London riots: Dozens injured after Tottenham violence.

[BingoT]

London riots
Sad Sad Sad what is this World coming too.


London riots: Dozens injured after Tottenham violence.


Clasford Stirling, a resident of Tottenham for 32 years, said the area looked like a battlefield

More than 40 people have been arrested after rioting saw police attacked and buildings and vehicles set alight in Tottenham, north London.

Overnight, 26 officers and three others were hurt in the violence which erupted after a protest over the fatal shooting by police of Mark Duggan on Thursday.

Shops, cash machines and homes were looted.

Tottenham MP David Lammy said: "A community that was already hurting has had its heart ripped out."

The Metropolitan Police said two officers were still in hospital and three members of the public had been injured. More than 40 people remain in custody.

Police said there were still "pockets of criminality" in the area on Sunday morning.

London Fire Brigade said crews were dampening down the scene of some fires.

A spokesman said all the fires were under control "at the moment".

On Sunday morning, police were manning a cordon around the scene of the violence, while residents surveyed the damage to their community.

Mr Lammy said: "There are people homeless and we don't know if there are fatalities in the houses.

"This is an attack on Tottenham, on people shopkeepers, woman, children, now standing homeless."

"I'm concerned that what was a peaceful process turned into this," he added.

"And that it seemed to go on for many hours before we saw the kind of policing that I think is appropriate.

"And I think small skirmishes initially should have been stopped far quicker."
BBC News

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[KasinoKing]

Now 3 days of mindless violence in our capital - and it's even spread to Birmingham too.
Terrible to see, but society is to blame.

KK

 

[Cleveland]

I always get so pissed after reading these kinds of incidents. Glad to see all officers walked away from the hospital ok.

 

[rainmaker]

London Riots

.


Guys are stealing from injured boy:

 

[The Dude]

Absolutely astounding. It's like there are no police at all. At least in the States the National Guard would be called in to mop these a-holes off the streets. I remember the LA riots - shop owners protected their stores with Smith & Wesson and AK 47s. I guess you don't have that in the UK.

 

[ksech]

I hope if any members here have loved ones in that area, that they are safe! What saddness that people have to be this way towards one another

 

[rainmaker]

Yes Meister, it is really astounding. Makes me angry. It is now reported that one person is killed.




This is a summary (how it started etc...) from a Norwegian newspaper. I used Google translate, so probably a bit messy in English


* On Thursday, Mark Duggan (29) killed in what should have been a shootout with police.

* After family and friends of Duggan held a peaceful marking outside the local police station, came late Saturday night to the riots that lasted through the night. Several buildings were set on fire.

* The unrest spread in the course of Monday from the northern suburbs until Brixton in the south. At Oxford Circus, right in town, did a bunch of older vandalism Monday night.

* Youth Gangs raided on Monday night in town Hackney in the east of Clapham in the south of Camden in the north and in Ealing in West London.

* Also in Liverpool, Birmingham and Bristol went Tuesday youths attacked shops and cars.

* At the request of police, several football matches have been postponed.

* According to police, over 330 people arrested in London and 100 in Birmingham.

* Prime Minister David Cameron interrupted Monday holiday and returned to London to deal with unrest.

 

[The Dude]

What's really messed up is that these punks usually ransack their own neighborhoods. Odd thing to happen especially in a country that has more webcams than anywhere else. All these guys end up in police video files and on Youtube.

 

[pinkfloyd]

hope the guys stealing from the injured kid fall down a huge drain scumbags



and heres one tough lady

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[BingoT]

More about the London riots

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[The Dude]

More about the London riots

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Threads merged

 

[rainmaker]

Threads merged

Thanks. Did not see this thread.

Sorry BingoT

 

[jetset]

From what I have seen across the internet and on television, most ordinary, decent people are outraged by this criminal behaviour.

I expect we will be seeing a series of prosecutions before too long as the police identify and bring those responsible to book; as the Brit PM said today "If you're old enough to break the law, you're old enough to face the consequences."

Unfortunately, some of these looters, arsonists, robbers and destroyers of private property are likely to be underage, precluding the publication of their identities....but it will have a harmful impact on their futures, and hopefully their parents will be both furious and embarrassed.

With an extra 16 000 police on duty tonight it will be interesting to see whether this criminal conduct continues.

I wonder whether those involved are smart enough to realise that they are buggering up not only their own communities, but the hard-earned livlihoods of innocent men and women who now face lost business as well as property damage.

It played hell with the stock market too, although that seems to be regaining lost ground at present.

The punishment meted out to these thugs needs to be severe as a deterrent, and a reminder that you can't just run amok and steal everything in sight.

 

[Mousey]

This just breaks my heart ....

I'm sorry, but these 'protestors' would be shot on sight if they threatened my home or family or business. They are harming and destroying the livelihood of the very people who are already hurting the most.

My deepest sympathy to those affected by these hoodlums. I do hope things calm down soon!

 

[The Dude]

Rioting scumbag strike yet again in Manchester

CALL IN THE MARINES!!

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[rainmaker]

CALL IN THE MARINES!!

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Oh my F God...what an Ahole

People can certainly be killed when throwing trash cans around like that

 

[chayton]

It sickens me to see that kind of crap. We've had a few instances of rioting here - after the

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and after the

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Nothing as widespread and long-lasting as what's been going on in the UK, but the same sort of mob mentality - if anyone tries to stand up and do what's right, or to stop anyone from wrecking stuff they get hurt. What pissed me off is that these idiots call themselves 'anarchists' and the media picked up on it. They're not anarchists, they're just bloody vandals and thieves, they're not doing it for any other reason than that they've had a skinful and they want to steal stuff and make a mess.

And normal decent people volunteer to clean up the mess these yobs leave behind.

 

[Nifty29]

1. Immediate declaration of martial law.

2. Mandatory 5 year imprisonment for all rioters with no bail permitted.

3. Rioters who refuse to disperse after three warnings can be fired upon.

The UK Government has to nip this in the bud or every delinquent with a chip on their shoulder will think they start a riot every time they don't approve of something.

 

[jod5413]

1. Immediate declaration of martial law.

That sounds like a good idea. However, getting everyone on board with that locally is easier said than done. And, the "bad guys" don't respect anything whether under martial law or not. Only the "good people" go home when they are asked.

2. Mandatory 5 year imprisonment for all rioters with no bail permitted.

Nice thought but what country could afford to support those "protesters" for their five year term? The TV footage alone showed hundreds and perhaps thousands rioting at different cities and areas.

3. Rioters who refuse to disperse after three warnings can be fired upon.

This is my favorite. I am and old country girl, shooting seems fair to me under those circumstances. However, the majority (bleeding heart-type) would be screaming "foul" if we did start shooting these idiots.

The UK Government has to nip this in the bud or every delinquent with a chip on their shoulder will think they start a riot every time they don't approve of something.

Your ideas are really great, Nifty, but I just don't see them as do-able in today's world.

 

[jetset]

I believe that the first prosecutions have been completed, with six week jail sentences handed down. Although it will give the little buggers a bad record, it's really not much of a punishment, given the namby-pamby prison environment these days and time off for good behaviour.

The establishment really needs to come up with something more creative and relevant. What does this sort of person dislike most - perhaps discipline, cleanliness and hard exercise? Condemn these thugs into the tender care of hardened drill sergeants in a secluded camp (yes, I know that smacks of Communist 'reorientation' but this would have nothing political in mind) Put them through a military boot camp style regime for three months and maybe hire out their manual labour to surrounding companies - the proceeds to go to their victims.

Ah, the doubtful pleasures of very early morning PT, lots of yelling and chasing and plain food, along with a few basic sessions on the concept of ownership and the morality of non-violence, LOL!

On a more serious note, the UK television is already showing some very good shots that will help teams of investigators to find these criminals, and they're appealing for any material citizens may have filmed of the rioters at work - there's going to be a price these creeps will have to pay...I hope it is substantial.

 

[slotplayer]

Absolutely astounding. It's like there are no police at all. At least in the States the National Guard would be called in to mop these a-holes off the streets. I remember the LA riots - shop owners protected their stores with Smith & Wesson and AK 47s. I guess you don't have that in the UK.

They set fire to that family owned 5th generation furniture store. I didn't catch the name but the report said it was a pretty famous store.

 

[jetset]

Tragic story in the news yesterday that three guys trying to protect their property were run down and killed by an (out of control?) car. I did n't get all the detail, but it is always a tragedy when lives are so cruelly taken.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I believe that the first prosecutions have been completed, with six week jail sentences handed down. Although it will give the little buggers a bad record, it's really not much of a punishment, given the namby-pamby prison environment these days and time off for good behaviour.

The establishment really needs to come up with something more creative and relevant. What does this sort of person dislike most - perhaps discipline, cleanliness and hard exercise? Condemn these thugs into the tender care of hardened drill sergeants in a secluded camp (yes, I know that smacks of Communist 'reorientation' but this would have nothing political in mind) Put them through a military boot camp style regime for three months and maybe hire out their manual labour to surrounding companies - the proceeds to go to their victims.

Ah, the doubtful pleasures of very early morning PT, lots of yelling and chasing and plain food, along with a few basic sessions on the concept of ownership and the morality of non-violence, LOL!

On a more serious note, the UK television is already showing some very good shots that will help teams of investigators to find these criminals, and they're appealing for any material citizens may have filmed of the rioters at work - there's going to be a price these creeps will have to pay...I hope it is substantial.

This was tried a while ago under the previous administration before "New Labour" got in back in 1997. It was called "boot camp", and these "young thugs" were sent to them for a "short, sharp shock" of military style drill and discipline. Some critics said this only made them fitter and "harder", so when they came out they were simply better at the kind of thuggery they liked. Others said it was "unduly harsh".

The problem is that whatever punishment they get never makes them suffer as much as their victims did.

The nearest we seem to have come is the discredited "community service" alternative. It seems to have failed because there is not enough in place to supply enough work for them to do in their unpaid hours, and there are cases where they turn up to "do their time" only to find nothing has been set up for them to do, and they simply while away their alloted hours hanging around with their "mates" who are serving similar sentences. This is more a vacation than a punishment.

It seems that the police were unable to deal with the situation once a certain number got involved, and thus shops were looted whilst the police stood aside. This just meant that those involved used their smartphones to tell like minded thugs that there was a "free for all" down at the retail park, and thus even more people turned up who didn't even know what the original protest was about. All that interested them was the opportunity to loot a carload of the latest gadgets and "bling" and get them back home as quickly as possible.

Whilst many will be identified, most seasoned "thugs" know how to defeat CCTV in such systems, making it impossible for any amount of CCTV footage being used to identify them. The vast majority of the looters will get away with it, and most of the property will never be seen again by the original owner. The insurance companies will pick up the bill for this, and pass it on to everybody else over the next couple of years through increased premiums.

Ideally, they should be made to clean up the mess they made, but the length of time it will take to find, charge, and proscecute them will make this an impractical solution as it would mean the mess being left where it is for weeks, if not months.

Most will not care about "future prospects being affected" because they can't think that far ahead. Many probably feel that their future will be the same as the present, so don't see why they shouldn't take a chance for short term gain at the expense of something they feel is worthless to them.

Most though, will regret this in years to come as they see life chances appear, only to have them disappear once their past record comes to light.

 

[Nifty29]

I watched a series called "Bad Lads Army" a few years ago and thought it was a great idea, and the results for most of these delinquents were quite amazing....and that was with the constraints of a television program. I would imagine it would be even better with real army regulations and discipline and real consequences.

Why they do not offer this as an alternative to prison for young offenders I do not know.

This was tried a while ago under the previous administration before "New Labour" got in back in 1997. It was called "boot camp", and these "young thugs" were sent to them for a "short, sharp shock" of military style drill and discipline. Some critics said this only made them fitter and "harder", so when they came out they were simply better at the kind of thuggery they liked. Others said it was "unduly harsh".

The problem is that whatever punishment they get never makes them suffer as much as their victims did.

The nearest we seem to have come is the discredited "community service" alternative. It seems to have failed because there is not enough in place to supply enough work for them to do in their unpaid hours, and there are cases where they turn up to "do their time" only to find nothing has been set up for them to do, and they simply while away their alloted hours hanging around with their "mates" who are serving similar sentences. This is more a vacation than a punishment.

It seems that the police were unable to deal with the situation once a certain number got involved, and thus shops were looted whilst the police stood aside. This just meant that those involved used their smartphones to tell like minded thugs that there was a "free for all" down at the retail park, and thus even more people turned up who didn't even know what the original protest was about. All that interested them was the opportunity to loot a carload of the latest gadgets and "bling" and get them back home as quickly as possible.

Whilst many will be identified, most seasoned "thugs" know how to defeat CCTV in such systems, making it impossible for any amount of CCTV footage being used to identify them. The vast majority of the looters will get away with it, and most of the property will never be seen again by the original owner. The insurance companies will pick up the bill for this, and pass it on to everybody else over the next couple of years through increased premiums.

Ideally, they should be made to clean up the mess they made, but the length of time it will take to find, charge, and proscecute them will make this an impractical solution as it would mean the mess being left where it is for weeks, if not months.

Most will not care about "future prospects being affected" because they can't think that far ahead. Many probably feel that their future will be the same as the present, so don't see why they shouldn't take a chance for short term gain at the expense of something they feel is worthless to them.

Most though, will regret this in years to come as they see life chances appear, only to have them disappear once their past record comes to light.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I watched a series called "Bad Lads Army" a few years ago and thought it was a great idea, and the results for most of these delinquents were quite amazing....and that was with the constraints of a television program. I would imagine it would be even better with real army regulations and discipline and real consequences.

Why they do not offer this as an alternative to prison for young offenders I do not know.

The government are afraid of falling foul of the "human rights" laws, which have been used far beyond their original intent to protect basic rights to exist freely in society and go about one's LAWFUL business without undue interference and harrassment from "the system".
Clever lawyers have abused loopholes in the act to extend these rights beyond those enjoyed by many ordinary people, and no doubt the act would be used to kill off any attempt to reintroduce "boot camp" as an alternative to prison. The same act is responsible for making prison so "soft" as a deterrent. For some, this has made prison a BETTER way of life than being free, and so crimes are committed just so they can get back inside to enjoy free board and lodging, TV, Gym, etc without having to work to pay for it.

 

[Nifty29]

The government are afraid of falling foul of the "human rights" laws, which have been used far beyond their original intent to protect basic rights to exist freely in society and go about one's LAWFUL business without undue interference and harrassment from "the system".
Clever lawyers have abused loopholes in the act to extend these rights beyond those enjoyed by many ordinary people, and no doubt the act would be used to kill off any attempt to reintroduce "boot camp" as an alternative to prison. The same act is responsible for making prison so "soft" as a deterrent. For some, this has made prison a BETTER way of life than being free, and so crimes are committed just so they can get back inside to enjoy free board and lodging, TV, Gym, etc without having to work to pay for it.

...not to mention the free sex

I agree with you completely.

 

[jod5413]

I think the biggest mistake ever made in the USA was when they ended the draft. Now wait, don't jump on me yet, Kids!

Every year high schools spit out graduates that have no idea of what they want to be "when they grow up". Yes, some have careers they want to enter so have college plans. Many of these 18 and 19 year old kids have absolutely no idea what they are going to do. It is called lack of maturity and it is not a defect, simply an aspect of growing up. If they are from well to do families, the parents will send them to college to let them figure it out what they want to be when they grow up(hopefully). The less fortunate have to try and get scholarships, grants or loans to go to college. A foolish choice if there is no passion for a career path. The only other options are "grunt" jobs, like Walmart and Kmart clerks, or Burger flippers at McDonalds, Wendys or Burger King.

When the USA had the draft, it was normal for guys graduating high school to go directly into service of some sort. Two years minimum. By the time they came out, most of them were grown up and ready to settle down and pursue their career and life. The high school ROTC students were more likely to end up as part time, long term soldiers (our national guard). A very good goal and opportunity for their future.

Now that it is not mandatory, too many kids come out of high school with no goals, no ideas of how to support themselves like "grown ups". It has not made a better society, IMO.

Yes, I know. No one wants to send their kids to war, myself included. But, it was definitely a plus for the kids that did do their two years. They"matured". And please do not start chewing me up one side and down the other. I am aware that war can scar you, if not kill you. I also know that military service made people better in many ways (think of your parents or grand parents).

Anyone in doubt, just read up on the changes from Vietnam to now. More offenders in every group coming out of high school. More problems with gangs and "nuisance" offenders. More babies born when the parents are still kids themselves. More young people on assistance or in jail.

Anyway, just my two cents. This will teach me to get up so early in the morning! Back to bed now!

 

[Nate]

Being a former Cop, I had several instances where crowd control necessitated taking out a Shot Gun with rubber bullets and dispersing the thugs. We did not hesitate to use Tear Gas and FORCE in order to restore order....

I was hoping to see that in the UK.... seems the Thugs were left to continue their rampage instead.

Nate

 

[ksech]

Parents need to get their rights back. None of this child abuse BS for disciplining your child. There is nothing wrong with a firm smack on the butt when a child misbehaves, it most definitely gets their attention. What does a time out do for them? Not a darn thing. I'm not saying you need to beat the kid black and blue, and I'm not an advocate of screaming at them either (verbal abuse is just as bad, if not worse than physical abuse).

Most people who are 40 and over are "normal" and look at the trials we went through as children. My father kept a wooden paddle labeled the "board of education" for when we were bad (he swore it saved hs hand ). They put all types of ointments on our various "battle" wounds (heaven forbid you do that to your child now!), they forced you to eat all the food on your plate before you left the table and they made you wear some of the most hideous clothes/shoe/boots alive ( remember rubbers? red for girls and black for boys? or the boots that went on over your shoes that had the metal buckles on them?). Did we survive all this unscythed? For the most part, a resounding YES!

We didn't have trashy movies, violent video games, violent ear shattering undecipherable music (although our parents THOUGHT we did ). We had to go outside and play from dawn to dusk and use our imaginations. We had to read a book, go for a walk or talk on a landline phone which might have been a party line phone. We had black and white tv with 3 tv channels. We'd hurry home from school to watch the Mickey Mouse Club with Annette and Cubby, then watch Dark Shadows,( I was a little older when that was on, I think we had a color tv by then too).

Families actually communicated more, IMO, and they were interested in what was going on in each others lives. There wasn't any tv watching while eating or ear buds stuck in the ears with music playing tuning everyone out. Mom cooked, going out for fast food was a treat.

Kids were taught to be respectful of others and to themselves. Yes, there were drug problems back then, but not like now. Those drugs are still around, but there are even scarier drugs out there our children are tempted with every day. As a society, I think we have failed our children because we have given up our rights to discipline, teach respect, and overall to teach integrity and moral ethics to our children.

The way society is now, we are teaching our children it's okay to NOT take responsibility for your actions, it's okay to blame everything on anyone but yourself. It's okay you don't want to work, the government will provide for you, just go get knocked up or commit a crime. The sad part is, some of these kids just don't understand that death is forever, you can't change it like in the movies or one of their video games...

 

[The Dude]

This guy feels pretty much how I feel:

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