Bogus Complaint Markus VS Club Gold Casino

[Markus]

Hello,
on 1st November 2011 I did make a deposit of 25 Euro at Club Gold Casino and received a 150% bonus of 37.50 Euro. Then I have played Video Poker (2 Ways Royal) and several Slots until the wagering requirement was met. Then I have requested a withdrawal of 507 Euro.
On 7th November 2011 Club Gold Casino wrote me this email:

Dear Markus,

Thank you for choosing Club Gold Casino.

Upon reviewing your withdrawal request, we have found that you have initially accumulated your balance in games that are excluded from the wagering requirements of the bonus offer. Specifically, you had wagered on excluded games such as, 2 Ways Royal. This is strictly against our terms and conditions.

Club Gold Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player's original deposit from a player's withdrawal in the event that any part of the respective play bonus is wagered on any of the games which do not count towards wagering requirements.

You can find these terms in the following link:

xhttp://www.clubgoldcasino.com/club-g...rms-conditions

Therefore we regret to inform you that we cannot proceed to the withdrawal processing stage. Your withdrawal request has been cancelled due to the above mentioned breach.

Markus, as a valued customer we have decided to return your NETeller deposit of €25.00 plus the bonus amount of €37.50 you had received and allow you to continue playing. I would strongly suggest to avoid playing any games that do not count towards the wagering requirements of the bonus.

Should you require further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us using one of the methods listed below:

Telephone : +1 866 765 3712 ( call charges apply for this number )
Email : support@clubgoldcasino.com
Chat : Open a chat session from the Casino software lobby

Kind regards,

Chrys
Club Gold Casino
Turn Fun into Gold!

On the same day I have responded with this email:

Hello,

2 Ways Royal (or Video Poker in general) is not excluded from the
wagering requirements of the bonus offer. This is the part from your
terms that states what games are excluded from the wagering
requirements:

"Bets places on all versions of Baccarat, Roulette, Sic Bo, Darts, Heads
or Tails, Blackjack (including Blackjack Switch and Blackjack
Surrender), Pontoon, Craps and all fixed odds games will not count
towards wagering requirements."

Because I have not breached the bonus terms I ask you to pay my winnings
of 507 Euro! Thank you.


Regards,
Markus L.

I didn't get any answer from Club Gold Casino.

Then I have contacted the casino rep (CarmelCGC) here on Casinomeister and explained the situation. I got this answer from CarmelCGC:

Hi Markus

The casino has informed me that in this particular case, you received the bonus, played on the Video Poker, which is one of the games excluded from bonus wagering requirements, and only after having built a bankroll through this game did you switch to playing the slots. This is regarded as bonus abuse, as per Terms and Conditions "Club Gold Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player’s original deposit from a player’s withdrawal in the event that any part of the respective play bonus is wagered on any of the games which do not count towards wagering requirements" which is why your original deposit and also in this case your bonus, were returned to your account, so that you could wager them on qualifying games.

Regards

Carmel

I have responded with this message:

Hello,

in the Terms and Conditions I don't find the term that says that Video Poker is one of the games excluded from bonus wagering requirements. Can you please quote this term? Thank you.


Regards,
Markus L.

This message I have sent on Monday and I have still not got any answer!

A very disappointing behavior from Club Gold Casino. I have clearly not breached the bonus terms, but they still confiscate my winnings. I wish I could PAB, but unfortunately I already did a PAB against another casino lately and Club Gold Casino is not accredited.

 

[chayton]

hmmm...well usually you're not allowed to play VP with a sign up bonus but it should be listed that way on their terms page, but you're right, it isn't.

 

[Nifty29]

Markus is 100% correct.

Carmel, I'm really surprised that you did not take the time to read your own terms and conditions, as nowhere do they state that video poker is excluded.

It is also irrelevant that he built his bankroll on VP and then played slots as both games are allowed and there was no "bonus abuse".

Perhaps CGC meant to exclude VP, but they didn't, so its time to do the right thing and pay the player.

(Of course if the OP played some other excluded games then this doesn't apply)

 

[chuchu59]

A very unprofessional reply from Carmel. 'The casino says this, the casino says that'. Its as if he/she didnt look into the matter and simply relayed the casino's stance which is already well known to Markus. If the ts and cs did not list vp as an excluded game then the solution is simple. Pay up! Take it as a lesson to remember drafting the terms more carefully in future.

 

[ksb11]

If I was the manager of the casino I would just be glad the person didn't win $50000. I say pay up and if it bothers the casino so bad then change the terms and conditions.

 

[chayton]

If I was the manager of the casino I would just be glad the person didn't win $50000. I say pay up and if it bothers the casino so bad then change the terms and conditions.

Impossible anyhow - buried in the

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is this:

4.16. A welcome bonus is only valid in respect of Your initial deposit into Your Player Account. The maximum amount of winnings which may be paid by the Casino in relation to any welcome bonus shall not exceed the lower of EUR 5,000 or ten times the amount of Your initial deposit.

So if you deposit $50 and get the SUB and win a jackpot and meet wagering, you're still limited to a $500 cashout.....? So if that's the case then Markus can only withdraw $250 Euros....?

 

[jod5413]

I think the wording of the bonus terms are poorly written, but isn't VP a "fixed odds game"? The terms state "and all fixed odds games will not count towards wagering requirements."

 

[chuchu59]

While it could be argued that vp is a fixed-odds game since 2 pair pay 2x, 3oak pays 3x etc. the same could apply to slots since a payline pays exactly what the paytable states. The only variables are random jackpots and progrssives as well as winnings from features at slots. Since they mention different games ie BJ,Baccarat etc. as excluded games they only have themselves to blame for not listing vp. As mentioned earlier, they should count themselves lucky we are talking about a cashout that is relatvely small. The casino should take it as a lesson earned and immediately amend the terms in case someone wins big in future.

 

[Markus]

My understanding of "fixed odds" is that the won amount of a single bet has always the same relation to the stake of the bet. For example, Roulette is a fixed odds game, because if you bet $1 on a single number and the number wins, you always win $36. As opposed to this, Video Poker and Slots are not fixed odds games because a bet of $1 can result in different sized wins.

 

[jod5413]

OK, Chuchu and Markus, both sound right. But, I still am not sure what "fixed odds games" means.

Anyone?????

 

[chuchu59]

Oh Jod just leave out the word 'odds' and you have the answer.

 

[jod5413]

That is funny, Chu! But, I am serious in wanting to know the answer. I am just a simple slots player so really do not know!

 

[Nifty29]

That is funny, Chu! But, I am serious in wanting to know the answer. I am just a simple slots player so really do not know!

I always thought it referred to those silly heads or tails or darts games etc that only Playtech have.....but ill happily stand corrected.

Perhaps the casino could shed some light?

 

[chuchu59]

That is funny, Chu! But, I am serious in wanting to know the answer. I am just a simple slots player so really do not know!

Actually the explanation from Markus should be the correct one. Ibet on fixed-odds in respect of horses and football matches where I get a fixed payout if my selection wins. If the value of the payout varies depending on the outcome then its not fixed-odds. In this instance vp cannot be a fixed-odds game as you could get anywhere between a pair to a royal flush.

I also did not seem to notice the casino using this as an argument to deny the winnings unless I missed something.

 

[jod5413]

No, they didn't say that, I was just curious after reading their non-allowed games. I'll be really curious to see if they pay Markus (they should!). Thanks, Chuchu!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Actually the explanation from Markus should be the correct one. Ibet on fixed-odds in respect of horses and football matches where I get a fixed payout if my selection wins. If the value of the payout varies depending on the outcome then its not fixed-odds. In this instance vp cannot be a fixed-odds game as you could get anywhere between a pair to a royal flush.

I also did not seem to notice the casino using this as an argument to deny the winnings unless I missed something.

They argued that he played an excluded game, but there was no mention of 2 way royal in their list, not even in general terms.

In this case, the casino don't have a case, other than a "spirit of the bonus" argument because they "meant to include" 2 way royal, and players should have known that the "spirit" of the bonus excluded such games. This is not a good argument to stick to as it can have the effect of moving a casino to the rogue pit.

It would have been better to have the bonus as "slots only", rather than listing only half the games they intended to exclude.

 

[bsilva028]

club gold bonus

Bets places on all versions of Baccarat, Roulette, Sic Bo, Darts, Heads or Tails, Blackjack (including Blackjack Switch and Blackjack Surrender), Pontoon, Craps and all fixed odds games will not count towards wagering requirements.


The terms and conditions appearing above should be read in conjunction with the Terms and Conditions of Play at Club Gold Casino, which shall apply over and above the present terms and conditions. In the event of any conflict between the present terms and conditions and the Terms and Conditions of Play at Club Gold Casino, the latter shall prevail.
reading this i think that you can never cashout more than 10x the deposite in any bonus you get
ex: deposite $25, 100% bonus max cashout =250

correct me if i am understanding wrong?

 

[GI Joe]

Any news about the payment...how did all end?

 

[Markus]

Any news about the payment...how did all end?

No news about the payment. They still did not paid me.

 

[The Dude]

Just a quick follow up on this (since there seems to be an open ending). The player was in clear breach of the bonus terms, and was later found to be defrauding casinos here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/markus-vs-tradacasino-viaden-gaming.48111/