Meeting with Microgaming: what do players want?

[Casinomeister]

I'll be meeting with Microgaming at the Isle of Man in the next couple of days, and if you have any constructive suggestions or comments you'd like me to share with them, please post them here and I'll bring them to the table.

 

[uungy]

Would be interesting to know if they have they taken any steps recently to prevent casinos disappearing into the big black hole.

I think Microgaming should have give a new casino the choice of either being licensed by a reputable licnese such as the UK licensing or Kahnawake (who seem to be pulling their act together of the late) and Alderney, failing that, they ought to have a "reserve" with Microgaming, the funds wont be used for arbitration, but only in the event they go belly up.

 

[De Beuker]

Thats great!

The biggest problem I have with MG are the softwarechanges that made the older games almost unplayable when beeing on anything less than a quadcore with a dedicaded 512MB or more videocard.

All other software runs just fine on my PC, the new Marvell games from Playtech run superfast and smooth, and these are also graphic intensive.

I know there are many, many complaints, as even now there are still MG casinos refusing the updates (like Fortune Lounge and Casino Rewards), so I really wonder if anything is done about this.

Microgaming used to be the fastest and smoothest playing software, now they are by far the worst playing software.
I've upgraded my pc, from a single core Celeron (on which MG ran just fine until November last year) to a dualcore, but its still crap.

I really hope they are going to do something about it, so that I can enjoy games like Stash of the Titans, Little Chief, BDBA, and Jolly Jester the way I used to do.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Tengil]

What uungy said.

Plus any comments why they directed skins (at least RedNines) to TUSK/MPP when "everyone" should have seen that it was slowly being drained out of money. How much rake did they get from the TUSK poker players over the years?

And why they had no problems allowing Linx Group opening a casino (Linx casino) when the whole group was close to bust. How much rake did they get from the Eurolinx poker players over the years? (BetOnBet was "too fresh" in the Linx stable)

Apparently they do zero due diligence on tho whom they license their software. Is that going to change? E: so that we dont see any new multimillion fiasco in the future.

 

[gloria460]

What if anything they are going to do about the Amercan players. How is it still possible to play in a MCG casino but be denied excess to new games and progressives? It doesn't make any sense..what if an American player hit a big sum on one of the slots?... they would find a way to pay him so either deny all American players or let us have everything.

 

[denamoutz]

YA!!!! allow US players

 

[maphesto]

I'll be meeting with Microgaming at the Isle of Man in the next couple of days, and if you have any constructive suggestions or comments ...

A few small things. Not extremely important but just a bit annoying when almost everything is 10/10 when it comes to amusement factors. I have read a lot here and there the past months, some of the comments are my own..

Players from U.S.? Grand Prive? Not ok! I don´t mean moaning about new games and those things. Affiliates have to be paid!

Paytables at slots, the paytables sometimes say things that is not true if you read the more detailed one. One example is Alaskan Fishing where the paytable clearly says: ALL wins are doubled during free spins when bonus game wins are not doubled.

Casino software: I can see the advantages with the new software, but it still runs slow on most computers. It doesn´t look as nice as the old one either. I can guess that there is a better one coming but I prefer the old one so far. The new one looks blurry compared to the old.

Casino tournaments: Many players find it odd that you can play same tournament several times just because you can log in to a different casino and play again. Players compare this with two users at a poker table.

 

[Roanan]

My question should be an obvious one:

Why does Microgaming continue to allow people to use multiple accounts/skins to register for the SAME TOURNAMENTS, thus cheating the legitimate players out of a fair shot at winning?

 

[vinylweatherman]

What about the old games that were taken down. In JANUARY I was told by an operator that there was a problem with these games and the new lobby tabbed gaming feature, in that if one (or more) of these 8 games was being played in a tabbed environment, the overall balance was not tracked correctly. I was told this would be fixed in "about 2 weeks", and the games would return.

These games are STILL present in EVERY casino using the old lobby, but have NOT returned to the rest. This is more like 2 MONTHS, rather than 2 weeks. It seems par for the course, the other issues with the new lobby ONLY working well on "supercomputers" has been around just as long, yet there is STILL no sign of a corrective patch, despite there having been 2 further monthly updates.

This week, I noticed that the 8 games have returned at Grand Mondial, AND on the new tabbed lobby. Presumably the balance tracking issues were recently fixed, so WHY ARE WE WAITING for this to be rolled out across the board?

Ultimately, many of these issues are down to the complete lack of information coming out of MGS about the software, and upgrades. The technical troubleshooting advice is YEARS out of date, and refers to the early Viper software, and even the earlier Thumper lobbies. Nearly all of the information is useless. There is NO WAY that Viper works on the so called min PC specifications quoted, even machines at the top end more than 2 years old have considerable problems.

Players attempting to upgrade their kit, or purchase new kit, have no idea what is needed. Some are going quad core, some are increasing RAM, and others are going for better video cards. MGS are saying NOTHING about which of these will be worthwhile, and which are just a waste of money.

Going quad core is probably one of the "waste of money" upgrades, since unless Viper is coded with multiple core support, it will make little or no difference. A better video card may be the best way, but how big? There is no guidance as to how much graphics memory the Viper client needs to run the full 5 tab experience - the obvious upgrade would be to a card that has all the required memory "on board", rather than have the software using the paging file, or system RAM, to support the graphics. In turn, this may mean that a poor video card causes so much RAM and paging file space to be grabbed by the software, that the PC as a whole slows right down.

The vast majority of players will be using "off the shelf" PCs, and only a few will have the high end gaming machines that already have the best of everything. The players with these high end machines are probably the ones saying "problems, what problems, the new lobby works fine for me".

MGS tournaments - when these were new, they played much, much, faster than now - currently, they are far too slow to be entertaining. Too much time is spent waiting for the result. When I play, I expect to be able to hit the "spin" button as fast as I can, and for the game to keep up with me. This DOES happen in the normal lobby versions of the games, but no longer in the tournament versions. The struggle to keep pace with MY spin rate often has the tournament server disconnecting me for short periods of a few seconds, btu sometimes it's a full disconnect, with a boot from the game, and inability to reconnect. The roll out of more servers ahead of the "Grand Slam" has made ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE to performance. It seems MGS simply added to the load through other changes, most notably now allowing one entry per casino, rather than per person, which has more than taken up the extra capacity from the new servers.

I hardly play the MGS tournaments now, but I once played them regularly, and PAID for many of them too!

 

[Mavin1]

Pretty much been said here. Hate the querky, jerky slow crawling spins. Hate the long load and refresh between every game, I can go make lunch waiting on some games to load. Hate hearing the fan in my computer kicking on everytime I play.

 

[Simmo!]

Ask them if they would be prepared to put something in place that gave the casinos the option to display the theoretical returns on slot games.

Also, see if you can find out if they can vary them from casino to casino and if so, how the process for changing the RTP is dealt with

 

[rockycatt]

how about a real time statement of how many players are playing real
money currently

 

[Roanan]

Instead of just asking them why they allow cheating in their tournaments, how about asking them to allow an audit of their tournaments.

Not just to indicate all the players who are cheating, but for the players to be told the truth about the RTP of the tournys.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Pretty much been said here. Hate the querky, jerky slow crawling spins. Hate the long load and refresh between every game, I can go make lunch waiting on some games to load. Hate hearing the fan in my computer kicking on everytime I play.

I have noticed this too, and it is the games that are particularly slow that cause my fan to REALLY rev up like my tower is preparing for take-off. When I exit the game, the fan immediately reacts by slowing down to it's normal speed. Enter the game again, and sure enough, it revs for take-off again. This ONLY happens with the new lobby, and these games ONLY play very slow ON the new lobby (well, the ones MGS didn't REMOVE that is, I can't test the other 8).

I fail to see how merely making the lobby window bigger had such a MONUMENTAL and negative impact on the ability of my PC (which was top of the non-gaming range) to run it.

 

[SlotMonster]

I would like to know their opinion about implemeting Randomness Control on MG games (at least for Slots).

 

[Jasminebed]

I am far less happy with the MG casinos that have implemented the new lobby. The fruities which include skill stops do not always stop. It would be nice if they offered us unsatisfied players a roll-back version. I would sacrifice the new games in order to have my favourites back playing well.

 

[dominique]

re. Grand Prive: I have located a record of my actual stats on an old computer but haven't had a chance yet to hook it up long enough to pull all the data. It will show without a doubt that the figures given to eCOGRA were selective and legacy players were excluded.

Grand Prive owes me at least 10 times what they propose to pay.

I also have located the previous aff managers who should be able to give information about the missing data.

Sorry I don't have all this ready yet, too much has been going on (such as ddos attacks and the resulting introduction of additional security).

 

[incrediblestuff]

micro issues

Hi all,
to me it also would be very interesting to have microgaming elaborate on the whole tourney aspect,
I havent read anything about it on the forum yet, will search for it after this post, but i base this purely on my own experience, and have posted this in other less respected forums i visit.
Either microgaming themselves, or the exploitees of the software, are cheating, benefiting specific players, or players are cheating, or have a system where they maybe share the prizepool, and something with comps to even it out.
I feel these are the only options possible, cause i am certain that the majority of online gamblers, and more specifically tourney players, cant be as idiotic as too invest so much in a tourney, they couldnt possibly win anything even with first place...
Therefore, i suggest microgaming themselves, or the exploitees should asap change the format of the tourneys.
Naturally i expect that they will also keep these rebuy tourneys alive, as it must be a great income source.
But on the other hand, to take away any doubt, that exploitees or microgaming themselves condone cheating, or do it themselves, they are almost obligated to increase the platform with 0 rebuy tourneys, and if continues must be implemented, make them free of any cost.
(tourney entry $0, continues 50, continue cost $0)
i know it can be done, as recently, when i was complaining @ support and my vip manager in GOwildcasino, they stated that they where aware of the fact, and are going to, or are even now introducing "skill" tourneys in this manner.
I did see one or two come by, but i think microgaming has to enforce a fair, and overwhelmingly bigger platform then the current one, with these kind of rules.
This would bring back trust, fun and fairness into their operation.
I love them, but this is a major issue to me, an i also agree on the previous posts.
cheers
D.S

 

[vinylweatherman]

I am far less happy with the MG casinos that have implemented the new lobby. The fruities which include skill stops do not always stop. It would be nice if they offered us unsatisfied players a roll-back version. I would sacrifice the new games in order to have my favourites back playing well.

I have seen this too, the game often fails to respond to the mouse clicks. I have seen this when I click on spin sometimes. It's NOT a matter of it being slow, IT JUST DOES NOT RESPOND TO THE ACTION. There is better response to the space bar though, which also controls spin & skill stop. Again, the slowness causes a delay in the response, so a far greater number of skill stops are missed. Playing these games is like communicating commands to a lunar rover, you have to anticipate, and give the command BEFORE the action unfolds, just like scientists controlling a lunar rover have to allow for the time delay caused by the finite speed of light.

The effects were illustrated with devastating consequences by an accident I once saw a documentary about. Someone was controlling some kind of test rig through radio control, but inadvertantly, the link went via a satellite, so there was a short delay between issuing a corrective command, and the rig responding. The result of this delay was that the tester lost control of the rig, and corrective actions only made this worse, because the tester was expecting them to work in real time, thinking the radio link was direct as it should have been. The rig crashed, killing the tester. This effect has been reproduced in experiments where human testers are asked to control something, but unknown to them, a delay is added between their command, and the action being taken. It shows that even the simplest machines are completely uncontrollable in this environment. When this happens with a mere video game, it's the same problem, although the consequences are frustration, rather than potential injury, damage, or death.

 

[AussieDave]

Hi CM (all),

Not so much a question but a statement.

The sluggish performance that peeps are reporting seems to be a software glitch more so that system issue (rig lacking guts).

Firstly the games are no 3D they are 2D and use flash (yes the download version uses flash for it bonus slots...ect).

Meaning a graphics card with 128ram, on a P4 2.8 and a couple of gig ram should power these games. But it doesn't, I tested it on a stand by rig here with a old Nvidia Geoforce 6200 and the thing sh#t itself.

I have a high end gaming rig and when all 5 game tabs are open and playing, I initially have to minimise the software and then maximise it, only then do the game spin at million miles an hour.

I also have found that unless I follow this routine when first start playing Isis or Brank da Bank Again, it's as if the reels are in slow mode and man they are really jerky.

The fact that minimising the software the maximising fixes the jerky reels, points to it being a software compatibility issue, crap coding or both.

Really though, with the system I have (it's a beast) I shouldn't have to do this procedure to play 2D casino games.

So I can sympathise with players who are not running high end gaming rigs.

Edit: I purchased the new game Metro 2033 (insanely system intensive, am running that on ulta high (eye candy) everything. My rig handles this like a walk in the park. So it's obviously the new MGS software that's the issue and not people's rigs.


Cheers



Dave

 

[incrediblestuff]

Hi CM (all),

Not so much a question but a statement.

The sluggish performance that peeps are reporting seems to be a software glitch more so that system issue (rig lacking guts).

Firstly the games are no 3D they are 2D and use flash (yes the download version uses flash for it bonus slots...ect).

Meaning a graphics card with 128ram, on a P4 2.8 and a couple of gig ram should power these games. But it doesn't, I tested it on a stand by rig here with a old Nvidia Geoforce 6200 and the thing sh#t itself.

I have a high end gaming rig and when all 5 game tabs are open and playing, I initially have to minimise the software and then maximise it, only then do the game spin at million miles an hour.

I also have found that unless I follow this routine when first start playing Isis or Brank da Bank Again, it's as if the reels are in slow mode and man they are really jerky.

The fact that minimising the software the maximising fixes the jerky reels, points to it being a software compatibility issue, crap coding or both.

Really though, with the system I have (it's a beast) I shouldn't have to do this procedure to play 2D casino games.

So I can sympathise with players who are not running high end gaming rigs.

Edit: I purchased the new game Metro 2033 (insanely system intensive, am running that on ulta high (eye candy) everything. My rig handles this like a walk in the park. So it's obviously the new MGS software that's the issue and not people's rigs.


Cheers



Dave

on that note, i also have a nice gaming rig, not the latest, but i would feel that also a 9800GTx+ supported by three gigsram and 3.5ghz dual core, would have no issue with simple flash, however, microgaming proved me different, this sometimes gives me the feeling that microgaming software is doing lots of other things then just being my slotmachine...

 

[vinylweatherman]

on that note, i also have a nice gaming rig, not the latest, but i would feel that also a 9800GTx+ supported by three gigsram and 3.5ghz dual core, would have no issue with simple flash, however, microgaming proved me different, this sometimes gives me the feeling that microgaming software is doing lots of other things then just being my slotmachine...

This has me thinking... We have been here before with MGS, and a much earlier lobby. A coding error lead to a process getting stuck in an infinite loop. It was the "mupdate" process, which checks for updates, and installs them. It should only happen ONCE, and ONLY when something has been changed, and needs to be installed. When it went wrong, it found the updates, installed them, but DIDN'T PROPERLY RECORD IT, so the process repeated itself, reinstalling the exact same updates again and again and again and again......... you get the picture
This happened during play, so the games were really slow and jerky ALL THE TIME. Players did know that the montly update would cause a TEMPORARY slowing in performance, and many got into the habit of launching & leaving their casinos to take the updates, and only playing when they were done.

Maybe there is some process present only in the new lobby that is also running in the background as an "infinite loop", and sucking large amounts of system resources such that the effects are noticeable, even on high spec systems. The AWP games seem particularly seriously affected by this, the others less so.

When using tabbed gaming, the games running in the tabs slow right down to about one third normal speed (this is using the same autoplay settings). Oddly enough, the one game left in full screen plays MUCH faster than the ones running in the tabs. Switching between games requires minimisation & maximisation of the lobby, otherwise the speed halves.

I have also found that the lobby freezes, and can ONLY be shut down using the task manager, the window itself is blocked, and there is an error beep, and no response, when attempting to click on ANYTHING. It appears to me that this is down to the lobby opening an "invisible message window", which CANNOT be accessed, therefore the message window CANNOT be closed, which means NOTHING ELSE other than task manager can close down the casino.

Today, I had another. A minimised casino lobby refused to maximise, and I couldn't even close it using right click on the minimised task bar tab. It was yet another job for the task manager.

This is evidence of "crap coding", and where there is some, there is probably more. The "crap coding" explanation for the new lobby problems, and the tournament problems is the more credible, yet operators and MGS STILL insist it is all down to the player's kit, and seem uninterested in pursuing a proper investigation. Even those operators that DO press forward with an investigation find they get stonewalled by MGS - they send their findings to MGS, and they are buried there.

 

[incrediblestuff]

incredible from a software provider that makes so much money, to not want to invest proper, or maybe they put everything on protection of code/antihax etc, with the price we in the end pay as players, of deadly slow software with high resource demand..
also possible
seems like Meister has lots of talking to do

 

[De Beuker]

The minimize/maximize trick works here also, after changing games this has to be done, otherwise the new game is totally unplayable.

One thing I noticed is that the longer I keep the screen minimised, the faster the game will play.
But after 50-100 spins, depends on the game a bit, it slows down again.
It also slows down after a freespinround, but not half as bad as after switching games though.
So I always min/max the screen after a freespinround too.

But the troubles started with the November update last year, THATS the one that slowed down the games and made them look sluggish.
Things got even worse with the new lobby in Januar, because the older games got transferred to a higher resolution, but I'm 100% sure the MAIN error is in the November 2009 update!!

 

[vinylweatherman]

incredible from a software provider that makes so much money, to not want to invest proper, or maybe they put everything on protection of code/antihax etc, with the price we in the end pay as players, of deadly slow software with high resource demand..
also possible
seems like Meister has lots of talking to do

Given that all results are generated on the server, and the client is merely there to display them, and send player instructions back to the server, there is little to hack client side that would be of serious consequence. As the Jackpots Heaven case shows, there is NO protection against theft of client content, and MGS actually make this EASY, because images are simply stored as bitmaps, rather than encrypted data. Jackpots Heaven copied several symbols, as well as MGS games, and after a few superficial changes, claimed them to be the product of their own 8 years of development.

The minimize/maximize trick works here also, after changing games this has to be done, otherwise the new game is totally unplayable.

One thing I noticed is that the longer I keep the screen minimised, the faster the game will play.
But after 50-100 spins, depends on the game a bit, it slows down again.
It also slows down after a freespinround, but not half as bad as after switching games though.
So I always min/max the screen after a freespinround too.

But the troubles started with the November update last year, THATS the one that slowed down the games and made them look sluggish.
Things got even worse with the new lobby in Januar, because the older games got transferred to a higher resolution, but I'm 100% sure the MAIN error is in the November 2009 update!!

Maybe the November update introduced the bug, but few noticed. When the new lobby was introduced, it magnified the effects of the bug to the extent that almost everybody noticed a downgrade in performance.

To determine what went wrong, someone would have to have access to the source code, and understand it. They would also need to know exactly what changes were made in November, as well as those made for the new lobby, and understand how these interact with the average home PC, and other software likely to be running on home PCs. This is CLEARLY a job for the programmers at MGS, yet they are simply passing the buck to operators, and down to players, saying it is all a result of problems with their PC, and/or setup.

This is bollocks, and since some casinos still run on the old lobby, I can compare between them, and it's CLEARLY the case that it is the change to the new lobby that has caused the problems, and NOT something that happened to my PC last Autumn.