Midaur - Another One Bites The Dust

[mack341]

I have been drumming the fraud thing for ages now and got often enough beaten down in the threads here on CM. Good to hear it once directly from a casino rep. Maybe a spelling mistake in the name or "I used a card from a shared account" will ring different bells in your ears from now on mack.

The UK is by far the worst when it comes to fraud. Doesn't mean necessarily UK people, but the majority is. The number of closed forums is growing steadily, hence I assume the issue will just get worse and worse. The slightest slip-up in T&Cs and offers or the smallest loophole is shared within minutes with hundreds or even thousands of people who wait all day just for that kind of news. And then the casino in question gets bombarded. You can lose as an operator 5 and 6-figure sums within hours or a day, and those players are never to be seen again unless another loophole comes up.

No, no basically you said it yourself in the other thread, the automatic verification parameter is set to 'loose' and not stringent, with the result people playing the SE trick can slip through the net relatively easy. That's a commercial/staff costs etc decision the casinos have taken, and if slottery was correct about what the auditors have told him, approved by the ukgc [ who took aeons to address the glaring issues of harm caused by fobt's, and now gambling online via a credit card, so their record is indifferent at best]

nb: I never agreed with that thread about the shared account card story, at least I hope I didn't!
If I did it must have been a momentary lapse/side effect of brexit or trump debates ...You're not keeping a record of my forum transgressions I hope

 

[SpinUk]

Dear Friends, Meister Minions, Forum contributors, Affiliates, Affiliate Managers, Operators and keyboard warriors,

It is unfortunate but Midaur indeed closes its doors. The platform and license holder Infinity Gaming Solutions has decided to cease the B2C gambling operations. In the past 3 years, a number of factors have significantly impacted our business.

We thought we will give a more detailed explanation here so to avoid people assuming (since we all know what that stands for).

It is an essay but hopefully provides clarity.

Midaur has always been at the forefront of compliance and generally already complied before the regulation was enforced. As such we have always passed the stringent compliance reviews from the UKGC. In fact, we were some of the few that passed our audits clean time after time.

So here a few facts on what we did:

• We were the first that segregated bonus from real money funds and did not lock in deposits
• We were the first that honoured limits to be increased only at the end of the limit period
• We were with the first 20 operators that integrated and enforced GAMSTOP. GAMSTOP was mandatory by the GC and enforcement was
  “lose your license if you don’t”. Then suddenly it is no longer required unless you were already integrated. Thanks guys!
• We have operated the most lucrative loyalty scheme by giving back on every deposit and wager
• Our VIPS knew they could always count on an excess of 10% cashback when they had losses
• Yes, there was no Netent – but apart from them we were close to having them all and we released new games on a daily basis
• Our web design could have been upgraded, sure. Over time “what we collectively like” changes and we could have done more on that front. Then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we had a good demographic that could appreciate it.

And here a few facts on what happened:

• UKGC decides to honour a group of Mayfair snobs to form a lobby that regardless of any law has enforcing capabilities. They call themselves the ASA and we really have grown to love them.
• We have to start cutting ties with our promotors around the globe, we can’t control what they say so we can’t take the risk.
• We revamp our website, affiliate communications etc. It has to be dull because anything remotely attractive is apparently “child-friendly”. See how the love is growing? This seems to be enforced very selectively. When you are part of the big 5, the rules seem to be a bit more lenient.
• A surge in SE fraud – the GC was kind enough to educate the country on how to position yourself in such a way that you could have a good go for a free run.
• Our poor staff dealing with this nonsense still have trauma from the communications these scammers shared with them.
• Sophisticated fraud rings found plenty of ways to abuse bonuses that were designed to be fair then altered to more secure and secure. Yes, less lucrative but we wanted to make sure our employees were able to buy the nappies for their babies. A cat and mouse game in the end – thank you for the excitement.
• Now fraud got more sophisticated and we have fought the battles. From persistent feature abuse to actual RTP manipulation. YES, if planned and executed well you can still manipulate RTP’s and be a guaranteed winner. Nonetheless, we have fought back and closed the doors where we could.
• When you think you have done it all and can sit back a bit it suddenly seems that everyone is a winner. Turns out that as an industry content supplier there is no justification required, players can hit a once in a lifetime win 4 times a week or 10 times a month. Seems to be absolutely normal. That these winning accounts never return after cashing their win is absolutely normal also – who would go back to the place that made them fortunes? You end up removing certain games and find that your winning superstars also disappear. Let’s leave this one parked right there.

With a solid player base, there was nothing to worry about. The kids of our lovely fraudsters should have had great Xmas, and who would in their innocence have deserved it.

So here we are, 2019 starts and fortunately we could still afford a good roast so our bellies were filled and ready for a new year.

• By this time, we hired a small army to interact with our customers, providing them with consultations on their mental condition, helped them budgeting and provided a listening ear for the daily struggles etc.
• We also started to ask our customers to provide their source of wealth soon as they started to deposit amounts equal to less than half an average salary. As a result, we had to say goodbye to a large number of our customers who were not comfortable in providing this.
• During an audit from the GC we were confronted with the fact that we allowed winnings to be recycled. I.e. if someone had won £20K and subsequently lost £10K of that we were irresponsible and failing policy set out by the GC. So, what happens is our players win a few thousand, they withdraw and start depositing again. We interact and have to ask “can you afford this”, where does your wealth come from? The player says – I won, I got it from you. On which we are forced to respond, sorry but ordinarily you would not deposit this much so we cannot allow you to deposit your winnings. Also, can you please let us know your annual income so we can determine an appropriate deposit limit. At this stage, our customers are disappointed and leave. Probably to dump their winnings with the big 5 who seem to have a respawning get out of jail free card.

As we all know this craze is only getting worse. It seems that if you are one of the big names you can bluntly fail on social responsibility and just pay the fine. Make 20 million and pay 5 in fines. Sounds like a good deal to us. We were baffled by the fact that these license breaches that unconditionally should lead to a license suspension or revocation were settled with a fine worth a fraction of profits.

We have now arrived in late 2019, mandatory affordability is implemented. We spend a lot on designing a system that handles this for us. We estimate the average disposable income and confirm it with our customers on registration. The system automatically applies a deposit limit and if the player wants to increase this limit, they have to prove their annual income, household expenditure etc. So, rather you pay huge fees to Google for clicks, CPA’s or hybrids to affiliates, name any marketing, you must immediately vet and restrict this customer to amounts that are often below your acquisition cost. Not to mention the big risk of losing the customer very quickly when you limit their play after a win or ask them to send a payslip. Now we have not yet mentioned that players also win .

Ultimately there are a large number of factors that have resulted in the final decision to close down the B2C gambling activities of Infinity Gaming Solutions in the UK market. The reasons addressed in this comment have been the main drivers.

We hope you appreciate our elaborated feedback.

We want to thank all our players that have been with us through the years and we are sad to be saying goodbye.

Haters we love you, friends we care about you deeply!

Best post ever on Casinomeister.

Dear all,

As much as I would love to spill the beans, these conversations can lead to disclosures and it is not in my remit to do this publicly.

T&C’s is an ongoing battle and indeed slip-ups are pricey. @Slottery hits the nail on its head and these were a lot harder to fight.

I will close with sharing the knowledge that although the RNG’s are audited and certified, the hosting environments and codebases (of the games) of some suppliers are vulnerable. So yes, its 100% fair if you play fair. Just paint the picture of a developer leaving a back door open or techies finding one so they can have a good Xmas by triggering wins here and there. Surely once a supplier finds a leak they close it, but without mandatory audits on their reports, liability can be easily denied. these are attacks that as an operator are very hard to protect against.

Thank you all for the nice feedback!

Armed with that knowledge and the loss of your business you worked hard for against unfair advantage from competitors I know what I’d being doing right now.

 

[Harry_BKK]

No, no basically you said it yourself in the other thread, the automatic verification parameter is set to 'loose' and not stringent, with the result people playing the SE trick can slip through the net relatively easy. That's a commercial/staff costs etc decision the casinos have taken, and if slottery was correct about what the auditors have told him, approved by the ukgc [ who took aeons to address the glaring issues of harm caused by fobt's, and now gambling online via a credit card, so their record is indifferent at best]

nb: I never agreed with that thread about the shared account card story, at least I hope I didn't!
If I did it must have been a momentary lapse/side effect of brexit or trump debates ...You're not keeping a record of my forum transgressions I hope

LOL mack, I meant in general, not specifically you. The stories we hear in the various threads appear in a very different light once you read what somebody "in the know" posts.

Sure, the operators could choose a tighter setting for verifications etc. but where do you draw the line? Employ 20 people just to follow-up on false flags? A new casino has usually 1,000s of new accounts each day in the beginning if they did their marketing right. Let 500 of those be flagged (so they can't deposit and often never return), another 200 fleece you because of some slip-up, 50 players win and withdraw, another 100 deposit only a tenner before buggering off, etc...... and you can pretty much close your doors after the first day as you will be running out of hard cash to pay everyone. This is an extreme case but it roughly tells you how it happens.

Now let more fraudsters get the news of the "loophole" and you are done before you took off the ground properly. And that is an ongoing fight, it never stops.

 

[EkJR]

He is right though. William Hill in particular have a proven broken age verification tool, allow any number if duplicate accounts, never have any contact with a customer yet time and again they get away with it unless someone has stolen from an employer to fund their gambling, that's what they get fined on. I have some sympathy for Midaur and a number of the smaller operators. There is almost an oligopoly on the industry by the big 4 or 5 who get away with murder constantly.

 

[goatwack]

That's about as close to an honest whistleblower we're ever likely to see on CM! Now imagine all casinos were that upfront about the goings-on in the industry, it'd be a beautiful world

.....and now he's leaving

Mexico I assume

 

[EkJR]

And also on dealings with the UKGC before they havent really entertained me on WH or Ladbrokes but couldn't wait to get involved with a couple of the small ones.

 

[Moom]

I found this casino to have very good SR policies. I once made about 6 small deposits of about £30 and they blocked my account because they thought I was gambling more than I originally wanted. They then contacted me to ask me why I was depositing multiple times in a short time.

It was only a small amount of money, but they looked at the activity and took action.

 

[goatwack]

So going by what I'm seeing it's less 'clipjoints being drained out of the swamp' and more 'UKGC choke-hold on smaller operators forcing them to leave'

Because that's what we really need, to drive knowledgeable and transparent professionals out of the industry

 

[mack341]

LOL mack, I meant in general, not specifically you. The stories we hear in the various threads appear in a very different light once you read what somebody "in the know" posts.

Sure, the operators could choose a tighter setting for verifications etc. but where do you draw the line? Employ 20 people just to follow-up on false flags? A new casino has usually 1,000s of new accounts each day in the beginning if they did their marketing right. Let 500 of those be flagged (so they can't deposit and often never return), another 200 fleece you because of some slip-up, 50 players win and withdraw, another 100 deposit only a tenner before buggering off, etc...... and you can pretty much close your doors after the first day as you will be running of hard cash to pay everyone. This is an extreme case but it roughly tells you how it happens.

Now let more fraudsters get the news of the "loophole" and you are done before you took off the ground properly. And that is an ongoing fight, it never stops.

Would the flag rate really ever be that high though, 50%, if the automatic checks are based on the electoral roll held name and the credit agencies?

I guess what could be happening also is, people are using a mobile device to sign up, and it just makes mistakes more likely because of the keyboard/screen size, clumsy fingers etc..

Maybe we need some sort of unique number, like the national insurance number in the uk, which you could apply for from the ukgc, would perhaps help stop the multiple sign ups etc..

I want a level playing field, I don't want to gamble at a casino and another player is doing it for free, however each case like the robret one has to be judged individually apparently the SE at Leo didn't cover RP, he could be genuine and made a typing mistake.

Edit: sorry going off topic here ^^ don't want this to turn into the robret #2 thread, the last thing we need!

 

[goatwack]

We don't talk about Robretgate round these 'ere parts

 

[Slottery]

Maybe we need some sort of unique number, like the national insurance number in the uk, which you could apply for from the ukgc, would perhaps help stop the multiple sign ups etc..

Maybe after getting ready with Brexit there could be time to implement bank id or something similar to UK as well. No mistakes in details and failing SE:s because of that (and Gamstop could rely to that number instead of several details which are vulnerable already for spelling mistakes and "mistakes").

 

[geordiecolin]

Very interesting and revealing explaination of why you have had to close your doors @MidaurOnlineCasino

Could you please explain a little more to me who the "Mayfair Snobs" are,what ASA is as well as how they have influence?

When you think you have done it all and can sit back a bit it suddenly seems that everyone is a winner. Turns out that as an industry content supplier there is no justification required, players can hit a once in a lifetime win 4 times a week or 10 times a month. Seems to be absolutely normal. That these winning accounts never return after cashing their win is absolutely normal also – who would go back to the place that made them fortunes? You end up removing certain games and find that your winning superstars also disappear. Let’s leave this one parked right there.

Could you please expand on the above statement in order that I can understand what you mean clearer please?

Can you confirm if streamers have had any effect on your income good or bad?

Thank you for being so candid

 

[geordiecolin]

Something that I must mention about that wonderfully loaded post was the incite into what it means to be a staff member working for a Casino of Midaurs size and the pressures that they seemed to of had to endure.
It is woth considering when communicating with a casinos staff

 

[dionysus]

Something that I must mention about that wonderfully loaded post was the incite into what it means to be a staff member working for a Casino of Midaurs size and the pressures that they seemed to of had to endure.
It is woth considering when communicating with a casinos staff

I know wtih some of the smaller outfits (and likely larger as well) it's people wearing many diffeerent hats

ie the 'support guy' could also be responsible for forum mngt, aff related tasks, gen mamger, tech etc

 

[MidaurOnlineCasino]

Hi @geordiecolin,

asa.org.uk. The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) is the self-regulatory organisation of the advertising industry in the United Kingdom. The ASA is a non-statutory organisation and so cannot interpret or enforce legislation.

The removing of streamers and influencers as well as independent affiliate mailing campaigns and affiliate websites that did not comply with the rules of the ASA has most certainly cut significant income streams.

"Could you please expand on the above statement in order that I can understand what you mean clearer please? " I have done so a few posts further down (post #50).

@dionysus - you are right many staff wears many hats as there are a large number of tasks and sub-tasks to be fulfilled.

Being Candid as requested, hopefully this suffices

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi @geordiecolin,

asa.org.uk. The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) is the self-regulatory organisation of the advertising industry in the United Kingdom. The ASA is a non-statutory organisation and so cannot interpret or enforce legislation.

The removing of streamers and influencers as well as independent affiliate mailing campaigns and affiliate websites that did not comply with the rules of the ASA has most certainly cut significant income streams.

Oh thats a shame, the UK gambling industry having to comply with the same advertising standards as every other advertiser in the uk

 

[pinnit2014]

That's about as close to an honest whistleblower we're ever likely to see on CM! Now imagine all casinos were that upfront about the goings-on in the industry, it'd be a beautiful world

.....and now he's leaving

Mexico I assume

Rumour has it they are @snorky510238

Unconfirmed

But in all likelihood, true

 

[dunover]

Dear Friends, Meister Minions, Forum contributors, Affiliates, Affiliate Managers, Operators and keyboard warriors,

It is unfortunate but Midaur indeed closes its doors. The platform and license holder Infinity Gaming Solutions has decided to cease the B2C gambling operations. In the past 3 years, a number of factors have significantly impacted our business.

We thought we will give a more detailed explanation here so to avoid people assuming (since we all know what that stands for).

It is an essay but hopefully provides clarity.

Midaur has always been at the forefront of compliance and generally already complied before the regulation was enforced. As such we have always passed the stringent compliance reviews from the UKGC. In fact, we were some of the few that passed our audits clean time after time.

So here a few facts on what we did:

• We were the first that segregated bonus from real money funds and did not lock in deposits
• We were the first that honoured limits to be increased only at the end of the limit period
• We were with the first 20 operators that integrated and enforced GAMSTOP. GAMSTOP was mandatory by the GC and enforcement was
  “lose your license if you don’t”. Then suddenly it is no longer required unless you were already integrated. Thanks guys!
• We have operated the most lucrative loyalty scheme by giving back on every deposit and wager
• Our VIPS knew they could always count on an excess of 10% cashback when they had losses
• Yes, there was no Netent – but apart from them we were close to having them all and we released new games on a daily basis
• Our web design could have been upgraded, sure. Over time “what we collectively like” changes and we could have done more on that front. Then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we had a good demographic that could appreciate it.

And here a few facts on what happened:

• UKGC decides to honour a group of Mayfair snobs to form a lobby that regardless of any law has enforcing capabilities. They call themselves the ASA and we really have grown to love them.
• We have to start cutting ties with our promotors around the globe, we can’t control what they say so we can’t take the risk.
• We revamp our website, affiliate communications etc. It has to be dull because anything remotely attractive is apparently “child-friendly”. See how the love is growing? This seems to be enforced very selectively. When you are part of the big 5, the rules seem to be a bit more lenient.
• A surge in SE fraud – the GC was kind enough to educate the country on how to position yourself in such a way that you could have a good go for a free run.
• Our poor staff dealing with this nonsense still have trauma from the communications these scammers shared with them.
• Sophisticated fraud rings found plenty of ways to abuse bonuses that were designed to be fair then altered to more secure and secure. Yes, less lucrative but we wanted to make sure our employees were able to buy the nappies for their babies. A cat and mouse game in the end – thank you for the excitement.
• Now fraud got more sophisticated and we have fought the battles. From persistent feature abuse to actual RTP manipulation. YES, if planned and executed well you can still manipulate RTP’s and be a guaranteed winner. Nonetheless, we have fought back and closed the doors where we could.
• When you think you have done it all and can sit back a bit it suddenly seems that everyone is a winner. Turns out that as an industry content supplier there is no justification required, players can hit a once in a lifetime win 4 times a week or 10 times a month. Seems to be absolutely normal. That these winning accounts never return after cashing their win is absolutely normal also – who would go back to the place that made them fortunes? You end up removing certain games and find that your winning superstars also disappear. Let’s leave this one parked right there.

With a solid player base, there was nothing to worry about. The kids of our lovely fraudsters should have had great Xmas, and who would in their innocence have deserved it.

So here we are, 2019 starts and fortunately we could still afford a good roast so our bellies were filled and ready for a new year.

• By this time, we hired a small army to interact with our customers, providing them with consultations on their mental condition, helped them budgeting and provided a listening ear for the daily struggles etc.
• We also started to ask our customers to provide their source of wealth soon as they started to deposit amounts equal to less than half an average salary. As a result, we had to say goodbye to a large number of our customers who were not comfortable in providing this.
• During an audit from the GC we were confronted with the fact that we allowed winnings to be recycled. I.e. if someone had won £20K and subsequently lost £10K of that we were irresponsible and failing policy set out by the GC. So, what happens is our players win a few thousand, they withdraw and start depositing again. We interact and have to ask “can you afford this”, where does your wealth come from? The player says – I won, I got it from you. On which we are forced to respond, sorry but ordinarily you would not deposit this much so we cannot allow you to deposit your winnings. Also, can you please let us know your annual income so we can determine an appropriate deposit limit. At this stage, our customers are disappointed and leave. Probably to dump their winnings with the big 5 who seem to have a respawning get out of jail free card.

As we all know this craze is only getting worse. It seems that if you are one of the big names you can bluntly fail on social responsibility and just pay the fine. Make 20 million and pay 5 in fines. Sounds like a good deal to us. We were baffled by the fact that these license breaches that unconditionally should lead to a license suspension or revocation were settled with a fine worth a fraction of profits.

We have now arrived in late 2019, mandatory affordability is implemented. We spend a lot on designing a system that handles this for us. We estimate the average disposable income and confirm it with our customers on registration. The system automatically applies a deposit limit and if the player wants to increase this limit, they have to prove their annual income, household expenditure etc. So, rather you pay huge fees to Google for clicks, CPA’s or hybrids to affiliates, name any marketing, you must immediately vet and restrict this customer to amounts that are often below your acquisition cost. Not to mention the big risk of losing the customer very quickly when you limit their play after a win or ask them to send a payslip. Now we have not yet mentioned that players also win .

Ultimately there are a large number of factors that have resulted in the final decision to close down the B2C gambling activities of Infinity Gaming Solutions in the UK market. The reasons addressed in this comment have been the main drivers.

We hope you appreciate our elaborated feedback.

We want to thank all our players that have been with us through the years and we are sad to be saying goodbye.

Haters we love you, friends we care about you deeply!

One of the best posts I ever read here. Brilliant!

I can understand the bitterness and I hope players realize why bonuses are worse, RTP's are reduced and casinos are leaving the market. Basically, why unless you have very deep pockets, the UK market is a minefield.

This should be rewritten by hand in fountain pen with good quality calligraphy and framed on my wall.

P.S. more acid than 5 of my review and Bonanza videos put together.

 

[MidaurOnlineCasino]

@colinsunderland - you are kind of missing the point here.

While trying to avoid further discussion on this subject - the ASA has developed a special subset for gambling and anyone that remotely follows the industry knows that they are bonkers!

@pinnit2014 can you elaborate on your post so we can all enjoy the fun.

Thanks dudes!

 

[Matti]

Dear Friends, Meister Minions, Forum contributors, Affiliates, Affiliate Managers, Operators and keyboard warriors,

It is unfortunate but Midaur indeed closes its doors. The platform and license holder Infinity Gaming Solutions has decided to cease the B2C gambling operations. In the past 3 years, a number of factors have significantly impacted our business.

We thought we will give a more detailed explanation here so to avoid people assuming (since we all know what that stands for).

It is an essay but hopefully provides clarity.

Midaur has always been at the forefront of compliance and generally already complied before the regulation was enforced. As such we have always passed the stringent compliance reviews from the UKGC. In fact, we were some of the few that passed our audits clean time after time.

So here a few facts on what we did:

• We were the first that segregated bonus from real money funds and did not lock in deposits
• We were the first that honoured limits to be increased only at the end of the limit period
• We were with the first 20 operators that integrated and enforced GAMSTOP. GAMSTOP was mandatory by the GC and enforcement was
  “lose your license if you don’t”. Then suddenly it is no longer required unless you were already integrated. Thanks guys!
• We have operated the most lucrative loyalty scheme by giving back on every deposit and wager
• Our VIPS knew they could always count on an excess of 10% cashback when they had losses
• Yes, there was no Netent – but apart from them we were close to having them all and we released new games on a daily basis
• Our web design could have been upgraded, sure. Over time “what we collectively like” changes and we could have done more on that front. Then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we had a good demographic that could appreciate it.

And here a few facts on what happened:

• UKGC decides to honour a group of Mayfair snobs to form a lobby that regardless of any law has enforcing capabilities. They call themselves the ASA and we really have grown to love them.
• We have to start cutting ties with our promotors around the globe, we can’t control what they say so we can’t take the risk.
• We revamp our website, affiliate communications etc. It has to be dull because anything remotely attractive is apparently “child-friendly”. See how the love is growing? This seems to be enforced very selectively. When you are part of the big 5, the rules seem to be a bit more lenient.
• A surge in SE fraud – the GC was kind enough to educate the country on how to position yourself in such a way that you could have a good go for a free run.
• Our poor staff dealing with this nonsense still have trauma from the communications these scammers shared with them.
• Sophisticated fraud rings found plenty of ways to abuse bonuses that were designed to be fair then altered to more secure and secure. Yes, less lucrative but we wanted to make sure our employees were able to buy the nappies for their babies. A cat and mouse game in the end – thank you for the excitement.
• Now fraud got more sophisticated and we have fought the battles. From persistent feature abuse to actual RTP manipulation. YES, if planned and executed well you can still manipulate RTP’s and be a guaranteed winner. Nonetheless, we have fought back and closed the doors where we could.
• When you think you have done it all and can sit back a bit it suddenly seems that everyone is a winner. Turns out that as an industry content supplier there is no justification required, players can hit a once in a lifetime win 4 times a week or 10 times a month. Seems to be absolutely normal. That these winning accounts never return after cashing their win is absolutely normal also – who would go back to the place that made them fortunes? You end up removing certain games and find that your winning superstars also disappear. Let’s leave this one parked right there.

With a solid player base, there was nothing to worry about. The kids of our lovely fraudsters should have had great Xmas, and who would in their innocence have deserved it.

So here we are, 2019 starts and fortunately we could still afford a good roast so our bellies were filled and ready for a new year.

• By this time, we hired a small army to interact with our customers, providing them with consultations on their mental condition, helped them budgeting and provided a listening ear for the daily struggles etc.
• We also started to ask our customers to provide their source of wealth soon as they started to deposit amounts equal to less than half an average salary. As a result, we had to say goodbye to a large number of our customers who were not comfortable in providing this.
• During an audit from the GC we were confronted with the fact that we allowed winnings to be recycled. I.e. if someone had won £20K and subsequently lost £10K of that we were irresponsible and failing policy set out by the GC. So, what happens is our players win a few thousand, they withdraw and start depositing again. We interact and have to ask “can you afford this”, where does your wealth come from? The player says – I won, I got it from you. On which we are forced to respond, sorry but ordinarily you would not deposit this much so we cannot allow you to deposit your winnings. Also, can you please let us know your annual income so we can determine an appropriate deposit limit. At this stage, our customers are disappointed and leave. Probably to dump their winnings with the big 5 who seem to have a respawning get out of jail free card.

As we all know this craze is only getting worse. It seems that if you are one of the big names you can bluntly fail on social responsibility and just pay the fine. Make 20 million and pay 5 in fines. Sounds like a good deal to us. We were baffled by the fact that these license breaches that unconditionally should lead to a license suspension or revocation were settled with a fine worth a fraction of profits.

We have now arrived in late 2019, mandatory affordability is implemented. We spend a lot on designing a system that handles this for us. We estimate the average disposable income and confirm it with our customers on registration. The system automatically applies a deposit limit and if the player wants to increase this limit, they have to prove their annual income, household expenditure etc. So, rather you pay huge fees to Google for clicks, CPA’s or hybrids to affiliates, name any marketing, you must immediately vet and restrict this customer to amounts that are often below your acquisition cost. Not to mention the big risk of losing the customer very quickly when you limit their play after a win or ask them to send a payslip. Now we have not yet mentioned that players also win .

Ultimately there are a large number of factors that have resulted in the final decision to close down the B2C gambling activities of Infinity Gaming Solutions in the UK market. The reasons addressed in this comment have been the main drivers.

We hope you appreciate our elaborated feedback.

We want to thank all our players that have been with us through the years and we are sad to be saying goodbye.

Haters we love you, friends we care about you deeply!

I know many will not like me saying this considering the respons your post has received but this is what I get from reading your post:

Your post is mostly about you 1. complaining about the UKGC and the LCCP, 2. how you're not allowed to market yourself the way you want, and 3. that you have suspicions(or a tin foil hat) when it comes to some of your game providers.

My conclusion is that 1. your operation were to small to cope with all the regulatory changes that happened and that 2. your customer acquisition was in the grey scale of what is now considered appropriate and 3. you also problems with fraudsters since you didn't have enough resources to fight that battle that is running 24/7/365.

 

[pinnit2014]

@colinsunderland - you are kind of missing the point here.

While trying to avoid further discussion on this subject - the ASA has developed a special subset for gambling and anyone that remotely follows the industry knows that they are bonkers!

@pinnit2014 can you elaborate on your post so we can all enjoy the fun.

Thanks dudes!

Snorky is known as Deepthroat in these neck of the woods. Should say it all....

He plays Bonanza so he's no longer got Deep Pockets though

 

[colinsunderland]

I know many will not like me saying this considering the respons your post has received but this is what I get from reading your post:

Your post is mostly about you 1. complaining about the UKGC and the LCCP, 2. how you're not allowed to market yourself the way you want, and 3. that you have suspicions(or a tin foil hat) when it comes to some of your game providers.

My conclusion is that 1. your operation were to small to cope with all the regulatory changes that happened and that 2. your customer acquisition was in the grey scale of what is now considered appropriate and 3. you also problems with fraudsters since you didn't have enough resources to fight that battle that is running 24/7/365.

Thats what I got from it too, along with another couple of similar points. I just didn't respond because of the current love being shown for them, despite the 2 dedicated threads about them being pretty much the opposite.

@MidaurOnlineCasino I know exactly what the CAP code is and totally agree with it. I don't want to see shit like 'OMG I found out I had cancer, feeling depressed, deposited £10 at x casino, won £1000000 on my first spin' or 'Sign up now, get £500 free, no deposit required' to click through and find out you get 10 x 10p starbusrt spins with a 500x wagering requirement on a £50 first deposit. You obviously think lying to customers and spamming them is acceptable though, which is what was happened before the first penalties were handed out. It was against the CAP code long before that point too, and before you had your UKGC license issued. If you weren't following the CAP code from the start then thats down to you, no one else.

 

[colinsunderland]

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Theres a thread showing how great it was before the CAP code was enforced

 

[MidaurOnlineCasino]

Hi @Matti,

I would differ from your statements and I believe the initial post also concludes that.
It is indeed true that the continues updates of the LCCP have been received as cannibalistic on the industry.
Fraud - I don't have to defend the cases. We battled we won but lost a lot along the way.

Thanks @colinsunderland - still missing the point, clearly we are referring to other subjects that are widely discussed in the industry but that you are intentionally leaving out.

Guy's all our battles are done - no need for further discussions with the same people over the same BS. We are not here for you but for the others with which we have healthy discussions.

Want to kick us whilst we are down - go ahead! spread the love!

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi @Matti,

I would differ from your statements and I believe the initial post also concludes that.
It is indeed true that the continues updates of the LCCP have been received as cannibalistic on the industry.
Fraud - I don't have to defend the cases. We battled we won but lost a lot along the way.

Thanks @colinsunderland - still missing the point, clearly we are referring to other subjects that are widely discussed in the industry but that you are intentionally leaving out.

Guy's all our battles are done - no need for further discussions with the same people over the same BS. We are not here for you but for the others with which we have healthy discussions.

Want to kick us whilst we are down - go ahead! spread the love!

Which subjects? You attacked the ASA. The only action I've seen them take is to stop casinos/affiliates/marketing agencies making wild and false claims, and making them include significant terms where space allows. What else have they done that has affected revenue streams?

 

[MidaurOnlineCasino]

Which subjects? You attacked the ASA. The only action I've seen them take is to stop casinos/affiliates/marketing agencies making wild and false claims, and making them include significant terms where space allows. What else have they done that has affected revenue streams?

Maybe ask some of the other operators. They might be willing to fill in the blanks for you.
No offence Collin but I don't feel like having this discussion with you.

Thanks and much love.

 

[colinsunderland]

Maybe ask some of the other operators. They might be willing to fill in the blanks for you.
No offence Collin but I don't feel like having this discussion with you.

Thanks and much love.

Well stop crying about it then. Your posts have, as Matti says, been full of 'woe is me', and attacking pretty much everything in the whole casino industry, players, UKGC, ASA, Providers, programmers, Gamstop etc rather than accepting any responsibility yourselves. Your whole attitude on here has been terrible from the start, you might as well have written 'WE HATE ANYONE TAKING A BONUS' in your previous thread when people genuinely didn't understand your complicated terms and conditions.

You know, if you hadn't been as condescending in your previous posts then more people might have played at your casino from here. Your welcome bonus of £100 max cashout was poor to say the least. You might not want to talk to me and thats fine, but I'm not the only one who thought you were condescending and rude in your posts on here. Maybe read through the thread below and see if, in hindsight, you thought you were being polite?

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Having said that, I don't like to see people lose jobs/businesses and I genuinely wish you (and your colleagues) the best for the future.

 

[goatwack]

 

[slot_zombie]

Well I for one commend the Midaur rep for coming in and posting openly. Very interesting view "from the other side" - and if it's true that big wins can be injected into games independently of the RNGs, then it follows that shit results can also be manufactured - if that isn't a cause for concern and an extra sheet of tinfoil, I don't know what is.

 

[colinsunderland]

Well I for one commend the Midaur rep for coming in and posting openly. Very interesting view "from the other side" - and if it's true that big wins can be injected into games independently of the RNGs, then it follows that shit results can also be manufactured - if that isn't a cause for concern and an extra sheet of tinfoil, I don't know what is.

I've always wondered if the coders put back doors into software. They have done in the past into fruit machines, so would be surprised if it doesn't happen with online games.

 

[slot_zombie]

I've always wondered if the coders put back doors into software. They have done in the past into fruit machines, so would be surprised if it doesn't happen with online games.

Yes but we were always told everything was "signed", checksummed, lots of security etc.. Furthermore the software provider can't "see" who the player is? Well, not if this story is accurate.

 

[goatwack]

We did it guys. We got Colin onto the Dark Side

 

[dionysus]

Unless I missed something, I dont think the rep said anything to lean into tinfoil hat theories about games not being on the up and up; rather, savvy players found exploits to well....exploit

 

[Slottery]

Not really buying that part of the story that big wins would be somehow arranged etc.... Would assume that would be much more discussed but first time heard any operator suggesting it happening (even in this island most of people you speak are working for some....)

 

[dunover]

Well stop crying about it then. Your posts have, as Matti says, been full of 'woe is me', and attacking pretty much everything in the whole casino industry, players, UKGC, ASA, Providers, programmers, Gamstop etc rather than accepting any responsibility yourselves. Your whole attitude on here has been terrible from the start, you might as well have written 'WE HATE ANYONE TAKING A BONUS' in your previous thread when people genuinely didn't understand your complicated terms and conditions.

You know, if you hadn't been as condescending in your previous posts then more people might have played at your casino from here. Your welcome bonus of £100 max cashout was poor to say the least. You might not want to talk to me and thats fine, but I'm not the only one who thought you were condescending and rude in your posts on here. Maybe read through the thread below and see if, in hindsight, you thought you were being polite?

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Having said that, I don't like to see people lose jobs/businesses and I genuinely wish you (and your colleagues) the best for the future.

Speak to the other casino operators that have left the UK and they will be pretty much singing from the same hymn sheet as Midaur. Attend ICE and speak to them.
I think it's refreshing he's actually taken the time in quite a humorous way to explain what it was like navigating through the intricacies of our market. No need to be so aggressive to a rep who has actually taken the time to explain things from their side in a little more detail than usual.

 

[colinsunderland]

Speak to the other casino operators that have left the UK and they will be pretty much singing from the same hymn sheet as Midaur. Attend ICE and speak to them.
I think it's refreshing he's actually taken the time in quite a humorous way to explain what it was like navigating through the intricacies of our market. No need to be so aggressive to a rep who has actually taken the time to explain things from their side in a little more detail than usual.

So what are the things the ASA have done that I haven't mentioned that have killed the revenue stream for casinos? You know I am pretty much up to date with the ASA and CAP and was getting onto casinos about it way before any penatlies were dished out. I genuinely don't know what else Midaur are talking about.

I wasn't being aggressive, they stated 'facts' I disagreed with their 'facts' I asked questions, they refused to answer. No different to what they have done in the past when asked questions they didn't want to answer. In the thread I linked to they were criticised by almost everyone who posted, not only for their bonus, but their attitude towards members on here, yet now they are leaving the UK, suddenly we all have to be nice to them? Lets not forget, back in July they said they were going to change the bonus terms in 10 days. They haven't posted since (until today) and also haven't changed their terms.

 

[mack341]

Ahh Mr Midaur has edited his post at 6.50pm, [I thought there was only a 2hr window to carry out editing?]

I wanted to re-read the parts about the ASA, but I noticed the section where 'mayfair snobs' was mentioned has been deleted

I did find this paragraph though:

We revamp our website, affiliate communications etc. It has to be dull because anything remotely attractive is apparently “child-friendly”. See how the love is growing? This seems to be enforced very selectively. When you are part of the big 5, the rules seem to be a bit more lenient.

That's what I took from his post re the ASA, I remember they started to accuse slots like Jack and the beanstalk of attracting children to gamble. Lots of themes resonate from childhood, pirates and treasure etc... so I presume from then on, website design became a bigger ball-ache. [Not a large issue in itself but when added to all the other rules and enforcements coming in]

 

[dunover]

It's not the performance and rules of individual agencies but the overall fragmented nature of the business. You have ASA, UKGC, CAP and whichever other acronym is relevant and sometimes these can be contradictory in their actions, for example approving compliance to games then deciding the theme cannot be used in advertising or displayed on casino home pages.
The whole industry lacks a single entity which can administer from start to finish for the operator.

The UKGC from its inception in 2007 has had nearly 12 years to understand the industry and yet has consistently failed to do so. It lacks knowledge, perception and expertise and so tries to be everything to everybody and fails miserably. True, it's better than it was but is still way short of the mark even allowing for the learning curve. It was initially staffed by Civil Service retirees in the main and clearly had little input from people who actually had sufficient knowledge of the online gambling process and market.

This is why it took them until 2015 to make operators use a UK license for UK players, why they've yet to address the issue of reversals despite this being a major RG issue for over a decade but then keep banging the RG drum.

They haven't made the obvious decision (that I know of) to make casinos list co-licensees in their offers and terms despite the huge amount of grief this has caused players SE'd from other sites when it comes to withdrawing.

They haven't issued clear and concise details of exactly what proofs SoW should require and leave it to the casino to decide if they are 'satisfied'. The same goes for levels of affordability which is why operators are being over-zealous for fear of being fined, beyond reasonable common sense and therefore to the detriment of many players. Yet none of this is applied to high street bookies.

It has consistently responded robustly to selective news articles and opinions voiced in the lefty media and BBC whilst ignoring the practicalities that actually apply to most players, some of which I mentioned above.

Their GAMSTOP scheme was all very nice on paper yet as we said could never be really effective until they worked with payment providers to ensure they only actioned UK deposits to UK-licensed sites. Now we've seen a huge rise in unlicensed gambling and the sites that promote it.

They've licensed at least a couple of criminal operators too.

I know one person who dealt with them in trying to become a licensed ADR and was staggered when it came to their ignorance and lack of industry knowledge.

So having to deal with this, the ASA and all the other agencies must be a horror show for any licensee and require a large amount of resources. The UKGC is not fit for purpose and needs to be reorganized so it takes into account all aspects of the industry, operators, players, specialist advertising and complaints.

Because at the moment there is no danger of a new corner shop growing into the next chain store.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

My personal opinion: This thread and comments from @MidaurOnlineCasino rep are really interesting and while I can’t (or won’t) comment on any individual aspect of his (or her) detailed feedback - I think it’s only right to say I don’t think the big operators are treated any different than the smaller ones, it’s likely that it’s just the size and resource can allow us to overcome them.

All the best to you and your team buddy.

Mark

 

[colinsunderland]

Ahh Mr Midaur has edited his post at 6.50pm, [I thought there was only a 2hr window to carry out editing?]

I wanted to re-read the parts about the ASA, but I noticed the section where 'mayfair snobs' was mentioned has been deleted

I did find this paragraph though:

We revamp our website, affiliate communications etc. It has to be dull because anything remotely attractive is apparently “child-friendly”. See how the love is growing? This seems to be enforced very selectively. When you are part of the big 5, the rules seem to be a bit more lenient.

That's what I took from his post re the ASA, I remember they started to accuse slots like Jack and the beanstalk of attracting children to gamble. Lots of themes resonate from childhood, pirates and treasure etc... so I presume from then on, website design became a bigger ball-ache. [Not a large issue in itself but when added to all the other rules and enforcements coming in]

I wonder who the big 5 are? I would have thought Coral and William Hill would be two of them, but apparently not as clearly from their post, Midaur seem to think the ASA/UKGC only target smaller firms

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The advertising regulator recently banned three Coral Interactive ads for featuring animated images of a rainbow, a pot of gold and a leprechaun, because they were likely to appeal to children. A William Hill advert appearing within the app New MarioKart 8 Trick was also banned for not being appropriately targeted away from children.

 

[Slottery]

Too lazy to go two pages back, but wasn't it that bigger ones can pay their fines and keep going instead of license get suspended/revoked? Something like "make 20 million, pay 5 in fines sounds good deal"

 

[mack341]

Paddy power/betfair

will hill

coral/ladbrokes

bet365

sky

perhaps this is the big uk 5?

I think he said the rules were applied a bit more leniently, in those two instances a competitor may have made a complaint and so the ASA has to be seen to act.

Big firms are treated differently, they have more influence in govt circles, whether it's through selective wining and dining, donations to political parties or just the money to legally challenge decisions and rulings, which means a regulator is more circumspect when looking at them?

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

Too lazy to go two pages back, but wasn't it that bigger ones can pay their fines and keep going instead of license get suspended/revoked? Something like "make 20 million, pay 5 in fines sounds good deal"

I saw you liked my post (thanks) but this wasn’t what I meant by saying we have the resource to deal with it. It was more about employing more staff to check everything is compliant and avoid the fines!

 

[colinsunderland]

It's not the performance and rules of individual agencies but the overall fragmented nature of the business. You have ASA, UKGC, CAP and whichever other acronym is relevant and sometimes these can be contradictory in their actions, for example approving compliance to games then deciding the theme cannot be used in advertising or displayed on casino home pages.
The whole industry lacks a single entity which can administer from start to finish for the operator.

Thats like pretty much any other government department though. Have you ever tried dealing with the council for pretty much anything? You end up speaking to 10 departments to get permission to cut a dead tree down!
I really don't see the problem in banning ads that appeal to children. There are 1000's of slots out there, why the need to promote one call Alice in Wonderland in banners on Facebook? The 'do not promote to children' rule has always been there, its not new, its just another thing casinos chose to ignore.

The UKGC from its inception in 2007 has had nearly 12 years to understand the industry and yet has consistently failed to do so. It lacks knowledge, perception and expertise and so tries to be everything to everybody and fails miserably. True, it's better than it was but is still way short of the mark even allowing for the learning curve. It was initially staffed by Civil Service retirees in the main and clearly had little input from people who actually had sufficient knowledge of the online gambling process and market.

This is why it took them until 2015 to make operators use a UK license for UK players, why they've yet to address the issue of reversals despite this being a major RG issue for over a decade but then keep banging the RG drum.

They haven't made the obvious decision (that I know of) to make casinos list co-licensees in their offers and terms despite the huge amount of grief this has caused players SE'd from other sites when it comes to withdrawing.

They haven't issued clear and concise details of exactly what proofs SoW should require and leave it to the casino to decide if they are 'satisfied'. The same goes for levels of affordability which is why operators are being over-zealous for fear of being fined, beyond reasonable common sense and therefore to the detriment of many players. Yet none of this is applied to high street bookies.

I agree with most of that, but you are wrong about high street bookies. I've seen a file of KYC documents held at my local Coral before it closed and it was MUCH bigger than I thought it would be. The SoW one was smaller, but still bigger than expected, considering the size of the shop and location. It is much harder to enforce in a shop though, and much easier for people to get round. Coral are installing face recognition cameras in all their branches at the moment, and the reason is two fold. One is so that any SE'd customer can't walk into any shop in the country without being flagged up. The second is for AML purposes. How successful it will be remains to be seen, but they aren't doing it because they felt like it, they are doing it because they were told they had to tighten up on those areas in retail outlets. For anyone who uses Coral, the cameras being used for this are mounted just behind the counter, and are white dome ones, similar to the ones below. They aren't connected yet but will be before the end of year.

Online, they have to abide by the same rules as anyone else. My view is that fines shouldn't be used. If theres evidence that they systematically have allowed people with clear gambling problems, or systematically failed to do AML checks when needed, then they should have their license suspended for 3/6 months for a first offence and 5 years for the second one. Not just the large firms, all of them. Watch how quickly things are done then.

It has consistently responded robustly to selective news articles and opinions voiced in the lefty media and BBC whilst ignoring the practicalities that actually apply to most players, some of which I mentioned above.

Their GAMSTOP scheme was all very nice on paper yet as we said could never be really effective until they worked with payment providers to ensure they only actioned UK deposits to UK-licensed sites. Now we've seen a huge rise in unlicensed gambling and the sites that promote it.

They've licensed at least a couple of criminal operators too.

I know one person who dealt with them in trying to become a licensed ADR and was staggered when it came to their ignorance and lack of industry knowledge.

I think the fact most of what the UKGC does is clueless is pretty much accepted by everyone I mean, how many people cut down gambling by only being able to play 100 autospins!

So having to deal with this, the ASA and all the other agencies must be a horror show for any licensee and require a large amount of resources. The UKGC is not fit for purpose and needs to be reorganized so it takes into account all aspects of the industry, operators, players, specialist advertising and complaints.

Because at the moment there is no danger of a new corner shop growing into the next chain store.

But the ASA and CAP codes apply to every single advertiser in the UK, not just gambling firms, and were around much earlier than most casinos. Granted there are specific CAP codes for remote operators, but the rules have been there years. In this instance Midaur seem to be implying they had to change how they did things in regard to marketing due to the ASA. But Midaur got their license in 2017, well after the 'not appeal to children' or 'must show terms' parts of the code were added. It isn't the fault of the ASA that they didn't read the rules properly. It's also not the ASA who sanction or 'fine' them, its the UKGC. The 'the big bookies get away with it' type comments are irrelevant. If you know someone who's burglaring houses and gets away with it, it doesn't mean you can do the same. Operate within the rules and you won't get in trouble.

I know it's not easy for casinos to operate in the UK, but certain things are easy to follow, CAP codes are one of them in my view.

 

[colinsunderland]

Paddy power/betfair

will hill

coral/ladbrokes

bet365

sky

perhaps this is the big uk 5?

I think he said the rules were applied a bit more leniently, in those two instances a competitor may have made a complaint and so the ASA has to be seen to act.

Big firms are treated differently, they have more influence in govt circles, whether it's through selective wining and dining, donations to political parties or just the money to legally challenge decisions and rulings, which means a regulator is more circumspect when looking at them?

I actually think they are treated harsher if anything. Look at all the firms that have been fined millions, how many of them were smaller ones, not just for advertising, for RG & AML issues too. I actually think the UKGC aren't stupid. They want a revenue stream, fining Midaur £8 million for example, would pretty much mean they stop trading, go bankrupt and the UKGC get nothing, and the government don't get the 21% tax from them going forward. Fine Coral £8 million, they get the money, and keep getting the wads of tax money going forward.

 

[Slottery]

I saw you liked my post (thanks) but this wasn’t what I meant by saying we have the resource to deal with it. It was more about employing more staff to check everything is compliant and avoid the fines!

No @Mark_32Red , i liked your post and agree that i don't think that bigger operators get any special service but same regulations apply for all.

My post had nothing to do with yours (would have quoted you in that case) but tried from memory quote what Midaur rep stated that they feel big operators only pay fines and go on instead of losing license etc....

 

[mack341]

I actually think they are treated harsher if anything. Look at all the firms that have been fined millions, how many of them were smaller ones, not just for advertising, for RG & AML issues too. I actually think the UKGC aren't stupid. They want a revenue stream, fining Midaur £8 million for example, would pretty much mean they stop trading, go bankrupt and the UKGC get nothing, and the government don't get the 21% tax from them going forward. Fine Coral £8 million, they get the money, and keep getting the wads of tax money going forward.

You know the business more than me Col. I just thought his post had balance and wit, he's obviously quite a intelligent person to be able to write that well. He was relaying his thoughts and views from the perspective of running a smaller casino, it's his impressions gained from his own direct experience.

I don't like the look of that camera btw, you see that kind of thing will be another cost to a small independent bookmaker business, if there are any left that is. I get a feeling half this stuff is about the ukgc staff and directors having something to do and meetings to talk about. They'll never be happy.... an instance of kowtowing to big interests and firms has just come to mind also, the loot crates in video games, make all that fuss about jatb and yet loot crates are okay.

"A key factor in deciding if that line has been crossed is whether in-game items acquired ‘via a game of chance’ can be considered money or money’s worth. In practical terms this means that where in-game items obtained via loot boxes are confined for use within the game and cannot be cashed out it is unlikely to be caught as a licensable gambling activity. In those cases our legal powers would not allow us to step in. "

I wonder where the ASA are also regarding loot boxes and exploiting children through video game mechanics

 

[Playford7]

You know the business more than me Col. I just thought his post had balance and wit, he's obviously quite a intelligent person to be able to write that well. He was relaying his thoughts and views from the perspective of running a smaller casino, it's his impressions gained from his own direct experience.

I don't like the look of that camera btw, you see that kind of thing will be another cost to a small independent bookmaker business, if there are any left that is. I get a feeling half this stuff is about the ukgc staff and directors having something to do and meetings to talk about. They'll never be happy.... an instance of kowtowing to big interests and firms has just come to mind also, the loot crates in video games, make all that fuss about jatb and yet loot crates are okay.

"A key factor in deciding if that line has been crossed is whether in-game items acquired ‘via a game of chance’ can be considered money or money’s worth. In practical terms this means that where in-game items obtained via loot boxes are confined for use within the game and cannot be cashed out it is unlikely to be caught as a licensable gambling activity. In those cases our legal powers would not allow us to step in. "

I wonder where the ASA are also regarding loot boxes and exploiting children through video game mechanics

Yep that’s been looked into. Also a abhorrent thing.
Chip that great guy whom got me banned had a joint slot and box opening channel for his ‘business’
Make of that what you will, I’m seriously done getting banned for the likes of him.
Midaur where not a good casino and the rep all respect to him came on to explain how he’s gutted it’s all finished.
Also a few more valid points.
He also didn’t mention how his thread and responses regarding the bonus thread where about as customer friendly as a jimmy saville child minding business.
Blaming all for the the fact they are toast.
I’m genuinely happy the ukgc are ridding the uk market of waste of time clip joints.
We will still be left with many a casino to waste our money with.
It’s been the wild Wild West for too long, how the tables have turned..

 

[colinsunderland]

I'm not claiming to know more than anyone else, just making observations. I thought the tone of the whole post was exactly how the rep has addressed the forum throughout the BFF thread and the one created when passed. Any slight thing that was picked up on was someone elses fault, never their own. I agree with some of what they say, but they are leaving the market, blaming everyone except the janitor's cat, but don't once, say they got anything wrong. No one wants to admit mistakes, but everyone does, even me

I picked up on the ASA part as not only did they speak about them as 'Mayfair Snobs' but what they were saying was, in my opinion, wrong. I also don't agree with what they say in other parts but the post would have been about 20 pages long, so just left it at one lol. They won't answer me as they know I'm correct and don't like me for pulling them to bits in previous threads about the bonus. If you read through the 2 main threads, anytime anything was mentioned that wasn't 'you're great' they responded with stupid gifs, or basically we're right, talk to the hand. They were also rude and condescending, and if you look at the post where the member stood to lose over £4k, you will see one example of it. Yes they were in the right, but it could have been handled better.

What worries me about the camera is the fact they will be able to link bets to customers, something they tried and failed (to a point) to do with the connect card. When I'm putting a £200 bet on a 12/1 shot, I do 4 x £50 bets in 4 different shops. Thats to stop the price crashing as quickly and so I don't get restricted/banned. I'll bet within 2 years I post how I'm banned from retail outlets of certain bookmakers, if they all install them.

I don't know anywhere near enough to comment on loot boxes to comment, but you can be sure they are getting looked at with a view to extracting money from them at some point in the future.

 

[EkJR]

My personal opinion: This thread and comments from @MidaurOnlineCasino rep are really interesting and while I can’t (or won’t) comment on any individual aspect of his (or her) detailed feedback - I think it’s only right to say I don’t think the big operators are treated any different than the smaller ones, it’s likely that it’s just the size and resource can allow us to overcome them.

All the best to you and your team buddy.

Mark

Perhaps you are right. However, from personal experience the UKGC were far quicker to react to a small to medium size operator than have to go to one of the "big 5". Perhaps it's because of the size and resource and the amount of investigation required.

They seem to need to produce a hell of a lot of evidence to act. In the last WH fine for example there were some 30 players who had stolen from employers to fund gambling, spent 10's(and more) of thousands of pounds and never had even so much as one conversation or interaction with the operator. Where as fines for Daub for instance were formed from a handful of cases.

Some of the worst casinos have left the market though so we can all he happy about that. Have no experience of Midaur so cant comment on them, but it's a survival of the fittest at the moment