Online Casinos

[spearmaster]

Close... but the flowers won't be in my hair. My sister is getting married so I think there will be some sort of flower on my lapel LOL.

 

[jpm]

I've never been able to win anything on that one either. I don't waste my time on it anymore.

 

[whale]

IF you have an extra 500 bux laying around invest them into treasure nile

 

[wanda5]

I was so excited about this but hope I dont get grounded for posting this here : )
Ya know all those foundmoney.com ads we get & see on TV? well DONT use them!! Why should you be charged for money that was YOURS in the first place when you can go to the same sites they go to to check?
Think theres no way you have money floating around out there? THINK AGAIN.!!! I have found over $1500 for family and friends and if you go to your states site...its FREE!!! So why not take a look? Heres a link to all the states....

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Kyle and I have $411.00 that of course I consider gambling money : ) Anyway the wierdest things can happen. An apartment complex was sued for charging us too much for water & anyone who lived there 6 YEARS ago got part of the money, we got $87 and we never even knew there was a lawsuit. We also had two $100 deposits from our electric company from years ago that we didnt know about. The next was an old insurance policy refund and the last one was the cable company (sunday ticket) was sued (no idea why) and we got part of that. I was shocked! Wish I had a rich relatives inheritence lol. Its so fun when the names and address' pop up and its your you, friends or family. Calling them to show them is even more fun! ALSO if you lived in other states check them out. My mom has money in New York and she had not lived there in 18 years! Our states site (texas) shows not just your name, but also your address so you know right away if its you or not. Anyway, I was having so much fun with it that I had to share the info!! Lets just hope I can turn that $411 into much more at the casinos : )

 

[wanda5]

OH I myself have a love hate affair going on with Treasure Nile. I have found in my own personal experience that if you dont win more than your bet in the first 3 spins, I get out. Also it seems that my hits are always right in a row(in every game). If I get a scatter or a few wins in a row, I get out and go back a few munites later or wait a little while and then spin again because the losing streaks after a few good wins are severe!! Is it just me or have you all noticed that your wins come in in bulk just like your losses? In my head I pretend everyone wins at the same time and loses at the same time, so waiting out the losing streak (5 or 6 spins) has OFTEN kept me in the game. Another thing thats worked well for me is when I hit big and win over $1000 which I have done MANY times at Treasure Nile, I then go and do 3 spins each on the 5 & 9 liners MAX bets of $9-$25 bets, and have won so much. I have assumed that not many people play that much at a time so maybe they give you what I call a "suck you in win" to make you think youll win more, so to avoid getting sucked in...I take that win and run! whats really fun too is playing quarter bets on 1 liners, when I get down to $5 I go to the 1 liners and seem to win on my first 3 spins (if I dont I move on). I get out and go to the next one even if I just win 50 cents...you would be so suprised how you can turn a quarter into $20 and even more. I won $200 a few weeks ago on jet set on a quarter bet. It just takes patients. Also two games that rarely seem to let me down when I am at the end of my ropes are Zainy Zebra$(1.25 bet) & Flower Power (75 cents bet). I know that I have won $20 or more probably 30 times or more...its not much, but its enough to keep me playing. Cards seem to be the same way as far as winning in bulk and losing in bulk. I would love to hear your theories.

 

[thetest32]

Right, here's the question - which Microgaming slot have players had most luck with?

I wrote the other day about not winning a thing on Treasure Nile, but I have been lucky enough to hit $800 on Major Millions. However, let's try and leave progressives out of this.

So, which standard slot do people win at? I personally like Jackpot Express and hit the maximum 5000 coin (1250) payoff. Anything else I never do well at.

So... which ones pay off?!

 

[The Dude]

I am totally and completely addicted to Sun Quest slots. These can only be found at a few of the Microgaming Casinos; Sun Vegas, 7Sultans, Gaming Club, and a couple of others. 9 line 5 reels and it was designed by the Crazy Vegas guys for their SunVegas Casino. I've been recently making a killing off of it.

With a minimum $100 bank roll, I play $2.25 a spin and spin and spin and I've made some pretty good hits. Whenever I get above $120 I increase the bet to $4.50 or $9 and if I get down to $75 I decrease the bets back to $2.25. Anytime I get close to $200 in my account I cash out $100. There have been a number of times when I was on my last $5 and hit big enough to get me back into the game. Nice graphics too.

I cashed out $450 during the weekend, which was nice.

This game is designed using the same template from "Reel Thunder" by the way.

 

[thetest32]

Thanks! I must admit I've never played Sun Quest so I'll have to give it a go. Another 9-line, 5-reel one I've been looking in to is Monster Mania at 32Red - I've hit some big ones on that but only in Guest Chip mode...I've not plucked up the courage to try it for real yet!

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll check it out next time I play.

 

[caruso]

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

The probability that results such as these could be obtained from a fair game is...ZERO (rounded).

Without wanting to appear dramatic, I don't think it gets much bigger than this: Microgaming blackjack is squarely proven to be rigged.

 

[thetest32]

I've tried to put together a summary of the report:

Old / Expired Link

Ben.

 

[wdp]

Nice summary, Ben. Obviously, this is huge.

Anyone got any idea what the real vig on MG BJ is?

wdp

 

[zscream]

Just wanted to sincerely thank you on my behalf for your intercession and successful resolution to my matter. You are to be commended for your honesty and common sense solutions to difficult problems others would shy away from.You are a special person Bryan and I am proud to know you. Keep up fighting for the needy and maybe someone can nominate you for the Nobel Peace Prize. Thank you and all your members that helped if they did, I don't know. Thank you again, so much for being a really kind and understanding person. You remind me of superman, a long ago show, where it said, "He fights for what is right." Nice to know that there are still very decent people around.

 

[thetest32]

Thanks WDP,

I just tried to summarise the main points I read, but there's some more in the main report. Problem is it's just a pile of stats so I tried to convert it into English! However, the number of each type of hand received by the dealer also makes interesting reading in some instances.

Ben.

 

[caruso]

Aside from anything else, the dealer blackjacks figures are off the wall.

 

[spearmaster]

The probability that results such as these could be obtained from a fair game is...ZERO (rounded).

And how about the probability that these results were not obtained in a scientific manner?

No methodology was published - which normally renders the research useless.

 

[The Dude]

Unfortunately, the long awaited stats weren't published so that laypeople like me could make any sense of them. I understand that these were published as raw data so that everyone could make their own assessment and judgments, but this doesn't do me any good. And this doesn't help Joe and Jane the player either...

Again we have another situation open for dispute. I'm not pooh-poohing the hard work and effort made by Truegambling in their publication, but jeeze we need something we can bite into.

What I'm seeing are findings that are shooting all over the place. I don't have the energy to chase the results down and piece them all together.

I was looking forward to the report; everyone I know was anticipating it...but last winter's VP findings were just as frustrating. I needed crew of people to explain what a chi is. I thought it was a form of martial art or a kind of cabbage. After explanations were made about the VP findings, it turned out that Playtech's VP was skewered. This went generally unanswered by Playtech, and as far as I can tell, Playtech casinos are some of the most popular casinos out there.

I play often at Kiwi casino, and I've never had an issue with the VP play.

I know many players are really concerned about MG being pegged as "cheaters" and having rigged software. Personally, I'm waiting for more technically powerful minds than mine (Michael Shackelford, Gamemaster, Spear, UKCroupier, etc.) to peruse the data a bit more before I make any further comments.

 

[The Dude]

A bit off topic, but you're welcome zscream...

Thanks for the kind words.

 

[caruso]

Michael, G2B, Croup?

You, mean, other portal owners with Microgaming as their life blood?

Now, I wonder what they'll have to say?

Bryan, the stats aren't that tough. I have no statistical qualifications whatsoever, but all you need is a few minutes to plough through the figures and you get a pretty good idea. I DO have to take the "Chi" and "Yates" test findings on good faith, but I know he's not making it up.

You're right about Playtech: you people laugh the results off, all the dumbasses out there really don't give a damn (they just lose more quickly; hell, like they care about that), and the rest of us are left rather frustratedly knowing that these quasi-proven cheats (Playtech wasn't 100% conclusive) and stone cold certain cheats (MG is 100%) get off scott-free while the crooked operators and the portal owners are sniggering all the way to the bank.

Kind of makes me sick - but more power to the powerful.

 

[jpm]

I think that maybe they refrained from making any statements like 'this shows that MG's b.j. cheats' to avoid the probably lawsuit that would follow. Allowing everyone to make up their own minds gets around that, but it is alot of stuff to wade thru to figure out what the whole mess means. I agree, it really doesn't help Joe & Jane Gambler. And Spearmaster has a point too, the methodology isn't shown, so that's problematic.

I've made no bones about how I feel about MG's european BJ game and its invincible dealer, and this kind of reinforces that belief.

The VP results were interesting as well, though if anything, I think the playtech game is weighted towards the player's advantage rather than the casinos! I've hit more royals there than anywhere else in alot shorter period of time. (Though strangely enough, only one or two str8 flushes. Go figure!)

 

[cipher]

They are also associated with Aspinalls as well as the Flamingo Club casino and to my knowledge all of them are under the Playtech umbrella.

I think I made mention of these guys in an earlier post incident to their convoluted terms and conditions. I'm hoping this works out well for you Murder1. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[cipher]

They are also associated with Aspinalls as well as the Flamingo Club casino and to my knowledge all of them are under the Playtech umbrella.

I think I made mention of these guys in an earlier post incident to their convoluted terms and conditions. I'm hoping this works out well for you Murder1.

Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[spearmaster]

Caruso, whether you believe it or not, some of us do really have backbone, and give everything we have to various parts of the industry including the players.

There will always be skeptics. I thought that perhaps you were beginning to see that we don't just have our own interests in mind - but I guess I was wrong.

 

[The Dude]

<hr size=0>quote:<p>You, mean, other portal owners with Microgaming as their life blood?<hr size=0>​

Life blood? I don't think so. I know these people well and $$ is not at the crux of the matter. The main point in my opinion, is specifically what do these findings say, and what do they mean. I'm still waiting for further explanations from most parties involved.

Don't forget that some well established groups are using MG products; Ladbrokes for one--land based, publically traded, etc., and I'm sure that they have done their own research on the workings of MG's software. I don't think it could have been a half-baked decision.

Let's see what MG has to say.

 

[spearmaster]

And I am not a numbers guy - obviously Michael's opinion will be much more significant. All I'm saying is that the data is not properly validated.

 

[jetset]

The frustrating thing about coming in on the tailend of a discussion is that everything you wanted to say has already been said! That's the case here, particularly with the comments of JPM, Spear and Casinomeister.

This is a reprise of the last much anticipated results from TG where all ended in confusion, disappointment and heated debate as the experts and the not-so-expert interpreted the stats in diverse ways to the bewilderment of most of us. This was brought to TG's attention for future reference but it appears to have gone unheeded.

Surely if TG or whoever is responsible for releasing these numbers is totally confident in their accuracy and the very serious picture that they present, they should not fear lawsuits (as JPM points out) and should present these results in clear and unambiguous form, together with conclusions and, importantly their methodology (the lack of information on that was also the subject of criticism last time around)

Otherwise were going to see another inconclusive free-for-all that clouds rather than clarifies the picture.

I will certainly await the opinions of smarter minds than my own on this before I draw any conclusions.

And Caruso, I don't think making insinuations about the credibility of people who do not happen to immediately share your opinion on this matter is helpful - those who are taking a contrary or 'not yet convinced' view here have proved over and over that they do what is right and not what you may regard as expedient. So let's try and stay on topic and with a rational argument.

 

[murder1]

JPM, You remember back a few months ago. I made this same argument about MG? I said it was rigged. And don't need any stats to convince me otherwise. Well I am glad that I was right and I hope people sue the hell out of MicroGaming. The hell with Online Casinos. I also made the same argument with Sunny Groups BJ was being somewhat the same.

 

[ukcroupier]

Caruso, just to put things in perspective from my personal point of view - MGS made up approx. 10% of my income last month, but even if they made 90% they'll be dropped like a stone if I'm convinced that they're cheating.

My view of the OCA stats are similar to spear's. After a 3 month delay, and with the potential to bring down the #1 software provider, I was expecting a completely proffessional and thorough document.

What we got was a table of stats with no real reference to how they were collected, number of errors recorded, individual casinos covered, overall method used, etc.

Even the stats tables didn't have a good explanation of what they were, and the chi square explanation should have been updated from VP to BJ.

I admire TG for what he's trying to do. But a report that is so potential damaging should have been flawless.

 

[kengam]

I am very familiar with the study done by True Gambler. Each card on the client's end is recorded and held in a database on TG's server. There were error issues in some instances, but they were few and far between. Most of these were caused by changes in the format and display of cards delivered. The problems were isolated and quickly rectified. If the packet was currupt due to the error issue then the hand in question was omitted from the study. If I had to guess on the frequency then I would say less than 1 out of 10,000 was dismissed. A screen shot of the hand in question is also captured and recorded on the server. This can allow for a manual inclusion of these hands if deemed necessary.

To ask for a flawless report is asking for the impossible. The Wiz's report on Casino Bar was hardly flawless, but was accepted with enthusiasm. Give these guys time and they will come through with a more thorough explanation. They are purposely not trying to draw conclusions and are careful to say just that. It is up to us as players and observers to draw our own conclusions.

 

[spearmaster]

With all due respect, you cannot compare the Wiz to True Gambler, and the Wiz also produced a much more thorough methodology.

I'm not expecting a flawless report - I'm looking for a report which properly covers the bases and eliminates any significant room for error.

Once that has been established Microgaming will have a lot of explaining to do. Until then, the data still cannot carry much weight. What you are familiar with in regards to the study is not familiar to those of us outside the study so please do not assume that we can draw the appropriate conclusions just like that.

 

[jetset]

We are already seeing evidence of re-crunched numbers and errors (thread at WOL) and this sort of comment "Give these guys time and they will come through with a more thorough explanation. They are purposely not trying to draw conclusions and are careful to say just that." causes disquiet too.

Surely when this project started they were aware of the implications it carried and the need from a credibility aspect to stand behind the findings and present conclusions that all can understand. Leaving it to individual and in some cases non-expert interpretation is a dangerous if not irresponsible modus operandi that can have far-reaching adverse consequences.

This is something that has very, very serious and possibly expensive repercussions and it should not be handled in a casual fashion - to give confidence it should have been complete and thorough in the accepted scientific sense of the word on launch for the comfort and understanding of everybody interested.

I remain deeply disappointed.

 

[kengam]

The brains behind the OCA product can be compared to anyone in the field, Mike Shackleford included. I don't really ever expect a response from Microgaming or any other software group in the study. I also don't expect full agreement on the analysis. There is no conclusion in the report to dispute, only the method in which the data is collected.

I understand your point Spearmaster, perhaps you, Jetset, and others will be invited to test the OCA product firsthand. As I have said before, your collective insight holds much respect.

(Message edited by kengam on September 03, 2003)

 

[spearmaster]

We don't even know who the brains behind the OCA product is/are, Kengam... LOL... there is not enough information which has been made public.

 

[kengam]

fair enough. Hopefully all this will be answered publically, though for obvious reasons, I wouldn't hold my breath. As expected, the release of this report isn't exactly establishing friendly relations between TG and the industry bigwigs.

 

[jpm]

I remember the discussion Murder1 and I agreed with you. I've always felt there is something fishy about MG's european BJ. I thought it got way too many multicard 21's, bj's, 2 card 20s. Particularly when I doubled on a 9 10 or 11.

I'm not so convinced though about the other variants they've just added. I have actually been able to win money on those games. They seem to play much more as you'd expect bj to be played.

And I for one would have loved to have been part of the data collection for this project. I think it would have been very interesting to see it firsthand.

 

[jetset]

"As expected, the release of this report isn't exactly establishing friendly relations between TG and the industry bigwigs."

Kengam, I don't think it is a question of friendly relations but rather one of acute disappointment that a concept with so much potential for good has been delivered in this rather *informal* style which detracts from its credibility. It deserves far better than this.

 

[mary]

Jet, there were economic limits on what could be accomplished. You know how are hard it is to get anybody at a so-called gaming commission to respond to queries. I think this was a "soft launch" to get some notice.

Ideally, a gaming commission that really intended to regulate the industry and not just collect taxes would select player volunteers to use the software and collect data which would then be analyzed by the commission.

Commissioners in Antigua and elsewhere who suggested adding a "black box" to outgoing casino lines were not popular and the idea was dropped. Casinos threatened to take their business to other islands.

I hope eCogra picks this up. Microgaming could put rumours to rest by volunteering to be subject to such scrutiny by players unknown to them. The data could be submitted to PWC, never passing through Microgaming's hands.

 

[thetest32]

Geisha Lounge and Grand Aces have announced that they are switching from their current software to Real Time Gaming. The switch is due to happen on 10th September but at the moment I don't think there are any major plans to migrate across the old accounts - hence only new accounts will play on RTG.

Full story available at:

Old / Expired Link

 

[kengam]

You are correct Jetset, but is there really a precedent for a massive colaboration of statistics from several different sources? No project of this nature has ever been attempted up until this time. We are talking about several million hands of data. It is no simple undertaking by any means. While it was presented in a rather informal style, I feel that information this important should be presented so that PLAYERS can decide for themselves whether to dive into the cloudy world of internet gambling.

If you knew there were reasons to doubt the randomness of certain casino software packages, would you try to quickly spread the word informally or waste more time finalizing the report? There will be plenty of time for formalities in the coming weeks. In this business, knowing who and what is involved, I feel that players should get first considerations. I, as a player, appreciate the release of the report. It serves as a justified warning to players who otherwise have no other hard evidence in which to make any kind of decisions. If TG is jumping the gun, then I thank them for that.

 

[pokeraddict]

I've figured all along that the sick # of BJ's the MG dealers get something was going on. That and the rule that allows me to double then tell me it has BJ taking twice my bet made me run from these people. I hope that report makes it into a more english form for us dummies! LOL

 

[boodu]

I say deem MG rigged until proven otherwise. This is real money we are talking about here and if they are suspect of rigged software then let a 3rd party test their software. Simple. If they don't like that then they must have something to hide. Truegambler was testing their fairness and now you don't believe the results, it's crazy. A 3rd party proves MG is rigged, now everyone is trying to discredit them. Even though a thousand other people complain of the 5-6 card 21s/BJs/2 card 20s/etc you don't believe them either.

If we were playing for play money or something then maybe no one should care. But this is peoples real hard earned money, not just numbers on a screen, which is getting stolen. Its funny how criminals seem to have more rights than their victims.

If you like then go and put some money on MG BJ. Count all the multi card 21s/2 card 20s/BJs. Then increase your bet and see how many you lose in a row. Then, play reverse basic strategy and see how well you do (hit when you should stand/vice versa). Then stand on everything over 10, same thing. You will find no matter what you do (hit/stand/etc), if the game wants to lose, it loses.

Well, thats all I'm going to say.

 

[slimbone]

Serious players have always known that Microgaming cheats. TG's report is no surprise. My long term results with Microgaming's BJ game have always been way behind theoretical expectation.

 

[murder1]

Yes People!!! Remember the article I posted about Sunny Group and Microgaming. RE-READ BELOW.

CASINOFORTUNE TERMINATES AGREEMENT WITH MICROGAMING SOFTWARE

CasinoFortune a division of Sunny Casinos, which is itself a division of Sunny Group of Companies, announced today that it has discontinued using Microgamings casino Software. This decision comes after being unable to resolve concerns in relation to the percentage associated with its Microgaming software.

CasinoFortune a division of Sunny Casinos, which is itself a division of Sunny Group of Companies, announced today that it has discontinued using Microgamings casino Software. This decision comes after being unable to resolve concerns in relation to the percentage associated with its Microgaming software.

This decision comes against the background of industry concerns emanating from United States pressure. The Sunny Group is concerned to maintain its clean image and good industry reputation. CasinoFortune believes that its players are best protected at this time by not being offered Microgaming Software. CasinoFortune is asking that a truly independent auditing company be called in to verify the accuracy of payout percentages quoted. There should also be proof that the random number generator used by Microgaming is truly random and not susceptible to manipulation by the software provider. Sunny Casinos will always place its reputation before profits.

Below is a more detailed account of the events that led to the above decision:

An International auditing company is employed by Microgaming and CasinoFortune to review the output of the random number generator embedded in the Microgaming software used by CasinoFortune. The auditing company confirms that the generator consistently produces random numbers and is a fair basis for the outcome of games that have been played. Presently, CasinoFortune is not convinced that this is accurate.

The January 2002 audit report was released late February. At that time Decembers report had also not been sent. CasinoFortune repeatedly asked for the figures, which are usually published to its customers.

On 8th February CasinoFortune was asked to sign a new contract with Microgaming. The terms of this contract stated, Microgaming shall not be liable to the Operator for any indirect consequential or special damages or loss of profits arising out of or in connection with this Agreement. CasinoFortunes Directors voiced extreme suspicion and wrote to Martin and Anthony Moshal expressing this and other points of concern.

On February 13th Microgaming announced that January figures would be late due to technical difficulties. A serious letter was sent to both Microgaming and the auditing company demanding an explanation as CasinoFortune was concerned that if there were technical difficulties in obtaining information then they could stem from the random number generator.

On 20th February CasinoFortunes IT Director wrote again "We are very concerned about our payout percentages. We also have not received our audit reports for the last 2 months. I was forced to review the previous problem we had sometime ago regarding payout percentages as shown in emails below. The IT Director made reference to a November 2000 settlement Microgaming made with several licensees after it was suspected that they (Microgaming) had tampered with the random numbers generator causing losses. The Director copied letters from other operators who claimed that the settlement represented only one fifth of what was actually lost.

On February 22nd Microgaming, after many phone calls from CasinoFortune, agreed that the matter would be investigated and that a report would be sent to us from the auditing company on the following Monday. This was never done and up to this time CasinoFortune has not received Decembers report. An urgent meeting of the Sunny Group Board was held and Microgaming was given 3 weeks to provide the report.

On the weekend of March 1st, 2nd & 3rd Microgaming was seen entering the proprietary Sunny Group credit card server. Microgamings access was immediately cut off and it was confirmed that no data was tampered with. However, in the light of what occurred, CasinoFortune became even more concerned.

On March 3rd Roger Raativer of Microgaming notified CasinoFortune that the auditing company was considering termination of the services they provide. CasinoFortune attempted to contact Anthony or Martin Moshal but received no answers to emails or phone messages. On 11th March, Anthony Moshal sent his new email address, which was no longer a Microgaming one.

On March 13th Microgaming asked CasinoFortune to sign new agreements with a company in the Isle of Man. The agreements stated the following terms "that at any time after termination of this Agreement, the Covenanter shall not disclose to any other person firm or company particulars of any of Microgamings Confidential Information.

 

[murder1]

This is the actual story:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time has passed since Sunny Group of Casinos and Microgaming Software have severed their business relationship.

In that time, several reports have been made about the circumstances that caused this to happen. Below are excerts from articles, and links to the complete articles, that relate the story from both points of view.

Note that some of these references are from Press Releases from the affected companies.


FROM PRWEB

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SUNNY CASINOS PRESS RELEASE


"...An International auditing company is employed by Microgaming and Casino Fortune to review the output of the random number generator embedded in the Microgaming software used by Casino Fortune. The auditing company confirms that the generator consistently produces random numbers and is a fair basis for the outcome of games that have been played. Presently, Casino Fortune is not convinced that this is accurate.

The January 2002 audit report was released late February. At that time Decembers report had also not been sent. Casino Fortune repeatedly asked for the figures, which are usually published to its customers...

...On 20th February Casino Fortunes IT Director wrote again "We are very concerned about our payout percentages. We also have not received our audit reports for the last 2 months. I was forced to review the previous problem we had sometime ago regarding payout percentages as shown in
emails below.

The IT Director made reference to a November 2000 settlement Microgaming made with several licensees after it was suspected that they (Microgaming) had tampered with the random numbers generator causing losses. The Director copied letters from other operators who claimed that the settlement represented only one fifth of what was actually lost...

On March 17th, credits for guest customer accounts were tampered with. Upon investigation, it was proven that this was not caused by any employee of Casino Fortune. Microgaming was promptly contacted and they denied any allegation that their staff had anything to do with the interferences. Casino Fortune attempted to no avail, to speak directly to the Microgaming principle, Martin Moshal. Mr. Moshal did not respond to emails and his cellnumber was no longer active. "
These are serious allegations from Sunny Casinos regarding whether Microgaming actually paid a settlement to a complainant, in essence admiting some wrongdoing.

In fact, the registered owner of the domain name "Microgaming.com" is now listed as "David Black". Attempts to contact Mr. Black have been unsuccessful.

Microgaming issued the following Press Release on March 27, 2002:
https://www.casinomeister.com/gambling-news/

MICROGAMING PRESS RELEASE


"MICROGAMING REGRETS TO ANNOUNCE THAT THE SOFTWARE LICENCE AGREEMENT WITH THE SUNNY GROUP OF COMPANIES (WHICH OPERATES CASINO FORTUNE, MAPAU AND MIAMI BEACH CASINO) HAS BEEN TERMINATED.

Sunny Group has not been settling its outstanding licensing fees for some time, and its current licensing fees were severely in arrears. Microgaming was left with no alternative but to terminate the Software Licence Agreement with the Sunny Group. Notice of the termination was given and confirmed by Microgaming's lawyers.

Microgaming and the Sunny Group have had a long relationship. The termination was not taken lightly and was done with a heavy heart.

Microgaming is doing everything possible to assist the Sunny Group of casinos to finalise its data so that it can pay out its players.

Microgaming has noted a press announcement from Sunny Group, stating that the licence was terminated by the Sunny Group, and citing a variety of spurious grounds for this. The allegations made in support of these grounds in the release, are quite simply false, and are known to the Sunny Group to be false. Microgaming regrets that the Sunny Group has sought to hide its financial embarrassment in this manner."
Reports of malicious conduct against Casino Fortune, were also alleged by Sunny Casinos in a subsequent Press Release dated May 8, 2002.


FROM CASINO TIMES NEWS:
Old / Expired Link

SUNNY GROUP PRESS RELEASE

"...On April 6th an anonymous mailer sent a Trojan Virus in a promotional offer seemingly from Casino Fortune to some Casino Fortune customers who had signed an online petition against Microgaming. This resulted in a crash on their hard drives. I guess this is a strategy to make people fearful of playing with us. The few players that reported this incident were given new hard drives to accommodate their misfortune, said Anand Rajkumar, Promotions Director.

On April 7th, Jackpot.com/Vendare Group began spamming subscribers with promotional email sent as coming from Casino Fortune. Further down the page the name Atlantic Casino Fortune is given. The registered address of Atlantic Casino Fortune is an Isle of Man address used by Microgaming...
In the same Press Release, Casino Fortune claims to have received the following email:


"On May 5th, 2002 Casino Fortune received the following email, which was traced to a Johannesburg address:

Random number generators work in the following fashion:

1. Take a range of fractions (usually between 0 -1) and run the random function on the range.

2. Then apply this fraction to the actual range of numbers that you are interested in (e.g. in a card game with 4 decks the probability of choosing an arbitrary each card decreases by a factor of 4)

3. What you can do to influence the outcome is to weight the outcome based upon some other event by applying a variable to the function you create that generates the outcome.

If you want it to be truly random you can weight the values based upon some value, which is infinitesimal such as the current server time down to microseconds.

By the same token you can also pass a blank variable, which will register as a NULL value, and then at any point in time to weight the outcome values upwards or downwards, you can then pass a non-null variable and this will then skew the outcome of the randomness.

Basically this is how the Random Number Generator (RNG) works:

1. Client software connects to the port on the Gaming server.

2. Client software requests a game that player wants.

3. Player requests to be dealt or to spin Client software connects to gaming server and asks for a random number to be generated on a specific port.

4. Based upon the weighting of the RNG the result will come back as within probability or skewed.

5. On the MGS Gaming server the following parameters are passed to the RNG: game, game type, time (hh:mm:ss:ss.sss) and client parameters request # etc. The MGS Gaming server RNG service can be weighted according to a variable that is usually left blank.

6. Request result is then recorded and sent back to the client."
At this time, it is not known which casino Microgaming is alleged to have paid a financial settlement. However, this information would, if true, validate Sunny Group's concerns about the validity of Microgaming's Random Number Generator.

It should also be noted that PriceWaterhouseCoopers(PWC) only validates information provided by Mircogaming itself, and does not have access to the Random Number Generator itself. Consequently, PWC is confirming the Payout Ratio based only on Microgaming's own reports.

 

[caps]

I couldn't agree more about 32Red -- I've had reasonable success there, and the customer service and prompt-payout process are exemplary. I'm a bit nervous, though, given the recent Microgaming developments. Though I've had success there, you can't help but wonder, if the software's funky, whether it makes sense to continue to direct money that way. I can't imagine that this isn't going on with a lot of folks who otherwise have been happy with certain MG sites, and most folks do seem to be quite happy with 32Red.

 

[dave_r]

Darwin Ortiz is a respected authority on the subject of cheating at land based casinos. In his book "Gambling Scams", he states:

"Whenever the subject of gambling casinos comes up, someone is bound to observe that places like Las Vegas and Atlantic City don't have to cheat because they make enough money from the mathematical edge they enjoy over the player. Besides, no casino operator would risk forfeiting a casino license representing a multimillion dollar investment just to make a few dollars by cheating. These two bits of Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce propaganda have been repeated so often they have become part of the conventional wisdom. But let's take a closer look.
People don't cheat because they have to; they cheat because they're greedy. They want every dollar on the table and every dollar in your pocket and they want it as fast as possible. Some of the greediest people I have ever encountered are to be found among casino executives. If the operators of Nevada and Atlantic City casinos thought they could get away with it, cheating would be commonplace.

The one element that prevents this from happening is government policing by the Gaming Control Board of Nevada and the Division of Gaming Enforcement in New Jersey. However, it is not realistic to assume that a casino operator who fostered cheating need run a great risk of losing his license. A casino owner does not have liability for cheating committed by an employee without his knowledge. Therefore, it would not be enough for government investigators to uncover cheating. They would have to be able to prove the cheating was sanctioned by management. This is something very difficult to establish even if it were the case. As a point of fact, Control Board agents in Nevada often arrest casino employees for cheating. Typically, one or two dealers are indicted and perhaps a floorman; it never goes further.

None of this is meant to suggest that cheating is widespread in the legal gambling centers of this country. However, the possiblity of cheating exists wherever gambling takes place and it is naive to think otherwise."

 

[dave_r]

Why do online casinos cheat?

The answer is GREED!
They are simply not satisfied with the house advantage and want to steal more of YOUR hard earned money.

Back in the 1960's, Dr. Edward O Thorp wrote a book called "Beat The Dealer", which started the entire card counting revolution. Since Thorp is a noted authority on the game of blackjack, very few people can deny that he is a credible expert when it comes to casino cheating (of the land based casinos in the late 50's and early 60's).

Thorp stated...
"Before I became seriously interested in blackjack, I, and everyone that I knew, was convinced that, although blackjack dealers in casinos were often fantastically skillful with cards and could cheat if they so desired, they did not cheat. The well-publicized argument is that the casinos enjoy a natural advantage in the game and will win anyhow. Why should a casino risk possible exposure with its resultant bad publicity, loss of customers, and perhaps even loss of thier gaming license?..."

"We might answer this with another question, 'Isn't there widespread corruption in political life and in the business world?' And also, isn't it often for the same stakes (money) and with comparable risks (loss of position or of the license to operate, bad publicity, etc.)? Why then should legalized gambling be more immune from dishonesty than 'legalized' politics or 'legalized' business?"

"Since I was originally naive enough to swallow the widely publicized argument that blackjack as played in the casinos is generally honest, it took painful personal experience to convince me of the contrary...", says Thorp.

"...I went on several exploratory trips with the purpose of investigating cheating. I played at most of the major casinos in Las Vegas and Reno for periods ranging from a few minutes (cheating) to several hours, with bets ranging from $1 to $50. I was cheated frequently enough to learn to classify and spot a dozen or so current techniques. There was cheating at large plush casinos, as well as at smaller out-of-the-way places. There was cheating at all betting levels, even for 25 cents!! In many additional instances, the cards behaved so strangely that I suspected cheating although I could not actually see seconds being dealt (with a good dealer it is extremely difficult to see)."

"...I have been told by a very reliable source that, in the first five years of the Nevada Gaming Control Board's operation, they have closed down more than twenty casinos for cheating. Little, if any, publicity is generally given to these proceedings, and the casinos usually reopen promptly under new management. However, the Gaming Control Board seems to be the Nevada blackjack player's only source of appeal after being cheated..."

Thorp lists over ten methods of cheating in "Beat The Dealer", and another few methods in his later book, "The Mathematics of Gambling". Most methods he describes were the result of corrupt casino management that were deliberately rigging the games. In most cases, the dealer wasn't stealing the $$$ for himself, but for the casino. The following methods were used:

1)Marked cards
2)Dealing Seconds
3)Deck Stacking: The High-Low Pickup
4)Deck Stacking: The Seven-Card Stepup
5)Anchor Men
6)Peeking
7)Mechanics on Call
8)Arbitrary Shuffling of Player Friendly
Cards (Aces + Tens) To Bottom Of Deck
9)Crimping (Bending or Warping) Cards
10)Fautly Pay-Offs in The Favor Of The House
11)Removal Of Ten Value Cards From The Deck
12)Addition of 5 Value Cards To Multi-Deck
Games

Lack of regulation is a license to steal. Most online casinos are completely unregulated, and can rig thier games in such a way as to steal your money slowly, but consistantly, and still allow you to win occasionally. Instead of allowing the basic strategy blackjack player to lose at the normal rate of approx .5%, the blackjack can be rigged just like a slot machine with odds of 5% or greater. (Odds just as bad as a roulette game.) And since the source code of the turnkey provider is kept under lock and key, NOONE can prove the games are dishonest.
No regulatory agencies test the fairness of the software. Reliable auditing firms are paid huge sums of money to release monthly special reports listing payout ratios. And yet these audit trails and gaming logs can be manufactured by the software provider. The auditing firms don't have access to the back end servers. Therefore, the software provider can cheat as much as it wants, and the audit firm will take the software providers word that the gaming logs are genuine. When you lose a fortune, and complain to the software provider that thier games are rigged, they claim it was just "bad luck". So sorry for your misfortune.

How can certain online casinos afford to give out such huge bonuses to new players if the games were honest. In some cases, the games are rigged so much, even a 20% bonus is not enough to make it a fair game.

The fact of the matter is that many software developers in this business hire programmers to turn off jackpots, eliminate royal flushes, and implement "take down" modes into the source codes.

There are a handful of honest software developers. Please don't get me wrong. I am not accusing everyone of being dishonest. Certain companies have ethics, morals, and credibility. Most do not.

Just follow the money trail. In this business, almost everyone is bought and paid for.

 

[jpm]

Boodu, I have done the same thing, played reverse basic strategy against MG's european BJ (hitting when I should stand, standing when I should hit, etc) and been surprisingly successful for a short period. Too coincidental in my mind to be fair.

 

[pokeraddict]

What is basic strategy when dealer tells you he has BJ AFTER you double or split? Do you split 8's and aces vs aces an faces? double 11 into face? He seems to have BJ over and over, do you even bother? I guess thats why i wont play their BJ.

 

[cipher]

Dave_R, I can't think of the last time that I read a more well prepared and concise post. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[boodu]

jpm:

Yea, kinda strange how that works!

pokeraddict:

Yea, there really is no point.

murder1 & Dave_R - Great posts!