Last chance to say no to Obama Care now

[felicie]

Check out Ron Paul's health care plan

October 24, 2009

Dear Patriot:

Campaign for Liberty believes it is time to reform the way health care is delivered in America. Years of ruinous government intervention, excessive regulation, and corporatism have damaged the patient-doctor relationship and driven up consumer costs.

The solution to our health care dilemma will not come from some grand scheme concocted by the same people who ran our economy into the ground and who continue to accumulate trillions of dollars in debt.

It will come from choosing freedom by ending government meddling in health care, protecting patient privacy, returning more of our hard-earned tax dollars to us, and ensuring the federal government does not block any information about alternative treatments.

Congressman Ron Paul, an OB-GYN who has delivered more than 4,000 babies, has introduced several pieces of legislation in Congress to bring true change to health care and to protect the American people from further government intrusion.

H.R. 2629, the Coercion is Not Health Care Act, stops government from taking even more of our money and railroading us into its health care scheme by preventing any individual or agency in the federal government from requiring anyone to purchase health insurance. H.R. 2629 also prohibits conditioning the receipt of any government benefit or participation in any government program on the purchase or maintenance of health insurance.

H.R. 1495, the Comprehensive Health Care Reform Act of 2009, allows all Americans to pay their health care bills through the method that suits them best by providing all Americans with a tax credit for 100% of health care expenses (fully refundable against both income and payroll taxes), allowing individuals to roll over unused amounts in cafeteria plans and Flexible Savings Accounts (FSA), providing a tax credit for premiums for a high-deductible insurance policy connected with a Health Savings Account (HSA) and allowing seniors to use funds in an HSA to pay for a medigap policy, as well as making all medical expenses tax deductible by repealing the 7.5% threshold for the deduction of medical expenses.

H.R. 1498, the Freedom from Unnecessary Litigation Act of 2009, addresses rising medical malpractice costs by providing a tax credit for negative outcomes insurance purchased prior to medical treatment and by preventing medical malpractice awards obtained through binding arbitration from being taxed.

As Dr. Paul said in his speech introducing H.R. 1498, Relying on negative outcomes insurance instead of litigation will also reduce the costs imposed on physicians, other health care providers, and hospitals by malpractice litigation.

H.R. 2630, the Protect Patients and Physicians Privacy Act, allows patients and physicians to opt-out of any government-mandated or -funded system of electronic health care records and repeals the federal law creating an unique patient identifier. It also denies the use of federal funds to advance the use of standard unique health identifiers in any federal, state, or private health care plan.

H.R. 3394, the Freedom of Health Speech Act, requires the FTC to actually prove health care claims are false before preventing those claims from being made, and H.R. 3395, the Health Freedom Act, ends the FDAs attempts to censure truthful health claims.

These are just a few of steps Congressman Paul has taken in Congress to address the health care crisis.

Click here to get contact information for your representatives and urge them to support Dr. Pauls health care reform legislation.

 

[johnsteed]

***


Ron Paul is the only politician on the face of the Earth, that makes me care about politics; and leads me to believe that he's got the people's best interest in mind. I wish the world was loaded with Ron Pauls! :notworthy



Steed


***

 

[felicie]

NewsMax Opt Out of ObamaCare

Your Tools to Help
Opt Out of Government-Run and Government-Mandated Healthcare
President Obama and the Congress are racing toward government-run and government-mandated healthcare. If they succeed, YOU no longer will be able to keep your insurance, choose your own doctors or control your own health and well being. You will be forced into a government-mandated healthcare system run by bureaucrats.

You will be forced to pay for the government-mandated healthcare before you pay your mortgage, put food on your table for your family and put gas in your car. You will have few or no options to shop for what is best for you and your family's health needs. Doctors will be chosen for you. Doctors will become virtual bureaucrats like employees at the DMV and IRS.

Your healthcare will be rationed. Rationing means if you are too sick, too old, too frail, too over-weight, too high risk and so forth -- YOU MAY BE DEEMED BY BUREAUCRATS TO BE UNTREATABLE.

Thanks but, no thanks. OPT ME OUT!

"I, the undersigned citizen of the United States, demand that the U.S. Congress keep the government out of my healthcare decisions. Furthermore, if government-mandated healthcare should be enacted in any form by Congress and signed into law by President Obama, I insist that I be excluded from any government-run or mandated healthcare program and exempt from any and all taxes, fees and mandates imposed to pay for it."

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[LaurieJim]

NewsMax Opt Out of ObamaCare

Your Tools to Help
Opt Out of Government-Run and Government-Mandated Healthcare
President Obama and the Congress are racing toward government-run and government-mandated healthcare. If they succeed, YOU no longer will be able to keep your insurance, choose your own doctors or control your own health and well being. You will be forced into a government-mandated healthcare system run by bureaucrats.

You will be forced to pay for the government-mandated healthcare before you pay your mortgage, put food on your table for your family and put gas in your car. You will have few or no options to shop for what is best for you and your family's health needs. Doctors will be chosen for you. Doctors will become virtual bureaucrats like employees at the DMV and IRS.

Your healthcare will be rationed. Rationing means if you are too sick, too old, too frail, too over-weight, too high risk and so forth -- YOU MAY BE DEEMED BY BUREAUCRATS TO BE UNTREATABLE.

Thanks but, no thanks. OPT ME OUT!

"I, the undersigned citizen of the United States, demand that the U.S. Congress keep the government out of my healthcare decisions. Furthermore, if government-mandated healthcare should be enacted in any form by Congress and signed into law by President Obama, I insist that I be excluded from any government-run or mandated healthcare program and exempt from any and all taxes, fees and mandates imposed to pay for it."

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I signed and opted out thanks Felicie............laurie

 

[felicie]

More Ron Paul

Dear Friend of Liberty,

We have all worked so hard to make an Audit of the Federal Reserve a reality. Together, we have led the fight to get congressional hearings, 308 cosponsors, and unprecedented attention around the country.

Now, you and I face our biggest challenge yet. And Ron Paul needs your help!

Mel Watt (D-NC), Chairman of the Monetary Policy Subcommittee, has sided with banking interests and is working to gut substantial audit provisions from H.R. 1207. The bill Congressman Watt has sent to the full Financial Services Committee contains no audit of the Feds monetary policy-making authority or transparency of the Feds secret agreements with foreign central banks.

Without these provisions, a so-called audit of the Fed would be worthless.

The full Financial Services Committee is likely to vote on this bill either later this week or early next.

Congressman Paul will offer an amendment to restore the provisions contained in H.R. 1207 to audit monetary policy and activity with foreign central banks. Thirteen of the 41 Democrats and all 29 Republicans on the Committee have cosponsored H.R. 1207, and if they hold the line, we will have the votes to win and restore our audit.

Dr. Paul has shot a YouTube video for Campaign for Liberty explaining the situation in more detail. Click here to watch the video.

Pressure on the Democrat House Financial Services Committee members is critical! Below is a list of Democrats who have cosponsored. Please call them and urge them to vote Yes on the Paul Amendment. Click on their names to get their web contact information.

1. Rep. John Adler, NJ (202) 225-4765

2. Rep. Travis Childers, MS (202) 225-4306

3. Rep. Steve Driehaus, OH (202) 225-2216

4. Rep. Alan Grayson, FL (202) 225-2176

5. Rep. Rubn Hinojosa, TX (202) 225-2531

6. Rep. Suzanne Kosmas, FL Toll Free: 1-877-956-7627

7. Rep. Dan Maffei, NY (202) 225-3701

8. Rep. Brad Miller, NC (202) 225-3032

9. Rep. Walt Minnick, ID (202) 225-6611

10. Rep. Ed Perlmutter, CO (202)-225-2645

11. Rep. David Scott, GA (202) 225-2939

12. Rep. Brad Sherman, CA (202) 225-5911

13. Rep. Jackie Speier, CA (202) 225-3531

When contacting these members, remember that up to this point, these members have been allies on this issue. A civil yet firm tone should be kept during these calls. They should be thanked for their cosponsorship, told that Mel Watts changes to the bill are unacceptable, and urged to hold the line and honor their promise to support transparency at the Fed by voting Yes for the Paul amendment.

It is also important that we contact Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and urge them to schedule a standalone, up or down vote on the real Audit the Fed bill.

Rep. Barney Frank: (202) 225-5931

Speaker Nancy Pelosi: (202) 225-0100

Now is a crucial time for Audit the Fed. If these 13 Democrats hold the line, Ron Paul and C4L can win this battle. But, they must vote Yes on the Paul amendment when the full committee votes.

Together, you and I can win this fight.

In Liberty,

John Tate
President

 

[skiny]

So you're saying that public healthcare in the U.S. will be completely different from public healthcare in every other country on the planet?

I'll never understand why Americans fear public healthcare. I've had public healthcare since the day I was born. If I am sick or injured I am treated. Anywhere in Canada. Any hospital. No questions asked. No bill. Nobody tells me which hospital to go to. Nobody tells me what doctor to see. (Unless I'm referred to a specialist by another doctor.)

I can understand why American insurance companies fear public healthcare. They stand to lose billions of dollars. I can understand why some politicians fear public healthcare. They stand to lose billions of dollars from insurance companies.

The healthcare system in Canada is handled on a provincial level and the Ontario Health Insurance Plan or OHIP has never told me anything. I go to the doctor or hospital of my choice, normally which ever is closest at the time. I'm treated and I go home. I don't even know how much it cost because nobody even tells me. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[GamTrak]

Excellent facts skiny!

Add that to the data of how many folks lives are ruined due to medical bills which results in bankruptcy it's not that hard to understand why the majority of Americans are in favor of it.

I would suggest that everyone get the true facts before making a decision to fight the cause that will help so many folks and not be so closed mind about everything that Obama does.

 

[skiny]

"If everybody stay in their lane there will be no accidents."

If you don't like the way I drive, stay off the sidewalk.

 

[clj7221]

 

[Rambler]

So you're saying that public healthcare in the U.S. will be completely different from public healthcare in every other country on the planet?

I'll never understand why Americans fear public healthcare. I've had public healthcare since the day I was born. If I am sick or injured I am treated. Anywhere in Canada. Any hospital. No questions asked. No bill. Nobody tells me which hospital to go to. Nobody tells me what doctor to see. (Unless I'm referred to a specialist by another doctor.)

I can understand why American insurance companies fear public healthcare. They stand to lose billions of dollars. I can understand why some politicians fear public healthcare. They stand to lose billions of dollars from insurance companies.

The healthcare system in Canada is handled on a provincial level and the Ontario Health Insurance Plan or OHIP has never told me anything. I go to the doctor or hospital of my choice, normally which ever is closest at the time. I'm treated and I go home. I don't even know how much it cost because nobody even tells me. I wouldn't have it any other way.

The reason the U.S. doesn't have National Health Care is that we spend 41 percent of total resources to miliary spending in the world. Europe accounts for 26 percent and China and India less than 13 percent, in line with their economic growth in recent years.

If the U.S. would just have let Hitler win and go back to George Washington's Presidential farewell address of 1787, saying to avoid "foreign entanglements", we would have National Health Care already like every other first world nation, except we would be first world and the rest of this sespool would be back in the stone age.

As an American, I find it very amusing the prospect of pulling U.S. troops out of Japan, South Korea, the Middle East to a much more defensive posture in line with President Washington's thinking, to see which next dictator emerges out of Europe or the Far East, like Hitler or Napolean, lmao.

The money the U.S. spends per year in Iran and Afghanistan would pay for enviable health care for all Americans.

I don't see Europe or Canada doing world policing; why should they; most assume Americans are stupid enough to keep paying for the whole stinking mess.

Post World War II, without the Marshall Plan, Japan and Europe would be third world countries. So God Bless the U.S.A.; and other countries pay your fair share of military spending or go back to your own history of infighting.

I hate paying for Health Care, because what I am doing is subsidizing Canada and Europe's citizens, who spend a fraction of what the U.S. spends on World policing.

Have a Nice Day!

 

[LaurieJim]

So you're saying that public healthcare in the U.S. will be completely different from public healthcare in every other country on the planet?

I'll never understand why Americans fear public healthcare. I've had public healthcare since the day I was born. If I am sick or injured I am treated. Anywhere in Canada. Any hospital. No questions asked. No bill. Nobody tells me which hospital to go to. Nobody tells me what doctor to see. (Unless I'm referred to a specialist by another doctor.)

I can understand why American insurance companies fear public healthcare. They stand to lose billions of dollars. I can understand why some politicians fear public healthcare. They stand to lose billions of dollars from insurance companies.

The healthcare system in Canada is handled on a provincial level and the Ontario Health Insurance Plan or OHIP has never told me anything. I go to the doctor or hospital of my choice, normally which ever is closest at the time. I'm treated and I go home. I don't even know how much it cost because nobody even tells me. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Sure yo wouldnt have it any other way, you have had the goverment taking care of you since birth................I believe in the U.S constitution and this clearly goes against it, without our Constitution we are no longer " The land of the free", The goverment has bigger problems to take care of, like.....JOBS!!!!!!!! ENDING 2 WARS AND GETTING US THE HELL OUT OF DEBT, NOT MORE INTO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bryand]

The reason the U.S. doesn't have National Health Care is that we spend 41 percent of total resources to miliary spending in the world. Europe accounts for 26 percent and China and India less than 13 percent, in line with their economic growth in recent years.

If the U.S. would just have let Hitler win and go back to George Washington's Presidential farewell address of 1787, saying to avoid "foreign entanglements", we would have National Health Care already like every other first world nation, except we would be first world and the rest of this sespool would be back in the stone age.

As an American, I find it very amusing the prospect of pulling U.S. troops out of Japan, South Korea, the Middle East to a much more defensive posture in line with President Washington's thinking, to see which next dictator emerges out of Europe or the Far East, like Hitler or Napolean, lmao.

The money the U.S. spends per year in Iran and Afghanistan would pay for enviable health care for all Americans.

I don't see Europe or Canada doing world policing; why should they; most assume Americans are stupid enough to keep paying for the whole stinking mess.

Post World War II, without the Marshall Plan, Japan and Europe would be third world countries. So God Bless the U.S.A.; and other countries pay your fair share of military spending or go back to your own history of infighting.

I hate paying for Health Care, because what I am doing is subsidizing Canada and Europe's citizens, who spend a fraction of what the U.S. spends on World policing.

Have a Nice Day!

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[bryand]

House passes Obamacare by 5 votes.

Reduced medicare benefits
Federal funding for abortion
Coverage for illegal immigrants
Taxes on employer-provided health insurance

God help us all.

 

[skiny]

The reason the U.S. doesn't have National Health Care is that we spend 41 percent of total resources to miliary spending in the world. Europe accounts for 26 percent and China and India less than 13 percent, in line with their economic growth in recent years.

If the U.S. would just have let Hitler win and go back to George Washington's Presidential farewell address of 1787, saying to avoid "foreign entanglements", we would have National Health Care already like every other first world nation, except we would be first world and the rest of this sespool would be back in the stone age.

As an American, I find it very amusing the prospect of pulling U.S. troops out of Japan, South Korea, the Middle East to a much more defensive posture in line with President Washington's thinking, to see which next dictator emerges out of Europe or the Far East, like Hitler or Napolean, lmao.

The money the U.S. spends per year in Iran and Afghanistan would pay for enviable health care for all Americans.

I don't see Europe or Canada doing world policing; why should they; most assume Americans are stupid enough to keep paying for the whole stinking mess.

Post World War II, without the Marshall Plan, Japan and Europe would be third world countries. So God Bless the U.S.A.; and other countries pay your fair share of military spending or go back to your own history of infighting.

I hate paying for Health Care, because what I am doing is subsidizing Canada and Europe's citizens, who spend a fraction of what the U.S. spends on World policing.

Have a Nice Day!

The reason the U.S doesn't have a public healthcare system is because insurance companies and politicians don't want one.

The U.S government spends more than enough money on unecessary crap to have built a public heatlhcare system decades ago. If they spent all their money looking for weapons that didn't exist or sending crap to mars that's a shame.

You're not the only country who has soldiers abroad at war and on peace keeping missions. You might be the only country who feels that it's more important than your own health.

Nobody should be denied medical treatment simply because they can't afford the insurance or can't be insured because their health isn't good enough or can't sell their house fast enough to get a transplant before they die. Make all the excuses you like.

The reality is that being denied healthcare is stone age.

 

[bryand]

The reason the U.S doesn't have a public healthcare system is because insurance companies and politicians don't want one.

The U.S government spends more than enough money on unecessary crap to have built a public heatlhcare system decades ago. If they spent all their money looking for weapons that didn't exist or sending crap to mars that's a shame.

You're not the only country who has soldiers abroad at war and on peace keeping missions. You might be the only country who feels that it's more important than your own health.

Nobody should be denied medical treatment simply because they can't afford the insurance or can't be insured because their health isn't good enough or can't sell their house fast enough to get a transplant before they die. Make all the excuses you like.

The reality is that being denied healthcare is stone age.

Its obvious you know very little about our healthcare system.

 

[Rambler]

The reason the U.S doesn't have a public health care system is because insurance companies and politicians don't want one.

The U.S government spends more than enough money on unnecessary crap to have built a public hardcore system decades ago. If they spent all their money looking for weapons that didn't exist or sending crap to mars that's a shame.

You're not the only country who has soldiers abroad at war and on peace keeping missions. You might be the only country who feels that it's more important than your own health.

Nobody should be denied medical treatment simply because they can't afford the insurance or can't be insured because their health isn't good enough or can't sell their house fast enough to get a transplant before they die. Make all the excuses you like.

The reality is that being denied health care is stone age.

If you had a head, I would tell you to take it out of where the sun don't shine. Nevertheless, for those of you liking to do it doggie style to watch the Hockey game, ehhh..., it is acceptable. (Rodney Dangerfield!)

We spend more capita on Health Care than anyone.

Half of Canadians come here to Pay for good health care your government health system can't provide, like the Mayo Clinic, UCSF, etc., when it is dire or a terminal illness, because if you wait to long in your country, the Hearst shows up, not an ambulance.

We stupid Americans even treat illegal aliens from all planets due to Mother Theresa values, including Mexico.

I am sending you a link to what is called a "Think Tank".

I assume you can't absorb this now, so the next time you sit in your outhouse due to poor plumbing issues, if you get wi-fi, read this:

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Now come on down, the Price is not Right. You live free off us like leaches in heat. You don't even have a decent sub or aircraft carrier to defeat North Korea...why because you love to criticize Amercicans as a National past time and even worse, love your wallet at our expense. I would make a new treaty with Canada. You want our protection..Pay For it!!!! And See how quick you have to pay your own way!!! Or as politicians like to say, "Pay as you go." Run, boy, run...lol!

Listen, joy boy, I lived in the UK for a time and was on NHS and was initially impressed with quick doctors and dentist appointments, sometimes the same day.

It was convenient, until I saw my medical doctor was assigned to me with no choice of my own and could barely speak English as he was from a foreign country that the Brits get most of the docs from. I don't even want to go into the peculiarities of th NHS. My American Doc gives me all Diazapam (Valium) I need to tolerate racist attitudes towards Americans. He understands this too as he was a young doctor in Europe during the Korean War, kidding maybe?

To take a falacious moral high ground as you are attempting, is nearly as bad as being on the grassy knoll in 1963 and complicit with the after effect. Moreover, I found it worse when I chipped a tooth, they fixed it fast, but than advised I needed a teeth cleaning and then proceeded to pull out a dremel and started literally sanding the plaque off my teeth along with my teeth enamel; I had to have my front teeth fixed by a U.S. Dentist. Yes, Euro Care is good if you cut your finger or get a cavity, beyond that it is equivical to a witch doctor treating you from personal experience.

 

[felicie]

Excellent facts skiny!

Add that to the data of how many folks lives are ruined due to medical bills which results in bankruptcy it's not that hard to understand why the majority of Americans are in favor of it.

I would suggest that everyone get the true facts before making a decision to fight the cause that will help so many folks and not be so closed mind about everything that Obama does.

What's really too bad is that Obama chose to close HIS mind to over 2 million Americans standing on his front lawn in September, most of whom were holding signs saying HELL NO to his health plan. Those are the true facts.

 

[skiny]

If you had a head, I would tell you to take it out of where the sun don't shine. Nevertheless, for those of you liking to do it doggie style to watch the Hockey game, ehhh..., it is acceptable. (Rodney Dangerfield!)

We spend more capita on Health Care than anyone.

Half of Canadians come here to Pay for good health care your government health system can't provide, like the Mayo Clinic, UCSF, etc., when it is dire or a terminal illness, because if you wait to long in your country, the Hearst shows up, not an ambulance.

We stupid Americans even treat illegal aliens from all planets due to Mother Theresa values, including Mexico.

I am sending you a link to what is called a "Think Tank".

I assume you can't absorb this now, so the next time you sit in your outhouse due to poor plumbing issues, if you get wi-fi, read this:

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Now come on down, the Price is not Right. You live free off us like leaches in heat. You don't even have a decent sub or aircraft carrier to defeat North Korea...why because you love to criticize Amercicans as a National past time and even worse, love your wallet at our expense. I would make a new treaty with Canada. You want our protection..Pay For it!!!! And See how quick you have to pay your own way!!! Or as politicians like to say, "Pay as you go." Run, boy, run...lol!

Listen, joy boy, I lived in the UK for a time and was on NHS and was initially impressed with quick doctors and dentist appointments, sometimes the same day.

It was convenient, until I saw my medical doctor was assigned to me with no choice of my own and could barely speak English as he was from a foreign country that the Brits get most of the docs from. I don't even want to go into the peculiarities of th NHS. My American Doc gives me all Diazapam (Valium) I need to tolerate racist attitudes towards Americans. He understands this too as he was a young doctor in Europe during the Korean War, kidding maybe?

To take a falacious moral high ground as you are attempting, is nearly as bad as being on the grassy knoll in 1963 and complicit with the after effect. Moreover, I found it worse when I chipped a tooth, they fixed it fast, but than advised I needed a teeth cleaning and then proceeded to pull out a dremel and started literally sanding the plaque off my teeth along with my teeth enamel; I had to have my front teeth fixed by a U.S. Dentist. Yes, Euro Care is good if you cut your finger or get a cavity, beyond that it is equivical to a witch doctor treating you from personal experience.

Ok, well first of all rambling on like a bloody idiot on acid doesn't help your cause.

Second of all I don't live in the UK, I live in Canada and I choose my own doctors.

And third, Half of Canadians do not go anywhere for healthcare. I don't know where you got that little fact. I wonder if the little dream you had included the people coming over your nothern border trying to get into our clinics pretending to be Canadian and on public healthcare.

And fourth, You should be spending more on healthcare, you have 10 times our population.

And fifth, Mexico isn't on another planet. Contrary to what some Americans believe there are places on this planet outside of the U.S.

And sixth,

What's really too bad is that Obama chose to close HIS mind to over 2 million Americans standing on his front lawn in September, most of whom were holding signs saying HELL NO to his health plan. Those are the true facts.

Maybe Obama was concentrating on what the other 99.3% of the population wanted.

And seventh, I don't give a rat's ass if the U.S. ever gets public healthcare. We have it. And that is not because of anything your country did or didn't do. It's because Canada believes that healthcare shouldn't be denied to anyone. Regardless of your income or your health. Healthcare should be universal. If Americans feel it's ok to deny anyone treatment for any reason it's not really effecting the course of my happy day.

 

[The Dude]

Admin Note: mellow out

Just an admin note for people to keep it mellow. Thank you.

 

[heatherad]

I don't see Europe or Canada doing world policing; why should they; most assume Americans are stupid enough to keep paying for the whole stinking mess.
I hate paying for Health Care, because what I am doing is subsidizing Canada and Europe's citizens, who spend a fraction of what the U.S. spends on World policing.

Have a Nice Day!

Half of Canadians come here to Pay for good health care your government health system can't provide, like the Mayo Clinic, UCSF, etc., when it is dire or a terminal illness, because if you wait to long in your country, the Hearst shows up, not an ambulance.

It would be interesting to read where you have come up with all your FACTS about Canada and Canadians. So if you wouldn't mind, could you please give us the link or direct source so we can read it ourselves?
I notice you not only like to call Americans stupid and idiots, but you also seem to have a problem with other countries as well. Sour grapes? Maybe so. But don't blame other countries for what your country is doing. You definately have a right to not like how the U.S.A. is run or what your government is doing, and everyone has a right to an opinion but we all don't have to agree with it.
I'm assuming you have lived in Canada seeing as you think you know so much about health care and other issues to post on it? And I gather you are or are trying to be a historian or teacher seeing that you ramble on about speeches in History or take quotes from notable people. I feel like I back in school but this time I have a teacher who doesn't have all his facts straight.
I pay for good health care here and I pay pretty so don't sit on your perch and pour sour cream over the world.
Lastly, I'm surprised that you didn't get alittle time out for attacking other forum members when just recently a noted forum member got a cool down period for doing just the same thing.
You attacked a forum member in a previous thread and now you non-chalantly attack a forum member in this thread. Go figure

 

[LaurieJim]

It would be interesting to read where you have come up with all your FACTS about Canada and Canadians. So if you wouldn't mind, could you please give us the link or direct source so we can read it ourselves?
I notice you not only like to call Americans stupid and idiots, but you also seem to have a problem with other countries as well. Sour grapes? Maybe so. But don't blame other countries for what your country is doing. You definately have a right to not like how the U.S.A. is run or what your government is doing, and everyone has a right to an opinion but we all don't have to agree with it.
I'm assuming you have lived in Canada seeing as you think you know so much about health care and other issues to post on it? And I gather you are or are trying to be a historian or teacher seeing that you ramble on about speeches in History or take quotes from notable people. I feel like I back in school but this time I have a teacher who doesn't have all his facts straight.
I pay for good health care here and I pay pretty so don't sit on your perch and pour sour cream over the world.
Lastly, I'm surprised that you didn't get alittle time out for attacking other forum members when just recently a noted forum member got a cool down period for doing just the same thing.
You attacked a forum member in a previous thread and now you non-chalantly attack a forum member in this thread. Go figure

I think most Americans are afraid as we have never had the Goverment move in such a fast un known direction, I dont want public health care mandated to me, its not in our Constitution and i dare someone to show me where it says the U.S goverment can get away with this and its legal.

I have many Canadian friends, Heather included, whom i talk regulary with on the phone, i respect the way they believe on health care and im positive they respect my views on this issue also......................laurie

 

[heatherad]

I think most Americans are afraid as we have never had the Goverment move in such a fast un known direction, I dont want public health care mandated to me, its not in our Constitution and i dare someone to show me where it says the U.S goverment can get away with this and its legal.

I have many Canadian friends, Heather included, whom i talk regulary with on the phone, i respect the way they believe on health care and im positive they respect my views on this issue also......................laurie

Thats just it Laurie...I do respect how you and other Americans feel on Health Care and other issues. I have been following it on T.V. and my opinion is that the President should be listening to the people, ALL the people. I also believe in freedom of choice. If people don't want public health care mandated to them, then there should be something worked out where they would have that option.
I believe you pointed it out in another post where you stated you can let your voice be heard come election time Sad thing is, and I know it holds true over here as well....most times come election we vote the same characters back in and the whole mess starts all over again.

 

[LaurieJim]

Thats just it Laurie...I do respect how you and other Americans feel on Health Care and other issues. I have been following it on T.V. and my opinion is that the President should be listening to the people, ALL the people. I also believe in freedom of choice. If people don't want public health care mandated to them, then there should be something worked out where they would have that option.
I believe you pointed it out in another post where you stated you can let your voice be heard come election time Sad thing is, and I know it holds true over here as well....most times come election we vote the same characters back in and the whole mess starts all over again.

Agreed

 

[skiny]

Sorry Bryan. I get a little irritated when the over patriotic, unconditional flag waving, U.S.A runs the planeteers that make up about .1% of the American population show up and start telling the rest of the planet we should thank them for everything we've built.

Fact is, I like 99.9% of the Americans I've ever met. I respect their country. I know Americans personally too. Some of them I've talk to on the phone for years. I've even dated a couple of them.

Thing to keep in mind is not all public healthcare systems are the same. What works for us might not be what works for you. But regardless of how you do it nobody should ever have to worry about walking into a hospital or doctor's office because of the cost and nobody should be turned away.

Yes, it's expensive. It's getting a little too expensive for us but that's more bad management than anything else. Maybe if the Ontario government hadn't blown 6 billion dollars on something as simple as electronic record keeping and still haven't even started building it yet we'd have more money for medical equipment. (I wish someone would strip down Dalton McGuinty and set him adrift on a floating iceberg.) But I digress.

The problem with public healthcare is that it has to be paid for with our taxes. And if rich people opt out, poor people don't pay enough tax to cover the cost. That is a shame. Personally I make enough money to pay for my own insurance and haven't been to a doctor or hospital in 10 years. I haven't been treated for an injury in 15 years. I haven't taken a sick day from work in almost 5 years. Still, I've never complained about the amount of my tax dollars that goes toward our healthcare system. I only complain about the terrible way it's managed.

The haves have to look after the have nots. I know this is something your country believes in. I've seen it within your borders during disasters and the charities too numurous to count. And in the amount of money your country sends abroad to aid other countries. You're a good people. I just think it's time someone put their foot down and said "Ok, everyone gets treatment. And that's that."

 

[clj7221]

It would be interesting to read where you have come up with all your FACTS about Canada and Canadians. So if you wouldn't mind, could you please give us the link or direct source so we can read it ourselves?
I notice you not only like to call Americans stupid and idiots, but you also seem to have a problem with other countries as well. Sour grapes? Maybe so. But don't blame other countries for what your country is doing. You definately have a right to not like how the U.S.A. is run or what your government is doing, and everyone has a right to an opinion but we all don't have to agree with it.
I'm assuming you have lived in Canada seeing as you think you know so much about health care and other issues to post on it? And I gather you are or are trying to be a historian or teacher seeing that you ramble on about speeches in History or take quotes from notable people. I feel like I back in school but this time I have a teacher who doesn't have all his facts straight.
I pay for good health care here and I pay pretty so don't sit on your perch and pour sour cream over the world.
Lastly, I'm surprised that you didn't get alittle time out for attacking other forum members when just recently a noted forum member got a cool down period for doing just the same thing.
You attacked a forum member in a previous thread and now you non-chalantly attack a forum member in this thread. Go figure

That Rambler, how dare he! just coming on here for No good reason and attacking all these innocent pure members. I am definitely going to make sure he gets a " Time out " for this.

All kidding aside I was not to happy about the insults he gave either. Next time you see it, report the post, but adding to it, is putting fuel to the fire until it gets beyond insults.

Why Bryan has not given him a time out yet? I wondered myself.I have come to my conclusion that Bryan must also have a degree in English/Creative writing and finds humor between the lines in Ramblers posts. Or he is just being nice. However, he did put that warning message below so lets hope this stops now.

 

[clj7221]

Sorry Bryan. I get a little irritated when the over patriotic, unconditional flag waving, U.S.A runs the planeteers that make up about .1% of the American population show up and start telling the rest of the planet we should thank them for everything we've built.

Fact is, I like 99.9% of the Americans I've ever met. I respect their country. I know Americans personally too. Some of them I've talk to on the phone for years. I've even dated a couple of them.

Thing to keep in mind is not all public healthcare systems are the same. What works for us might not be what works for you. But regardless of how you do it nobody should ever have to worry about walking into a hospital or doctor's office because of the cost and nobody should be turned away.

Yes, it's expensive. It's getting a little too expensive for us but that's more bad management than anything else. Maybe if the Ontario government hadn't blown 6 billion dollars on something as simple as electronic record keeping and still haven't even started building it yet we'd have more money for medical equipment. (I wish someone would strip down Dalton McGuinty and set him adrift on a floating iceberg.) But I digress.

The problem with public healthcare is that it has to be paid for with our taxes. And if rich people opt out, poor people don't pay enough tax to cover the cost. That is a shame. Personally I make enough money to pay for my own insurance and haven't been to a doctor or hospital in 10 years. I haven't been treated for an injury in 15 years. I haven't taken a sick day from work in almost 5 years. Still, I've never complained about the amount of my tax dollars that goes toward our healthcare system. I only complain about the terrible way it's managed.

The haves have to look after the have nots. I know this is something your country believes in. I've seen it within your borders during disasters and the charities too numurous to count. And in the amount of money your country sends abroad to aid other countries. You're a good people. I just think it's time someone put their foot down and said "Ok, everyone gets treatment. And that's that."

No need to apologize. You did not come on here making insults at anyone. You were just replying to Ramblers post.I'm sure Bryan saw that and I doubt the warning message was for you.Why should it be.

 

[bryand]

The haves have to look after the have nots. I know this is something your country believes in. I've seen it within your borders during disasters and the charities too numurous to count. And in the amount of money your country sends abroad to aid other countries. You're a good people. I just think it's time someone put their foot down and said "Ok, everyone gets treatment. And that's that."

I think I understand the disconnect in this thread. Most Americans would love to see health care for all. This is a no brainer. But most of us understand that Obamacare will likely drive our economy down further and water down what is now the best health care system in the world. At present the US spends roughly the same amount on national defense as it does on health care (about 20% each). We already spend more than 8% on debt service. Another $1 trillion dollars (the conservative estimate over 10 years) is not fiscally feasible.

 

[skiny]

I think I understand the disconnect in this thread. Most Americans would love to see health care for all. This is a no brainer. But most of us understand that Obamacare will likely drive our economy down further and water down what is now the best health care system in the world. At present the US spends roughly the same amount on national defense as it does on health care (about 20% each). We already spend more than 8% on debt service. Another $1 trillion dollars (the conservative estimate over 10 years) is not fiscally feasible.

Now this I understand. Money is the issue. This could be the worst time in US history to try to create a univeral public healthcare system with the economy the way it is. And the swine flu cropping up in the middle of it didn't really help matters. An economic crisis and a pandemic at the same time. Yay!

I don't claim to know all that much about the US economy or the current healthcare system. How much would it cost for the average American middle aged waitress at a little diner making minimum wage to be covered for any health problems or injury that might crop up?

On another note, the difference between insurance and public heathcare is that public healthcare doesn't cover lost wages. So even with public healthcare and no insurance you still get to sit at home getting healthy and going bankrupt. The company I work for pays for my insurance but it basically just covers my lost wages and gives me a little bonus if I lose a finger or something.

 

[skiny]

No need to apologize. You did not come on here making insults at anyone. You were just replying to Ramblers post.I'm sure Bryan saw that and I doubt the warning message was for you.Why should it be.

I've learned that I don't have to actually insult people to get under their skin.

 

[bryand]

Now this I understand. Money is the issue. This could be the worst time in US history to try to create a univeral public healthcare system with the economy the way it is. And the swine flu cropping up in the middle of it didn't really help matters. An economic crisis and a pandemic at the same time. Yay!

I don't claim to know all that much about the US economy or the current healthcare system. How much would it cost for the average American middle aged waitress at a little diner making minimum wage to be covered for any health problems or injury that might crop up?

On another note, the difference between insurance and public heathcare is that public healthcare doesn't cover lost wages. So even with public healthcare and no insurance you still get to sit at home getting healthy and going bankrupt. The company I work for pays for my insurance but it basically just covers my lost wages and gives me a little bonus if I lose a finger or something.

Depending on pre-existing conditions and age, a good individual health policy could cost between $250 and $1500 a month. Separate insurance is needed to cover lost wages.

 

[jinnia]

I like our open health care system where patients and doctors make the
decisions.

I do not want a closed health care system where Washington
decides.

 

[lots0]

What I find funny is that the people MOST opposed to a government run health care system are all on Medicare... A government run health care system that everyone seems to like.

I don't hear any calls for Medicare to be closed down...

You guys are so scared of the government.... But the people you should be scared of are the corporate health insurance companies.

The Insurance companies really do have death panels and rationed health care... Remember Granny couldn't get that life saving operation cuz the insurance company would not pay for it.... But that is OK because it's not government... Talk about about fucked up...

I guess it is hard to face the fact that you have been manipulated by the corporate health insurance companies and their bought and paid for lackeys into thinking that that the government that protects you is bad and the corporate insurance companies that that rip you off and deny medical coverage and let you die because you don't have enough money are the good guys...

Health insurance for all...even the stupid and manipulated.

 

[skiny]

I like our open health care system where patients and doctors make the
decisions.

I do not want a closed health care system where Washington
decides.

I don't understand what you're expecting Washington to decide? Since the day I was born I have never heard of any provincial government or the federal government of Canada getting involved in any decision between anyone's doctor and patient. Nobody tells me who to see, nobody tells me where to go and nobody tells any doctor or nurse where to work, where to live or who to treat.

We're talking about universal healthcare not communism.

 

[lots0]

We're talking about universal healthcare not communism.

You hit the nail on the head.

The paid manipulators, like the talking heads on Fox and paid lobbyists, have tried to tie communism, socialism and anything else with negative connotations they could think of to health insurance reform.

What I find amazing is that most of the folks that compare health insurance reform to Socialism or Communism don't have a clue what those forms of political governance are really all about. All they know is some talking head on the TV says its 'bad'... So it's bad... Maybe the debate should be about our educational system instead of our health insurance system

 

[bryand]

You hit the nail on the head.

The paid manipulators, like the talking heads on Fox and paid lobbyists, have tried to tie communism, socialism and anything else with negative connotations they could think of to health insurance reform.

What I find amazing is that most of the folks that compare health insurance reform to Socialism or Communism don't have a clue what those forms of political governance are really all about. All they know is some talking head on the TV says its 'bad'... So it's bad... Maybe the debate should be about our educational system instead of our health insurance system

Please tell me what its like to be so darn smart. Us stupid people could only dream.

 

[jinnia]

Sorry, not on Medicare, but my Dad is. He pays $99 a month to have it, although he already paid for it during his many years of working.
From a $3000 eye surgery, Dad STILL paid $1800 out of his own pocket, Medicare paid $1200.

Not 'scared' of the US government, just sick and tired of them trying to control
every aspect of our lives!!

IF the healthcare reform is handled as said, ie; Health Insurance Premium Relief, Strengthening Small Businesses, Eliminating Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions, Health Status or Gender, etc., it will be good, BUT, over and over, as our history shows, the elected government does NOT do things as is originally said.

 

[LaurieJim]

What I find funny is that the people MOST opposed to a government run health care system are all on Medicare... A government run health care system that everyone seems to like.

I don't hear any calls for Medicare to be closed down...

You guys are so scared of the government.... But the people you should be scared of are the corporate health insurance companies.

The Insurance companies really do have death panels and rationed health care... Remember Granny couldn't get that life saving operation cuz the insurance company would not pay for it.... But that is OK because it's not government... Talk about about fucked up...

I guess it is hard to face the fact that you have been manipulated by the corporate health insurance companies and their bought and paid for lackeys into thinking that that the government that protects you is bad and the corporate insurance companies that that rip you off and deny medical coverage and let you die because you don't have enough money are the good guys...

Health insurance for all...even the stupid and manipulated.

Tell me one good thing this President and this Democratic controlled Congress and Senate have done since taking office? I f you thought Bush was bad, just come back to this post in 2 years, if we are still a nation and still here now thats about frigging scarry, if your a small business .

This health care should have been put on the backburner, but this was always Obamas top agenda. What happened to all parties working together, a transparent goverment?

What have they tried to do about employment and getting the Country back on track, if the economy goes down, so does the money and then all the things we cherrish, maybe even your gambling or what you would have made from being an affiliate, cant play if you cant work or find work and have extra to deposit after paying sky rocketing bills, from the trickle down effect.

I think that we need to get what should come in order first, employment, ending 2 wars that he seems to not give a flip about and keeping the country stable insted of trying to borrow our way out of debt, thats what he has been hired to do.


I will keep my Guns, my Constitutional rights and ill gladly let any of you that think they are doing such a great job in Washington...............KEEP THE "CHANGE", your gonna need it..............laurie

 

[GamTrak]

You hit the nail on the head.

The paid manipulators, like the talking heads on Fox and paid lobbyists, have tried to tie communism, socialism and anything else with negative connotations they could think of to health insurance reform.

What I find amazing is that most of the folks that compare health insurance reform to Socialism or Communism don't have a clue what those forms of political governance are really all about. All they know is some talking head on the TV says its 'bad'... So it's bad... Maybe the debate should be about our educational system instead of our health insurance system

So true, but IT'S a DONE DEAL now!

House passes Affordable Health Care for America Act

On November 7, 2009, House Democrats made history for the American people, with the passage of the Affordable Health Care for America Act.

Our legislation delivers on the promise of making affordable, quality health insurance available to every American - and laying the foundation for a brighter future for generations to come.

The Affordable Health Care for America Act includes a strong public option and will:

Ensure affordability for the middle class;
Provide security for our seniors;
End discrimination for pre-existing medical conditions;
Invest in wellness and prevention; and
Ensure responsibility to our children - by not adding a dime to the deficit.

This historic victory was won because grassroots Democrats stood up and spoke out. Grassroots Democrats insisted on a strong public option and you are the ones who stood by us and fought hard every step of the way.

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

This historic victory was won because grassroots Democrats stood up and spoke out. Grassroots Democrats insisted on a strong public option and you are the ones who stood by us and fought hard every step of the way.

 

[LaurieJim]

So true, but IT'S a DONE DEAL now!


Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

This historic victory was won because grassroots Democrats stood up and spoke out. Grassroots Democrats insisted on a strong public option and you are the ones who stood by us and fought hard every step of the way.

A sad day in American History for those of us who follow and hold truth to the United States Constitution.....................laurie

 

[skiny]

A sad day in American History for those of us who follow and hold truth to the United States Constitution.....................laurie

I'm unclear on what public healthcare has to do with the constitution.

 

[LaurieJim]

I'm unclear on what public healthcare has to do with the constitution.

"The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, to pay debts, to provide for the common defense and the general welfare of the United States of America as a country, to borrow money, to regulate commerce with foreign nations and among the several states and with the Indian tribes, to establish a uniform rule of naturalization, to coin money and regulate its value, to provide for the punishment of counterfeiting money and securities, to establish post offices, to promote the progress of science and useful arts, to constitute courts inferior to the Supreme Court, to define and punish piracies on the high seas, to declare war, to raise and support armies, to provide and maintain a Navy, to make rules for the government and the regulation of the Army and the Navy, to provide for the calling forth of a militia, to provide for organizing arming disciplining the militia, to exercise exclusive authority in all cases over the District of Columbia and to make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers."




The 10th Amendment..........

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


They do not have the power under our Constitution to mandate this on us imo..............laurie

 

[jinnia]

Anyone recall the campaign? John McCains health care reform plan
and how Obama criticised him for it?

Obama: "For the first time in American history, he wants to tax your health benefits. Apparently, Senator McCain doesn't think it's enough that your health premiums have doubled. He thinks you should have to pay taxes on them, too."

But the reality of reforming health care from the White House has changed that. Despite campaign rhetoric, as president, Obama has refused to rule out a tax on money paid into a health plan, creating the appearance of a flip-flop on the issue.

Recently, Obama argued that taxing benefits is still not his first choice as a way to pay for health care, but that some compromise might have to be reached in Congress.

"You went after him for suggesting that we tax that money," Gibson said to Obama.

"I continue to believe that it would be the wrong way to go for us to eliminate the deduction, or the exclusion, on healthcare benefits," Obama replied. "That essentially taxes current benefits."

But, he said, among the options being discussed in Congress to cap the exclusion of healthcare benefits so that so-called gold-plated plans might pay more in taxes, might have to be part of the conversation.

"There's going to have to be some compromise at the end of the day," Obama said.

It's just a matter of time to see if the history of our US elected officials
continues on course, with their campaign lies and deceptions.

 

[skiny]

to provide for the common defense and the general welfare of the United States of America as a country


I guess that's open to interpretation.

 

[clj7221]

to provide for the common defense and the general welfare of the United States of America as a country


I guess that's open to interpretation.

Skiny, I would appreciate it if you clarify something with me about Canadian Health Care. You say it provides you with all the health care you need. What about someone in your country who is diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor, and of course requires surgery? Does your health care system immediately see to it this person has surgery before the tumor gets larger and the cancer spreads?

I mean your telling us all about the great basic health care your country provides but basic health care does not put anyone in America in to Bankruptcy. There are many clinics here in the U.S. that provides free services for basic health care based on income.

I would like to hear from you about people with serious life threatening conditions and how quickly Canadian Health care provides them treatment before their chances for survival are almost gone?

 

[lots0]

Please tell me what its like to be so darn smart. Us stupid people could only dream.

Are you angry and lashing out at me because you are starting to see that you have been manipulated by slick fast talking big money talking TV heads into acting against your own best interests???


@ Robin. Passing the House Bill is NOT the end of this medical reform debate. The Bill still has to pass the Senate and according to the Senate Republicans the Bill is "Dead On Arrival". And to be honest the health insurance companies have all of the Republican Senators in their pocket and some of the Democratic Senators as well, so the chances of the House Bill passing the Senate in it's current form is slim to none...

 

[bryand]

Are you angry and lashing out at me because you are starting to see that you have been manipulated by slick fast talking big money talking TV heads into acting against your own best interests???

I a not angry with you. You seem sincere albeit uninformed of the fiscal consequences that will be caused by the passing of Obamacare. Like most liberals you seem to want it all but have no idea how to pay for it. Further, a more helpful discussion would be to debate the issues rather than criticize Fox News, Republicans and conservative talk radio hosts (I took the liberty of guessing who you meant by 'slick').

I stopped long ago promoting the Republican party but believe strongly in conservative fiscal policy. I am moderate to liberal on social policy.

Specifically within the proposed healthcare bill that passed in the House, I do not favor: coverage of illegal aliens (all but 6 million apparently); federal coverage of abortion except in the case of rape, incest or if the mother's life is in danger; mandated employer coverage of employees and/or reduced medicare benefits.

 

[skiny]

Skiny, I would appreciate it if you clarify something with me about Canadian Health Care. You say it provides you with all the health care you need. What about someone in your country who is diagnosed with a malignant brain tumor, and of course requires surgery? Does your health care system immediately see to it this person has surgery before the tumor gets larger and the cancer spreads?

I mean your telling us all about the great basic health care your country provides but basic health care does not put anyone in America in to Bankruptcy. There are many clinics here in the U.S. that provides free services for basic health care based on income.

I would like to hear from you about people with serious life threatening conditions and how quickly Canadian Health care provides them treatment before their chances for survival are almost gone?

I never actually used the word "Great." In fact I said the money in Ontario is terribly mismanaged. But that's politics. I've not really known many people with life threatening illnesses thankfully but I remember my brother needed an MRI a couple of years ago. It wasn't life threatening and I think it took less than a month. I'm sure it would have been faster if waiting would have cause more harm. I know a woman who has cancer and she's had regular treatments since she was diagnosed without hassle.

Actually you probably have a better chance of being treated quickly in Ontario if you're suffering a life threatening illness or injury.

I will tell you what one of the biggest problems I see with free healthcare is... As I said before I haven't been treated for an injury in 15 years and I never see a doctor when I'm sick. I'm just never sick enough to bother but the hospitals and doctors offices are just full of people who seem to think it's necessary to run there every time they get a paper cut or a sniffle. (I'm exaggerating.) The wait times can be horrendous and people say it's a doctor and nurse shortage but personally I say half the problem comes from all the people who probably don't really need to be there anyway.

 

[bryand]

I never actually used the word "Great." In fact I said the money in Ontario is terribly mismanaged. But that's politics. I've not really known many people with life threatening illnesses thankfully but I remember my brother needed an MRI a couple of years ago. It wasn't life threatening and I think it took less than a month. I'm sure it would have been faster if waiting would have cause more harm. I know a woman who has cancer and she's had regular treatments since she was diagnosed without hassle.

Actually you probably have a better chance of being treated quickly in Ontario if you're suffering a life threatening illness or injury.

I will tell you what one of the biggest problems I see with free healthcare is... As I said before I haven't been treated for an injury in 15 years and I never see a doctor when I'm sick. I'm just never sick enough to bother but the hospitals and doctors offices are just full of people who seem to think it's necessary to run there every time they get a paper cut or a sniffle. (I'm exaggerating.) The wait times can be horrendous and people say it's a doctor and nurse shortage but personally I say half the problem comes from all the people who probably don't really need to be there anyway.

This is what I see happening in the US down the road not to mention overbilling fraud and a bigger black market for prescription drugs.

 

[skiny]

This is what I see happening in the US down the road not to mention overbilling fraud and a bigger black market for prescription drugs.

Well, it's a big problem but who can walk into a hospital and say "You should be here, you should be here, you should leave?" Someone has to check these people out first and some people just don't know enough to go lay down when they get a cold. As for overbilling I don't think I've ever heard of an overbilling problem. Maybe there's standardized pricing. I don't know. I've never charged anyone for medical services. And as for presicription drugs, that's not covered under OHIP. You need insurance for prescriptions. Dental is also not covered. Eye exams.... I think they took out ambulance rides some time ago too. Of course if I have to pay for ambulance rides I should be able to call them for any reason as long as I'm in a hurry.

 

[bryand]

Well, it's a big problem but who can walk into a hospital and say "You should be here, you should be here, you should leave?" Someone has to check these people out first and some people just don't know enough to go lay down when they get a cold. As for overbilling I don't think I've ever heard of an overbilling problem. Maybe there's standardized pricing. I don't know. I've never charged anyone for medical services. And as for presicription drugs, that's not covered under OHIP. You need insurance for prescriptions. Dental is also not covered. Eye exams.... I think they took out ambulance rides some time ago too. Of course if I have to pay for ambulance rides I should be able to call them for any reason as long as I'm in a hurry.

We already have a big fraud problem with Medicaid (healthcare for the poor) and Medicare (healthcare for the elderly). Shady medical clinics bill the government for BILLIONS of dollars each year for bogus services. We also have a big problem with people selling prescription narcotics on the street.