mstrike1978 VS Club World Casino ($46,034.44)

[mstrike1978]

I am having the worst day of my life. This morning, Club World Casino confiscated all of my winnings, even my DEPOSIT! Read below... I need some serious help help people... The worst part is, I only played a few hands of blackjack...

Please wait for a site operator to respond.

You are now chatting with 'Jaye'

Jaye: Hello, how are you today?

Michael Strike: Ok, I need help please.

Jaye: ok, i haved checked your account.

Michael Strike: Why does my balance read zero? I had $46000.

Jaye: The management have removed the winnings as Blackjack was played, and you claimed a SLOTS only bonus.

Jaye: All bonuses carry a wagering requirement that is to be completed on a specific selection of games. Any wagers made on games that are excluded from the wagering requirement before the wagering requirement is completed will result in the bonus and any winnings being void. The player must be aware of and accept these terms and conditions before playing the bonus.

Michael Strike: They can keep any blackjack winnings.

Michael Strike: But I made 46000 on slot machines.

Jaye: When you claim a bonus, you have to meet the playthrough on the games allowed only,

Jaye: as you played blackjack and won, you then used these winnings to play slots, unfortunately this has voided the win

Michael Strike: I need to speak with a supervisor please....

Michael Strike: I did not see anything that said that and we are talking about a lot of money.

Jaye: unfortunately there is not one available at the moment, if you can email in i will forward the email to management for you.

Jaye: But the bonus terms were broken

Jaye: and it is the players responibility to read the terms

Michael Strike: Where is the link for the terms please?

Jaye: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Michael Strike: Where is the part you are referring to please.

Jaye: scroll down to bonus terms

Jaye: it is the 6th term

Michael Strike: It says any winning made on games that are excluded from the wagering requirement will be void, which means worst case scenario, I fofeited any money from blackjack,.

Jaye: Any wagers made on games that are excluded from the wagering requirement before the wagering requirement is completed will result in the bonus and any winnings being void.

Jaye: any winnings

Michael Strike: WHen can I speak to a supervisor.

Jaye: an email today would be great, or this time tomorrow the supervisor will be in.

Michael Strike: So this is because I played a hand of blackjack that you are saying $46,000 is forfeit?

Michael Strike: This is amazingly ridiculous, Im sorry.

Jaye: These are the terms of the bonus you claimed, any wagering made on games excluded, results in voided winnings.

Jaye: The decision has been made by management.

Michael Strike: What was the balance that they forfeited please?>

Jaye: $46,034.44

Michael Strike: Who do I email please?

Jaye: [email protected]

Jaye: please put in the subject line FAO: management

Jaye: i will make sure it gets forwarded for you

Michael Strike: THank you for your help, I will do that... I have a feeling this is going to be a long difficult struggle.

Jaye: your welcome

 

[The Dude]

Hi Michael - did you play blackjack first - and then play slots with the winnings? How much BJ did you play?

And if this is the case, why did you play BJ with a slots bonus?

 

[mstrike1978]

No, I played the slots first... I didnt realize I wasnt past my wagering requirement limit yet.... This is a fantastic failure of epic proportions... I played a few hands, not much. I won all my money in the slot machines.

The blackjack didnt even count towards my wagering requirement for the bonus!

 

[chuchu59]

Strictly speaking, if this is a slots only bonus you should not play any other game before completing wagering requirements. That said, the casino should also take a hard look at whether the player in question had purposely decided to use the whole bonus to increase his/her bankroll before playing slots and grinding out wagering requirements.

As for the suggestion by Michael that only the BJ winnings be removed I beg to differ. If a sizable amount was won on BJ the bankroll would have increased and bigger bets would have been made on the slots resulting in greater winnings as in this case. However, if say only a couple of BJ bets say only @$5 per bet this makes no big difference to Michael's pattern of betting and can be regarded as taking a break from slot play with no real intention to profit from table games.

 

[winbig]

imo, CWC should pay the player all of the winnings (minus anything won from blackjack) if blackjack was played after winning all of the money from slots...

If you built up your balance by playing BJ first (or at any time before winning this massive amount) then by all means they're doing the right thing. eg:

started out playing slots
balance got low, so go play blackjack
win some more money playing blackjack
go back to slots and win a ton of money

etc


side note: I thought you could see how much playthrough you still had in the cashier's section? I know hindsight is 20/20, but you should have checked first.

 

[mstrike1978]

Guys, the balance came from a $15 pull on seven and stripes. $50,000. I HIT THE JACKPOT.... And then they took it all away.

 

[Pulver]

If you played BJ on the very first hands to get a big balance to play the slot machines, I could understand CW's decision, but if you played lots and lots of slots first, and then just played some hands of BJ without thinking, CW's decision is utterly ridicilous, IMO.

 

[chuchu59]

No, I played the slots first... I didnt realize I wasnt past my wagering requirement limit yet.... This is a fantastic failure of epic proportions... I played a few hands, not much. I won all my money in the slot machines.

The blackjack didnt even count towards my wagering requirement for the bonus!

Hmm,

So I assume you didnt go to the cashier to have a look at the playthrough counter. However, you now say that you realsie that BJ play didnt count towards WRs.

We can also ask CW as to when you played those hands of BJ. Was it near the end of your WRs which would lend credence to your claim that you thought WRs were met.

 

[mstrike1978]

Guys... Honestly... I am not really sure. I am new to online gaming. I DID play Blackjack... After I won $50,000 I even played a few $100 hands. I only deposited $150 from my credit card, as far as I remember, I went straight to the slots. I'm 90% sure... All I know is that I feel very, very cheated.

 

[uungy]

And if this is the case, why did you play BJ with a slots bonus?

It is possible for a player to make a mistake.

The fact is the terms clearly state " winnings" from the wagers will be void. It makes absolutely no difference when blackjack was played.

 

[CURTSONLYLOVE10]

it makes me sick everytime i see a person take a slot bonus and play a different games other than slots..and then bit** and moan about how they did nothing wrong...WHY WHY WHY do u people keep doing that...

if by chance i take a bonus...i make sure to stay away from all other games and slot jackpots...if i make playthrough i go to the live chat and ask can i play video poker now...if they say yes i have that chat session mailed to my email to bring it back to them later.....i always go to chat to claim a bonus if i take one and save the chat for if i win or lose if i lose all my money i go to my email and delete that chat if i win i keep the chat until i am paid..

and like it was said earlier in the cashier u can see what games u can and cannot play and how much playthrough u have left to wager..

if i was the casino i would not pay a dime..i use to agree with the player when these sort of things happened..but i see this "MISTAKE" happen to often..

 

[LaHutti]

Argh not another one of those....makes my stomach turn !

 

[uungy]

imo, CWC should pay the player all of the winnings (minus anything won from blackjack) if blackjack was played after winning all of the money from slots...

If you built up your balance by playing BJ first (or at any time before winning this massive amount) then by all means they're doing the right thing. eg:

started out playing slots
balance got low, so go play blackjack
win some more money playing blackjack
go back to slots and win a ton of money

etc


side note: I thought you could see how much playthrough you still had in the cashier's section? I know hindsight is 20/20, but you should have checked first.

firstly the terms state that those winning wagers will be removed so it makes no difference, they have to stick to their terms. Whats the logic in not doing so?

Secondly playing blackjack, and then playing slots, I dont see the advantage anyway, as all the accumelated winnings form the blackjack play will be removed. Starting with a higher balance doesnt give you any extra advantage!

 

[LaHutti]

Ofcourse it does. Enables you to make higher bets on slots, than you would otherwise be able/willing to.

 

[uungy]

Ofcourse it does. Enables you to make higher bets on slots, than you would otherwise be able/willing to.

Why does it enable higher bets? You cvan bet whatever you want.

If you get 150 into your account. Put it all on blackjack. you now have 300, 150 of it will never be able to be cashed out.

wheres the gain?

 

[CURTSONLYLOVE10]

Argh not another one of those....makes my stomach turn !

What exactly r u refering to?

 

[mstrike1978]

So should I ask for a report as to my gaming for any potential recourse?

 

[winbig]

Starting with a higher balance doesnt give you any extra advantage!

honestly, wtf are you smoking?

Of course it gives you an advantage, in the form of spinning at much higher stakes due to the high balance.

Say you deposited $100. You're not going to spin @ $10+ a spin, are you?

Even if you did, you only have (at minimum) 10 spins in order to win something.

So instead, you go play some blackjack and raise your balance up to $1,000.

Then you take that $1,000 to the slots and now you have 100 spins in which to hit something.

See the advantage?

 

[Richard]

You see the problems bonuses can cause. Now you got $150 tied in and the casino got $150 tied (if 100% bonus) also. But they get to keep all the winnings. I dunno even know if they got to put the jackpot back. Since it was "WON" and forfeited. Yep that casino got alot of muscle with their bonuses. Their terms stated any "Winnings" made off a non slot game will be forfeit. Not the entire casino balance. But they can make up anything they feel and not pay you. IMHO $150 of your own money was enough to get you going. You didn't need $150 of their money. I may understand if you had $20 and used $20 of theres. But at a B&M casino I can got sit at the $1 or $3 BJ table all night with $150. Its goes to show you. Greed is a MF!

 

[uungy]

honestly, wtf are you smoking?

Of course it gives you an advantage, in the form of spinning at much higher stakes due to the high balance.

Say you deposited $100. You're not going to spin @ $10+ a spin, are you?

Even if you did, you only have (at minimum) 10 spins in order to win something.

So instead, you go play some blackjack and raise your balance up to $1,000.

Then you take that $1,000 to the slots and now you have 100 spins in which to hit something.

See the advantage?

No! makes no sense to me at all. thats not an "advantage" that you want to bet higher.

Why wouldnt you bet your whole balance all at once?

Again, you dont have a higher chance. It makes absolutely no sense. There is no "extra chance" winning more with more bets.

I dont smoke

 

[winbig]

No! makes no sense to me at all. thats not an "advantage" that you want to bet higher.

Why wouldnt you bet your whole balance all at once?

Again, you dont have a higher chance. It makes absolutely no sense. There is no "extra chance" winning more with more bets.

I dont smoke

no you don't have an extra chance of winning anything, but as the number of spins you make increases, the probability of hitting something big increases as well.

Capiche?

 

[uungy]

no you don't have an extra chance of winning anything, but as the number of spins you make increases, the probability of hitting something big increases as well.

Capiche?

No, not at all. it doesnt increase your chance at all of winning more. You may get bigger wins, but so what, your losses will be greater too. That 1K will be removed whatever.

 

[mstrike1978]

Well I logged into my account and they refunded my $150.00 original deposit, but I'm not going to touch it.

 

[bryand]

Well I logged into my account and they refunded my $150.00 original deposit, but I'm not going to touch it.

Mike, were you really betting $10 per spin on a high variance slot with only a $300 balance?

 

[zippedup]

Sorry this happened to you but....

You must and I repeat must read the terms and condtions of any bonus you take before you sign up for it. What you are describing happens all the time. People don't take the time to read the terms and conditions.

Normally they confiscate any winnings you have had on either non qualifing games and qualifying games leaving you with your original deposit and then even deduct losses out of your own money.

Don't feel like the lone ranger. It happened to me too. My wife was playing some pumkin slot game and wagered 5 on it. The win was 1900. She lost all of that plus anything else she and I may have wagered on either slots or craps or roulette. I had orginally deposited 200 and ended up with 40 after they reconfigured the account regarding the penalty. penalty was all winnings on any game and any of my own money that I had lost.

FOLKS---read the terms and conditions !!

 

[uungy]

You must and I repeat must read the terms and condtions of any bonus you take before you sign up for it. What you are describing happens all the time. People don't take the time to read the terms and conditions.

Normally they confiscate any winnings you have had on either non qualifing games and qualifying games leaving you with your original deposit and then even deduct losses out of your own money.

Don't feel like the lone ranger. It happened to me too. My wife was playing some pumkin slot game and wagered 5 on it. The win was 1900. She lost all of that plus anything else she and I may have wagered on either slots or craps or roulette. I had orginally deposited 200 and ended up with 40 after they reconfigured the account regarding the penalty. penalty was all winnings on any game and any of my own money that I had lost.

FOLKS---read the terms and conditions !!

terms and conditions strictly note that "winnings from those wagers" will be removed.

So what all that about.

As far as the terms are concerened, the OP is owed every cent, minus the wins on the restricted games. (and so is your wife).

 

[mstrike1978]

Mike, were you really betting $10 per spin on a high variance slot with only a $300 balance

Yes, I was trying to hit the jackpot. It was actually $15 / spin.

 

[mstrike1978]

Hi Michael - did you play blackjack first - and then play slots with the winnings? How much BJ did you play?

And if this is the case, why did you play BJ with a slots bonus?

Need some help here.... Fine, then they cancel my blackjack wagers, and refund the rest... Where is my recourse with this one...

 

[The Dude]

@mstrike1978

6. All bonuses carry a wagering requirement that is to be completed on a specific selection of games. Any wagers made on games that are excluded from the wagering requirement before the wagering requirement is completed will result in the bonus and any winnings being void. The player must be aware of and accept these terms and conditions before playing the bonus.

This was there when you accepted the bonus - you did read this, didn't you?

How much black jack did you play? What was your balance when you began playing black jack and what did you get your balance back up to before playing slots again? And why did you play black jack at all when you were aware of this term?

 

[The Dude]

Need some help here.... Fine, then they cancel my blackjack wagers, and refund the rest... Where is my recourse with this one...

I'll wait for the casino to get back on this one.

But if it turns out you would have busted out on slots before hitting the jackpot spin without the BJ winnings, you're probably SOL.

I mean seriously, no casino (at least no casino listed here) is going to negate your winnings just because you played a couple of hands of black jack. But if these BJ winnings are what feeds the slots winnings, then there is a problem.

 

[mstrike1978]

Understood. I honestly do not know how many blackjack hands I played... I played some $100 hands for a while after I won the jackpot for fun, and I did not pay that close attention. Lets see the report when they get back to us, and I do see your point if blackjack winnings fed the slot machines on a slot machine coupon, but I think we can all agree its unfortunate.

Thank you for any assistance.

Michael

 

[mstrike1978]

I'll wait for the casino to get back on this one.

Did you request a log of wagering or do I email them for one?

 

[uungy]

Any wagers made on games that are excluded from the wagering requirement before the wagering requirement is completed will result in the bonus and any winnings being void.

To me it sounds as though only that wager is null and void, and all winnings won will be removed.

If they were in fact saying that everything is void the terms would in fact say

Wagering on restricted games will void all winnings won on this promotion.

like rushmore have recently changed their terms to (which is a rogue term)

I'll wait for the casino to get back on this one.

But if it turns out you would have busted out on slots before hitting the jackpot spin without the BJ winnings, you're probably SOL.

I mean seriously, no casino (at least no casino listed here) is going to negate your winnings just because you played a couple of hands of black jack. But if these BJ winnings are what feeds the slots winnings, then there is a problem.

see above

 

[The Dude]

... and I do see your point if blackjack winnings fed the slot machines on a slot machine coupon, but I think we can all agree its unfortunate...

More like tragic.

Did you request a log of wagering or do I email them?

No - the casino is fully aware of this thread, but it's late at night here and I'm sure they will be responding sometime tomorrow morning European time.

 

[mstrike1978]

To me it sounds as though only that wager is null and void, and all winnings won will be removed.

That was my interpretation as well.

 

[clubworld]

Hello, events did transpire as WinBig guessed:

started out playing slots
balance got low, so go play blackjack
win some more money playing blackjack
go back to slots and win a ton of money

While the hand count on Blackjack was relatively low, the winnings enabled mstrike to return to the slots and start hitting the bet max button.

By the way this win was not from a prize pool and so does not affect the jackpots available to our players.

From our terms and conditions:

6. All bonuses carry a wagering requirement that is to be completed on a specific selection of games. Any wagers made on games that are excluded from the wagering requirement before the wagering requirement is completed will result in the bonus and any winnings being void. The player must be aware of and accept these terms and conditions before playing the bonus.

I feel this is very clear and we would not take such extreme action without good reason.

Kind Regards
Tom

 

[chuchu59]

Unless the OP refutes Tom's claims then we can consider this case done and dusted. As Bryan says, it's tragic but the slot play was fed by winnings from BJ. Too bad then.

 

[zebedy]

Well I logged into my account and they refunded my $150.00 original deposit, but I'm not going to touch it.

Seems like you got a fair deal in the end, at least you got your deposit back.
if people dont read the T&Cs which are clearly set out you cant really fault the casino,
its just unlucky you hit the JP when you did, at least you get another shot at it

From our terms and conditions:

6. All bonuses carry a wagering requirement that is to be completed on a specific selection of games. Any wagers made on games that are excluded from the wagering requirement before the wagering requirement is completed will result in the bonus and any winnings being void. The player must be aware of and accept these terms and conditions before playing the bonus.

I feel this is very clear and we would not take such extreme action without good reason.

Kind Regards
Tom

 

[RobWin]

Hello, events did transpire as WinBig guessed:



While the hand count on Blackjack was relatively low, the winnings enabled mstrike to return to the slots and start hitting the bet max button.


Kind Regards
Tom

Tom, I'm curious if the winnings confiscation would have happened as well if the scale and bet proportion were smaller? (eg: If the OP had won say $20 on BJ and then returned to a real series slot and bet 0.20c and won the random for $1,800)

Would this random jackpot for $1,800 have been confiscated as well because he bet 0.20c with his winnings from BJ?
____
____

 

[CasinoKidd]

Why do people lie? There are logs that can definitively prove what happened.

Question: Say he deposited $100. He is down to $30 before he turns to blackjack. That also forfeits his $30?

 

[zebedy]

Why do people lie? There are logs that can definitively prove what happened.

Question: Say he deposited $100. He is down to $30 before he turns to blackjack. That also forfeits his $30?

Playing with a coupon/bonus that states slots only, yep the money is forfeited

 

[rockycatt]

because of the sum of money involved i wish this fella went private with this case

 

[Nifty29]

Mstrike - I really hope you learn from this mistake, it has cost you what might be your biggest win ever.

However, I dont believe for a minute it was a 'mistake' to go play BJ when you knew you were playing a slots coupon. As for not knowing where you were in regards to playthrough, you could have checked in the cashier or via live chat to make sure.

Please please please everyone.....READ the terms completely before you take any bonus. Dont learn the hard way like Mstrike.

 

[AussieDave]

if these BJ winnings are what feeds the slots winnings, then there is a problem.

And the other BIG problem is most people don't read the casino bonus terms.

Bonuses are not a bad thing; least not from legitimate & trustworthy casinos.
What does place them in a bad light are punters who don't read the T&C's associated to them.

Also correct me if I'm wrong...But when you enter a bonus code into the RTG cashier doesn't it display the allowed games as well as the games that are not allowed to be played? It does it for every RTG I've played.



Cheers



Dave

 

[uungy]

Hello, events did transpire as WinBig guessed:

While the hand count on Blackjack was relatively low, the winnings enabled mstrike to return to the slots and start hitting the bet max button.

By the way this win was not from a prize pool and so does not affect the jackpots available to our players.

From our terms and conditions:

6. All bonuses carry a wagering requirement that is to be completed on a specific selection of games. Any wagers made on games that are excluded from the wagering requirement before the wagering requirement is completed will result in the bonus and any winnings being void. The player must be aware of and accept these terms and conditions before playing the bonus.

I feel this is very clear and we would not take such extreme action without good reason.

Kind Regards
Tom

The winnigs didnt enable anything. from what it sounds to me the OP played on blackjack, but those winnings will be removed later.

I dont see the logic here, and the terms and conditions definately dont seem to agree to that. As I stated earlier the terms dont sound to me the way you interpret them, and logically the player gained nothing out of playing blackjack. Luck had it that he may have won a few hands ir whatever, but OP could have lost them just as much. all the winnings will be voided, but the slots wins should be paid

 

[uungy]

And the other BIG problem is most people don't read the casino bonus terms.

Bonuses are not a bad thing; least not from legitimate & trustworthy casinos.
What does place them in a bad light are punters who don't read the T&C's associated to them.

Also correct me if I'm wrong...But when you enter a bonus code into the RTG cashier doesn't it display the allowed games as well as the games that are not allowed to be played? It does it for every RTG I've played.



Cheers



Dave

It doesnt!

 

[AussieDave]

It doesnt!

It doesn't what? Show the allowed and disallowed games?

Still that doesn't dismiss the fact that the OP should have read the bonus terms. And that they knew they were playing with a slots only bonus.


Cheers



Dave

 

[uungy]

It doesn't what? Show the allowed and disallowed games?

Still that doesn't dismiss the fact that the OP should have read the bonus terms. And that they knew they were playing with a slots only bonus.


Cheers



Dave

Whats that to do with it?

The terms state from my understandings that the winnigs from those wagers will be removed.

Stick to the terms. So yes only those games should be played, but incase anything else happens, the terms state that they will be removed, and vthe rest should be paid out.

 

[Nifty29]

RTG coupons now display allowed and disallowed games after they are redeemed and have done for a little while now - you just click on "coupon details" in the banking tab....I assume blackjack would have been listed in the disallowed games.

@uungy - what do you mean by "the terms dont seem to agree to that" ?

Any wagers made on games that are excluded from the wagering requirement before the wagering requirement is completed will result in the bonus and any winnings being void.

Blackjack is excluded from the slots only coupon, therefore ANY wagers placed on BJ before the WR is met means everything except the deposit is void. I dont see any ambiguity there...?. The 'bonus and ANY winnings' is the important part here. Any wins after increasing your balance from BJ play are 'fruit of the poisonous tree'.

Also, are you serious in saying that playing blackjack instead of slots isnt an advantage to the player? If this were the case, BJ would be allowed on every bonus -but we all know it isnt. It is far easier to build up a decent bankroll on BJ than on slots, and the method of doing so to fund one's slot play has been around since bonuses were invented - its fine if you do it with your own money, but not with the casinos'.

In any case, the terms are clear and the casino has every right to invoke them, as unfortunate as it is for the player. It is the responsibility of the player to make sure they follow the rules...we are all adults here and it is unreasonable to put the casino in a bad light when they have done nothing wrong.

 

[uungy]

RTG coupons now display allowed and disallowed games after they are redeemed and have done for a little while now - you just click on "coupon details" in the banking tab....I assume blackjack would have been listed in the disallowed games.

@uungy - what do you mean by "the terms dont seem to agree to that" ?

Any wagers made on games that are excluded from the wagering requirement before the wagering requirement is completed will result in the bonus and any winnings being void.

Blackjack is excluded from the slots only coupon, therefore ANY wagers placed on BJ before the WR is met means everything except the deposit is void. I dont see any ambiguity there...?. The 'bonus and ANY winnings' is the important part here. Any wins after increasing your balance from BJ play are 'fruit of the poisonous tree'.

Also, are you serious in saying that playing blackjack instead of slots isnt an advantage to the player? If this were the case, BJ would be allowed on every bonus -but we all know it isnt. It is far easier to build up a decent bankroll on BJ than on slots, and the method of doing so to fund one's slot play has been around since bonuses were invented - its fine if you do it with your own money, but not with the casinos'.

In any case, the terms are clear and the casino has every right to invoke them, as unfortunate as it is for the player. It is the responsibility of the player to make sure they follow the rules...we are all adults here and it is unreasonable to put the casino in a bad light when they have done nothing wrong.

I explained earlier

To me it sounds as though only that wager is null and void, and all winnings won will be removed...............

It is absolutely no benefit to the player. You do not increase any chances, and the fact the casinos dont allow it mean nothing. Half of them havent got a clue what they are doing.

Building a bankroll, when all the winnings incurred will be forfeited give the player no gain whatsoever. It doesnt increase any chances and it doesnt put any benefit to the player.