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MG $100 bonus -turns into $200 bonus???

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by AussieDave, Dec 28, 2008.

    Dec 28, 2008
  1. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Maybe I'm going loopy in my old age but this just doesn't seem right to me.

    I received a $100 comp from Casinoshare for Christmas. Which meant I had - Real Cash $0 and Bonus Cash $100. The WR is 30x.

    I began play and not too long after I got a nice little win. So decided to change games, when I moused over the current bonus cash window, I discover that my Real Cash $5 but my Bonus Cash is now sitting on $224.

    Now as far as I'm aware the MG Ez Bonus (or whatever they call it) work like this. For every $300 dollars of bonus money wagered $10 of that is released & it goes to your real cash account.

    However any wins from the bonus money that are above the original bonus or part there of are released and this goes directly to your real cash account.

    Anyway I took some screen caps.

    The way I see it, I had $100 that required a 30x WR. But when I won instead of the $124 going into my real cash account (which would have meant I had $129 total) it got added to the bonus account. So at that point instead of a $3,000 WR I was now forced to roll over a $6,000+ WR.

    However if you look at the second screen capture and after another nice win, I've got $131 in real cash :confused:

    If anyone would like to give me feedback or tell me if my idea of the MG eZ bonus is screwed then I'd sure appreciate a heads up. On the other hand if I'm right then please advise :thumbsup:


    Cheers
    T
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  2. Dec 28, 2008
  3. ether

    ether Banned User

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Europe
    You probably had a $124 bonus when you last played. As there was no real money deposit made after that, the new bonus topped up the existing bonus balance. So that means your bonus balance became $224, and only winning over that go to the cash balance. This is how the Microgaming software works.
     
  4. Dec 28, 2008
  5. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    The account was empty (no real cash) and only the $100 bonus. The playcheck clearly shows the $100 credit when I commenced play.

    Reiterating my previous words... Anything won over and above the $100 bonus should be credited to my real cash account. Not added to the $100 bonus. Otherwise it turns the $3,000 WR into a $6,000+ WR.

    Which basically means that the $124 I won from the $100 bonus should have been added to my real cash account not the bonus account! It also meant that my play thru was affected by this c@ck up too.

    Edit: Oh and btw this is not the first time I've seen this happen on my CasinoShare account.
    Other times I was either tired - I tend to play in the wee hour of the AM, and it simply didn't register. In addition there is always a deposit.

    This is the first time I've really taken any notice & followed it thru. Because I had no other money in play apart from the $100 bonus. Thus realising that I've been shafted.

    My next obvious question to myself is how long has this been happening for. That is how many other times had this bonus screw up taken place and my WR has been stuffed because of this software (bug) error?

    Cheers

    T
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  6. Dec 28, 2008
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Around 2 YEARS. Clearly, this is intended, as it has been brought to the attention of both MGS and eCogra (complaint about same at Grand Prive).

    In effect, WR HAS A CARRY OVER under the MG bonus system, whereas previously zeroing out on a bonus meant WR was reset to zero. This is one of those sneaky things that got slipped in, and is only occasionally noticed.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Dec 28, 2008
  9. XOXOXOXOXOX

    XOXOXOXOXOX Let em spin... PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Software developer
    Location:
    O Canada!
    Before depositing I always check this screen.... If there is a message like that, then most likely you have something from your previews bonus on your account even thought your balance is 0.

    Usually casino reps can remove it however not sure about your case since it's from your winnings but I would ask them.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Dec 28, 2008
  11. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks VW, so what should I do about it, or is there anything I can do about it with the casino? Because if this has taken place all every session then it's not a small matter :eek:

    XOXOXOXOXOX thank you also. I took a screen cap like yours however it clearly shows that no WR is in play?

    Edit: I decided to click on the link (right top) to read their explanation of the withdrawal cash versus bonus money.

    What my beef is now, that if the $124 wasn't added to the bonus account, but my real cash account I could have cashed in $129.

    So my question is , now that I've been shafted out of making a withdrawal of the $129 that was supposed to me added to my cash account. How many other times has this happen and money I was rightfully entitled to cash out has been credited to the bonus account???

    I'm going to insist that CasinoShare do a complete audit of my account. As they are not eCogra sealed I can't take it up with them.

    Cheers
    T
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  12. Dec 28, 2008
  13. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Here are the current Bonus T&C's:
    TTThttp://www.casinoshare.com/TermsAndConditions.aspx

    Bonus System - Terms & Conditions
    A Player's Total account balance consists of a Cash account balance and a Bonus account balance.
    The total account balance will appear when you are logged on and playing in the casino.
    A player's Cash account may be cashed out at any time (except for new players who have received the opening offer bonus and have not met both the 250 minimum number of bets and 40x wagering play-through requirement).
    A player's Bonus account may not be cashed out but can be used to place wagers.
    Once the player has wagered the required play-through 30x10 bonus credits for ongoing bonuses, the 10 bonus credits automatically transfer into the cash account.

    Example
    Assume the player starts with the following balances:
    - Cash Account Balance - 100
    - Bonus Account Balance - 100

    Then the player wagers on Slots* 300 credits (30x10 credits). Following this wagering assume the player has not lost. The player will then have the following balances:
    - Cash Account Balance - 110
    - Bonus Account Balance - 90

    *Other game types contribute different wagering percentages. See item 8 below.


    As the required play-through requirements are met, funds are automatically transferred to the Player's Cash Account from the Player's Bonus account.
    Play-through requirements are achieved when real money wagers are made from either the Cash or Bonus Accounts.
    Different games played contribute different percentages of the wager made toward the 30x play-through requirements.
    Game type contributions are as follows:
    - Slots and Parlor Games - 100%
    - Table Poker, Roulette
    - 25% - Blackjack, Video Poker, Craps, Baccarat, Casino War, Sicbo - 5%
    - Progressive Slots and Games, Red Dog, All Aces and Jacks or Better Video Poker - 0%


    For any bet made, the wager is deducted from the player's Cash account. If there is no cash available, then the wager is deducted from the player's Bonus account. Funds in the player's Bonus account are used only if there is no Cash account balance.
    Any bets made in the gamble feature of a slot game, does not count towards a player's play-through requirement. Only the initial bet in the slot game will count towards the required play-through.
    If a player makes a withdrawal from his Cash account, then the player loses any bonus credits available in the Bonus Account.
    Before processing a withdrawal, players have a final opportunity to decide whether to withdraw their Cash balance or continue playing in order to qualify the remaining portion of their Bonus account balance.
    If a player chooses to withdrawal a purchase, then they will lose any Bonus money they have in their Bonus Account or will become ineligible to receive a bonus on the respective purchase.
    Winning bets made from a player's Cash account is credited directly to their Cash account and available for withdrawal.
    Winning bets made from a player's Bonus account are credited to their Bonus account first and then the cash account. If crediting a player's Bonus account with winnings exceeds the size of the original Bonus amount (less earned credits), then the excess winnings are credited to the player's Cash account.

    Found interesting piece of information.
    General Terms & Conditions
    Your casino account
    1./ If no wagering activity takes place in either your casino or loyalty account for a period of 180 days, then the player understands that any balance in their account will be forfeited to the casino.

    What tha?

    Cheers
    T
     
  14. Dec 29, 2008
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This seems odd with casinoshare, since they allow withdrawal withy forfeiture of bonus, yet have the carry over of WR when players zero out.

    This problem seems particularly bad when you bust out and then get a free chip. The free chip is held to the TOTAL WR, that of the chip itself, and any unfinished WR from a prior bonus.

    MGS cannot claim this is not a known issue, it has been moaned about for quite some while, and fed back to MGS through various sets of casino CS and promotions departments.

    Are we to belileve in fact, that when support RESOLVES an issue as a "one off", but tells us "this has been forwarded to MGS for...." that this is all a big lie, and that NOTHING is EVER "forwarded to MGS" while something that works in favour of the casino can be resolved locally, but that can more often go unnoticed by the player.

    In this case, it is likely this has happened to Trezz on EVERY SINGLE free chip awarded straight after a busted out bonus, and could well have happened on some DEPOSIT offers too.
    I have deposited with a ZERO balance, and noticed that some of the new deposit becomes BONUS, usually only a small amount, and not worth the fight with CS (we're talking 10 to 30 showing as bonus on a deposit of several hundred).

    Oddly enough, sometimes NOT "zeroing out" has the effect that "zeroing out" SHOULD have. I have deposited with small BONUS balances still showing, between 0.01 and 5, and these have "become cash", in effect, WR zeroed out. If bonuses are added instantly, it is near impossible to catch this moment as a screenshot, however where bonuses have to be claimed, or are not even offered or desired, it is easy to check for this.
     
  16. Dec 29, 2008
  17. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    Roughly the same thing happened to me whilst playing at All Jackpots. No use contacting support since they never seem to uinderstand. David brickman helped me solve this. So, in this instance, maybe you should contact Mario.
     
  18. Dec 29, 2008
  19. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    I think this is what you're looking for.

    Sounds stupid, but there it is. Which means you should cash out any real money as soon as it has been earned, although you might need to read the T&C's further - a cashout could also cause you to forfeit any remaining bonus funds.
     
  20. Dec 29, 2008
  21. LOOKAWAY

    LOOKAWAY Senior Wember PABnonaccred

    Location:
    England
    Yeah this new bonus system sucks! it only comes into play when you get two no deposit bonuses in a row, if you get cash back also it will count as a no deposit bonus.

    Only thing you can do is deposit inbertween bonuses like a good ole player. :rolleyes:
     
  22. Dec 29, 2008
  23. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    I finally received a $100(30x WR) chrissy bonus on the 27'th. I spat the dummy because $100 comp is pathetic. So someone must have dropped another $100 into the account yesterday.

    So I have this clear in my head, can I surmise that this also affects loyalty comps, competition chips and anything that involves a scenario where two comps have been added to the account when no deposit has been made?

    If so then I've been royally fckued over many times.
     
  24. Dec 29, 2008
  25. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't an MG casino sh#t listed for a similar practice a few years ago.

    I recall a bonus issue where a player would deposit get a bonus. But if that player did not meet the WR then the WR would carry over to all action until the WR was met...

    To me this sounds very similar.

    Why in hell carry anything over. I mean if you bust out then you bust out. Everything should be zeroed out.

    Or is this the casinos sneaky way of recouping their 25% or whatever commission they pay to MG on all cash deposits (this also includes bonus money).


    Cheers

    T
     
  26. Dec 29, 2008
  27. LOOKAWAY

    LOOKAWAY Senior Wember PABnonaccred

    Location:
    England
    Hi Trezz, from my experiences comp points dont carry over the wagering off a previous free chip.

    But i have won two tourny free chips in a row at royal vegas and the wagering carried over. And i made no deposit inbertween these tourn wins.

    Here is a example off my play at canbet last week, where the roll over carrys over.

    I played at canbet the other week where more than one free chip in a row carries over the wagering, my last play was off a free chip which i lost and did not complete the wagering.

    Then i won a tourny prize off $150 and $5 was bonus and the wagering didnt carry over. Then i made a deposit lost that claimed my 20% cashback and again the wagering didnt carry over plus on top off the cashback i won 5th place in one off there season off free spin tourns and got 75 free spins at 25 lines and four coins, won another $55 which added to my 20% cash back and there was no extra wagering added, then i zero out and claimed a $1 in comps and the previous not done wagering did not stick.
     
  28. Dec 29, 2008
  29. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Hi LOOKAWAY,

    Thanks for the example.

    To me it's about fairness. And because of this view I don't see why a WR should be carried over in any circumstance if the player has zeroed out.

    I don't begrudge casinos placing a WR on bonus money.

    But on the same token, regardless of how many free or consecutive comps a player may receive, if the player ends up with $0 then the WR zeros out also.

    To force a compounded WR onto a player who has zeroed out a previous bonus, is not just unfair, but lends its hand to being manipulated by the casino to benefit the casino.

    To me it's another win win example for the casino, whilst again the player gets screwed.

    Maybe this is some type of safe guard to help combat the drive by bonus hunters. If this is the case then the mechanics need attention so it does not affect regular players.

    Cheers
    T
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Dec 29, 2008
  31. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Just thought I'd add that I've been in contact with the casino concerned and am now awaiting a phone call to sort this out.

    I'll keep you all updated.

    Cheers
    T
     
  32. Dec 29, 2008
  33. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Ok just received the phone call.

    My play for the night has been scrutinised. The $100 error has been located. Meaning that it should have gone to cash balance and not the bonus as it did.

    Have been told that a incident report is going to be submitted to MG later today and that a full audit of the account from 2006 to current is going to be conducted.

    Any errors (like the $100 above) - I can't recall the exact wording used, but I took it to mean I'll be taken care of.


    Cheers
    T
     
  34. Dec 30, 2008
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    yeah right:rolleyes:

    Funnily enough, this is what ALWAYS happens when a player REALLY digs their heels in. HOWEVER, there have been MANY "incident reports" kicked back to MGS over the months and YEARS this error has been in place, and yet the error is STILL with us.

    YOU are being taken care of because you NOTICED, and worse still, made one almighty fuss, and had plenty of proof.

    They may well audit YOUR account back to 2006, and they may well, find this has happened frequently, and calculating the correct compensation will be a mathematical nightmare. This is one of those bugs that usually pinches pennies, so I expect MGS have labelled it as "fix on a case by case basis where player makes a fuss", and have NOTHING scheduled in the way of a software upgrade to fix the problem permanently.
    In "penny pinching" mode, the bug sometimes goes in the PLAYER'S favour, when they leave a small balance behind and deposit again, and get the WR zeroed out anyway. It is only when a series of free chips hit the account, with the player playing and zeroing them out as they come, that this bug compounds the WR to a significant carry over.

    Early on, I played an EZBonus casino that offered a cashback, but the prior week offered a large bonus. I deposited and played during the cashback, but had not zeroed out from the previous week's bonus. I lost & claimed the cashback - making sure I ZEROED OUT my remaining pennies before doing so. It was a modest sum. I then went around 500 ahead, but when I checked it seemed the ENTIRE 500 had become bonus money, and that somehow it was "impossible" to reach a point where I was winning "real cash". I should have made a fuss, but I played on, curious to see if I could EVER meet WR and see some real cash. In the end, I went back to a point near my original cashback, and tried a few big bets on some of the better slots to see if I could hit again. I didn't, so zeroed out the cashback.
    I steered clear for a couple of weeks, but deposited again when offered another bonus, and THIS time, the WR DID zero out:confused:

    My conclusion is that this bug only persists for a few days, and that if no deposits are made for a while after zeroing out on a free chip, the problem will not ocurr. This may be related to the length of time that detailed Playcheck reports are available through the lobby, before they are dumped to archive.

    The oddity here is that the EZBonus system works differently based on what went on before (Playcheck history), so it is little wonder MGS have a hard time convincing players that what happened before does NOT affect what happens next. Clearly it does here, and there seems no logical reason for it either - simply, EZBonus should not NEED to know anything about the previous gameplay, ALL it should have is a counter, where each bet, as it happens, is weighted and deducted from the remaining WR. EZBonus ONLY needs to track this number, and should throw it away once the total balance reaches zero, and start afresh with the next bonus or free chip. Maybe EZBonus is doing MORE than it "says on the tin", MORE that is than simply tracking weighted wagers and running a counter down to zero.

    RTG recently became "infected" with the same "bug", but here it is more obvious, as the counter stays up with the remaining WR from your previous bonus. If you deposit though, it is withdrawable, the ONLY thing the RTG form of the "bug" does is prevent the claiming of coupons until the counter disappears. RTG "introduced something" early in the year that created this bug, before it simply never happened, a zero balance ALWAYS reset the counter, no ifs no buts. The RTG form DOES prevent a form of "advantage play" where there are "unlimited" coupons, it means that attempts to deposit small & often, but bet BIG - even on slots, will run aground as the bug will require the player to constantly ask CS to "fix the counter", thus bringing attention to how often they have made small deposits, but large wagers.
     
  36. Dec 30, 2008
  37. EasyRhino

    EasyRhino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Analyst
    Location:
    San Diego
    Interesting trezz, I thought i had seen different behavior at different groups. Casinorewards and Casinoshare seem to follow what you're seeing (money gets stuck in bonus balance forever), while with jackpot factory, I had never noticed the problem. But it was coincidentally deposit/bonus history.

    Good that CS was able to rectify it at least. If I had a $100 bonus, I would have previously just made a minimum cash deposit before playing, and then the bonus system would act "normally". I guess griping at CS is cheaper. :)
     
  38. Dec 30, 2008
  39. AussieDave

    AussieDave Dodgy whacko backstabber

    Occupation:
    Gaming SEO Specialist & Casino Webmaster
    Location:
    Australia
    Very easy to say that you'd do this or that when you claim to have hindsight at your advantage.

    Although I'd noticed this glitch before, I didn't realise its full impact until the $124 was misappropriated to the bonus account, instead of my cash account.

    I don't see drawing CS's attention to any software glitch as griping.

    Used as a verb (griping) in your context comes across (to me anyway) as a back handed derogative put down - I guess I could be wrong :rolleyes:

    Cheers
    T
     
    1 person likes this.

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