Nektan's new bonus will disadvantage some players

[maxd]

ThePogg just published an excellent article detailing Nektan's new 25% DB / 4xBonusMaxWD offering:

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.

Long story short: receive a 25% deposit bonus and have your winnings capped at Deposit + 1 x Deposit (= Deposit + 4 x Bonus which is the terminology Nektan uses).

So yes, no matter what you win all you can hope to get back is your 2 x deposit, the rest is forfeit.

Given that it's an automatic deposit you'll probably have to be unusually vigilant to even notice that you've received the bonus, especially if you make a modest deposit to begin with.

Enjoy!

[noparse]layer-shoots-self-in-head:[/noparse]

 

[RichyJ75]

Phew, thankfully I don't play there anymore. Ages back I asked CS if I had a closed account with them as I had a few open accounts there, CS said no, I didn't have a closed account then proceeded to SE me on all accounts. Go figure that one out!! Didn't realise they were doing me a favour!

 

[dunover]

Thanks! I am just about to remove them from my sites, this is the final straw. I am also going to report this to the UKGC. OK for cash but their bonus entrapment is getting worse, so no more. I was speaking to ThePOGG the other day about this, but I didn't know his dossier would be this bad!

Just FYI:

DO NOT TAKE ANY BONUSES AT, ChompCasino, SapphireRooms, SpinPrincess, JackpotStrike, PotsOfLuck which are their 5 main casinos.

Even the 100% bonus is capped at 2XD w/d so avoid that.

Right, off to remove them.....

 

[maxd]

FTR: I'd initially misread, thought it was 1 x Deposit = Max WD. Actually it's 2 x Deposit = Max WD. Still shit for a 25% DB.

 

[mimi26]

Thanks! I am just about to remove them from my sites, this is the final straw. I am also going to report this to the UKGC. OK for cash but their bonus entrapment is getting worse, so no more. I was speaking to ThePOGG the other day about this, but I didn't know his dossier would be this bad!

Just FYI:

DO NOT TAKE ANY BONUSES AT, ChompCasino, SapphireRooms, SpinPrincess, JackpotStrike, PotsOfLuck which are their 5 main casinos.

Even the 100% bonus is capped at 2XD w/d so avoid that.

Right, off to remove them.....

I would like you to tell them they are being removed and reported just to see what their response is

 

[dunover]

FTR: I'd initially misread, thought it was 1 x Deposit = Max WD. Actually it's 2 x Deposit = Max WD. Still shit for a 25% DB.

Well I'd better go back and amend the tirade of abuse I just added to my site....

P.S. Done and gone for good, even at 2x D limit I still drew a bit of flak for promoting them, so auf wiedersehen Nektan!

 

[Jono777]

How can 2 x whatever as a w/d cap be even remotely considered as gambling full stop

I'd love to meet one of the dicks behind these rules.













In a dark alley with a pair of pliers and a blow torch!

 

[ThePOGG]

I would absolutely agree with much of the sentiment here, but I would also put this in context.

This does NOT extend to ALL bonuses. The testing shows that where a 4x max win cap exists the problems occur with small percentage bonuses and small deposit sizes with mid percentage bonuses. It's not accurate to say that all bonuses are problematic in the nature the article highlighted.

That said, I did not realise that the win cap was reduced to 2x for larger percentage bonuses. If there's sufficient interest I would be happy to test these under similar criteria to assess these bonuses.

My issue, and what I'm trying to highlight in the article, is that a "bonus" is a positive thing. It should deliver some advantage. Where the terms are so restrictive as to make the player better off without the additional funds, even describing the funds as a "bonus" is factually inaccurate and I don't think many consumers would disagree with this being described as an "unethical marketing practice".

Finally, I just wanted to voice personal agreement with the sentiment of some of the posters above - when you play a slots game, all of the fun is taken out of it when you can only win 1x your deposit. This isn't gambling, it just giving your money to the operator.

TP

 

[Tirilej]

I hope those who read the free spin thread also read this thread. I constantly see some of the names there.

It was a lot of casinos listed at The Pogg. I would like to see them on the Not Recommended here too. Behind these casinos there's no people who care about players at all, that's very clear.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I would absolutely agree with much of the sentiment here, but I would also put this in context.

This does NOT extend to ALL bonuses. The testing shows that where a 4x max win cap exists the problems occur with small percentage bonuses and small deposit sizes with mid percentage bonuses. It's not accurate to say that all bonuses are problematic in the nature the article highlighted.

That said, I did not realise that the win cap was reduced to 2x for larger percentage bonuses. If there's sufficient interest I would be happy to test these under similar criteria to assess these bonuses.

My issue, and what I'm trying to highlight in the article, is that a "bonus" is a positive thing. It should deliver some advantage. Where the terms are so restrictive as to make the player better off without the additional funds, even describing the funds as a "bonus" is factually inaccurate and I don't think many consumers would disagree with this being described as an "unethical marketing practice".

Finally, I just wanted to voice personal agreement with the sentiment of some of the posters above - when you play a slots game, all of the fun is taken out of it when you can only win 1x your deposit. This isn't gambling, it just giving your money to the operator.

TP

I have yet to see any bonus at any Nektan skin where the conversion is not capped at 4x bonus, e.g. their Christmas Calendar had 100%, 50% and other bonuses all was capped at 4x bonus.

They also cap the conversion on winnings from Free Spins at 4x FS winnings. So if you won 50p from 10 Starburst spins you can withdraw a ma-HOO-ssive 2$!

What should be noted though is that a player can withdraw as long as he has not touched the bonus money.

 

[dunover]

I would absolutely agree with much of the sentiment here, but I would also put this in context.

This does NOT extend to ALL bonuses. The testing shows that where a 4x max win cap exists the problems occur with small percentage bonuses and small deposit sizes with mid percentage bonuses. It's not accurate to say that all bonuses are problematic in the nature the article highlighted.

That said, I did not realise that the win cap was reduced to 2x for larger percentage bonuses. If there's sufficient interest I would be happy to test these under similar criteria to assess these bonuses.

My issue, and what I'm trying to highlight in the article, is that a "bonus" is a positive thing. It should deliver some advantage. Where the terms are so restrictive as to make the player better off without the additional funds, even describing the funds as a "bonus" is factually inaccurate and I don't think many consumers would disagree with this being described as an "unethical marketing practice".

Finally, I just wanted to voice personal agreement with the sentiment of some of the posters above - when you play a slots game, all of the fun is taken out of it when you can only win 1x your deposit. This isn't gambling, it just giving your money to the operator.

TP

I'd use the word 'incentive' as opposed to advantage in general, the only exception being the rocking horse poo EV+ offers. All EV- bonuses i.e. the huge majority of them, mathematically reduce the chance of cashing-out a profit on any given deposit as opposed to cash no-bonus play. I think most players would interpret the context of 'advantage' with a pecuniary definition.

I agree though that Nektan should NOT use the term 'bonus' - when I made a quick calculation (not as accurate as your precision examples) that a player would be 7x more likely to lose WITH it I thought I'd messed-up until I read your detailed analysis! It's even worse than that at certain stakes!

Great professional report and analysis, congrats for the effort.

 

[dusky]

Wow, that is insane!

Surely this is exactly what the UKGC should be looking at, as it is for want of a better word, theft.

 

[ThePOGG]

I'd use the word 'incentive' as opposed to advantage in general, the only exception being the rocking horse poo EV+ offers. All EV- bonuses i.e. the huge majority of them, mathematically reduce the chance of cashing-out a profit on any given deposit as opposed to cash no-bonus play. I think most players would interpret the context of 'advantage' wit a pecuniary definition.

I agree though that Nektan should NOT use the term 'bonus' - when I made a quick calculation (not as accurate as your precision examples) that a player would be 7x more likely to lose WITH it I thought I'd messed-up until I read your detailed analysis! It's even worse than that at certain stakes!

Great professional report and analysis, congrats for the effort.

Thanks!

There's a big difference between the 'chance of cashing out' and the 'mathematically expected average results'. The chance of cashing out could theoretically reduce while the average expected value improves. The majority of bonuses, even where they are -EV, do improve the expected results for the player over that of playing without a bonus. Even with the 4x win cap, the bonuses offered by Nektan improve the value (or reduce the loss) that players collectively receive on average. Those bonuses are an advantage to the player even if they reduce the possibility of cashing out.

TP

 

[dunover]

Thanks!

There's a big difference between the 'chance of cashing out' and the 'mathematically expected average results'. The chance of cashing out could theoretically reduce while the average expected value improves. The majority of bonuses, even where they are -EV, do improve the expected results for the player over that of playing without a bonus. Even with the 4x win cap, the bonuses offered by Nektan improve the value (or reduce the loss) that players collectively receive on average. Those bonuses are an advantage to the player even if they reduce the possibility of cashing out.
TP

Yes, I see your point in that with a bonus (EV- or not) the player can experience a larger amount of RNG results in the very short term and thus has the advantage of being more likely to hit an exceptional win or run simply because of the higher probability more picks gives. Then the obvious disadvantage comes in making that last into a withdrawal then the bonus becomes a millstone, the double-edged sword.

I categorically state that after switching to cash-only play for 2 years nearly I cash-out far more frequently and lose less. HarryBKK here claims from bonus positions of being up on the starting balance he has made over 40K LESS in cash-outs than he would have without bonus tie-ins in the last 18 months IIRC.

I suppose cash players have a different definition of 'advantage' than bonus-hunters.

The way I see a bonus is like standing in front of a bloke with a machine gun and being given a 5 second start before he fires. With the bonus every other bullet in his magazine is a blank, whereas without it they're all live. He starts spraying the bullets and with the bonus magazine I just get shot down slightly later....

 

[Naok777]

Thanks!

There's a big difference between the 'chance of cashing out' and the 'mathematically expected average results'. The chance of cashing out could theoretically reduce while the average expected value improves. The majority of bonuses, even where they are -EV, do improve the expected results for the player over that of playing without a bonus. Even with the 4x win cap, the bonuses offered by Nektan improve the value (or reduce the loss) that players collectively receive on average. Those bonuses are an advantage to the player even if they reduce the possibility of cashing out.

TP

I understand what you are saying in regards to a "normal" bonus, lets say for example 50% deposit bonus with Bx35 WR and no win cap.

But how could they improve the expected result if the win cap is deposit x1 (4x 25%)?

Because the expected result would usually include a certain percentage (even if low it should be above absolute zero) of players who manage to increase their balance by 0.01 or more above the starting point.

 

[hedgehok]

It would be helpful if you guys could add the listed Nektan Casinos in the C2O-plugin.
btw great article ThePogg

 

[ThePOGG]

To give a little example of what I mean in terms of better for the player:

Two different scenarios (vastly over simplified for the purposes of demonstration):

1) Deposit £10 get a £10 bonus. You have exactly a 1 in 2 chance of cashing out and that cashout will be £17.50 (your deposit+£7.50)

2) Deposit £10 and get £10 bonus. You have exactly a 1 in 10 chance of cashing out and that cashout will be for £97.50 (your deposit+£87.50)

Which is better for the player?

Option 1) you'll lose £10 one time and win £7.50 the other. So your total result is -£2.50 and your average result is -£2.50/2 = -£1.25.

Option 2) You'll lose £10 nine times and win £87.50 the other. So your total result is the same -£2.50 but your average result is -£2.50/10 = -£0.25.

Option 2) is far better for the player despite a far lower probability of cashing out. Over ten plays option 1) would cost you £12.50 while option 2) would cost you £2.50.

The reality is that where slots and bonuses are concerned working out what's better for you financially is far more complex that simply looking at how often you're likely to cash out. You need to understand how MUCH that cashout is likely to be for. And unfortunately RTP doesn't help. A high bust rate when playing with a bonus actually helps players (little hard to get your head round but I am happy to explain if requested). To actually understand how good/bad a bonus is really requires simulation and looking at which circumstance results in the player expecting to lose less in the long run.

Each of the simulations run for that report repeated the bonus for the set conditions 10 million times. This was far more than actually necessary, but gives an idea of why I can give specific figures for how much the player is expected to lose.

TP

 

[ThePOGG]

It would be helpful if you guys could add the listed Nektan Casinos in the C2O-plugin.
btw great article ThePogg

I realise this is probably common knowledge, but where/how do I access that?

 

[Tirilej]

I realise this is probably common knowledge, but where/how do I access that?

You've missed something. It's a great tool...they say. I've not used it myself yet but they say it is that
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/community/c2o-forum/

 

[rainmaker]

Thanks! I am just about to remove them from my sites, this is the final straw...

Right, off to remove them.....

You might want to consider removing more casinos from your site.

A shitty casino like for example Spin and Win has some of the same poor "bonus" rules you will find at Nektan casinos (+ slow payouts and ridiculous payout limits of course).

Deposit €500 for max bonus. Get a €500 bonus. Complete WR and €500 will be removed and if there is anything left the player can keep up to €500. Yeah.

Not sure why anyone would promote nor play at these casinos.

 

[ThePOGG]

A shitty casino like for example Spin and Win has some of the same poor "bonus" rules you will find at Nektan casinos (+ slow payouts and ridiculous payout limits of course).

I knew there was someone else I had to take a look at for this sort of issue. Will try to do that over the next week.

 

[spintee]

You might want to consider removing more casinos from your site.

A shitty casino like for example Spin and Win has some of the same poor "bonus" rules you will find at Nektan casinos (+ slow payouts and ridiculous payout limits of course).

Deposit €500 for max bonus. Get a €500 bonus. Complete WR and €500 will be removed and if there is anything left the player can keep up to €500. Yeah.

Not sure why anyone would promote nor play at these casinos.

Theres a couple of nasty's in there terms

The maximum cashable winnings from your daily 20 free spins credited is £10

30x your deposit and bonus value.

winnings can be kept up to a maximum amount of £500.

so on 1st deposit you put in 500 than max you win after the outrageous terms and wager is 500 lol

 

[SlotGrinder]

Haven't you missed the fact that you play real money first and it doesn't contribute to bonus wagering ? Therefore your real money deposit is treated as a normal real money deposit (i.e you can cashout at any time and just forfeait the bonus amount) and only after you have lost that real money does the bonus start . Yes the bonus has a low cap on winnings but it's still a bonus

 

[spintee]

Haven't you missed the fact that you play real money first and it doesn't contribute to bonus wagering ? Therefore your real money deposit is treated as a normal real money deposit (i.e you can cashout at any time and just forfeait the bonus amount) and only after you have lost that real money does the bonus start . Yes the bonus has a low cap on winnings but it's still a bonus

I suppose it rubs the pain abit,

But come back when you bust into bonus and hit 20k

 

[SlotGrinder]

Yes but the whole article is completely incorrect because he's assuming your real money is tied in to WR when it's not . I mean , I don't think their terms are very clear at all but I've had withdrawals both where I won on real money and forfeited the bonus and withdrawal where I used the bonus and converted the bonus money
Or maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how you can say a bonus is -EV for the player when he still has his real money deposit which he can play with perfectly normally and only when he loses that does he start the bonus

 

[Tirilej]

Yes but the whole article is completely incorrect because he's assuming your real money is tied in to WR when it's not . I mean , I don't think their terms are very clear at all but I've had withdrawals both where I won on real money and forfeited the bonus and withdrawal where I used the bonus and converted the bonus money

Didn't I read somewhere that they just recently had changed their bonus system to something more player friendly?
It has taken ThePogg weeks to do this I believe so maybe that's why the change....if you're correct.

Still their bonuses is nothing else but a Free chip with a max cashout on it!

 

[SlotGrinder]

Didn't I read somewhere that they just recently had changed their bonus system to something more player friendly?
It has taken ThePogg weeks to do this I believe so maybe that's why the change....if you're correct.

Still their bonuses is nothing else but a Free chip with a max cashout on it!

Jackpot Strike 1st deposit bonus is really good imo for a small deposit

£20 deposit - play as if real money , cashout if you win etc
If you lose that then you get £80 bonus money to play with . £2500 wagering (I think) . Max cashout £160

That's not bad for a £20 deposit imo . If they had no cap on the £80 bonus then they couldn't offer it , they would lose too much money . And most people who deposit £20 want a bit of fun and some play time , they're not expecting to get rich , so this bonus fits that perfectly imo . I don't work for them lol I've just had good experiences with every one of their casinos I've signed up to so far . No excluded slots . Not even a max bet I think (don't quote me on that) Reasonable cashout times . They accept skrill for bonuses also which I like as a lot of casinos won't accept skrill from UK players

 

[Tirilej]

Jackpot Strike 1st deposit bonus is really good imo for a small deposit

£20 deposit - play as if real money , cashout if you win etc
If you lose that then you get £80 bonus money to play with . £2500 wagering (I think) . Max cashout £160

That's not bad for a £20 deposit imo . If they had no cap on the £80 bonus then they couldn't offer it , they would lose too much money . And most people who deposit £20 want a bit of fun and some play time , they're not expecting to get rich , so this bonus fits that perfectly imo . I don't work for them lol I've just had good experiences with every one of their casinos I've signed up to so far . No excluded slots . Not even a max bet I think (don't quote me on that) Reasonable cashout times . They accept skrill for bonuses also which I like as a lot of casinos won't accept skrill from UK players

So that is Deposit £20 ang get a free chip of £80 with a max cashout of 2x.
So it's not a deposit bonus really, and no, it's not good.

The question is still, if they have changed the rules then when did they do that?

 

[spintee]

It does probably blow all that mathematical theory out the window if you can withdraw any time if no dipy into bonus.

I suppose any bonus like this is better than any tied in bonus, I would deposit 25 with 25 bonus if i can take out any time, even with a max cap, Than rather take put in 25 with 25 free and be locked in, Especially for a low roller, If the max win is 500 and not x1 or two bonus but even still at least you get money back,

If this does get bought up with the UKGC than after seeing the withdraw at any time if no diped than they will laught at it and say its a good bonus.

 

[spintee]

Correct me if I am wrong, Wasnt this the group that only allows one sign up across them ???

 

[dunover]

The no tie-in DOES indeed totally change the nature of the bonus, i.e. w/d any time for any amount on cash. Limit is only if you use the bonus, so yes, as you guys state it's effectively a second chance of getting your deposit back and a few quid on top.

BUT I think ThePOGG is referring to a different bonus - the bonus in question was a deposit bonus added up front to a player's account.

I agree that this whole thread becomes pointless and moot for Max, ThePOGG and myself IF these casinos being lambasted are allowing w/d's before entering bonus funds (Spin And Win I had my biggest w/d in the history of my slotting career paid no problem, many thousands! from 50 in...) OR unless it's made clear the distinction applies to a certain type of bonus out of many offered?

I have acted in good faith removing the sites and TBH I haven't a clue what's going on any more with them, and I agree NO bonus is shit if it allows any sort of w/d after a deposit has been played and lost or if you can withdraw from the deposit before touching bonus funds.

I think a few people here are looking like ending up with egg on their faces by acting on partial or incorrect info, me included.

Can somebody actually clearly define that this is a general bonus trap or one specific bonus that's gone wrong?

IF this/these bonuses are added so all the D+B becomes bonus funds up front then they are terrible indeed and worthy of Max, POGG and myself canning the sites. If NOT then the offending bonus(es) should be distinctly separated and clarified for fairness and ease of understanding to both the readers here and casinos in question.

 

[goatwack]

If the bonus is indeed capped at twice the deposit limit, it wouldn't be a disaster either. Assuming one has busted on their own money, the player is left to pursue a credible withdrawal.

If say depositing £20 and withdrawing £40 may not be spectacular, I know full well if there had been no restrictions in place I would have gone on to pursue a greater amount, and inevitably bust out.

At least this way the player has the flexibility of a pre-bonus withdrawal, and failing that, a moderate and sensible compromise that suits both the player and casino. I'm not claiming it's exactly their version of RG but it may suit some, knowing the prerequisites beforehand, plus it may just be one of many types of bonuses offered by this casino

 

[SlotGrinder]

If the bonus is indeed capped at twice the deposit limit, it wouldn't be a disaster either. Assuming one has busted on their own money, the player is left to pursue a credible withdrawal.

If say depositing £20 and withdrawing £40 may not be spectacular, I know full well if there had been no restrictions in place I would have gone on to pursue a greater amount, and inevitably bust out.

At least this way the player has the flexibility of a pre-bonus withdrawal, and failing that, a moderate and sensible compromise that suits both the player and casino. I'm not claiming it's exactly their version of RG but it may suit some, knowing the prerequisites beforehand, plus it may just be one of many types of bonuses offered by this casino

There's not a cap on withdrawing from bonus money I think there's just a cap on how much you can convert from bonus money to real money . For example , a £50 bonus with 4x cap . Once you have completed the wagering then the bonus money becomes real money up to a max of £200 (any extra bonus money is lost) but then you are free to play on as the money is now in your real money balance . So the only issue is if you finish bonus wagering with a BIG balance then you will lose a fair bit . But many times you will either bust the bonus money or complete wagering with a balance of <£200 so then it's not an issue . Obviously whilst using this bonus you don't want to be doing £9 spins on DoA ... You want to play good wagering games since you're not looking for big hits especially

 

[Harry_BKK]

So now we are supposed to be happy that we can win 2x the bonus amount after having wagered $2500.....are you people for real?

No matter what the terms are, real funds tied-in or not....it is as bad as it can get. Sit there for hours hoping to withdraw $40 or $80 bucks.....can that be called gambling? I would call it waste of time! You could make more washing dishes at McDonalds.

Finish wagering with a 1K balance only to have $800 forfeited....oh, no worries, you can try again to build it up! yeah sure, my *ss

Are we that addicted that we put up now with all sorts of crap!

The wagering requirement and bet restrictions is what gives the casinos the edge on the bonuses and makes sure that they do not run a too high risk, there is no need whatsoever to forfeit any winnings once wagering is completed.

 

[Tirilej]

I've tried to read and understand the rules on several of their sites. It was almost impossible since it's translated to Swedish and most of it Google translated, or just really bad. If I can't understand then how can players? I hope it's better in English.

In the terms 14.6 it says that Real money does not contribute towards wagering, but on the rules for the Welcomebonus it says 12. Only play for real money contribute to wagering

In some the deposit is tied up with bonus money, in others not. No wonder we get confused.
Don't take them back yet dunover. You need to check them rules first, and understand them.

 

[goatwack]

So winnings are capped at 2x but probably not, real money contributes to wagering perhaps and the terms cannot even be deciphered by native speakers because they are so contradictory.

Sign me up!!

 

[colinsunderland]

So winnings are capped at 2x but probably not, real money contributes to wagering perhaps and the terms cannot even be deciphered by native speakers because they are so contradictory.

Sign me up!!

I must be missing something as I think they are pretty clear.
25 x wagering, 2 x max cashout. So WR of £2000 with a max cashout of £160, from a £20 deposit. You can withdraw if you haven't touched the bonus.

 

[interlog]

I must be missing something as I think they are pretty clear.
25 x wagering, 2 x max cashout. So WR of £2000 with a max cashout of £160, from a £20 deposit. You can withdraw if you haven't touched the bonus.

Perhaps I am a little thick here, but how does 2x max cashout on £20 equate to £160? I make that £40 on my calculator

Edit: unless you mean on a £80 deposit as that would tie in with 25 x 80 = £2,000 wagering

 

[SlotGrinder]

Perhaps I am a little thick here, but how does 2x max cashout on £20 equate to £160? I make that £40 on my calculator

Edit: unless you mean on a £80 deposit as that would tie in with 25 x 80 = £2,000 wagering

On JackpotStrike you get deposit £20 play with £100 . So £20 real money and if you lose that then £80 bonus funds with 25x WR but the max amount of bonus funds that can be converted to real money is 2x the bonus amount which is 2 x £80 = £160

I get that 2x cap sounds bad but I doubt your expectation from this bonus is worse than a standard 100% match bonus on a £20 deposit that a lot of sites offer . The 100% deposit matches will have higher than 25x WR and usually your real money will be tied in so you can't withdraw until WR is complete . You get a LOT of bonus funds (4x your deposit amount) to try and extract something from the bonus AFTER you have lost your real money . It has a cap but that's only an issue a small % of the time when you absolutely smash the WR . Of course you don't want to be playing for DoA wildlines .. stick to low/medium variance games with moderate potential if you are on bonus funds

 

[interlog]

On JackpotStrike you get deposit £20 play with £100 . So £20 real money and if you lose that then £80 bonus funds with 25x WR but the max amount of bonus funds that can be converted to real money is 2x the bonus amount which is 2 x £80 = £160

I get that 2x cap sounds bad but I doubt your expectation from this bonus is worse than a standard 100% match bonus on a £20 deposit that a lot of sites offer . The 100% deposit matches will have higher than 25x WR and often your real money will be tied in so you can't withdraw until WR is complete

Understand now. And yes, it is not too bad a deal.

 

[colinsunderland]

Perhaps I am a little thick here, but how does 2x max cashout on £20 equate to £160? I make that £40 on my calculator

Edit: unless you mean on a £80 deposit as that would tie in with 25 x 80 = £2,000 wagering

Already been explained above but yes I could have explained better. £20 cash deposit, no wagering not tied in. Lose it, £80 bonus, £2000 WR, max cashout £160. Yes not as good as some bonuses, but not as bad as some in my view.

 

[spintee]

Already been explained above but yes I could have explained better. £20 cash deposit, no wagering not tied in. Lose it, £80 bonus, £2000 WR, max cashout £160. Yes not as good as some bonuses, but not as bad as some in my view.

Its not really as bad as expected, Put 25 in site bust out and see you later, Put 25 in one of theer sites, bust out on the 25 than had a 400% free =100 you than get a chance to cash out 200,

I am going by a big bonus here but even if deposit 25 with 100% you still have that secound chance to gain double your depo, Ok you may hit big but you would not of even had that chance if you put in a straight depo,

There are so many bonus terms and offers now days it is hard to get around is it a fair deal, In my opinion its not bloody bad

 

[goatwack]

I must be missing something as I think they are pretty clear.
25 x wagering, 2 x max cashout. So WR of £2000 with a max cashout of £160, from a £20 deposit. You can withdraw if you haven't touched the bonus.

Don't get your knickers in a twist will ya. It was said in jest, and I'm aware about the pre-bonus withdrawal option.

Still doesn't stop it being a 5-page thread as the rules seem about as clear as mud, leaving them open to interpretation when the casino decides "It actually means this".

Not a bonus I'd put at the top of my Christmas Wish List but each to their own.

 

[spintee]

bonus entitlement.
14.9. Where a customer requests a withdrawal or transfer out of their gaming account, prior to the necessary wagering requirement being met, they will lose all bonus and winnings attributable to the account. Only the sum of the original deposit or remaining balance of the original deposit will be withdrawable.

 

[SlotGrinder]

bonus entitlement.
14.9. Where a customer requests a withdrawal or transfer out of their gaming account, prior to the necessary wagering requirement being met, they will lose all bonus and winnings attributable to the account. Only the sum of the original deposit or remaining balance of the original deposit will be withdrawable.

Yeh I've seen that but "Withdrawal of funds before the wagering is complete will void all bonuses and any winnings of these attributable to the account." is what it says in the welcome bonus terms (nr.15)

I think by "winnings" they mean winnings from bonus money but I agree it is not worded well and open to misinterpretation . My experience is that if you win on your real money then your real money balance increases and this IS withdrawable (I have done it twice) . Your bonus money balance remains the same until you have lost your real money (or withdrawn it thus forfeiting the bonus)

 

[spintee]

Yeh I've seen that but "Withdrawal of funds before the wagering is complete will void all bonuses and any winnings of these attributable to the account." is what it says in the welcome bonus terms (nr.15)

I think by "winnings" they mean winnings from bonus money but I agree it is not worded well and open to misinterpretation . My experience is that if you win on your real money then your real money balance increases and this IS withdrawable (I have done it twice) . Your bonus money balance remains the same until you have lost your real money (or withdrawn it thus forfeiting the bonus)

I think they need to reword there terms, Every thing is up for debate with how the terms are written, It does not help when evry other line it states, at the discretion

Was this the sites that you could only sign up to one site? If not was was the brand where you could only sign up to one, I did sign up to jackpot strike after someone pointed it out the other week, If you can withdraw if not diped in than I think the terms are resonable, But the way there written than I think they can do what ever they feel like

 

[SlotGrinder]

I think they need to reword there terms, Every thing is up for debate with how the terms are written, It does not help when evry other line it states, at the discretion

Was this the sites that you could only sign up to one site? If not was was the brand where you could only sign up to one, I did sign up to jackpot strike after someone pointed it out the other week, If you can withdraw if not diped in than I think the terms are resonable, But the way there written than I think they can do what ever they feel like

I've signed up to 5 Nektan sites and every time I asked CS if it's ok and every time they said it's fine and that you can have as many accounts / welcome bonuses as you want.. not that I trust CS 100% though but it seems to be fine

 

[Tirilej]

bonus entitlement.
14.9. Where a customer requests a withdrawal or transfer out of their gaming account, prior to the necessary wagering requirement being met, they will lose all bonus and winnings attributable to the account. Only the sum of the original deposit or remaining balance of the original deposit will be withdrawable.

The bolded part was not on any site that I visited, but I didn't look everywhere. I could read the English terms in one and wanted to clear the rules with support but I couldn't since I refuse to become a member just to talk to them.

 

[SlotGrinder]

Can you clarify how your welcome bonus works
18:19
When you deposit £20 you get £80 bonus funds also
18:20Customer Support
This is only for new players, a welcome offer
18:20
but if you win on your £20 real money you can withdraw that real money and just forfeit the bonus amount correct?
18:21Customer Support
Yes thats right aslong as you have not played the bonus money through
18:21
as long as you haven't started using the bonus money ?
18:23Customer Support
Yes that's right, if you have deposited cash funds and have a bonus active too. Meaning that if you have won from your cash funds all is fine to withdraw, but if you have deposited cash funds and then go on to playing a bonus after this then you will not be able to withdraw as most bonuses are capped x4 it all depends on the bonus promotion on.

Even Customer Support is mildly confusing lol

 

[Tirilej]

Can you clarify how your welcome bonus works
18:19
When you deposit £20 you get £80 bonus funds also
18:20Customer Support
This is only for new players, a welcome offer
18:20
but if you win on your £20 real money you can withdraw that real money and just forfeit the bonus amount correct?
18:21Customer Support
Yes thats right aslong as you have not played the bonus money through
18:21
as long as you haven't started using the bonus money ?
18:23Customer Support
Yes that's right, if you have deposited cash funds and have a bonus active too. Meaning that if you have won from your cash funds all is fine to withdraw, but if you have deposited cash funds and then go on to playing a bonus after this then you will not be able to withdraw as most bonuses are capped x4 it all depends on the bonus promotion on.

Even Customer Support is mildly confusing lol

And you just asked about one casinos welcome bonus. They have different rules for different promotions. Others have 30x d+b.
This thread was about an automaticly added bonus of 25% that did lock the deposit in.

Some other bonuses you won't get until after three days.
Bonuses that are not cleared are put in a queue so that if you didn't make the playthrough on one it's still there in the background. All according to their rules.