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North Korea and US politics

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goatwack said:
Oprah 2020! :cheerleader:
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Steviedoo said:
Remember when a high ranking Obama,Clinton, Bush jr, Bush, Ford White House official wrote an anonymous op-ed suggesting the President was unstable?


Me neither.
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Remember that other time there were over 50k sealed indictments just sitting around waiting to be cracked open? Me neither.

I think there is a good possibility that a high ranking Trump official isn't pleased with their future prospects. Of course I don't know that. I'm just saying it's a possibility.
 
Kelly Jo said:
Remember that other time there were over 50k sealed indictments just sitting around waiting to be cracked open? Me neither.

I think there is a good possibility that a high ranking Trump official isn't pleased with their future prospects. Of course I don't know that. I'm just saying it's a possibility.
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Wanna venture a guess at who wrote it?
 
Steviedoo said:
Remember when a high ranking Obama,Clinton, Bush jr, Bush, Ford White House official wrote an anonymous op-ed suggesting the President was unstable?


Me neither.
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The comedy show is about to reach its climax! :D :D :D

EDIT: I predicted this kind of thing right from the start! It was only a question of when, not if.
 
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vorcirion said:
Well it's nice that you learned Tucker's whataboutisms when you don't want to acknowledge your own problems. Yes we have problems in Europe too and we're trying to fix them. But your president is still the most ridiculous thing seen in a while and you keep supporting him anyway.
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Who said it was not acknowledged? I'm just grounded and don't get hysterical.
I always want the president to succeed no matter who sits in the oval office.

The founding fathers put protections in when they created the structure of the government.
 
vorcirion said:
Well it's nice that you learned Tucker's whataboutisms when you don't want to acknowledge your own problems. Yes we have problems in Europe too and we're trying to fix them. But your president is still the most ridiculous thing seen in a while and you keep supporting him anyway.
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Kind of ironic, seeing as how many participants in this thread practice "allaboutisms." The focus is always Trump. Nothing any other world leader does matters. (Goatwacks Dancing May post aside) God forbid anyone drops a reference to issues outside of America. (unless, of course, Trump can be blamed for said issue.)
 
Kelly Jo said:
Kind of ironic, seeing as how many participants in this thread practice "allaboutisms." The focus is always Trump. Nothing any other world leader does matters. (Goatwacks Dancing May post aside) God forbid anyone drops a reference to issues outside of America. (unless, of course, Trump can be blamed for said issue.)
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Feel free to criticize any other country you like. Nothing is stopping you. Take your best shot!
 
slotplayer said:
Who said it was not acknowledged? I'm just grounded and don't get hysterical.
I always want the president to succeed no matter who sits in the oval office.

The founding fathers put protections in when they created the structure of the government.
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Hypothetical: if you had David Duke sitting in the oval office. Would you want him to succeed?
 
slotplayer said:
Succeed in office, within reason of course.

btw, where do you get your news? Question it.
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Don’t know why you even responded to this question. But since you did.

Where do you get your news from?
Not bringing back slavery and abolishing everyone and anyone who isn’t white is that what you call succeed within reason?

Come on slotplayer, you know better than to answer questions like these that bait you into these type of discussions that make the USA look bad.
 
Steviedoo said:
Don’t know why you even responded to this question. But since you did.

Where do you get your news from?
Not bringing back slavery and abolishing everyone and anyone who isn’t white is that what you call succeed within reason?

Come on slotplayer, you know better than to answer questions like these that bait you into these type of discussions that make the USA look bad.
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Thing is, in the Tommy R. thread there was a BBC link posted to an article, in the article was another link to a BBC negative USA article, go read that article and there was another BBC link to another negative USA article. Seeing the BBC is most watched world wide (Fox is #2) it prompted my question as to where the member received their news and perhaps their warped view of the USA.

Maybe its improved since 2010, but go read the last post (#3). No way you could do that here in the USA.

so true
 
slotplayer said:
Succeed in office, within reason of course.

btw, where do you get your news? Question it.
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Msnbc most often. Something wrong with them except reporting what Trump says and does? Well I do skip Lawrence O'Donnell 'cause he's completely biased just like the majority of Fox.
Without MSM we probably wouldn't know any of these crazy things Trump does all the time.
And Fox has become basically state run media. Burying all the negative news about Trump and there are plenty. So to me it's worrying that so many read fox news. Would think that Hillary is the president since they do more reporting on her than Trump I think.
 
slotplayer said:
Succeed in office, within reason of course.

btw, where do you get your news? Question it.
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And that I don't understand how you can be for someone...who might give you what you want (tax cuts, tougher stance on immigration), but he destroys everything else. No civility, no moral standards, no leadership...or do you even care about any of these issues? It's like you don't care if the leader is a criminal as long as you get what you want too.
 
vorcirion said:
Msnbc most often. Something wrong with them except reporting what Trump says and does? Well I do skip Lawrence O'Donnell 'cause he's completely biased just like the majority of Fox.
Without MSM we probably wouldn't know any of these crazy things Trump does all the time.
And Fox has become basically state run media. Burying all the negative news about Trump and there are plenty. So to me it's worrying that so many read fox news. Would think that Hillary is the president since they do more reporting on her than Trump I think.
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MSNBC is considered the far left progressive station here. Everything is Hysteria with them now. I used to watch Morning Joe but its become nothing but a 3 hour "T" bash fest. Same for the Obama years, I didn't watch Fox n Friends because it was another 3 hour "Obama" bash fest. I used to like Rachel Maddow as well but she has become unglued because H. Clinton lost.

Ask yourself why so many follow Fox news, perhaps the reason is the pro "T" stories v.s the negative "T" stories are almost even?

"CNN and NBC struck a 93 percent negative tone on their Trump stories, with only 7 percent positive. CBS was third in the anti-Trump race, with a 91 to 9 ratio. And the pro-Trump Fox News? That network was 52 percent negative to 48 percent positive."

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Something gradually happened to the bbc probably from 95 onwards, they're trying desperately everyday to control the 'narrative' and people's minds. The bbc washington correspondent Jon Sopel is the most excited and agitated I 've ever seen him when he's covering a negative Trump story, it's only a couple of levels down from deranged.

Watched a few youtube vids last night on Detroit :eek: it looks like something out of fallout 4, this has all happened during the time when you've had two democrat presidents serving their maximum 2 terms plus the bush father and son combo. I bet there are more places like detroit too, no wonder people voted Trump they're desperate for some sort of change, I'm sure if you had a sensible democrat opposition they could win the next election but you just can't have another clinton/obama type, you need somebody who can turn the tide of disorder and decay.

We've got similar issues in the UK, houses in liverpool up for sale for a few quid because the area is a boarded up, no go zone. We're probably going to end up with a Trump type prime minister at some point because the average politician is worse than useless, inevitably a maverick throws the hat in the ring whether any long term good comes from this is yet to be seen.
 
mack341 said:
Something gradually happened to the bbc probably from 95 onwards, they're trying desperately everyday to control the 'narrative' and people's minds. The bbc washington correspondent Jon Sopel is the most excited and agitated I 've ever seen him when he's covering a negative Trump story, it's only a couple of levels down from deranged.

Watched a few youtube vids last night on Detroit :eek: it looks like something out of fallout 4, this has all happened during the time when you've had two democrat presidents serving their maximum 2 terms plus the bush father and son combo. I bet there are more places like detroit too, no wonder people voted Trump they're desperate for some sort of change, I'm sure if you had a sensible democrat opposition they could win the next election but you just can't have another clinton/obama type, you need somebody who can turn the tide of disorder and decay.

We've got similar issues in the UK, houses in liverpool up for sale for a few quid because the area is a boarded up, no go zone. We're probably going to end up with a Trump type prime minister at some point because the average politician is worse than useless, inevitably a maverick throws the hat in the ring whether any long term good comes from this is yet to be seen.
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Your assessment never ceases to amaze me.
 
mack341 said:
Something gradually happened to the bbc probably from 95 onwards, they're trying desperately everyday to control the 'narrative' and people's minds. The bbc washington correspondent Jon Sopel is the most excited and agitated I 've ever seen him when he's covering a negative Trump story, it's only a couple of levels down from deranged.

Watched a few youtube vids last night on Detroit :eek: it looks like something out of fallout 4, this has all happened during the time when you've had two democrat presidents serving their maximum 2 terms plus the bush father and son combo. I bet there are more places like detroit too, no wonder people voted Trump they're desperate for some sort of change, I'm sure if you had a sensible democrat opposition they could win the next election but you just can't have another clinton/obama type, you need somebody who can turn the tide of disorder and decay.

We've got similar issues in the UK, houses in liverpool up for sale for a few quid because the area is a boarded up, no go zone. We're probably going to end up with a Trump type prime minister at some point because the average politician is worse than useless, inevitably a maverick throws the hat in the ring whether any long term good comes from this is yet to be seen.
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Easy to blame everything on politicians.

Please read up on how many local jobs disappeared in the last 50 years due to automation, global supply chain management and third, basically pure greed of the corporations and investors. No politician, no matter what kind of wizard he or she would have been, could have stopped that. FYI, the US were the main drivers on globalisation. To cry wolf now is rather hypocritical. Instead of spending some of the extra profits on re-training / educating the laid-off workers for future jobs, corporations divided the money between the investors and themselves. Plus, it has become a habit of governments to cut the education budgets, instead of increasing it.

The Liverpool scenario in the UK is due to the end of the coal/steel era which led not just to the job losses in that industry but also a lot more down the supply chain. The problem could have been solved better if your governments/companies laying off people/mayors etc would have invested more in education for future/new type of jobs and would have created more opportunities for such jobs. Second, the "working class"' people in the UK are rather reluctant to leave their "nest".

Not saying other countries, e.g. Germany, France, have been doing a much better job. Automation is a global issue which can never be turned back. Same goes for global supply chains. Google e.g. how many companies contribute to an iPhone and through how many countries each part is going through from the raw material to the finished phone. These are highely interlinked and complex supply chains, which have been established over years or even decades. Nobody will be able to break them up completely, not even Mr. T.
 
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Harry_BKK said:
Please read up on how many local jobs disappeared in the last 50 years due to automation, global supply chain management and third, basically pure greed of the corporations and investors. No politician, no matter what kind of wizard he or she would have been, could have stopped that.
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I agree the motivation was the pure greed of the corporations and investors, but I disagree that politicians couldn't have stopped or reduced it to an acceptable minimum, but they were working instead in the interests of the 1%. The failings of the previous administrations have led to Trump taking office, and it will likely be the failure of the democrats to field a common sense, old school style candidate who can win back the necessary trust and votes from middle america that means Trump wins a 2nd term.

It is a good question though as to whether Germany and France have done a better job in protecting their manufacturing base/jobs during globalisation? I don't see an equivalent of detroit in france/germany/austria/sweden etc....

Where the US goes we in the UK tend to follow, drugs and gang crime, failing schools etc.. we are getting more areas you'd not feel safe walking through at night. Nigel Farage is probably the closest to a maverick politician in terms of views that challenge the establishment and the way things are, if we had a presidential system he'd probably win more individual votes than Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May.
 
mack341 said:
I agree the motivation was the pure greed of the corporations and investors, but I disagree that politicians couldn't have stopped or reduced it to an acceptable minimum, but they were working instead in the interests of the 1%. The failings of the previous administrations have led to Trump taking office, and it will likely be the failure of the democrats to field a common sense, old school style candidate who can win back the necessary trust and votes from middle america that means Trump wins a 2nd term.

It is a good question though as to whether Germany and France have done a better job in protecting their manufacturing base/jobs during globalisation? I don't see an equivalent of detroit in france/germany/austria/sweden etc....

Where the US goes we in the UK tend to follow, drugs and gang crime, failing schools etc.. we are getting more areas you'd not feel safe walking through at night. Nigel Farage is probably the closest to a maverick politician in terms of views that challenge the establishment and the way things are, if we had a presidential system he'd probably win more individual votes than Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May.
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How do you stop automation? No chance, whatever you do. That is where the biggest part of the jobs have been lost. I remember walking the first time into the Crown factory in Perrywood, UK, my first ever assignment. The place was full of people, but by the time I left the UK they were down from 1500 to 700. And today, I think there are no more than 200 or it might have even closed. There was no production shift to other places, just pure automation of processes.

The only thing that you can do is prepare for the future. Educate, train, support! - In my view that is where politicians failed. Staying in the past will get you nowhere. And Mr. T will fail even more because instead of focusing on the future, he wants to bring back the past. The US will soon export more in services than products, nobody can stop that trend. But you can invest in the future of the young generation, which Mr. T clearly does not as the significant reduction of the education budget shows.

German politicians were just as bad in the 80's and 90's where they did everything to protect the "old" industries and a few years later they were still gone. You only have to go back to the 80's and 90's in the Ruhrarea..... a black hole which today is greener than the rest of the country. It took time but they turned it around and today the region is flourishing with new industries.

The other positive side effect is that you have yearly thousands of people less dying of some lung or other heavy industry linked diseases.
 
Harry_BKK said:
How do you stop automation? No chance, whatever you do. That is where the biggest part of the jobs have been lost. I remember walking the first time into the Crown factory in Perrywood, UK, my first ever assignment. The place was full of people, but by the time I left the UK they were down from 1500 to 700. And today, I think there are no more than 200 or it might have even closed. There was no production shift to other places, just pure automation of processes.

The only thing that you can do is prepare for the future. Educate, train, support! - In my view that is where politicians failed. Staying in the past will get you nowhere. And Mr. T will fail even more because instead of focusing on the future, he wants to bring back the past. The US will soon export more in services than products, nobody can stop that trend. But you can invest in the future of the young generation, which Mr. T clearly does not as the significant reduction of the education budget shows.

German politicians were just as bad in the 80's and 90's where they did everything to protect the "old" industries and a few years later they were still gone. You only have to go back to the 80's and 90's in the Ruhrarea..... a black hole which today is greener than the rest of the country. It took time but they turned it around and today the region is flourishing with new industries.

The other positive side effect is that you have yearly thousands of people less dying of some lung or other heavy industry linked diseases.
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I agree with much of your last two posts, I feel the process of change needs to be managed with a lot more humanity than it has been, in the areas in the uk which had coal mines closed they have gone on to suffer real hardship and poverty, and this lead to crime and drug problems/addiction etc.. going through the roof, which has probably cost more than keeping the mines open.

You've given constructive criticism on where you think Trump is making a mistake trying to bring back heavy industry, but I don't think the cnn's nsbc's and political establishment etc.. who are Trump's arch critics, pushed for the kind of policies around education and retraining that were needed, they just watched as all the factories and industries were closed one by one, possibly because the 1% who also own the press would have had to put their hand in their pocket to fund the training and re employment.

Apparently Ford closed their detroit car making plants and reopened them in canada and mexico, was that really necessary I wonder, employing canadians instead of americans can't be that much cheaper? Plus I've heard that the canadian health system works well and is pretty good, so why didn't obama and now Trump just copy it?
 
Whatever bully-boy tactics Trump used seem to have worked for the time being. It was all looking so different a year ago!

So good news then. Less '5 minutes to Midnight', more like twenty :D

'Unwavering Trust' sounds a lot better on the surface than 'We'll hit them with Fire and Brimstone'

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vorcirion said:
And that I don't understand how you can be for someone...who might give you what you want (tax cuts, tougher stance on immigration), but he destroys everything else. No civility, no moral standards, no leadership...or do you even care about any of these issues? It's like you don't care if the leader is a criminal as long as you get what you want too.
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Cuz we've had 3 decades of promises and little to show for it.

You mean this civility from 2007?

 
goatwack said:
Whatever bully-boy tactics Trump used seem to have worked for the time being. It was all looking so different a year ago!

So good news then. Less '5 minutes to Midnight', more like twenty :D

'Unwavering Trust' sounds a lot better on the surface than 'We'll hit them with Fire and Brimstone'

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
Click to expand...

Are you that naive too mate when it comes to NK? :rolleyes: :D
 
mack341 said:
I agree with much of your last two posts, I feel the process of change needs to be managed with a lot more humanity than it has been, in the areas in the uk which had coal mines closed they have gone on to suffer real hardship and poverty, and this lead to crime and drug problems/addiction etc.. going through the roof, which has probably cost more than keeping the mines open.

You've given constructive criticism on where you think Trump is making a mistake trying to bring back heavy industry, but I don't think the cnn's nsbc's and political establishment etc.. who are Trump's arch critics, pushed for the kind of policies around education and retraining that were needed, they just watched as all the factories and industries were closed one by one, possibly because the 1% who also own the press would have had to put their hand in their pocket to fund the training and re employment.

Apparently Ford closed their detroit car making plants and reopened them in canada and mexico, was that really necessary I wonder, employing canadians instead of americans can't be that much cheaper? Plus I've heard that the canadian health system works well and is pretty good, so why didn't obama and now Trump just copy it?
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Humanity got lost a long time ago mate. Numbers are important, the rest is exchangeable/removeable at any time.

I have one good example from Germany - Deutsche Bank, you can read how they managed to run the pinnacle of reliable employer nearly into the ground, trying to increase their profit margins to above 20%, 10-12% was not enough. Today, there is not a week where they are in the headlines with some scandal where they got caught doing alll sorts of things, borderline legal and illegal, to increase their profits.

There was virtually a competition/run of the big corporations as to who can outsource more/better, produce cheaper etc, starting in the mid to late 80s. Basically, who would get the best value for their shareholders. You might want to ask the generation of your dad, who usually would take a job at a company and stay there for their entire work life from apprenticeship to retirement. They were the first to suffer the consequences of the globalisation, because governments had no plan/clue what to do and companies didn't care.

As to Ford and US, some of the things are related to NAFTA, which was expected. Until then it was rather prohibitive to produce outside the US. NAFTA removed a lot of barriers and tariffs. But the flow of companies was both ways, not just US companies moving to MX/CA.
 
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slotplayer said:
Who cares. Life is too short.
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Well, you accuse others of empty promises for 3 decades, only fair that you show what is different now. But then you never engage in a proper debate. Life is to short eh, but long enough for "whataboutism", misleading quotes and videos etc.? :rolleyes:

e.g. The trade deficit with China increased by 15% this year alone, last month it increased to a record level. Hmmm, Mr. T winning winning and winning! Or is it an empty promise? :D
 
Harry_BKK said:
Well, you accuse others of empty promises for 3 decades, only fair that you show what is different now. But then you never engage in a proper debate. Life is to short eh, but long enough for "whataboutism", misleading quotes and videos etc.? :rolleyes:

e.g. The trade deficit with China increased by 15% this year alone, last month it increased to a record level. Hmmm, Mr. T winning winning and winning! Or is it an empty promise? :D
Click to expand...

Again who cares?
 
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