Payment Pending Period and Casino Rating

[Priesthill]

Well, somehow I can live with a pending period of up to 48 hours - or let's say: I got used to it - as long as the casino does not start foooling around after that so-called pending period has passed.,..

 

[shamr]

There's nothing more exhilarating than walking into a casino, playing big, winning big, and walking out with cold hard cash.

 

[shamr]

Don't log in...you'll probably end up playing and losing....

This.

 

[shamr]

I must be:

1) Playing at a Club World Casino
2) I must be playing on Sun, Mon, Tue, or early Wednesday.

It seems like no matter what it always manages to get held in pending over the weekend. A couple of Cocktails. The decision is made to just reverse $100. Another cocktail and another $100. Before you know it it's GONE. Just Sayin'

.

..Just started playing, but I like club world. I requested a withdrawal from them for 500$. How long is your typical wait? What was your longest?

 

[Harry_BKK]

As I said unlike many multi-platform sites 32red have a majority UK player base so have been hit harder by the UK's new revenues tax. Shareholders demand maintaining the value of their shares and the dividends. Therefore to nullify the effects of the tax they do that. No need for expensive weekend payment teams on weekend rates.
Reading on from the above facts, removal of flushing is the big tell here rather than ending weekend cash-outs - that could be done by CS who are there at weekends anyway so would have incurred no extra expense. Thus the ONLY benefit must be that a proportion of those whom would have flushed indeed ARE losing their pending withdrawals back.

Sorry Dunover, but i am inclined to say: bo****s .

Maybe explaining how the system works helps to understand my opinion. For every spin/bet we make a certain portion goes to Microgaming/Net-Ent etc. Since tax on gambling is common in many countries this has been factored into the "price" a casino is paying for the bet to the providers. Hence, the money a casino is left with after "paying" the providers have these taxes already incorporated ever since online gambling became mainstream on the net. This means that the new "UK revenue tax" was absorbed already years ago into the cost of running any casino.

Otherwise a casino would not have made any profit in countries where this kind of taxes have been in place for years now.

Putting this as one of the main reasons to stop flushing, stop paying on weekends, introducing pending periods is just plain bu****it. The only reason for these measures is: GREED

The same goes for the cost on transactions to/from webwallets/cards etc. It has been factored into the "prices" casinos pay to the providers for every bet from the beginning and for the big guys like 32RED, Ladbrokes etc they are nowhere near 10%, they are in the very low single digits. If that really is a problem then they could offer to pay instantly without pending period for a fee like Guts is doing it. I'll happily pay 2.50$ if i know that my withdrawal will hit my Neteller/Ecopayz account in minutes.

To emphasize why it is GREED can somebody explain this: for the last 3 months the 50% and 100% DOTD at 32RED are always available on Thursday and Friday. Why??? Because most players will deposit late afternoon after work, hence any cashin from that play will be pending until Monday, screaming at the player every time he/she opens the banking page: "you have xxx.xx available for reversal"

Last but not least the pending period at 32RED is not "usually around 24 hours" as they claim in their T&C's. It is 24 - 88 hours, with a bank holiday on Friday or Monday it is 24-102 hours. It is not like they take the withdrawals out of pending on weekends, no, they are left there pending until the next banking day, usually Monday. So "usually around 24 hours" is a plain lie and misleading to any new player. And the funny part is that taking withdrawals out of pending can be done automatically after a set time without any human intervention, so why is is not done every 24 hours?

Conclusion is the same: GREED

Any casino having these kind of measures in place does not deserve a top rating, no matter how big, good, fantastic, friendly...whatever... they are.

 

[zippy]

Sorry Dunover, but i am inclined to say: bo****s .

Maybe explaining how the system works helps to understand my opinion. For every spin/bet we make a certain portion goes to Microgaming/Net-Ent etc. Since tax on gambling is common in many countries this has been factored into the "price" a casino is paying for the bet to the providers. Hence, the money a casino is left with after "paying" the providers have these taxes already incorporated ever since online gambling became mainstream on the net. This means that the new "UK revenue tax" was absorbed already years ago into the cost of running any casino.

Otherwise a casino would not have made any profit in countries where this kind of taxes have been in place for years now.

Putting this as one of the main reasons to stop flushing, stop paying on weekends, introducing pending periods is just plain bu****it. The only reason for these measures is: GREED

The same goes for the cost on transactions to/from webwallets/cards etc. It has been factored into the "prices" casinos pay to the providers for every bet from the beginning and for the big guys like 32RED, Ladbrokes etc they are nowhere near 10%, they are in the very low single digits. If that really is a problem then they could offer to pay instantly without pending period for a fee like Guts is doing it. I'll happily pay 2.50$ if i know that my withdrawal will hit my Neteller/Ecopayz account in minutes.

To emphasize why it is GREED can somebody explain this: for the last 3 months the 50% and 100% DOTD at 32RED are always available on Thursday and Friday. Why??? Because most players will deposit late afternoon after work, hence any cashin from that play will be pending until Monday, screaming at the player every time he/she opens the banking page: "you have xxx.xx available for reversal"

Last but not least the pending period at 32RED is not "usually around 24 hours" as they claim in their T&C's. It is 24 - 88 hours, with a bank holiday on Friday or Monday it is 24-102 hours. It is not like they take the withdrawals out of pending on weekends, no, they are left there pending until the next banking day, usually Monday. So "usually around 24 hours" is a plain lie and misleading to any new player. And the funny part is that taking withdrawals out of pending can be done automatically after a set time without any human intervention, so why is is not done every 24 hours?

Conclusion is the same: GREED

I completely agree with you...

 

[AffGency]

Perfect explained harry

I also need to say i got my cashout yesterday from 32Red .. but i needed to freeze my account for 72 hours as I know myself best

For top rated casinos it should be a must offering instant cash outs or in few hours ... we could also look into what 32Red had in their pockets after taxes ... im just too lazy now , but im sure they are not in the red

 

[Harry_BKK]

Perfect explained harry

I also need to say i got my cashout yesterday from 32Red .. but i needed to freeze my account for 72 hours as I know myself best

For top rated casinos it should be a must offering instant cash outs or in few hours ... we could also look into what 32Red had in their pockets after taxes ... im just too lazy now , but im sure they are not in the red

Net gaming revenue for 2014 up 26% compared to 2013
Profits for 2014 up 49% compared to 2013
First 20 days in January 2015 revenues up by 31% compared to same period in 2014

Source: www.32redplc.com

I said once in a different thread that another casino group increased their revenues by 30% when they introduced a few years ago the same measures as 32RED did in the past few months. And if you look at the number for the first 20 days of January 2015 that number is spot on.

 

[Finn]

Sorry Dunover, but i am inclined to say: bo****s .

Maybe explaining how the system works helps to understand my opinion. For every spin/bet we make a certain portion goes to Microgaming/Net-Ent etc. Since tax on gambling is common in many countries this has been factored into the "price" a casino is paying for the bet to the providers. Hence, the money a casino is left with after "paying" the providers have these taxes already incorporated ever since online gambling became mainstream on the net. This means that the new "UK revenue tax" was absorbed already years ago into the cost of running any casino.

Otherwise a casino would not have made any profit in countries where this kind of taxes have been in place for years now.

Large taxes on gross gambling revenue have not been that common for that long.

For example. In 2011, Unibet paid betting duties only in the jurisdictions of Malta, Italy and France. The betting duties were just 3 million GBP, 2% of their gambling revenue.

In 2014, Unibet paid betting duties only in the jurisdictions of Malta, Italy, France, Denmark, Belgium, Estonia, UK and Australia. The betting duties were just 23.6 million GBP, 7.5% of their gambling revenue.

UK tax on gambling revenue is 15%, Gibraltar tax on gambling revenue is 1%, Malta jurisdiction which can be even cheaper than Gibraltar depending on what licenses you have, all Malta licenses are capped at maximum 466k€ tax per year, which can for large operators result in effective tax of less than 0.5% on gambling revenue. For large well run casinos, the profit is usually third or less of gambling revenue. So if all of your customer base existed under Gibraltar jurisdiction or Malta jurisdiction, and then they all got moved to UK jurisdiction, that 15% tax on gambling revenue could effectively translate into 40-50% tax on profits if you didn't adjust in anyway.

In other jurisdictions, Belgium, Denmark, France, etc, operators tend to get much more from the government in terms of exclusivity, their procedures keep operator lists shorter than in UK.

Belgium

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France

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Denmark
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For 11% tax on gambling revenue in Belgium, Unibet and other license holders get pretty nice deal.

There are only 7 A+ license holders. But not all these are full fledged casinos, Pokerstars is poker only. Of those 7, only 4 seem to have larger slot selection. Bwin has 80 slots, mostly neverheard-slots, Ladbrokes has only Playtech, Casino777 has about 300 slots, IGT, some NetEnt. Unibet is the only operator with almost all of NetEnt and only operator with any MicroGaming, WMS and AshGaming slots the only operator with Mega Moolah and Mega Fortune Dreams. Unlike UK regulation, Belgian regulation probably increases the profits of the operators, many of them are the only operators providing certain games in the whole country. 2 of 5 Mega Fortune Dreams jackpots have gone to the Unibet Belgium players, which is also indication of how well they are doing there. One Mega Fortune Dreams has gone to Netherlands, bringing the Benelux share of MFD jackpots to 60%, maybe in future we will hear more of the Nordic-Benelux conspiracy instead of the Nordic conspiracy.

 

[silcnlayc]

It's a business people, get over it. You don't like the terms, don't play. If you don't like the waiting period, go back to land based casinos. They all are out to make a profit, not cater to you.

As long as they are an honest bunch and PAY,,,be grateful. So many have had their winnings taken, over the most trivial reasons, and here is a thread already 6 pages long over a 24 hour PENDING period??? Dear lord....maybe it's time for all casinos to have the same pending periods as the USA does, up to 30 days...Let's see all of you wrap your heads around THAT!

Oh my....ruffled feathers over 24 hour period...I can't wrap MY head around THAT!!!!!

.

 

[Harry_BKK]

It's a business people, get over it. You don't like the terms, don't play. If you don't like the waiting period, go back to land based casinos. They all are out to make a profit, not cater to you.

As long as they are an honest bunch and PAY,,,be grateful. So many have had their winnings taken, over the most trivial reasons, and here is a thread already 6 pages long over a 24 hour PENDING period??? Dear lord....maybe it's time for all casinos to have the same pending periods as the USA does, up to 30 days...Let's see all of you wrap your heads around THAT!

Oh my....ruffled feathers over 24 hour period...I can't wrap MY head around THAT!!!!!

.

Sorry, but you should read the thread more carefully. The discussion is whether a casino with pending periods, no flushing, no weekend payments deserves the same high rating as casinos who are paying in minutes and that 24/7/365.

And yes, we all know that it is a business.

And stop comparisons with the US, it just does not apply.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

At a time when there are all these tv/radio adverts about responsible gambling being shown (in the uk), it's bizarre these pending periods are implemented, as we all know (unless someone can tell me otherwise) that they only serve 1 purpose - to tempt you into reversing your withdrawal. Baffling.

 

[Jono777]

Well I've just given myself a 'pat on the back'

Just experienced my longest 'pending period' ever, basically Thursday to yesterday at 32 Red, only £100 but will be in the bank later and the temptation was hardly there at all!!

(Got to admit redecorating Kitchen top to bottom helped )

Still say pending periods are partially down to self control but I do agree that in this modern day and age there is no real need for them to exist at all

 

[Jono777]

To emphasize why it is GREED can somebody explain this: for the last 3 months the 50% and 100% DOTD at 32RED are always available on Thursday and Friday. Why??? Because most players will deposit late afternoon after work, hence any cashin from that play will be pending until Monday, screaming at the player every time he/she opens the banking page: "you have xxx.xx available for reversal"

This is a good point - defo the Friday 100% thing which I too noticed weeks back, 32 Red will always be my fave due to numerous positives which by far out weigh any small negatives (this pending lark), better the devil you know n all that. (well unless they stop guzzling my deposits of late for piss poor game time )

 

[sueyh]

It's a business people, get over it. You don't like the terms, don't play. If you don't like the waiting period, go back to land based casinos. They all are out to make a profit, not cater to you.

As long as they are an honest bunch and PAY,,,be grateful. So many have had their winnings taken, over the most trivial reasons, and here is a thread already 6 pages long over a 24 hour PENDING period??? Dear lord....maybe it's time for all casinos to have the same pending periods as the USA does, up to 30 days...Let's see all of you wrap your heads around THAT!

Oh my....ruffled feathers over 24 hour period...I can't wrap MY head around THAT!!!!!

.

Yes, it is a business. That's why we are allowed to complain about them. We are a customer. We give them our hard earning money.

There are many other websites with the forum about other business like a hotel, a restaurant such as tripadvisor. There are many complaints about hotels, restaurants there. If we are allowed to complain about the waiting time in the restaurant, surly we are allowed to complain about the waiting time for the withdrawal in the casino. I don't see why the casino need to be treated differently from other business when it comes about customer satisfaction.

Yes, they are here to make a profit. That's why their first priority should be what the customer wants. Business means making a customer happy to get money from the customer as long as what the customer wants is reasonable. Thinking about we can get "fast cash-out" in many casinos, asking "fast cash-out" is quite reasonable request.

You said something about playing online gamble in US and I don't think that's fair. Just because people in US have to endure slow withdrawal, it doesn't mean the rest of the world have to when we can access fast withdrawal without any problem. For example, once I had to wait for more than 2 hours for the pizza to be delivered to my hotel room in some place and that was average time to wait there, it doesn't mean you have to wait for 2 hours in US.

My personal opinion about 32red? Great place. I like them. I like the dish of the day, also I think their CS is one of the most friendly CS, but my deposit to 32red is really minimal because I don't like their pending period. Hope they can change their withdrawal process, but I don't think they will, so probably my deposit to 32red will stay as minimal.

 

[silcnlayc]

We , also had quick turnarounds when we had web wallets. Times are changing. I have said it before many times. Casinos are learning how to hold on to their monies for longer periods of times. I can guarantee they have not lost any business on either side of the world due to the delays or prolonging payment periods. It is the same on both sides of the world. It is called online gambling and the processes on this side of the world is filtering down to your side of the world, so, yes, I can compare, because you ARE complaining as we did to no avail when it started happening to us.

My payouts used to hit my account in 24 to 48 hours for years....then....something changes (UIGEA) and casinos found out...wow...holding on to money makes me more liquid...maybe I should try it on the other side of the world...and so they have...slowly creeping into the delay of payment from 24 hours...to who knows what next..Are you willing to stop playing because of this?? Of course not, and casinos know this.

.

 

[Harry_BKK]

maybe I should try it on the other side of the world...and so they have...slowly creeping into the delay of payment from 24 hours...to who knows what next..Are you willing to stop playing because of this?? Of course not, and casinos know this.

.

Not really true, to be honest. It is quite the contrary outside the US. Every new browser based multi-platform casino that opened in the past 2 years or so has as standard payments in less than 24 hrs with no pending period and that 24/7/365. In fact, there are now some casinos where withdrawals to webwallets are paid between instant - less than 2hrs, e.g. Guts, Videslots, Redbet, Energy, Betspin to name a few.

Only MG download casinos introduced the pending periods, stopped flushing and weekend payments. There are now only very few which still flush but none of them has weekend payments.

And yes, i stop playing or at least reduce my deposits to a bare minimum at casinos with pending periods etc. There are plenty of options out there were payments are made quickly.

 

[Simmo!]

Are you willing to stop playing because of this?? Of course not, and casinos know this.

Where I find a casino with > 24hrs with no flushing then yes, there is no way I will become a long-term regular. I occasionally play at a casino with a <=24 pending time but my solution now is when that happens, while my money is in pending, I play at another casino until it's cleared.

The casinos know it's a bit of a trade-off between (saving processing costs + players playing winnings back) VS. (players who won't play). I suspect the former is more valuable than the latter or else they would have ditched it or at least offer a choice/flushing.

Those that don't have a pending have a competitive advantage but at a cost. Swings and roundabouts but as has been mentioned, there are so many casinos now that in most cases, a player can find the games they like at a casino with no pending time - or at least one that will flush - if you want to.

I test new casinos all the time but the 4 casinos I call my "casinos of choice" and where I play 90% of my funds, they either have no pending time or they flush immediately. That's what I want, that's what they give me and that's why I lose most of money there

 

[Tirilej]

Yes, it is a business. That's why we are allowed to complain about them. We are a customer. We give them our hard earning money.

There are many other websites with the forum about other business like a hotel, a restaurant such as tripadvisor. There are many complaints about hotels, restaurants there. If we are allowed to complain about the waiting time in the restaurant, surly we are allowed to complain about the waiting time for the withdrawal in the casino. I don't see why the casino need to be treated differently from other business when it comes about customer satisfaction.

Yes, they are here to make a profit. That's why their first priority should be what the customer wants. Business means making a customer happy to get money from the customer as long as what the customer wants is reasonable. Thinking about we can get "fast cash-out" in many casinos, asking "fast cash-out" is quite reasonable request.

You said something about playing online gamble in US and I don't think that's fair. Just because people in US have to endure slow withdrawal, it doesn't mean the rest of the world have to when we can access fast withdrawal without any problem. For example, once I had to wait for more than 2 hours for the pizza to be delivered to my hotel room in some place and that was average time to wait there, it doesn't mean you have to wait for 2 hours in US.

My personal opinion about 32red? Great place. I like them. I like the dish of the day, also I think their CS is one of the most friendly CS, but my deposit to 32red is really minimal because I don't like their pending period. Hope they can change their withdrawal process, but I don't think they will, so probably my deposit to 32red will stay as minimal.

True but this thread was a question to Bryan on why some casinos have such high points even though they pay so slow, and shouldn't he make the system like they wanted it, and so on.
It's one thing to ask questions to the host of this forum and another thing to complain about a casinos cashouts time.

Instead it has again turned into another bashfest of 32Red.
Some people have posted more negative posts about them then their total posts in this forum.
If I had a store and I knew one of my customers was talking so much dirt behind my back I would never let them enter again.

 

[Harry_BKK]

True but this thread was a question to Bryan on why some casinos have such high points even though they pay so slow, and shouldn't he make the system like they wanted it, and so on.
It's one thing to ask questions to the host of this forum and another thing to complain about a casinos cashouts time.

Instead it has again turned into another bashfest of 32Red.
Some people have posted more negative posts about them then their total posts in this forum.
If I had a store and I knew one of my customers was talking so much dirt behind my back I would never let them enter again.

Nope, it wasn't. Here the last part of the OP's post:

What do you guys think?

Thanks
Zippy

And no, it is not another bashfest...32RED just happen to be the last one to introduce the pending periods and the stop on flushing and at the same time pretty much all CM members play or have played at 32RED. Should there be any other doing the same now, then they would get the most criticism.

 

[Jono777]

Good point ^^ However unfortunately businesses cannot be super choosy over their customers nowadays.

As long as a customers sticks to the T&C's of a casino whether posting negatives or not I'm sure they will still 'welcome' their deposits.

There is so much competition about now (in fact too much!) casinos cannot be 'over picky' because a particular customer has had a few moans about them, even if these are repetitive, annoying moans

 

[Tirilej]

Good point ^^ However unfortunately businesses cannot be super choosy over their customers nowadays.

As long as a customers sticks to the T&C's of a casino whether posting negatives or not I'm sure they will still 'welcome' their deposits.

There is so much competition about now (in fact too much!) casinos cannot be 'over picky' because a particular customer has had a few moans about them, even if these are repetitive, annoying moans

Yes they can and I know several that do ask their customers to take a hike.
A few moans are perfectly ok in my eyes. I can do that myself. It's when they gets repited at every opportunity that it gets to be too much.

 

[AffGency]

True but this thread was a question to Bryan on why some casinos have such high points even though they pay so slow, and shouldn't he make the system like they wanted it, and so on.
It's one thing to ask questions to the host of this forum and another thing to complain about a casinos cashouts time.

Instead it has again turned into another bashfest of 32Red.
Some people have posted more negative posts about them then their total posts in this forum.
If I had a store and I knew one of my customers was talking so much dirt behind my back I would never let them enter again.

than you better dont open a store if u dont want to listen to your customers who make you a living

 

[Matti]

than you better dont open a store if u dont want to listen to your customers who make you a living

Of course casinos, or a shopkeeper for that matter, can tell a customer that they are not wanted anymore. Has nothing to do with not listening to your customers.

My guess is that repeatedly abusive language towards CS/staff is the most common one.

Other reasons can be fraudulent behaviuor, Bonus abuse and even non profitable customers.

 

[AffGency]

Of course casinos, or a shopkeeper for that matter, can tell a customer that they are not wanted anymore. Has nothing to do with not listening to your customers.

My guess is that repeatedly abusive language towards CS/staff is the most common one.

Other reasons can be fraudulent behaviuor, Bonus abuse and even non profitable customers.

he said: he wants to kick customers who talk bad about him not that their are unprofitable or steal from him only

But as you say, the casino could kick out everyone or can kick out everyone as they wish, thats not how you run a business

 

[The Dude]

Hi All,

In regards to the operational standards that accredited casino's are measured on I think there needs to be a greater emphasis placed on timely payments.

There really should not be any payment pending period when making a withdrawl. There is no pending period when witdrawing from land based casino's, so why do we tolerate it from online casinos? If you have won the money fairly then there is no absolutely no reason for casino's to place a pending period, other than to encourage you to re-gamble.

I will call out 32Red who have a pending period of 24hrs excluding weekends and no manually flushing, which means if you withdrew money late on a Friday night, then the payment would not be processed until Tuesday (3 days later). Yet this casino has a 9.1 rating....

Any casino that has a payment pending period should have their rating reduced drastically.

What do you guys think?

Thanks
Zippy

Finally, I'm back.

Like Simmo mentioned, the rating system is based on a formula which factors in a number of things. We could change the formula, but then it would affect all of the casinos across the board. So why bother? Alles ist relativ.

32Red is still in the 9+ range mainly because of their outstanding service and support, player philosophy, responsiveness, and fairness when it comes to complaints. They are pretty much maxed out on their Meister points category. It's unfortunate that their payouts take longer, and I am sure they are aware of the negative response that they get for this. But fast payouts aren't everything. This is why we have an accumulative point system.

Which gives me an idea: maybe what I could do is have the points visually quantified - something like this:

Jurisdiction: ****
Software: *****
Withdrawal Limits: *****
Reverse time: **
Payout time: **
Weekend payout: *
Flushing: *
Publicly traded:*****
Time established: *****
Meister Points: *****

Something like this could be beneficial for everyone. Players would see where the points are the highest; casinos would see where they might make improvements. This may take some work since it wouldn't be automated, unless Simmo...

 

[mac72]

I think that would be a great idea.I also think that the Casino reps should ensure that the information on their reviews on this site reflect their 'current' position in relation to how they are operating their business?
If they for instance allow flushing and that is reflected in their review but then remove that facility i really feel they should inform Brian directly of that or any other change (that is mentioned in the review) so that the info on Casinomeister is current.After all many players (myself included) make their decisions on where to play based on the reviews Brian takes the time to put together.What can then happen is a player who goes to cashout finds there is no flush facility/cashout times are longer etc. etc. and problems occur.Surely it is in the operators intrests when they obviously get a benefit from new signups because of their positive reviews (which are hard earned) not to let themselves down because things might have changed since the review was made and haven't been updated?
I've played recently at a few sites where the position stated on the review wasn't the current position and i think the onus for that needs to rest with the operator (or at least those operators who have active reps on here). It would make things a whole lot easier.

 

[Dinahnana]

Finally, I'm back.

Like Simmo mentioned, the rating system is based on a formula which factors in a number of things. We could change the formula, but then it would affect all of the casinos across the board. So why bother? Alles ist relativ.

32Red is still in the 9+ range mainly because of their outstanding service and support, player philosophy, responsiveness, and fairness when it comes to complaints. They are pretty much maxed out on their Meister points category. It's unfortunate that their payouts take longer, and I am sure they are aware of the negative response that they get for this. But fast payouts aren't everything. This is why we have an accumulative point system.

Which gives me an idea: maybe what I could do is have the points visually quantified - something like this:

Jurisdiction: ****
Software: *****
Withdrawal Limits: *****
Reverse time: **
Payout time: **
Weekend payout: *
Flushing: *
Publicly traded:*****
Time established: *****
Meister Points: *****

Something like this could be beneficial for everyone. Players would see where the points are the highest; casinos would see where they might make improvements. This may take some work since it wouldn't be automated, unless Simmo...

I think that this is a great idea:notworthy Everything a player needs to know at a glance.

 

[The Dude]

One down, a crap load more to go. You guys are keeping me busy
https://www.casinomeister.com/online-casinos/reviews/32red/

 

[dunover]

Finally, I'm back.

Like Simmo mentioned, the rating system is based on a formula which factors in a number of things. We could change the formula, but then it would affect all of the casinos across the board. So why bother? Alles ist relativ.

32Red is still in the 9+ range mainly because of their outstanding service and support, player philosophy, responsiveness, and fairness when it comes to complaints. They are pretty much maxed out on their Meister points category. It's unfortunate that their payouts take longer, and I am sure they are aware of the negative response that they get for this. But fast payouts aren't everything. This is why we have an accumulative point system.

Which gives me an idea: maybe what I could do is have the points visually quantified - something like this:

Jurisdiction: ****
Software: *****
Withdrawal Limits: *****
Reverse time: **
Payout time: **
Weekend payout: *
Flushing: *
Publicly traded:*****
Time established: *****
Meister Points: *****

Something like this could be beneficial for everyone. Players would see where the points are the highest; casinos would see where they might make improvements. This may take some work since it wouldn't be automated, unless Simmo...[/QUOTE]

It'll keep him off of Thunderstruck for a day or two......

Great idea though. Give a minus to all sites that have Netent games too...