pay out rates of a rival casino

gamblingmace

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Location
europa
today I received an email by a rival casino that told me this:

Quote:

"Our reports for the month of October 2009 show something quite unprecedented. The average payout rates for all our games taken together are at:

99.19% Average Pay Out Rates!

We have a few players with over $30,000 balances, including Mr. xxx from xxx that has won over $70,000 playing slots. Congratulations to all our new winners!

In case you are curious to know which games are loose, here they are:



Spy Game at 121.73%
Scary Rich 2 at 138.20%
Psychedelic Sixties at 160.18%
Rock On at 155.28%%
Scary Rich at 115.11%%
Grandma's Attic at 137.32%
Winter Wonders at 117.34%
Click on any of the Games Above and start playing Instantly! No Download Required

Those are just a few of the games over 100%. We have at least 10 more slots over 100% payout rates. It's seems it is THE time to cash in at xxx Casino."

End of quote.

I have removed the names as they dont matter. But can these pay out rates really be true? What do the experts think about it?
 

hippo925

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Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Location
so cal
those numbers should theoretically be absolutely possible though they may not seem consisitent with our own observations. In fact, if you think about it.... it would be more odd if the payback at any casino is ALWAYS near the published payback percentage because that would mean the casino never experiences the type of variance that players are supposed to expect. You would think that a casino also has up and down variance, though of course it would never be as drastic as individual player's experiences.

Also, you cannot know how skewed those results are because of other factors, like one player with a huge bankroll that totally skewed the results for this one month or the effect of bonuses (maybe a bunch of players deposited small with large bonuses and then played forever on them.)

If the numbers are accurate, it would be a nice change from the typical 65-85% that is so common during most sessions.
 

RockbetJohn

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Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Location
Toronto - Barcelona
not sure which casino that is but the payout rates don't include bonuses but they may have caused a higher payout rate. Microgaming casinos have boasted about high payout rates for a while. It does happen where players can win a lot sometimes especially if a progressive jackpot win is factored into the equation. I think I have seen River belle post a payout rate of 107% in one month. A few big wins will do this.
 

NicolasJohnson

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Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Location
A Place
not sure which casino that is but the payout rates don't include bonuses but they may have caused a higher payout rate. Microgaming casinos have boasted about high payout rates for a while. It does happen where players can win a lot sometimes especially if a progressive jackpot win is factored into the equation. I think I have seen River belle post a payout rate of 107% in one month. A few big wins will do this.


Ditto what John said. Just like players can have unbelievably long streaks of luck and bad luck, affiliates and operators can see streaks too. Since we have larger sample sizes it is less common for an operator to see streaks, but it does happen.

I remember reading somewhere of a Vegas casino having a negative month on a game... I think Baccarat, but I'm not sure, it was a while ago that I read that.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
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Bexhill on sea, England
But can these pay out rates really be true? What do the experts think about it?
I'm not claiming to be an expert here... :p but I am an affiliate for all the Rival casinos, and I can tell you that in an average month at 33% to 50% of the casinos the players (all added together by casino) cash-out more than their total deposits.
So I don't have any problem in believing those figures could be correct for one or two months...

KK
 

DiamondGeezer

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NOT Pennsylvania!!!
Yes those figures could occur if they don't have many players ie small sample size. Or they could have quite a few small players but a high roller who won big.

I would worry if Ladbrokes posted those numbers though :D

It is interesting what you industry insiders are saying becasue a similiar thing is happening to UK bookmakers at the moment. There have been a huge amount of short odds winners in the premiership this season which has resulted in some monster payouts. For once the punters are ahead :thumbsup:
 

NicolasJohnson

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Location
A Place
Yes those figures could occur if they don't have many players ie small sample size. Or they could have quite a few small players but a high roller who won big.

I would worry if Ladbrokes posted those numbers though :D

It is interesting what you industry insiders are saying becasue a similiar thing is happening to UK bookmakers at the moment. There have been a huge amount of short odds winners in the premiership this season which has resulted in some monster payouts. For once the punters are ahead :thumbsup:


Well, the situation with bookmakers and casinos isn't quite the same. Casinos have a definitive odds. Sportsbooks don't. If a line maker makes a mistake, it can cost a book $100,000s. Casinos don't. When casinos have a negative month it has to do with Standard Deviation. This concept can be explained by the following picture:



Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
I remember reading somewhere of a Vegas casino having a negative month on a game... I think Baccarat, but I'm not sure, it was a while ago that I read that.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

That could have well been a story of the late billionaire Kerry Packer! I was lucky enough back in the day to actually witness this gentleman sign several markers one night for at least 6 million while sitting in the high limit room of one of Vegas finest casinos, I'll never forget that..:cool:

Kerry Packer was a larger-than-life gambler, a mogul who signed $1 million markers as if they were checks to Con Ed. He gambled for the kinds of stakes that kick-started the adrenal glands of even the most jaded casino executives. They all knew better than to keep him waiting when he wanted to lay down a bet. But one night, in the fall of 1989, after Packer blew into Las Vegas and found his way to the newly opened Mirage, the baccarat crew was not quite ready for him....
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
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RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
Rob I use to deal as well as taught the game. I could not read the article. I know first hand what happens with a new crew and a smart player. OH the memories and sweat stains. lol

cpdnd31, here it is again in another format, just copy and paste into your browser ( xxxwww.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,1779,00.html )
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chuchu59

gambling addict
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SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Ditto what John said. Just like players can have unbelievably long streaks of luck and bad luck, affiliates and operators can see streaks too. Since we have larger sample sizes it is less common for an operator to see streaks, but it does happen.

I remember reading somewhere of a Vegas casino having a negative month on a game... I think Baccarat, but I'm not sure, it was a while ago that I read that.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager

The casinos in Macau quoted years ago that they can expect to lose around 10 days in any given month and win on the other 20 days so it is very possible that a casino can have a negative month on Baccarat especially where high-rollers dont want company at tables so there are no offsetting bets. They win big and lose big.
 

gamblingmace

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Location
europa
today I received a similar email from another rival casino. again I dont mention its name. quote:


"Our slots are set to payout at 96% but every month we have some real Hot Slots. So far this month, these games are paying out huge to our players at an average payout of...

106.25% Average Payout!

Psychedelic Sixties - 127.22%
Cosmic Quest Ep. 1 - 110.30%
Aces and Faces - 102.81%
Scary Rich - 107.22%
Surf Paradise - 103.81%
Strike Gold - 107.49%
Reel Crime Art Heist - 101.14%
Atomic Age - 101.44%"
 

Pulver

Senior Member
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Tellus
That could have well been a story of the late billionaire Kerry Packer! I was lucky enough back in the day to actually witness this gentleman sign several markers one night for at least 6 million while sitting in the high limit room of one of Vegas finest casinos, I'll never forget that..:cool:

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WoW, that was a great read Rob! I love reading those Vegas\High roller stories. There should be a thread on here where previous dealers and other could post stories like that! :thumbsup:

(Sorry for derailing the thread)
 

NicolasJohnson

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Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Location
A Place
Are payout rates for casinos different in real mode vs fun mode? Have always been curious!!!:D

Depending on the casino software. Some have been known to set the payout for play mode and real mode to different percentages.

IMHO, this should never be. For me, that is rogue behavior and is close to fraud as it misleads and basically tricks players into thinking the casino has a much higher payout than it actually does.

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Regal Affiliates Manager
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
today I received a similar email from another rival casino. again I dont mention its name. quote:


"Our slots are set to payout at 96% but every month we have some real Hot Slots. So far this month, these games are paying out huge to our players at an average payout of...

106.25% Average Payout!

Psychedelic Sixties - 127.22%
Cosmic Quest Ep. 1 - 110.30%
Aces and Faces - 102.81%
Scary Rich - 107.22%
Surf Paradise - 103.81%
Strike Gold - 107.49%
Reel Crime Art Heist - 101.14%
Atomic Age - 101.44%"

They are able to give you an indication on the average payout for these games yet I have never been successful in requesting for my payout average for any game at any Rival casino. The software is unable to do it and you have to check it manually yourself I am told.
 

deucebag

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cyberspace
WoW, that was a great read Rob! I love reading those Vegas\High roller stories.

Then I can recommend the book Whale Hunt in the Desert. It's by a Las Vegas casino host and has lots of high roller stories, including some about Packer.
 
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