Oh my GOD! God d#mn cheaters!

[steinhaug]

Oh I so want to believe you small rollers that the world is perfect, and that the casinoes doesnt cheat! But they surely do! I just had the silliest round of blackjact in 3Dice - it's so obvious. Why do the cards change behavior on different wagers? I really want to know! (that is an obvious quiestion).

The obvious observation is clear, the cards will try to give you as many wins as possible on low wagers so it can such you dry on higher wagers. And by the way, you can see this behaviour also playing with tournament!

So, lets see how fast a 1000 euroes goes when wagering constantly 25 and 50 euroes, I had a feeling I was going for a nice win streak since the 50% was absolutely in my favour from dangeling some time with 1-5 and 10 wagers.

So lets start with 25 wagering:
0 = loose, if (21) it means dealer has 21, (B) means blackjack
1 = win, if (21) means I got 21, (B) means blackjack
B = I bust
- = Even
0+ = I double and loose
1+ = I double and win

0(21)
0
0(21)
0
-
-
0(21)
1
-
0(21)
0
B
0(21)
1
1
1(B)
0(B)
1
0+
B
1+
0
B
0(21)
B
1(B)
-
B
1
B
B
0(21)
0
0
B
0
1
-
1
B
B
-
0(B)
1
1
1
-
0
0(21)
-
-
1+
0(21)
0(21)
0
0
1
1
0
0
0
B
B
1
B
B
0(21)
B
B
B
B
-
0
0(B)
0
B
0(21)
0(21)
1
1
B
0(21)

The last cards was a 100 euro bet and I was out...

I so want to belive you people who say the casino doesnt alter the algorythm and so, but doing tournaments for a week now observing the same behavior, and getting this is my face with real money - sorry I just cant convince myself any longer I'm the insane man and your are the sane ones.

Also, my earlier MG excersice with 250.000+ spins (which I do have playcheck data from!!!) where I more or less force the bonus on Glory of Rome again and again, so we meet the wonderful 95% payout also speaks for it self.

I hope some of you statistcs people out there would want to look into the playcheck data of mine - so you can tell me that I'm wrong - so you can tell me why loosing on one game makes me win again and again on Glory of Rome... You need to to this - because to me it stinks to high heaven! And every time I want to believe you things are all jokkidi dokkidy, and a big win shouldnt mean the casino freezes - heydiho I kick myself in the balls!

So for you out there that have a feeling something is going on, take my advice, and I'm a software developer so I not stupid! I am an gambling addict, sure, but not stupid! 5+ years and $100.000 in losses, a few 1000 hours watching, making notes, you see some things!

Hey, even some of you hardballers in here are starting to say "well I must say I have noticed when the scatters appear so and so..." Bollocks, if it's random that shouldt happend! It's my firm belief, or my theory at the moment, the system supresses larger wins if your payout is high, and it will gracefully help you from time to time if the payout is low.

Wagering $10.000 during a year on high variance slots should not give you 95% payout! Some should have high, and some should have to crawl out with 40% if they didn't hit anything. But that doesnt happen... I wonder why we only get one account in each casino... Could it be to have totally controll over your stats? I would think so!

God damn!

 

[SlotsWizard]

I wonder why we only get one account in each casino... Could it be to have totally controll over your stats? I would think so!

People are only allowed one account to prevent them from receiving the sign-up bonus more than once.

If you are really that paranoid that online casinos are out to get you, you probably shouldn't be gambling online. However, I can assure you that the same treatment awaits you in a B&M casino if you have ever played their slots.

 

[steinhaug]

In farness for 3Dice, let me follow up with some more info, since the kind people there gave me a little bonus to wiggle with.
B (50 euro)
B (50 euro)
1 (30 euro)
1 (60 euro)
1 (30 euro)
1 (30 euro)
1 ( 5 euro)
B ( 1 euro)
0 (10 euro)
0 (30 euro)
1 (30 euro)
1 (40 euro, blackjack)
1 (30 euro)
B ( 5 euro)
B (10 euro)
1+(20 euro)
0 ( 5 euro, 21)
1 ( 5 euro)
B (15 euro)
0 (15 euro, my fault, pressed double on 20... shize)
1 (15 euro)
1 (30 euro, blackjack)
0 (30 euro)
1 (30 euro)
1 (60 euro)
1 (60 euro)
B (30 euro)
1 (30 euro)
0 (30 euro)
- (40 euro)
1 (50 euro)
0 (50 euro, blackjack)
1 (50 euro)
1 (50 euro)
1 (50 euro)
1 (10 euro, blackjack)

Was it just a dry spell? Even if I win back my original deposit the result is still i ended up depositing alot today. The results did turn it seems, statistically they would have to aswell. By argument with MG still stands 100% however.

 

[steinhaug]

However, I can assure you that the same treatment awaits you in a B&M casino if you have ever played their slots.

Believe me I know, however - we dont see it there! They, most likely, cheat aswell. But we do not get the pleasure of pulling out playcheck data and having 100% controll over the slot and see every spin, we do online!

Also, you do remember the thread with the guy who won alot and sat on the phone with his girlfriend wagering at thunderstruck at same wager and same casino, however the girlfriend won all the time but he was sucked dry?

There are a few examples which have been mention in this forum that is far from random, they simply cannot be! One thing is sure, it is not that hard making $50 become $250, making $500 becoming $2500 is another story! Even when you x5 the wagering. Unless my ~ $50.000 the last year trying both are extremely unlucky that is, I know. Why I gamble? I'm an addict, I have never tried to hide that fact. Am I greedy? Sure! It doesnt mean I'm blind, it doesn't mean I'm not good for the money! I'm greedy, and an addict. Reality bites!

Merry christmas by the way,

 

[gobucs]

You're right! They're cheating! I've been playing Blackjack for over two years now and have lost over $150,000! I guess I'm an addict too. The thing is, I've played numerous big name casinos, PartyPoker (when legal in the US), Bodog, LasVegas USA, and several others. It's all the same, no matter the software. If I bet small, let's ay $1 a hand, I win my fair share, sometimes even more than the dealer. But if increase the wager and keep it increased, the house enjoys a 30+% win/loss advantage. I've never seen so many suck-out 21's, and bad beats on doubles and splits. I can win 4 hands in arow for $1 and bet $10 and lose. I can lose 4 hands in a row for $1 bet $10 and lose, and keep betting 10 and keep losing. Only it's not $10 it's $50-$100. I can spend weeks building up my bankroll, and they will steal it in minutes by winning rediculous numbers of hands in a row. How many times have you seen the house win 8 hands in a row (just an example, they win more than that a lot) you win 1 and the house wins the next 1,2,3 in a row. There are hudreds of these patterns. I've posted threads on here before about exactly this, but nobody seems to get it. I wonder how many people in this forum actually work for the casinos themselves.
I've found the only thing that works is to consistently bet low and sneak in a larger bet every once in awhile. This is very frustrating too because when you're betting low your winning (go figure). But you have to be very patient with this method. And look at the patterns. They are there. They shouldn't be in this so-called random world, but they're there. I've actually had some pretty good cashes this way. Otherwise I'd be down $300,000.
Thanks for your post. I'm glad to know that I'm not completely insane, or at least alone in my insanity.
gobucs

 

[steinhaug]

I've found the only thing that works is to consistently bet low and sneak in a larger bet every once in awhile. This is very frustrating too because when you're betting low your winning (go figure). But you have to be very patient with this method.

This is just what I noticed aswell, very clearly, the last week as I had a "comback" in online Blackjack. This "tecnique" does work and you can sneak your bankroll a few x100 upwards. But once you start switching bets in the x5+ range, the cards gets really confused and starts throwing blackjacks and ties all over the place. Oh my that is so random, especially since it happends consistantly.

I smile when you mention the 8 loose in a row, seems todays blackjack never let me loose more than 7 times in a row, followed by 1 win and 2+ looses again and tie. Then, depending on wagering, what happends next. I do however would like to see 7 wins in a row in a few short in between series, no, didn't see that.

Also, loose a few big hands, go lowest and enjoy a lucky streak! Loose many low hands and you do not automatically enjoy winning high hands.

I belive the trick is to look at the blackjack as true, but weighted, it does look like blackjack on the outside.

Whatever the results are, I must say comparing 3Dice blackjack with MG blackjack I still love 3Dice much more! MG is just ultraconfusing with all those 20/21 on the dealer again and again and again and again... broke!

 

[gobucs]

Do you know if 3dice allows US players?

 

[steinhaug]

I would think they do, they are from the Netherlands. They are kind with their high-rollers, that I can say! And did I get a lucky streak now in BJ, I'm back to square one. Whatever the results, I still favour their blackjack the best online one. So if your still wagering anyways, check that one out. Do some 100 hands on $1-$10 to get the feel before getting naked and diving into your vault,

 

[steinhaug]

By the way,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

is their website. A unique casino aswell, the only one with that software. Lovely graphics.

 

[SlotsWizard]

I get a lucky streak now in BJ, I'm back to square one. Whatever the results, I still favour their blackjack the best online one.

Oh good, so they're not rigged after all. Whew!

Merry Christmas to you too.

 

[kakata]

Kimss I usually like you......this time thou I didnt undearsteand you either.
Lot of frustration.....Ive been there too.
Do they or do they not?
Merry christmas

 

[markjacob]

Oh good, so they're not rigged after all. Whew!

Merry Christmas to you too.

Well I'm glad you got that clarified!

 

[steinhaug]

Do they or do they not?

Thanks for your comment. I definitely believe they do, and I am also more or less convinced you have 1 chance in each MG casino to make a profit, after that you will never win back you total deposit - unless you should get a progressive that is. I got back to scratch, a little ahead and then hei'di'hooo, Im back struggling again. It was fantastic to see that the tide would infact turn, which it would anyways to keep an overall %.

So my point would be, I do not believe any online - or landbased for that matter - operate truly random, its pest or colera. Given this premise, and the fact that Im an gambling addict (weee) I much rather wager on 3Dice blackjack! That was my point.

I would one time like to see me start off in blackjack and end with 1000 in winnings, before accually depositing 1000. How come I always win 1000 after loosing 1000?

That statement, you people who still live in your bubbles, you should really think about! I find it truly inspiring to dwell on at nights when I smoke the pipe and get my thought spinning into conspiracy world as some would say. Id bet, as a gambler, some would say that!

 

[steinhaug]

Oh good, so they're not rigged after all. Whew!

Merry Christmas to you too.

?? With that logic, when I lost $5000 in one MG the other night, and magically won a 2500 lucky slingshot, battled my way up to 3500 again and weee... Then after accumulated losses for around 3-400 more I got a great 1200 win. (we are in the 5-10 wager spinning).

Then again, when I - since this obviously happends to me who do alot of high rolling - wager low, hey habbiluuba you get some nice ones.

Yes they are still rigged, even if I got that good streak _afterwards_. As noted, I have still yet to see I start with say 50 and end with a 1050. It accually never happened, and that is based on probably 50.000 in losses in online blackjack over the years.

But man oh man, I was upto 3000 one time... After depositing an hillarious 4000! Go figure!

Maby your IP is restricted in the MG realm, or maby you wager small most the time I do not know. But as a skilled slotster as I belive you are I honestly cannot get my head around the fact you do not see some odd behaviour in the wins during the sessions.

Merry Christmas by the way!

 

[vinylweatherman]

If you want to add to the paranoia, look at my thread where I was getting the 5 rams again, and again, and again etc on Thunderstruck over a short period of times. Many players spin for year and NEVER see them once, let alone a dozen times in a month or two.

So, what was my secret?

Each and every time I was betting between 0.18 and 0.54 per spin.


The scatters DO show long term patterns in how they fall, sometimes you will barely see any at all for more than 200 spins, and at other times they just fly in. The consequence of this is that when the scatters fall in phase with each other because there are more on average per spin, the bonus rounds become much more frequent, even if they are still crap.

The older slot, 5 reel drive has a set piece "suck" cycle of 30 or so completely naked spins with a set of 3 or 4 scatters roughly in the middle, after which it reverts to hitting those minor wins every couple of spins.
This is so noticeable when playing a wagering tournament and watching thousands of spins, it is not just a quirk of variance, it is a definite set of naked spins that stands outside of the normal statistical spread of how many naked spins it takes before hitting any payout. ALL the video slots have such runs of naked spins.
Another experiment is to look only at the first reel of Cabin Fever. Sometimes the "sun" is in view every damn spin almost, but at other times it hits less than one in 10 or 20. It seems this reel tends to end up within a symbol or two of it's departing position for spin upon spin, rather than ramdomly being placed anywhere along it's strip each spin. If that favoured segment includes the sun bonus symbol, you think it's "hot", but if the segment does not, the slot seems "cold".
This suggests that the algorithm behind these games is NOT that of a standard video slot with 5 independent random numbers being used to place the reels, but perhaps something along the lines of a single random number compared to a win table containing all possible probabilities that can contribute to the 95% quoted payoff. The server then uses this single result to form 5 reel positions that are then transmitted for display. The patterns arise because of the way the reel stops are matched to the single randomly determined win, and MG have this habit of taking "shortcuts" that the player shouldn't notice (VP doubling game). This might mean they do not take care to ensure that the winning patterns obey what should be statistically expected of a fullly randomised 5 reel slot with independent random determination of each reel stop. Unfortunately, under this scenario the patterns may not necessarily have the predictive value you think, because any prediction must take into account which game model is being used.

It's possible, but unlikely (too easy to get caught), that the same model is applied to games with less possible outcomes, such as Blackjack. Despite this, there are times when the dealer can better nearly everything you have, and at others can lose with the best of up cards. If you knew a pattern here, you could easily alter strategy and stand against dealer high cards knowing they are on a busting streak and will NOT keep hitting the 19,20, and 21 against your 15's and 17's.

One character took advantage of this and developed the now notorious "Cypher Blackjack system", which claimed to be able to predict exactly when to hit the tables with huge knockout bets after "patterning" the session with tiny $1 bets. It turned out to be a huge con, costing both players and "investors" tens of thousands of dollars, all who thought they had cracked the code of online Blackjack.

If the games DO have predictive patterns, the casinos are asking for trouble when one day the code is cracked, they will go out of business in no time!

Perceived patterns must really be artifacts of the software, and can give insight into what is REALLY being "randomly determined" as the result of your game. It has already been shown that the various Microgaming "pick" games are simply an artifact, whereas the result has already been predetermined and whatever icon the player chooses has no effect on what they are destined to receive.
Free spins, at least, seem to genuinely be 10,12, 15, 20 etc, independently determined results, rather than a way of displaying the result from a predetermined "pick" table (or MG have done it very well & not been caught out).

 

[hippo925]

kimss, though i REALLY know how frustrating bad streaks can be, maybe you should have started the thread in another manner. i myself have vented numerous times but it's really important to keep things in perspective and that over time, you will see some freaky things. i have noticed a lot of what you have, but if the world was perfect, you would still lose over the long run, no? and if i questioned or didn't like a casino because i couldn't win... well, then all casinos in las vegas cheat and suck! with 3dice, my issue was really only that some of my deposits didn't give me a reasonable play time....high variance and all, but i exclusively play there (though some tuesdays i hit the inetbet bonus) because i like the casino, the staff, and love (and hate) the games

i bet we all have stories of ridiculous things we've seen, here are some of mine, but it doesn't mean the casinos were cheating, does it?

have i had some really bad runs? yes
have i had some really great runs? yes
have i ever seen a roulette table in vegas with 14 reds in row? yes
have i ever won $1000 with a .40 bet in vegas on a penny slot? yes (buffet mania)
have i ever lost $700 on a penny slot and had some lady sit down and win $500 on a .40 bet when i was bettin 2.00? yes
have i ever hit a jackpot on a $1 machine at the same time as someone next to me? yes
have i ever lost $300 on cleopatra betting .40 and not hit the bonus? yes

it goes on and on and on..... you kinda know what i mean.

and i didn't see it before, but vinyl's post above mine, is the best explanation for how slots might work i have ever read!! i used to think there were 5 random numbers, one for each reel, but noticing how the reels fall, it appears to me to be one random number for a set "win" with a corresponding reel layout. even for "free spin" bonuses, i feel that sometimes i was "supposed" to win 53.50, and the the algorithym shows 15 spins with wins that add up to 53.50. that would explain the whole near miss thing, where, if you were supposed to win "0", then why not show you something that was sooooo close. if each reel was random, you wouldn't see the "everything lines up except one reel" thing so often, no?

anyway, great explanation vinyl..... everyone should read that!

 

[steinhaug]

If the games DO have predictive patterns, the casinos are asking for trouble when one day the code is cracked, they will go out of business in no time!

Thanks for your post! But they will not, since the pattern is not really a pattern in my mind, but rather a forced apon skew calculated against your given payout for your entire lifespan in the casino.

Take this for example: Lets say the slots are 100% random from getcko. If your payout, overall that is, is above 95%, if a great combination is to be hit the software will just then, se to it that the one of the wheels go 1 step to far or not. If the payout is lower, the software will randomly kick in and help an almost winning combination to accually win.

This is the most logical way I see it, given we always end up around 95% in the end.

Blackjack is no problem either, and cannot be cracked for the same reason. You have a standard deck, which is truly randomized. The software will then make sure, randomly, that there will come streaks for you - and for me (casino). Preferrably the streaks go for me first, so Im sure you will deposit alot. Then you get it back, and you are already warm and will probably blew it all since withdrawing what you deposited is not normal for high rollers.

In such a million, trillion I dont know, industri you cant expect people to be truly honest.

So cracking a code, its not possible. That would be a very #dumb#, edit: silly, assumption.

If you remember Thunderstruck, with analyzing the reels. They looked very random, what was strange however was that when I looked at all the spins which had the wild in the first 4 reels, the last one was not % correct. This I noticed on several of the big wins, I even mentioned it to the math expert in here, Zoozie, but he thought there was to little data for a conclusion. However it's always fun to see that the winning spins are lacking, until you infact have filled the bank you are winning from... Hey ho silver I say!

As much as I would like to do 250.000 more spins, it takes around 2 weeks to complete and I do not have the time. Also, I need some geniouses with numbers and stats to look into the 250.000 I already have. I do not have all the time in the world,

Playcheck is there for the players, and surely MG knows people will analyze theese. This means that the tweaking must be very subtle, almost invisible. But hey, if I can "steal" the 5 rams from you one time, I will probably secure a good profit from you. Should you loose a hell of a lot, and I see you wager $2 usually, I will then see to it that you get your 5 rams. You will be very happy, and hey, the stats are suddenly 100% accurate again... Except... You know... So it's very possible, and very easy to do aswell if you have access to the source code of the MG system.

Hey I would do it, so why should we belive they are angels with white wings?

 

[steinhaug]

To sum up the BJ experience, I got an extremely lucky streak, which dissapaired after I hit +20% of my initial "total bet". Then it all went away in the same manner. I can now spend the night to look at all those nice hands I wrote down. Some would say, ahh, you had an unlucky streak and a lucky streak and an unlucky streak again, its nothing wrong. I'm still waiting for the day I accually get it the other way around... It's been 5+ years now, and day now, any day now... I hope I see it before I must sell the car.... LOL

 

[kakata]

we are lucky to have a car to sell .............many never had a car nor money enough to buy one nor to even dream about one..........
These are,probably,Chrystmas time thoughts.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks for your post! But they will not, since the pattern is not really a pattern in my mind, but rather a forced apon skew calculated against your given payout for your entire lifespan in the casino.

Take this for example: Lets say the slots are 100% random from getcko. If your payout, overall that is, is above 95%, if a great combination is to be hit the software will just then, se to it that the one of the wheels go 1 step to far or not. If the payout is lower, the software will randomly kick in and help an almost winning combination to accually win.
This is the most logical way I see it, given we always end up around 95% in the end..........

That's a very good description of the real CHEATING casino software, such as Cassinova, Oyster, and "start-your-own-casino.com". It is also how UK "Fruit Machines" work, however, this "cheating" is an exploitable weakness when it comes to UK Fruit Machines. Since you know it has to build a bank before it pays, and the reels are not random, there are patterns in some of the games that can be read once you have played the game enough. Often the make a spectacular cock-up in the "cheating" part of the code, and if this cock-up is done just right, it is possible to empty the machine with a certain playing style which involves a set sequence of choices and reactions.

To give an example, in the early 90's, a machine was released called "Pay Rise". Included was a small error in part of the code for one of the minor features, it had the effect that the small wins generated were never logged as having left the building up bank. If this feature was EXCLUSIVELY targeted, even to the extent of deliberately refusing obvious higher wins, the machine reached a state where the software believed it was so fae below percentage that it generated a win on every single spin, that could be exploited to target this minor feature. Thus it was possible to empty the entire machine from taking these small wins, which were not necessarily so small once the machine was in this state. If the machine did not have a finite amount of money in it, this process could go on forever until the player chose to "kill" the game by taking all the jackpots and big wins offerd till the software believed the percentage was closer to what it should have been.
On one occasion, I had one of these showing 60 credits, 50 owing, going "mental" and completely and utterly EMPTY (apart from the tokens in a jammed up tube which I was after, which is why I didn't "kill" the game earlier)
One can imagine the damage were an online casino to release such poor code

 

[steinhaug]

That's a very good description of the real CHEATING casino software, such as Cassinova, Oyster, and "start-your-own-casino.com". It is also how UK "Fruit Machines" work...

I know all about fruit machines, and the way they work. However what I am explaining does not include preset positions and will not be possible to detect - that's the beauty of it. The only way you will accually "notice" it is that generally all players will end up within the same range of payout.

In my example the machine operates 100% random, meaning it's no way to predict anything.

The trojan (as I would like to call the cheating software) will sit in the background and kick in at a given trigger.

When the trigger is met, could be for example if payout exceedes 120% or goes below 80%. (to make that unpredictable you randomly seed the trigger from say 110 to 121, that would depening on your wagering be all from 100 to 100.000 spins).

The trojan could, to be most transparent, be instructed to manipulate the reels 1 time only so that it wont show in the stats. One spin in between a 1000 spins is invisible. In a 120% payout situation that would mean if you infact was lucky and got a great win from the RNG, it would surpress it. Sure, you could get one more - but usually we are looking for one, not getting it kills is. The other way would be, take Pharaoh's Tomb as example, when you get the bonus you are a sure winner for the jackpot.

Same principle as with a blackjack engine. Create a streaky engine, be sure to squeeze wins in when you wager low so that it's statistically correct that you loose on higher. There are many more ways. The point is that you can do alot of cheating, and it's not even possible to notice it, unless the software is extremely "greedy" and does it a little to much.

I hope you see the difference, and that it's nothing like fruit machines. Maby it's because Im a software developer that this is so obvious to me and that is the reason you do not see my point. I hope I clarified it now.

Edit:
When I think of it the different casinoes should hire me, I could make them make real money. No more "scatter" warnings, just pure random you think, and zoozie will never see it comming!

 

[gobucs]

I'm not sure if all of this is even that complicated, although it's quite informative to get a feel for the inner workings.
My theory is far more simplistic and requires less thought (which works well for me).
That theory is: The 97% payout percentage (for example) as advertised is a teaser, and completely irrelevant, or maybe it is relevant, only not in the way the player perceives it. This is a guarantee that no matter what, you will lose. For those of us who play for profit, this is not cool. What I find more revelant is the win/loss ratios. I'm speaking of Blackjack, as that is the only game I play. (again simplistic)The natural rythym of Blackjack does not exist online. This is because randomness does not take into account how much you're betting. It doesn't take into account how much I've already won/lost. In the world of randomness, you'll win your fair share of hands, no matter what you bet. It doesn't take into consideration, anything. RANDOM
The problem is with the win/loss figures, and their relation to the size of the wager or the aggressiveness of the player.
If I play 100 hands for $1 each consistently, there is typically less than a 3% variance in dealer vs. player wins/losses. If I bet $50 100 times that variance increases to upwards of 30% advantage to the house. Now this is a hypethetical example. A true example is: $1 bet 25 times dealer wins 10, I win 10, 5 pushes. I bet $10 25x and the dealer wins 19, I win 4, 1 push. Now I realize this is only 50 hands, but the proof is in the fact that after studying 100's of thousands of hands, from every conceivable angle, it never works the other way. I've never won 15 hands in a row, I've seen the dealer do it a dozen times. More importantly, the dealer wins 5,6,7,8 hands in a row way more than typical odds would dictate. The software will build your wins on small bets and theirs on larger bets, but I still see the dealer win many times in a row, very very frequently, and the player gets his wins 1 here 2 there, and so forth. On the occasion the player wins 5 or 6 in a row it's on smaller bets, and will stop abruptly as soon as the wager is increased. I know I'm not dreaming, crazy, or stupid. This is really happening. The only way to win anything is to consistently bet low and sneak in a larger wager occasionally. If you get consistenty aggressive, they will burn you every time. The software adjusts to the players aggression. REAL RANDOM!
And I have to ask, has anyone else seen the delay in the turn card? I'm seeing this more and more now a days, and after seeing that delay I almost always take a bad beat. I have 20 he sucks 21, I have 11 he has 6, I double he wins. I split when I should and I take it up the a** again. Has anyone else seen this?
gobucs

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I wish I could comment on all I have learned in the past couple of weeks, hopefully in due time. I still am trying to determine scientifically (without the paradoxical rhetoric that I have to date from professionals) whether some (not all) of the phenomenas gobucs mentions as well as additional phenomenas not mentioned by gobucs really exist in online BJ and why or is this simply an illusion (which casino execs and others have given me some valid reasons I assume why online BJ may be perceived differently than B & M BJ but online still offers a fair game).......Enzo of 3Dice has graciously worked with me and he has brainstormed (based on our correspondence and thoughts regarding the above) and he is going way beyond the call of duty with me in trying to address all the macro not micro issues I have presented about online BJ in general. Of course, I am not at liberty to divulge his brainstorming ideas pursuant to the above....Sorry as I am having to hold my tongue for multiple reasons (none of which are malice ftr) and I realize this post may not be clear to all.

 

[gobucs]

I just spent an hour putting together a hand history of my last session to post on this forum. By the time I was done I was kicked off and couldn't retrieve what I'd done. So let me put it this way:
D=Dealer, M=Me, P=Push, S=Surrender, BK=Blackjack,SP=Split

D-BJ
P
S
D-20
S-20
M
D
D-20
D-20
D-21
D-BJ
M
D-20
M
M
M-BJ
D
D
D
D
M
P
M
M
D
M
D-BJ
D-BJ
D
S
M
D-20
M
D
D-20
M
D-20
D
D-21
M
D-20
M-BJ
P
S
M
D
D-21
D-20
D
D
D-21
D-20
M-20
SP
M-21
D-BJ
M
D-20
D-21
P-20
M-20

Initially I had the bet amount for each hand and the cards. I won't do that again. Let's just say, it's not pretty from my perspective. I could provide thousands of game logs like this, but who's got time, and what good would it really do anyway. Apparently all of these criminals are above the law.
gobucs

 

[Kenny Lingus]

Interesting thread

Let me just say this. I have witnessed some very peculiar runs of bad luck on casino games in the past. And I'm not talking about slots, but about playing card-based games, where the actual percentages in a fairly run game are easily calculated.

3Dice is the most recent casino (but certainly not the only one) that I believe that I have experienced this technique. It is subtle, for sure, but as a mathmatician I am very in tune with probabilities and nuances. The technique utilizes winning "runs" for the dealer as a way of eliminating a player's bankroll.

Realize first that the best advantage any casino has is their virtually inexhaustible bankroll (as compared to the player's). Even if the odds of a particular game were exactly even (between the player and casino) in their expected long-term payouts, the fact that the casino may have a 100, 1000, or even 10,000+ to 1 bankroll advantage to the player means that it would be extremely unlikely for the player to break the casino; however, a particular bad run would put the individual player out of business, especially at higher stakes. In a world of true-odds payouts, a casino could still make a profit just by breaking the player and winning his bankroll.

Now add to that a 2 to 5% house advantage. It would be very difficult to be a winner in the long run for the player at this disadvantage, as the more you play, the more you will lose on average. Combined that with the fact that the player's bankroll is finite and that the casino's is virtually infinite, you just will not see many winner's in the long run.

But casinos do have the problem of someone winning quickly or a large amount and cashing out or greatly reducing the size of their play. The last thing a casino wants is to lose a large bet, or string of bets, or a jackpot, and to have the player cashout without losing it back. Sure, they all know that they'll have to pay some of the players some of the time, but they really want to minimize a large hit or string of hits that leads to a large payout.

So enter a strategy of designing your games to appear consistent with the odds but one that yields far more victories or at least strings of victories to the house. Mathmatically, there are lots of different ways to do this. Many would not be detectable without knowing in advance what you were looking for, even by an in-depth review of the statistical results. But by eliminating the tendency for a player to get a good run while allowing the casino more lucrative runs of their own would virtually ensure the profits for the casino on most every player.

Do I have absolute (no pun intended) proof that this is actually occurring? No. But how many player's can swear to the fact that the casinos get way, way, way more runs of "luck" than they ever do?

 

[SlotsWizard]

If the following statement is true:

The software will build your wins on small bets and theirs on larger bets.

Then the following statement is false:

The only way to win anything is to consistently bet low and sneak in a larger wager occasionally.

If the code is rigged to make you lose, there is no way for that code to "look the other way" while you "sneak" in a larger wager. It will either know that you bet bigger or it won't.

And Kimss, as a fellow programmer, you could very easily solve this debate by creating your own fair blackjack game. Make it keep track of your bankroll and so that you can bet however much you want. Make it keep track of the return % (low point, high point, and overall), as well as dealer streaks, player streaks, and win:loss ratio for various bet sizes.

Now play several thousand hands.

Are you going to win every large bet and only lose small bets?
Are you going to win every small bet and only lose large bets?

No, it will all work out in the long run.

Saying that the casinos' RNG or software will automatically deal you predetermined wins and losses so that your long-term payback is around 95% or 97% or 99% is nonsense. The software doesn't need to do that because the mathematics takes care of it.

Believe me, I do understand what you all are saying, because I've had my fair share of "that's gotta be rigged!" moments, but when I look back at everything I've won playing blackjack, it really doesn't seem like it after all. Here was a kick-ass win from a total bet of $2,200 I made sometime last year:

Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[steinhaug]

If the following statement is true:
Then the following statement is false:

Youa are not understanding what is said here. The point he is trying to make is that your would think that if you could get alot of losses on $1 you would have better chances of winning a streak of $100 wagering. However, my posted hands show this very much. How can you still say that the software doesnt alter behaviour when changing bets occure? You have example by example here from real gameplay.

His point was merely you would go for 1 win on higher stake and crawl back to $1 again.

It is obvious for me you still live in a dissilution that online BJ game behaves like a real shuffled card of decks. Are you on medication theese days, or problem seeing the hands? Maby you dont't have played blackjack, and if you cant with a real carddeck.

Take the tournament on 3Dince as spend some hours BJing and tell me what you think, see if you feel it's random. You will quickly see patterns emerging.

And Kimss, as a fellow programmer, you could very easily solve this debate by creating your own fair blackjack game. Make it keep track of your bankroll and so that you can bet however much you want. Make it keep track of the return % (low point, high point, and overall), as well as dealer streaks, player streaks, and win:loss ratio for various bet sizes.

What purpose would that solve? Just randomice the dech and deal the cards, keep a bankroll. If you are implying that my software would give the same streaks that appear in 3Dice, or the redicilous BJ at MG you must believe I run on Exctacy all day long. Sure I could, but then you would think my soware was rigged since I didnt get the results from MG og 3Dice. You don't need much IQ to piece together that not-random cards going on.

Are you going to win every large bet and only lose small bets?
Are you going to win every small bet and only lose large bets?

I'm not 5 years old, such arguments as theese are just dumb! Do I believe this or that is completely besides the point. The fact is that higher wagering is easier to loose than lower - from the same deck. Do as we others have done, take $1000 of your own money and jump from $10 wagering to $50 wagering and tell me afterwards when your broke if you won many of the $50 bets.

Saying that the casinos' RNG or software will automatically deal you predetermined wins and losses so that your long-term payback is around 95% or 97% or 99% is nonsense. The software doesn't need to do that because the mathematics takes care of it.

Believe me, I do understand what you all are saying, because I've had my fair share of "that's gotta be rigged!" moments, but when I look back at everything I've won playing blackjack, it really doesn't seem like it after all. Here was a kick-ass win from a total bet of $2,200 I made sometime last year:

Believe you me it doesnt sound like you understand me at all. Seems to me you are still fighting the original argument - do casinoes cheat. And then comes your retorical questions for dummies.

I did have a kickass streak at 3Dice aswell, however it was after the kickass streak in the houses favour.
Each time I try to convince myself you are correct, and I'm the fool, the casinoes are 100% trustworthy - I loose a few thousands.

Just like today, 32red. I got two big wins (remember my theory about 2 wins), I so wanted to believe - I could win more. After the second win I had around 2500 in the bank. Doing 5-10 wagering, and was broke in below 30 minutes.

Sure I was unlucky again! Last time it was almost 9000 I poored down the "just had 2 hgreat wins", then it was 7000. All in the past 2 weeks, all gone. So I get the wins, but its really anoying when the system sucks mne dry in almost every game - but I guess that also is random. Unlucky streaks do occure, strangely they ALWAYS occure after 2 good wins. Atleast it has for me the last 5 years in 10+ MG casinoes.

So don't come telling me it's random when same scenario happends again and again. Hearing other players saying the same doesnt make it better, it only adds fuel to the "fact" that this is the way the systems are RIGGED.

 

[SlotsWizard]

So don't come telling me it's random when same scenario happends again and again. Hearing other players saying the same doesnt make it better, it only adds fuel to the "fact" that this is the way the systems are RIGGED.

If it's "RIGGED" then why keep playing it?

 

[AussieDave]

Hi all,

This thread re-minds me of an exert from Homer Simpson...

He repeatidly puts his hand on the hot stove with the usual Homer break of Douh!!! followed by "hot stove"... Douh!!! "hot stove"...you get the picture

This thread shares the same characteristics.

the systems are RIGGED.

You obviously feel very strongly towards this statement.

Why keep burning yourself is a question that's on my lips!



Cheers

Trezz

 

[paul02085]

Anybody who believes all of this talk about being fixed is nuts to keep playing. Why dont you just quit?

 

[Random#rs]

I believe he said he was addicted ... But this is relative to how much money you have to gamble with, and if your trying to prove something if only to yourself.

 

[Random#rs]

I have analyzed thousands of hands of BJ over many sessions at many Casinos. I've discovered that 'Random' doesn't mean anything as an attribute of any Casino's RNG; not to the player. The RNG is random.

This particular effect has been observed by many players, both professional and beginners. It is the first thing I discovered about Online BJ. I have graphed the patterns of many sessions of BJ and the Bet size skew effect does exist. But the 'Skew Trigger' .. .. is also Random. This is why the now infamous Cypher would keep his head very low and attempt to sneak up on the bet size skew trigger when it wasn't looking. This technique is volatile, but a logical approach. It is not the system I use.

All of these tests done by Firms that specialize in testing a Casino's payout and randomness are meaningless. They do not test the wager size effect and even if they did there are many strategies of varying the bet size. Real money would have to be used and the Casino could not know which player was running the test, an unlikely scenario. In any case it can be almost invisible. Countless graphs confirm the anomaly in statistical data, only visible as a small but consistent abnormality in the pattern of a vastly larger set of data.

The one question I keep asking myself, is it cheating or is it a 'protection system' that must be implemented, and could it be a little of both. If you went into a B&M with your laptop you would never get even as far as the chair and not because you might only be Counting cards. A mathematician knows that card counting is only one way of calculating a probability advantage of the outcome of the next hand; typically about 1% over the house edge in the long run.

You can play online BJ and win, I've proven that to. So that is to say some players will fall more to the worst end of this wager size 'Skew Trigger' than others. Its weighted as mentioned before. So high rollers will fall prey to it to a greater degree. You have to use a different system if you low roll with varying bet size.

I once thought I might be imagining things myself. Every player starts that way and maybe posts a complaint about it here, and is generally dismissed as "seeing things" that aren't there. Mathematics is a powerful tool so I went about to see if I was seeing things too and I discovered I wasn't. And then I learned something more...............

 

[Zoozie]

Also, my earlier MG excersice with 250.000+ spins (which I do have playcheck data from!!!) where I more or less force the bonus on Glory of Rome again and again, so we meet the wonderful 95% payout also speaks for it self.

I do not see anything unusual here. If you could force the payout% to be
anything BUT 95% on a MG slot, then I would be surprised. Even if you could forceit to be lower - like 90%.

The payout% will converge to 95% in the long run, no matter if you are
starting at 200% payout or 50% payout after 10K spins. After 10M spins you will be damn close to 95%, or whatever the slot is set to. And your results also showed this.

The idea that the software is rigged when playing for high bets is
interesting and would be very hard to prove, but I am not saying I believe in it though. The only time I have bet high was at Playtech BJ. Playing 100$ or 200$/bet and losing 6 times in a row (highest BJ bet I have ever won was 10 euro), so I understand why people get these ideas. But some high-rollers bet this stake all the time and of course they would quickly notice something this rigged.

Again it is not the RNG that is rigged, the RNG never knows what game or what stake it is generating a result from. Any cheating must be done from within the software (ie. asking the RNG for another result).

 

[steinhaug]

I do not see anything unusual here. If you could force the payout% to be
anything BUT 95% on a MG slot, then I would be surprised. Even if you could forceit to be lower - like 90%.

You really miss the point Zoozie. 95% is the global yes, and my theory is the casino will give you this. Skewing
the payout is internally between the games. Meaning I know I will get 95%. However, if I manage to loose crazy in
one game (low %) then follow up wagering another game, that will pay much better (high %). This should NOT happend,
however in MG it does. Overall you end with 95%, true, and how convinient.

There is a huge difference in what I now wrote, and what I believe you thought I ment. I would think you have 1 chance
in each casino to get out ahead of your bankroll, the first big win. After this the mechanics of the MG will ensure you
never get above 100% again. Howver, it will also make sure you nevet go below 75% whatever you wager (max bets $250).
You should try it. Also when having below 80% overall payout, pick a slot - get ready for monster win! Try it, I dare you!

When you do this, you really sit back in your chair and think... What is going on? Obvious I say!

The only time I have bet high was at Playtech BJ. Playing 100$ or 200$/bet and losing 6 times in a row (highest BJ bet I have ever won was 10 euro), so I understand why people get these ideas. But some high-rollers bet this stake all the time and of course they would quickly notice something this rigged.

Thanks for noting this. Low wagering I never complained about, you even get great payouts here at times. What I'm always
having problems with is when increasing the bet. Doing $20 spins, $40 spins and such. This is where things start to
happend. To me it seems that if you "won enough" the system will give you a dry spell, which statistically is more than
normal - howeverit's not normal that you always get it in a certain scenario.

Other high roller-spinners like me who have wasted +5k also seem to have the same opinion. Doing cheap ass spins doesn't
really count in this argument, you need high spins. Again, thanks for piointing out this.

I believe he said he was addicted ... But this is relative to how much money you have to gamble with, and if your trying to prove something if only to yourself.

Atleast someone is paying attention, And the part about proving, trying to prove you are correct that im the crazy one,
however I find myself again and again seing the suck after 2 good wins. So I should stop trying convince myself it's
possible to win after 2 wins, it isn't. Iv'e lost to much on this "point" already, it's rigged to suck you dry on high
wagers!

If it's "RIGGED" then why keep playing it?

Give Vodka to a drunk, will he drink it?

Why keep burning yourself is a question that's on my lips!

Thanks for this, maby it's extra funny in Simpsons because it's so typical human behaviour when it comes
to addictions. Let that be sex, drugs, gambling and so on. But you are right indeed, I have burned myeself
a few times that's for sure!

Anybody who believes all of this talk about being fixed is nuts to keep playing. Why dont you just quit?

If it only that simple, why don't you just stop smoking? Same thing really. Quiting doesn't solve the problem, it only eases
it, tli next time I go for Guthenburg Casino and go totally bananas since I havn't played in a while, Daily limits is
the key, this forces me to low wagering. (is the keu I said, shall BE the key that is, )

 

[mysticjoz]

Personally Kimss...
#1) The title of this thread, considering all your "flip flop" attitides is completely uncalled for. (first your angry you lose so much, admit you have a gambling problem, but when 3dice throws you a Nice bonus its ok again.. until you lose that too!)
#2) Apparently, every casino BJ is rigged (according to your opinion) which of course you are entitled to
#3) I don't care if your a "High Roller" or "one of us low rollers" ... that statement was another disrespectful comment to alot of CM members.

I think you need to follow this link.. https://www.casinomeister.com/quit-gambling/ If not.. don't complain about your losses. If you don't know when to quit when your ahead.. then don't assume everyone is out to "cheat" you. Or that 3Dice or any other online casino is "rigged" or how did you put it

Oh my GOD! God d#mn cheaters!

And, these insults to CM members are uncalled for...

It is obvious for me you still live in a dissilution that online BJ game behaves like a real shuffled card of decks. Are you on medication theese days, or problem seeing the hands? Maby you dont't have played blackjack, and if you cant with a real carddeck.

you people who still live in your bubbles, you should really think about!

Believe you me it doesnt sound like you understand me at all. Seems to me you are still fighting the original argument - do casinoes cheat. And then comes your retorical questions for dummies.

Other high roller-spinners like me who have wasted +5k also seem to have the same opinion. Doing cheap ass spins doesn't
really count in this argument, you need high spins.

You have a pretty serious problem (and quite possibly a split personality!) IMHO to make this remark

So don't come telling me it's random when same scenario happends again and again. Hearing other players saying the same doesnt make it better, it only adds fuel to the "fact" that this is the way the systems are RIGGED

Try taking a small portion of your "online gambling budget" (say 1/1000 of it) and go to a location that does "toys for tots" and Give a little. Or walk into a store and look for the mom who has tears in her eyes looking at the prices of the toys she knows she can not afford!! and Hand her the money! I bet the gratitude you get would be well worth it!! But don't assume that "low rollers" are "losers" .. I am happy to cash out a few hundred at 3dice here and there when it does happen... No they are not Perfect, but we couldn't ask for better treatment by any casino staff! (I assume since you gave the link to the website you were "endorsing 3dice??"... umm probably not cause you lost the bonus after that.)

 

[LaurieJim]

Personally Kimss...
#1) The title of this thread, considering all your "flip flop" attitides is completely uncalled for. (first your angry you lose so much, admit you have a gambling problem, but when 3dice throws you a Nice bonus its ok again.. until you lose that too!)
#2) Apparently, every casino BJ is rigged (according to your opinion) which of course you are entitled to
#3) I don't care if your a "High Roller" or "one of us low rollers" ... that statement was another disrespectful comment to alot of CM members.

I think you need to follow this link.. https://www.casinomeister.com/quit-gambling/ If not.. don't complain about your losses. If you don't know when to quit when your ahead.. then don't assume everyone is out to "cheat" you. Or that 3Dice or any other online casino is "rigged" or how did you put it
And, these insults to CM members are uncalled for...





You have a pretty serious problem (and quite possibly a split personality!) IMHO to make this remark

Try taking a small portion of your "online gambling budget" (say 1/1000 of it) and go to a location that does "toys for tots" and Give a little. Or walk into a store and look for the mom who has tears in her eyes looking at the prices of the toys she knows she can not afford!! and Hand her the money! I bet the gratitude you get would be well worth it!! But don't assume that "low rollers" are "losers" .. I am happy to cash out a few hundred at 3dice here and there when it does happen... No they are not Perfect, but we couldn't ask for better treatment by any casino staff! (I assume since you gave the link to the website you were "endorsing 3dice??"... umm probably not cause you lost the bonus after that.) [/QUOTE]...............the old mystic has returned quit your lurking and put it out there girl i agree with all the above comments you made .............................laurie

 

[steinhaug]

Point taken, however my remarks was mostly ment for the persons directly in the descussion, you should not be offended when you are not one of the people telling me me I'm the crazy one. I know this is a public forum, that doesn't mean that my comments are ment for the whole world just because you read this thread.

I have been arguing with SlotsWizard a long time over this, and I do not think he is offended by such remarks, we just have a complete different opinion.

I appologize if you and others feel offended. regarding the low-rollers comment, this was infact called for in my opinion since <$1 wagering operates and behaves quite reasonably. This is not where and when I loose and get upset, it's after big wins in $10 wagering and suddenly all slots "die". If I return to $0.36 wagering I win again, however I must admit I am not going for that $100 win, which is worthless to me honestly.

Again, sorry to have offended you in my ranting.

...but when 3dice throws you a Nice bonus its ok again.. until you lose that too!)

If I gave that opinion I have made a mistake, I found it completely strange that that streak would flip to a redicilous win streak, which magically stopped when I tipped right above what I had wagered in the same round. (that would mean I got my chance to get my 100% back).

To be crystal clear - I was not happy again. I would have been happy if I could double my deposit, which I didn't - as ususal.

EDIT: Even if I had doubled my deposit, I would still not have been happy since the way the cards were dealt was utterly madness. I would have been happy to double my money, but not the way it went. If I had doubled, I would still have the feeling, oh, I was supposed to win this - it was no strategy from my end involved since the streak was to obvious. Also, I see no need for repeating myself, however I feel this happends at every online casino. This is not a 3Dice problem, also MG. I have lost so many 1000s in MG BJ, and comparing my strategy with real cards I have to wonder. I do not lose that much there. That's all I can say.

 

[gobucs]

kimss,
I have to say that you are far more gracious and patient with the ignorant than I.
Why You, I, or anyone else does anything, whether it's quitting gambling or wiping our a** is irrelevant to the subject being discussed. I hate it when the self-righteous offer their opinions. Typically they're just blowing their own horn, and concealing their own demons.
Back to the subject at hand. "Are online casinos cheating us out of our money?"
If I play 100 hands for $1 each and have less than a 5% variance in wins/losses vs. the dealer, and then play 100 hands for $50 and see a 30% win/loss advantage for the house, would that be considered random? Of course the argument you will hear from the casinos, is that it was a bad run. I can accept that. But what if it happens twice, or three times, or every time? I can honestly say: I've never just played for an hour and decided to increase my bet and went on a rediculous winning streak. It's not for lack of trying, believe me. Common sense would tell you that eventually, maybe just every once in awhile this would work out in my favor. The fact that it never does, is the heart of the issue.
These patterns do exist. I don't want to speak for you, but I assume that your reason for the post in the first place was to see if anyone else was seeing the same things. I am. I just want a fair game of Blackjack, but have a lot of doubts as to whether one exists. I personally continue to play because of a fading hope that maybe I'm wrong, maybe I've had a bad run, maybe I'll get some back. (Yeah I know the term for this) But bad runs don't last forever in the real world, only the cyber world.
Quitting at this point does seem to be the only option because the design of the software appears to be such that they will never allow you to win any back. But they have my money, how do I just walk away from that? They just keep taking and taking and will continue to take until enough people like us shine a light on the issue and there is some sort of true, international third party regulations and testing for online gaming,implemented to truly protect the player from unfair gaming.
Until then, we're just suckers spending way too much time analyzing hours of hand histories, watching our money flow from us like blood from a stuck pig, feeling like you've been completely cheated and taken advantage of, only to have people tell you "Why don't you just quit".
For those people, I'd just say: Thanks for the advice. I never thought about that. Where were you two years and $150,000 ago? I could've bought a house, if only I'd thought about that before! Or in other words, stay on the subject, the world has enough shrinks as it is.
gobucs

 

[steinhaug]

I've never just played for an hour and decided to increase my bet and went on a rediculous winning streak. It's not for lack of trying, believe me. Common sense would tell you that eventually, maybe just every once in awhile this would work out in my favor. The fact that it never does, is the heart of the issue.

Dead on!

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Dead on!

Based on the log files that I have studied, the received Statement of Findings from fair gaming professionals and correspondence from casinos is some of the situations studied (some very simple like comparing number of 2 card 20's for the dealer versus player and some not so simple like correlations based on bet size including streaks) are skewed in favor of the casino beyond expectation but not enough standard deviations (or hands played) from expectation where the situation can be declared unfair with certainty. A number of situations are/were not skewed in either's favor but ironically over a small sample size of 10000 hands there is no significant situation (of those actually studied) or maybe one case that is very slightly skewed in the player's favor. This is what I am trying to grasp and yet remain open minded as I continue trying to understand the concepts fairly that I (one previous post) as well as some others mention in this thread. The casinos have been very cooperative. The ones I have dealt with want fair gaming assured as much as the players. That appears to be in the best interest of the industry imo. I suppose they could have told me to get lost and that I should just quit online BJ. Kudos that they did not

 

[steinhaug]

The casinos have been very cooperative.

If you take MG as an example, it's important that the casinoes have nothing to hide. They have licensed a proprietary software, for the casino what makes sense is:

1. Make money
2. Offer the best gaming experience for the player

That would mean that the casinoes have no way of influencing the system, and they want fair gaming aswell since they value their customers. In MGs case what casino one talks about doesn't really matter, it's the software that matters.

I hope it's all good, and no cheating. I just happends to be the worst player ever, I do not know how many emails I have gotten frommanagers with some words like "I must admin, that was a very bad run!". I enjoyed the audit guys comment "There system is fair, however I must admit the player had a very bad run...". I'd like to see some of those, "I must admit the player had a very good run".

Makes me wonder, loosing 2K in 25 bets is quite easy even on autoplay. Anyone ever won 2K in 25 bets? I would like to see that!

 

[The Dude]

Admin Note

Just a quick note to say...please keep the negative personal stuff at a minimum.

Negativity is not Xmas cheer!

 

[mysticjoz]

"kimss says "just because posted in public, it is not meant for e1 to read!"

Point taken, however my remarks was mostly ment for the persons directly in the descussion, you should not be offended when you are not one of the people telling me me I'm the crazy one. I know this is a public forum, that doesn't mean that my comments are ment for the whole world just because you read this thread.

I have been arguing with SlotsWizard a long time over this, and I do not think he is offended by such remarks, we just have a complete different opinion.

I appologize if you and others feel offended. regarding the low-rollers comment, this was infact called for in my opinion since <$1 wagering operates and behaves quite reasonably. This is not where and when I loose and get upset, it's after big wins in $10 wagering and suddenly all slots "die". If I return to $0.36 wagering I win again, however I must admit I am not going for that $100 win, which is worthless to me honestly.

Again, sorry to have offended you in my ranting.



If I gave that opinion I have made a mistake, I found it completely strange that that streak would flip to a redicilous win streak, which magically stopped when I tipped right above what I had wagered in the same round. (that would mean I got my chance to get my 100% back).

To be crystal clear - I was not happy again. I would have been happy if I could double my deposit, which I didn't - as ususal.

EDIT: Even if I had doubled my deposit, I would still not have been happy since the way the cards were dealt was utterly madness. I would have been happy to double my money, but not the way it went. If I had doubled, I would still have the feeling, oh, I was supposed to win this - it was no strategy from my end involved since the streak was to obvious. Also, I see no need for repeating myself, however I feel this happends at every online casino. This is not a 3Dice problem, also MG. I have lost so many 1000s in MG BJ, and comparing my strategy with real cards I have to wonder. I do not lose that much there. That's all I can say.

First off.. I was not offended before but I am offended NOW! How can you post a title in the "Online Casino's" Thread reading "Oh my god, god d#mn cheaters", if it were meant for only a select few to respond to? Or is it that If you don't like what you hear from anyone else ... they're not invited into the conversation?
And where is the reply regarding the christmas spirit..???

for you Gobucks and this....

kimss,
I have to say that you are far more gracious and patient with the ignorant than I.
Why You, I, or anyone else does anything, whether it's quitting gambling or wiping our a** is irrelevant to the subject being discussed. I hate it when the self-righteous offer their opinions. Typically they're just blowing their own horn, and concealing their own demons.

I hope many, many more CM members are here to join in on this one. How dare you call me "ignorant" , "self-righteous" , "blowing my own horn" or ,, this is a laugh.... "concealing my demons"!! First of all.. I do not know you from the next person... But then again..... do i????
Second of all.. yeah, that's me.. that's why I mentioned taking one one thousandth of the gambling budget and looking for the mom who is holding back tears trying to buy her kids gifts for christmas! (I myself found a family who lost everything! I gave them christmas ornaments, clothing, games for their kids! and I am not "rich" I just have a huge heart and...
FYI I AM ENTITLED TO POST MY OPINION!
Lauriejim, thank you for letting me know to throw in my two cents more often,,, yes I have been watching for quite a while and I will not stand here and have a rude, obnoxious, "bully" try to silence my opinion when posting in a PUBLIC forum!!
It seems to me the ignorant and self righteous ones here are the ones who want to try to find fault in thier own "compulsive and obsessive behaviour!".. I do think alot of you would agree with me to consider some of these remarks,, especially gobucs' "ignorant" remark . .. Flaming!!
Suggestion... kimss and gobucs ... we here at CM have a PM feature! Great for anything you don't want all members involved in!! Or post in a more private thread ... "By invite only... kimss, gobucs, slotswizard... etc.. are the only members invited to participate!" otherwise... consider it public unless of course Bryan wants to move your "flaming" thread to another location,,, that I would back 100%!!

 

[steinhaug]

Just a quick note to say...please keep the negative personal stuff at a minimum.

No problem.

First off.. I was not offended before but I am offended NOW!

Clearly you are more offended than me, you are the one exploding here on the personal level.

I will not give you the pleasure in commenting further into your rant, except this:

How can you post a title in the "Online Casino's" Thread reading "Oh my god, god d#mn cheaters", if it were meant for only a select few to respond to?

You may respond, that is why I post here. You getting upset from the word "low-roller" is another thread. low-roller and high-roller are words used in the industri, so one should not be offended for belonging in either one.

Also, last couple of hours I lost another 1K of euroes between Dash and 32Red, so excuse me for calling myself a high-roller. I should be the offended one accually, since I much more would like to be a low-roller!

Why do all threads on the net upset or anoy some people? Did I ask for attacks, or did someone feel attacked for some reason? Seriously people, are we all teenagers? I would hope not!

Merry christmas.

 

[promqueen]

The only way to win at casinos is to play the small bets and walk away. Theres so many to choose from and the sign up bonuses are worth digging in to. Problem is we get hooked on the graphics instead of cashing in. Its all addictive you know?

 

[mysticjoz]

The only way to win at casinos is to play the small bets and walk away. Theres so many to choose from and the sign up bonuses are worth digging in to. Problem is we get hooked on the graphics instead of cashing in. Its all addictive you know?

Welcome to the forum promqueen!

Kimss Enlighten me you say

You getting upset from the word "low-roller" is another thread. low-roller and high-roller are words used in the industri, so one should not be offended for belonging in either one.

Where did I get "upset about that?" .... this was my first reply. I guess saying "us low rollers" gives you the right to act as if our opinion is null and void... hmm

Personally Kimss...
#1) The title of this thread, considering all your "flip flop" attitides is completely uncalled for. (first your angry you lose so much, admit you have a gambling problem, but when 3dice throws you a Nice bonus its ok again.. until you lose that too!)
#2) Apparently, every casino BJ is rigged (according to your opinion) which of course you are entitled to
#3) I don't care if your a "High Roller" or "one of us low rollers" ... that statement was another disrespectful comment to alot of CM members.

I think you need to follow this link.. https://www.casinomeister.com/quit-gambling/ If not.. don't complain about your losses. If you don't know when to quit when your ahead.. then don't assume everyone is out to "cheat" you. Or that 3Dice or any other online casino is "rigged" or how did you put it
And, these insults to CM members are uncalled for...

You have a pretty serious problem (and quite possibly a split personality!) IMHO to make this remark

Try taking a small portion of your "online gambling budget" (say 1/1000 of it) and go to a location that does "toys for tots" and Give a little. Or walk into a store and look for the mom who has tears in her eyes looking at the prices of the toys she knows she can not afford!! and Hand her the money! I bet the gratitude you get would be well worth it!! But don't assume that "low rollers" are "losers" .. I am happy to cash out a few hundred at 3dice here and there when it does happen... No they are not Perfect, but we couldn't ask for better treatment by any casino staff! (I assume since you gave the link to the website you were "endorsing 3dice??"... umm probably not cause you lost the bonus after that.)

...............the old mystic has returned quit your lurking and put it out there girl i agree with all the above comments you made .............................laurie

and you with this ..

I appologize if you and others feel offended. regarding the low-rollers comment, this was infact called for in my opinion since <$1 wagering operates and behaves quite reasonably. This is not where and when I loose and get upset,
Again, sorry to have offended you in my ranting.

AND How about this???.............

where you quite obviously just said to ME

I will not give you the pleasure in commenting further into your rant, except this:

I don't think responding to your post, or even defending myself and many other forum members is "ranting" We have "newcomers here" who do not need to think if they participate in an open forum they will be verbally attacked for stating thier opinion. (you will I am sure twist and turn this statement.. It is a mute point as far as I am concerned and I can guarantee you my participation will be ceased unless this "thread" is either taken to a private "invite only" place, or taken on as a PM conversation. ALL 10,000+ members are invited to participate here... (big ooops on your part)
previously it was this....

however my remarks was mostly ment for the persons directly in the descussion, you should not be offended when you are not one of the people telling me me I'm the crazy one. I know this is a public forum, that doesn't mean that my comments are ment for the whole world just because you read this thread.

and follow with this!!

You may respond, that is why I post here. You getting upset from the word "low-roller" is another thread. low-roller and high-roller are words used in the industri, so one should not be offended for belonging in either one.

You repeatedly bash the low roller when I NEVER mention IT!! .. you have a "grandious" attitude and personally... I agree with the rest of the members.., (rotflmao)

You are up and down, you say one thing and deny it! then say it again...
Then turn it around...

PS.. Just read your post about the christmas bonuses......

I wish they would. To be honest, anything below $500 is considered a bribe and is taken as an insult by me! One might expect those "wee.. christmas $10 for you", or "christmas %100 match" or so with christmas WR attached.
I've wagered quite some thousands in December, but no christmas goodies has been thrown at me by any casino. Maby I wager and loose to much, no reason to please paying customers I would guess, it's normal business logic.
Would be interesting to see if any casino infact do credit their customers in the name of Kris Kringle... Ho Ho Ho! (which by the way got the best of me the other day)

then this....rotflmao

I just got myself $300 in bonus myself, hower who could have known that Mega Moolah needed almost 500 spins for freespin... There was to little gasoline left in the engine afterwards to get it back on the road, Maby it's closing time for the jackpot, it's really stingy theese days!

Stingy indeed.... merry christmas to all....... and to all a Good Night!

 

[steinhaug]

I will not give you the pleasure in commenting further into your rant

Jupp. Please share your insight on randomness instead mysticjoz and stay on topic!

 

[SlotsWizard]

There will always be three sides to this issue:

1. Players who think the games play fair
2. Players who don't think the games play fair
3. The programmers who know what really happens

I am (for the most part, for most software brands) a member of group #1. Kimss and Gobucs are clearly members of group #2.

But none of us know for sure. The only way we could possibly know is by examining the source code for both the RNG and the games that use its output.

Until us players can get our hands on that source code, the debate shall continue fruitlessly.

Merry Christmas.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

But none of us know for sure.

Agree! So I would add this to your list (i.e. those who think they do not know if fair or unfair------>> simply not sure of either)

 

[tim5ny]

By the way,

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is their website. A unique casino aswell, the only one with that software. Lovely graphics.

A genuine conversion halfway through the thread! I've read about those kinds of things in the Bible.. but to see it first-hand is totally breathtaking!