Mr Green ignoring my emails and withholding my withdrawal?

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
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You're talking utter bxll mate. Jog on.

There's only one side the truth. Ive copied everything in here and everyone can see the chain of events. You're inferring and speculating and your opinion is useless. Facts matter.

Yeah sure, my ID, POA and Skrill page were all fine and accepted, then I decided to forge my selife. Good one.
He's not talking bull.
Something you have sent them has gave them cause for concern, be it suspected fraudulent documents or multi accounting. It's pretty much guaranteed to be one of those. I'm not saying they are right, but that is almost certainly what it is.
 

dunover

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Were you not sarcastic to me first when you stated 'When you have your own forum etc etc'.

Again, I don't think trying to keep the thread to the facts is against forum rules? But anyhow you have taken the decision to moderate my posts so you can edit out anything that isn't in line with your rules.

My priority with this thread is engaging with members who are actually helpful and detailing the situation factually.
OK, fair point, but simply ignore the responses you feel are irrelevant or irksome and don't comment on them. Secondly, all members are expected to respect the house rules, which are set not by you or me and don't necessarily mean that all views expressed will be in line with yours. If people don't agree with you, please don't assume it's outright antagonistic. It's not. That's the point he was getting across.
 

maxd

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Were you not sarcastic to me first when you stated 'When you have your own forum etc etc'. ...

Not sarcasm, a simple statement of fact: when it's your house you can make the rules. When you're in our house you're expected to follow ours.

Again, I don't think trying to keep the thread to the facts is against forum rules?

Doing so by belittling and insulting your fellow forum members -- these are your peers here whether you chose to recognize that or not -- and assuming you have the right to moderate this or any other thread is not acceptable. Ignoring those basic facts is not an option, not if you wish to continue posting here.

But anyhow you have taken the decision to moderate my posts so you can edit out anything that isn't in line with your rules.

That's not how moderation works, as I've already told you:
Approval will have to be given before your posts will appear on the forums. Anything of the previous nature -- in other words continued disrespect of other forum members and so forth -- will be rejected without further comment. When you've demonstrated your ability to respect and abide by the rules the moderation restrictions on your posting will be lifted.

In any case this is the last warning you'll get: if you continue to assume that you can pick and chose how you wish to interpret the Rules you'll find that you are quite mistaken and will be given the boot. Your choice but the debate over these issues ends here.
 
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philiphewson

Newbie member
Joined
Apr 8, 2021
Location
Cork
Im going to gloss over all the above as it's not helpful to this thread.


UPDATE.

As previously stated I said I would post to ECOGRA knowing it would be a waste of time and how right I was. Below was there judgement -

So after over a month the Adjudicator has reached this judgement, ignoring still that Mr Green has at no point explained why my ID, POA, SKRILL SCREENSHOT were all accepted and why my selfie was not acceptable? No explanation of this or a why Mr Green did not request me to send an alternative selfie?. The adjudicator has ignored the fact this is against EU consumer law which supersedes the Ts and Cs of ANY EU BASED casino. Also ignoring the fact the money in the account which is being disputed was not winnings but a deposit?

I supplied all email chains between myself to the adjudicator as well as all my KYC docs for review and I WAS THE ONE who sent this screenshot of the terms from Mr Green. The Operator supplied no evidence and has received judgement in their favour?

I would expect at a minimum ECOGRA to be insisit upon an explanation from Mr Green as to why the selfie wasn't accepted and why the account was blocked instead of engaging with the player and trying to solve the situation? Obviously the last deposits should be returned as were not played with and I had a similair case years ago with COMEON who tried stealing deposits and the EU courts ruled in my favour with interest (This was forwarded to ECOGRA).

I have gambled online for over 10 years and have never heard of ECOGRA ruling in favour of a player no matter how obvious it is the operator is at fault?
 

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Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
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Malta
There are some also ruled for players. It's quite expected that the majority are ruled for casinos as they usually believe they are right when they let dispute go to ADR and they have to defend it, if they know for sure they're wrong it would be easier just sort it with the player right away.


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danofthewibble

Senior Member
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Location
UK
Ultimately then your options are to take them to court, or write-off the loss. Nothing more to do here. (Presumably you'd need to issue the claim in a Maltese court, as that's the jurisdiction you were playing under.)
 

philiphewson

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Location
Cork
There are some also ruled for players. It's quite expected that the majority are ruled for casinos as they usually believe they are right when they let dispute go to ADR and they have to defend it, if they know for sure they're wrong it would be easier just sort it with the player right away.


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Thank you for these statistics, they are telling.

Regardless of if people think ECOGRA should of shouldn't of ruled in my favour, the above screengrabs from myself show there was no evidence supplied by the operator and the adjudicator seems to have made no attempt to seek explanation from the operator. A casino operating in the EU cannot act in the above way and simply point to Ts and Cs and expect that to be enough. They are governed by consumer law.
 

philiphewson

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Apr 8, 2021
Location
Cork
Ultimately then your options are to take them to court, or write-off the loss. Nothing more to do here. (Presumably you'd need to issue the claim in a Maltese court, as that's the jurisdiction you were playing under.)

I would accepts a loss had I gambled the money. Mr Green not allowing me to play with deposit and their actions here constitute theft.

Yes you can file an EU court claim, which I have done, however this has already cost more then the money taken.
 

Mouse75

Experienced Member
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Nov 16, 2018
Location
Southport
Personally, I wish you all the best - but it might be a long haul - and although morally wrong, might be better to cut your losses and move on
 

philiphewson

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Location
Cork
Here is MGAs response to my email where I wished to lodge a complaint against the ADR and queried how the MGA would help a player who was being let down by the operator and the bodies supposedly there to protect us.

I fail to see how the MGA serves the player at all...
 

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philiphewson

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Location
Cork
Another Update. Following my complaint to the 'Manger' of ECOGRA. He replied with a screen shot of his annotations of my PDF utility bill, stating some of the L's were in bold and some of the formatting was off and he considers the case closed....To clarify:

-Mr Green had accepted my utility bill. The issue was with the selfie. The 'Manager' did not comment on any of that. The 'Manager' ignored the screen grab showing my utility bill in my online energy account with no formatting issues? The 'Manager' refused to discuss my complaint and did not send me an official complaint procedure.

I'm now off to watch the twighlight zone.
 

Slottery

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Without still seeing any documents in question or knowing anything about the issue, it seems now that you try to say they have no right to reject fraudulent utility bill only because they at some stage already approved it?

So issue never was selfie but with your current explanation, it was this utility bill and if they find it's not legit, they have right (and obligation) to reject it once they realize it's fraudulent. From PDF file is really easy to see what has been made for it, which programs used on which dates etc... If it's 100% legit and they are wrong, you probably are quite strong in court if that PDF is never touched with any software but only downloaded (just wonder how stupid any ADR manager would be to state it's manipulated if there is no any sign of it).

Still don't know any details but only one side of story but what just once again in these similar situations catch eye right away is that you are quite selective what you say, like keep repeating that utility bill was already accepted and that issue was in selfie even it now sounds that issue was quite a lot elsewhere so why keep repeating that utility bill was once accepted and it was selfie what they only can reject?

So your opinion still is that they only decided to keep your funds because they didn't like your face in selfie? Dunno how realistic that honestly sounds...
 

philiphewson

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Apr 8, 2021
Location
Cork
Can't fully understand your English here.

I've included screengrabs of what all other parties have said so not sure how I'm being selective.

Yes the utility Bill was accepted previously. I also supplied a screen grab of the bill live in my account section of my utility company in JPG format. If the bill was edited it wouldn't have been accepted months ago by Mr Green. It's all irrelevant to the issue.

I have already started court action. My posts here are for players who face similar issues and I am highlighting how little help there is for a player.

*Footnote - Even if a player does edit a utility bill, under EU law the site would still need to immediately refund the deposit IF this has not been played with due to consumer law. The operator could then take necessary action in reporting suspected fraud. This has been clarified by a solicitor.
 

danofthewibble

Senior Member
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Location
UK
Some open-source/non-Adobe PDF producers do create formatting issues. I have on a number of occasions had cause to re-print a document using CutePDF, and it has created problems with bold-letter-L, as stated above.

Sounds like whatever has been used to print the PDF has created the issue. Whether or not the original document has also been amended is of course another thing.
 

Slottery

Senior Member
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Some open-source/non-Adobe PDF producers do create formatting issues. I have on a number of occasions had cause to re-print a document using CutePDF, and it has created problems with bold-letter-L, as stated above.

Sounds like whatever has been used to print the PDF has created the issue. Whether or not the original document has also been amended is of course another thing.

But if you download utility bill as PDF (like it often is available for download), why there is need to use of any software which then naturally leaves information to docs metadata? If that utility bill is now available as PDF, there shouldn't be need to convert it to that format just to have PDF, but would imagine it's one of most common formats you can download your bill from website.
 

colinsunderland

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*Footnote - Even if a player does edit a utility bill, under EU law the site would still need to immediately refund the deposit IF this has not been played with due to consumer law. The operator could then take necessary action in reporting suspected fraud. This has been clarified by a solicitor.
Can you link to that law please?
 

philiphewson

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Location
Cork
Some open-source/non-Adobe PDF producers do create formatting issues. I have on a number of occasions had cause to re-print a document using CutePDF, and it has created problems with bold-letter-L, as stated above.

Sounds like whatever has been used to print the PDF has created the issue. Whether or not the original document has also been amended is of course another thing.
I included the bill to ECOGRA with all my KYC docs that Mr Green accepted. As well as the selfie they refused and then proceeded to block the account. I didn't print anything, it was just the PDF.

When I submitted a complaint to their managers based on the way ECOGRA handled my complaint and pointing out the operator had supplied no evidence as to why they blocked my account, ECOGRA came back highlighting my Bill PDF had some formatting that was off in their opinion. I then sent a screen shot of my bill in the back end of my energy providers account. I pointed out they were being irrelevant as this had been approved by Mr Green and I was looking for an explanation and evidence pertaining on why my selfie had been rejected. The 'Manager' (he referred to himself as such) then stated ECOGRA considered the matter closed.

So currently I still have no explanation from the operator as to what was wrong with my selfie and why they saw fit to block my account and attempt the theft of my deposits. I'm also in the position where ECOGRA have stated the matter is closed and they will not allow me to level a complaint against them for their handling (and subsequent response) of the case. Finally the MGA are taking up the position if I am not satisfied then they suggest taking it down the legal route (currently already doing this)....Is any of this an acceptable framework for players to attempt to operate in.
 

Mouse75

Experienced Member
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Nov 16, 2018
Location
Southport
*Footnote - Even if a player does edit a utility bill, under EU law the site would still need to immediately refund the deposit IF this has not been played with due to consumer law. The operator could then take necessary action in reporting suspected fraud. This has been clarified by a solicitor.
I find this somewhat dubious..... if this was the case, there is no way casinos could have the 1x to 5x wagering requirement they place in their terms and conditions...........
 

philiphewson

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Cork
I find this somewhat dubious..... if this was the case, there is no way casinos could have the 1x to 5x wagering requirement they place in their terms and conditions...........
It doesn't really matter what you or I find dubious. Its consumer law. There is no legal grounds to force a player to wager a deposit. As soon as Ive quoted consumer law to certain casinos regarding this they've processed withdrawals. The issue comes when casinos dig their heels in and a player begins legal action. The casino knows most players will just lose patience and play on slots on tables.
 
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