawal depending on the method).

 

[pmutts]

I posted this on the wrong thread. . .

I copied it over to the correct thread:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/ddos-threats-and-attacks.66669/?t=66669

Moderator, please delete this posting.

Thanks!