krino VS GoWild

[krino]

A few weeks ago I won 6500 euro (+200 deposit which they returned) at the GoWild casino with the first deposit bonus. I played the slots and was very lucky, because I won this money with just a 20 euro bet.

As you can imagine I was very happy and anxious to wait for the money to arrive. After one day I had not received mail from GoWild, which I thought was strange because of the size of my win, so I uploaded copies of my identification papers to their finance office. They were very slow to give response and when they finally did they sent me this mail >

Hello XXXX,
We hope this email finds you well.
We would like to inform you that during the standard account review procedure, our Department detected that your account was registered using matching info in other accounts.
According to our Casino Policy, only one account is permitted per person, household, IP address or shared computer environment.
Due to the fact that this term has been violated, your account is permanently locked. Your deposit is refunded to your Skrill account and any amount remaining in the account will be void.
In addition, it was brought to our attention by our processing company that there are links between you and other registered accounts.
Please note that this matter will be reported to all relevant departments.

It is simply impossible that I used matching info from other accounts. So I sent a mail for them to clear everything >

Hi,
The email absolutely did not find me well. This is outrageous. I have won that money fair and square and I have not broken any of your terms and conditions. This must be one of the biggest disappointments in my life.
I am sure you have made a mistake. It is impossible that I used matching info from other accounts. I am the only one who stays in this house and I bought it so it is in my name. I also am the only user of my computer and internet connection and it is protected with several levels of security.
There are only 2 persons I know from who I am sure that they play at your casino because they recommended it to me. They are my best friends. I know them since I was young. I do not see in your terms and conditions that it is forbidden to have a few friends who play at the same casino as I do.
My account could very well have links to their accounts by Skrill because we were doing transfers with Moneybookers already in 2007. We all play poker, sportsbook and casinos and we have made transfers to each other all these years and it has never been a problem.
Can you please reconsider your decision, because I feel that I have done absolutely nothing wrong and you are only doing this because I won so much money.
I also want to inform you that if you do not payout the amount of 6700 euro that I won fair and square in your casino I will complain about what you did to me at your software provider, your license provider, all public gambling forums that I am aware of to make sure that everybody knows that you stole my money.
I really hope that this is a honest mistake from your side and that you will take another look at this and process the payout of 6700 euro, because I am the only one in this house who has ever played at your casino and I have not broken any of your terms and conditions.
I hope you reply quick this time.
Regards,
XXXX

Since then they have been ignoring my mail, while I am willing to be completely open about everything they want to know and to provide them with all the necessary information to confirm that I am the only one in the house who ever played at their casino.

Now I feel that I have no other choice to come out in the open with what they have done. I was under the impression that GoWild was accredited at Casinomeister when I won the money, but I saw that has changed some while ago so that sucks.

I will be contacting Microgaming and the license provider in Malta in the coming days with a link to this post. If there is in the mean time anyone who has advice for me what I can do more, besides the legal route which will no doubt be very expensive, I would be very thankful. I have never ever won so much money in my life and now that I do GoWild steals it!

 

[Seventh777]

Firstly I would contact one of the reps from here, Gia would probably be the best, if this does not resolve your problem then try a PAB, if you do file a PAB do not post anymore regarding this matter.

Hope this helps.

 

[krino]

Thank you for the advice. I have contacted Gia GoWild by PM.

 

[Nifty29]

Well they are hardly going to keep dealing with you when you use threats and blackmail. In my experience, these are the tactics that fraudsters use to force casinos to pay. You will find that, if this is the case, you will be exposed very quickly and be placed on an anti-fraud database and find many casinos will not take your action.

In the event that you are totally legit, then contact the rep as advised, and if you have not received a response within 48 hrs or you're unhappy with the response you do receive, then visit the following link to submit a complaint:

https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

Remember that ALL evidence will be made available to Max and CM so keep that in mind before you proceed.

 

[maphesto]

My own guess ist that GoWild have seen a shared IP. If a player uses a friends computer, or uses same home network, the casino recognizes the IP as another players info. From GoWilds T&C:S

5.3 Your membership or subscription is personal to you and you may not transfer or make available your account name and password to others and you may not use anyone else’s account at any time.

5.6 GoWild reserves the right to cancel your account without refund if it becomes aware that you have disclosed your account details and password to a third party.

It´s hard to believe that GoWild gather info from Skrill in every single case. They recognized something, otherwise they never would have checked with Skrill. If they find shared IP, they can easily think that it´s the same player who finds new ways to use the fine welcome bonus.

To OP! If you used a friends computer, or network, be honest when (if) you send your PAB. You probably don´t wan´t to respond to this thread more now, but this was my guess. And don´t threat the casino more, they have seen that kind of behaviour too many times before.

 

[HadEnouth]

What I will never understand is why casinos let people sign up on the same ip, They never say nothing when you lose, but soon as you win. BYE BYE.

I know this can be programmed in casino software at registering. There is some playtech casinos if you try to register again from Same ip, It says sorry, It seems you already got a account.

Far as I am concerned casinos let this happen because it is a win win for them no matter what. Deserves people right that try to defraud a casino, But alot of inncent people do get caught up on this, and that is my problem about the whole thing. As I travel sometimes and stay at friends houses and stuff. Ive sometimes logged into my casino accounts from another persons house when I stayed over, Does that make me a fraudster, hell no. Does it make the person at that house a fraudster if later he opens a account there and plays, No.

It should be one account per person (proper id checks would prevent fraud), It should never be one account per ip address. More than One person tends to live in a house.

 

[Nifty29]

What I will never understand is why casinos let people sign up on the same ip, They never say nothing when you lose, but soon as you win. BYE BYE.

I know this can be programmed in casino software at registering. There is some playtech casinos if you try to register again from Same ip, It says sorry, It seems you already got a account.

Far as I am concerned casinos let this happen because it is a win win for them no matter what. Deserves people right that try to defraud a casino, But alot of inncent people do get caught up on this, and that is my problem about the whole thing. As I travel sometimes and stay at friends houses and stuff. Ive sometimes logged into my casino accounts from another persons house when I stayed over, Does that make me a fraudster, hell no. Does it make the person at that house a fraudster if later he opens a account there and plays, No.

It should be one account per person (proper id checks would prevent fraud), It should never be one account per ip address. More than One person tends to live in a house.

The problem is that fraudsters will signup multiple accounts to claim free chips until they win, and then have fake or someone else's ID ready to claim the winnings.

If there weren't so many dishonest people around, rules like these wouldn't be needed.

It is seldom that a totally innocent player gets caught in this net, and most examples I've seen have been resolved by higher management. 99.9% of people caught by this rule know exactly what they're doing.

It's not difficult....just ask everyone else in the house if they have an account. If they do, and tell you they don't, its your problem not the casinos. If you play your account at a friends house, it should not preclude them from registering as you did not register the account from that IP. Alternatively, don't play on someone else's computer.

 

[Realitybitez]

What I will never understand is why casinos let people sign up on the same ip, They never say nothing when you lose, but soon as you win. BYE BYE.

I know this can be programmed in casino software at registering. There is some playtech casinos if you try to register again from Same ip, It says sorry, It seems you already got a account.

Far as I am concerned casinos let this happen because it is a win win for them no matter what. Deserves people right that try to defraud a casino, But alot of inncent people do get caught up on this, and that is my problem about the whole thing. As I travel sometimes and stay at friends houses and stuff. Ive sometimes logged into my casino accounts from another persons house when I stayed over, Does that make me a fraudster, hell no. Does it make the person at that house a fraudster if later he opens a account there and plays, No.

It should be one account per person (proper id checks would prevent fraud), It should never be one account per ip address. More than One person tends to live in a house.

I was just wondering about that. If Im at a friends house. They have my casino installed on their computer, they also have an account with this casino, but I sign in using my account, would I, then be had up for fraud? Would they also then be had up for fraud? Aye? How does that work?

And I have to agreed: It should be one account per person (proper id checks would prevent fraud), It should never be one account per ip address. More than One person tends to live in a house.

 

[Tirilej]

I was just wondering about that. If Im at a friends house. They have my casino installed on their computer, they also have an account with this casino, but I sign in using my account, would I, then be had up for fraud? Would they also then be had up for fraud? Aye? How does that work?

And I have to agreed: It should be one account per person (proper id checks would prevent fraud), It should never be one account per ip address. More than One person tends to live in a house.

Some casinos will allow you to play on someone elses computer, even if they have an account. But to prevent being accused and to make sure all is clear, all you have to do is to confirm it with the casino first.
They won't all allow it so be careful, and be sure you have it in writing.

 

[Gia - GoWild]

A few weeks ago I won 6500 euro (+200 deposit which they returned) at the GoWild casino with the first deposit bonus. I played the slots and was very lucky, because I won this money with just a 20 euro bet.

As you can imagine I was very happy and anxious to wait for the money to arrive. After one day I had not received mail from GoWild, which I thought was strange because of the size of my win, so I uploaded copies of my identification papers to their finance office. They were very slow to give response and when they finally did they sent me this mail >

Hello XXXX,
We hope this email finds you well.
We would like to inform you that during the standard account review procedure, our Department detected that your account was registered using matching info in other accounts.
According to our Casino Policy, only one account is permitted per person, household, IP address or shared computer environment.
Due to the fact that this term has been violated, your account is permanently locked. Your deposit is refunded to your Skrill account and any amount remaining in the account will be void.
In addition, it was brought to our attention by our processing company that there are links between you and other registered accounts.
Please note that this matter will be reported to all relevant departments.

It is simply impossible that I used matching info from other accounts. So I sent a mail for them to clear everything >

Hi,
The email absolutely did not find me well. This is outrageous. I have won that money fair and square and I have not broken any of your terms and conditions. This must be one of the biggest disappointments in my life.
I am sure you have made a mistake. It is impossible that I used matching info from other accounts. I am the only one who stays in this house and I bought it so it is in my name. I also am the only user of my computer and internet connection and it is protected with several levels of security.
There are only 2 persons I know from who I am sure that they play at your casino because they recommended it to me. They are my best friends. I know them since I was young. I do not see in your terms and conditions that it is forbidden to have a few friends who play at the same casino as I do.
My account could very well have links to their accounts by Skrill because we were doing transfers with Moneybookers already in 2007. We all play poker, sportsbook and casinos and we have made transfers to each other all these years and it has never been a problem.
Can you please reconsider your decision, because I feel that I have done absolutely nothing wrong and you are only doing this because I won so much money.
I also want to inform you that if you do not payout the amount of 6700 euro that I won fair and square in your casino I will complain about what you did to me at your software provider, your license provider, all public gambling forums that I am aware of to make sure that everybody knows that you stole my money.
I really hope that this is a honest mistake from your side and that you will take another look at this and process the payout of 6700 euro, because I am the only one in this house who has ever played at your casino and I have not broken any of your terms and conditions.
I hope you reply quick this time.
Regards,
XXXX

Since then they have been ignoring my mail, while I am willing to be completely open about everything they want to know and to provide them with all the necessary information to confirm that I am the only one in the house who ever played at their casino.

Now I feel that I have no other choice to come out in the open with what they have done. I was under the impression that GoWild was accredited at Casinomeister when I won the money, but I saw that has changed some while ago so that sucks.

I will be contacting Microgaming and the license provider in Malta in the coming days with a link to this post. If there is in the mean time anyone who has advice for me what I can do more, besides the legal route which will no doubt be very expensive, I would be very thankful. I have never ever won so much money in my life and now that I do GoWild steals it!

Hi Krino,

I've just verified with our Fraud department regarding your case.

As mentioned by our fraud department, during a verification of your account, we've detected not only matching info with other registered accounts but also recognized the same betting pattern, deposit amounts and the game they all played.

All linked accounts played the same game, using the same bet size, deposited the same amount and shared identical betting pattern.

For all the above reasons, we've contacted our processing company to further investigate this case. As stated in the email from Finance department, it was brought to our attention there are also links between you and other registered accounts by our processors.

With this in mind, all related accounts have been permanently closed, your deposit was refunded to your Skrill account any additional credits have been voided. This matter has been reported to all related departments, as per our user terms and conditions policy.

 

[vinylweatherman]

A single IP address doesn't even "live" in the same house, it moves around as the ISP allocates them as subscribers switch on their internet each day, and even where users leave it switched on, IP addresses are "refreshed" regularly, and during this process can change.

The things that are specific to houses are MAC and email addresses. You would have to be a daft fraudster to use the same email address for multiple accounts, but many use the same computer or network, but give false details for each account (usually those of a friend willing to stump up the documents should the account be a winner).

Registration records much of this additional information, so "matching details" between accounts is not necessarily the information provided by the player, but MAC and serial numbers extracted from the hardware on which the casino has been installed. If the same PC, same internet modem/hub, etc are detected for two accounts, but the addresses are different, suspicions will be raised. Even reinstalling the OS between accounts doesn't work.

Once suspicions have been raised, they may then go to their processor, even Skrill, for additional evidence.
It is unwise to use your casino gambling eWallet for your peer to peer transfers. Even when these are innocent, it looks very suspicious (like the financial inner workings of a player syndicate).

Complaining to Malta or Microgaming is an even LESS effective method than posting about it in a forum. The advice to contact the rep and/or PAB is the best. If they have the eCogra seal, a complaint can be made to eCogra as an alternative to a PAB.

Legal action is a LAST resort, and even for €6500 the costs may well outweigh the benefits.

 

[maphesto]

we've detected not only matching info with other registered accounts but also recognized the same betting pattern, deposit amounts and the game they all played.

Just curious, what was the matching info? Was it mac address or IP address? Same City?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Krino,

I've just verified with our Fraud department regarding your case.

As mentioned by our fraud department, during a verification of your account, we've detected not only matching info with other registered accounts but also recognized the same betting pattern, deposit amounts and the game they all played.

All linked accounts played the same game, using the same bet size, deposited the same amount and shared identical betting pattern.

For all the above reasons, we've contacted our processing company to further investigate this case. As stated in the email from Finance department, it was brought to our attention there are also links between you and other registered accounts by our processors.

With this in mind, all related accounts have been permanently closed, your deposit was refunded to your Skrill account any additional credits have been voided. This matter has been reported to all related departments, as per our user terms and conditions policy.

This can also have an innocent explanation.

The deposit amount is governed by the welcome offer, hence new players (if they have the funds) are going to deposit what is needed to get the biggest bonus.

Games and betting patterns matching could just indicate a "serving suggestion" found on an affiliate forum as how to get the best from the bonus. There are numerous affiliates who advertise on the basis of mechanically recovering the best withdrawal amount from whatever bonus is on offer. These specify in some detail the best game to play, what pattern to use, and what betsize to use. Unconnected players will be playing the same pattern because their aim is to win and move on, and although not desired by the casino, it is not against the terms to try and win. If affiliates are marketing the casino on the basis of "bonus whoring" advice, the casino could decide to terminate their contract for bringing in the wrong kind of traffic, but they don't - the sit back and confiscate winnings from individual players, but dare not p1$$ off the affiliate bringing them in.

On the subject of breaches of terms and conditions...

I couldn't help but notice your signature.................

 

[Seventh777]

Just curious, what was the matching info? Was it mac address or IP address? Same City?

Every single part of your hardware carries a unique ID code, also VWM is slightly wrong with his IP analysis (he only described Dynamic IP`s), there are basically 2 forms of IP`s -Static and Dynamic, these both have leases, a Static IP address has a far longer lease and in most cases when this lease expires you are still allotted the same IP again (unless you release it just prior to it`s expiry date, and don`t renew it for a good few hours afterwards). Dynamic IP`s renew each time you boot your PC, they can however change whilst you are online, and are sometimes the cause of annoying disconnections when playing.

There are certain other aspects as well that are picked up on security sweeps - Your OS, Browser, Various software`s installed.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Every single part of your hardware carries a unique ID code, also VWM is slightly wrong with his IP analysis (he only described Dynamic IP`s), there are basically 2 forms of IP`s -Static and Dynamic, these both have leases, a Static IP address has a far longer lease and in most cases when this lease expires you are still allotted the same IP again (unless you release it just prior to it`s expiry date, and don`t renew it for a good few hours afterwards). Dynamic IP`s renew each time you boot your PC, they can however change whilst you are online, and are sometimes the cause of annoying disconnections when playing.

There are certain other aspects as well that are picked up on security sweeps - Your OS, Browser, Various software`s installed.

I left out static IP because it is not something most home users get. This is because there are not enough IP addresses available in the current standard, so the switch to dynamic IP addresses has been made by almost all ISPs. Static IP addresses are available by request, but cost more as they are no longer available for dynamic allocation to other customers, with the risk that an ISP will run out of IP addresses under heavy load and not be able to serve it's customers.

NTL used to offer static IP addresses for the cable connection, but this switched to dynamic long before Virgin took over.

The new standard, when fully implemented globally, will solve the problem, and every customer and every device will be able to have it's own unique static IP address. The hold up is that not everything is compatible with this new standard, so it cannot be rolled out.

Computers and other devices CAN be uniquely identified, and there is no need to worry about IP addresses. A casino can tell for CERTAIN whether the same computer has been used for more than one account, so if a player lies about it, the casino is then even MORE suspicious than before.

The OP's email seems to defend every possible "charge" the casino might produce evidence for, and it's detail itself is "suspicious". Bringing up Skrill transfers from 2007 could be an attempt to divert attention from the REAL "gotcha" that the casino has discovered. Such a reply can only come from an experienced and well educated player. I had no idea whatsoever that transfers in Neteller could have any bearing on deposits, play, and verification at a casino. I learned about this by reading the forums.

The OP knows so much about this aspect, yet seems very naive about the best way to make a complaint.

It looks like a correct bust by GoWild, but the OP can still PAB if they think this is all "circumstantial", and they are an innocent victim of the multi account detection systems.

 

[Seventh777]

I left out static IP because it is not something most home users get. This is because there are not enough IP addresses available in the current standard, so the switch to dynamic IP addresses has been made by almost all ISPs. Static IP addresses are available by request, but cost more as they are no longer available for dynamic allocation to other customers, with the risk that an ISP will run out of IP addresses under heavy load and not be able to serve it's customers.

NTL used to offer static IP addresses for the cable connection, but this switched to dynamic long before Virgin took over.

The new standard, when fully implemented globally, will solve the problem, and every customer and every device will be able to have it's own unique static IP address. The hold up is that not everything is compatible with this new standard, so it cannot be rolled out.

Computers and other devices CAN be uniquely identified, and there is no need to worry about IP addresses. A casino can tell for CERTAIN whether the same computer has been used for more than one account, so if a player lies about it, the casino is then even MORE suspicious than before.

The OP's email seems to defend every possible "charge" the casino might produce evidence for, and it's detail itself is "suspicious". Bringing up Skrill transfers from 2007 could be an attempt to divert attention from the REAL "gotcha" that the casino has discovered. Such a reply can only come from an experienced and well educated player. I had no idea whatsoever that transfers in Neteller could have any bearing on deposits, play, and verification at a casino. I learned about this by reading the forums.

The OP knows so much about this aspect, yet seems very naive about the best way to make a complaint.

It looks like a correct bust by GoWild, but the OP can still PAB if they think this is all "circumstantial", and they are an innocent victim of the multi account detection systems.

I just had a quick look at my ipconfig to check my IP lease time, it appears that mine has changed from Static to Dynamic it had been static for years........



As you can see it is only an hourly lease, I will check after this hour to see if I keep the same IP.

@Neteller and linking accounts, as you may be aware of you can start a basic Neteller account easy and quickly without any need for verification (verifications only upgrade the account created), and you can create accounts using the same PC with NP`s, I would pretty much guarantee that these fraudsters have one main account that is verified and an e-card has been issued, start accounts with friends/relatives details load these accounts and deposit using them, withdraw to them and transfer winnings to the main account.

As Neteller have no qualms in assisting casinos tracking these fraudsters they could help them immensely by restricting accounts to one per household, this reminds me of a statement many years ago by the then American President (Carter or Reagan iirc), whilst talking about the UK`s problem with the IRA and I quote `How can we help you guys with this problem?`, my instantaneous response was - To stop helping fund them, would be a great start (NOR-AID collection boxes placed at many establishments including McDonalds).

 

[vinylweatherman]

I just had a quick look at my ipconfig to check my IP lease time, it appears that mine has changed from Static to Dynamic it had been static for years........

View attachment 31967

As you can see it is only an hourly lease, I will check after this hour to see if I keep the same IP.

@Neteller and linking accounts, as you may be aware of you can start a basic Neteller account easy and quickly without any need for verification (verifications only upgrade the account created), and you can create accounts using the same PC with NP`s, I would pretty much guarantee that these fraudsters have one main account that is verified and an e-card has been issued, start accounts with friends/relatives details load these accounts and deposit using them, withdraw to them and transfer winnings to the main account.

As Neteller have no qualms in assisting casinos tracking these fraudsters they could help them immensely by restricting accounts to one per household, this reminds me of a statement many years ago by the then American President (Carter or Reagan iirc), whilst talking about the UK`s problem with the IRA and I quote `How can we help you guys with this problem?`, my instantaneous response was - To stop helping fund them, would be a great start (NOR-AID collection boxes placed at many establishments including McDonalds).

This would be a problem for Neteller, as they would then have to accept that all members of a household use the same Neteller account. I thought only verified accounts could use peer to peer transfers, and that this was implemented to prevent basic satellite accounts from being used in this manner, whether or not for online gambling.

 

[Seventh777]

This would be a problem for Neteller, as they would then have to accept that all members of a household use the same Neteller account. I thought only verified accounts could use peer to peer transfers, and that this was implemented to prevent basic satellite accounts from being used in this manner, whether or not for online gambling.

I`m pretty sure you can use peer to peer transfers with some basic verification, as far as using different accounts from the same household this could be easily cured by creating accounts at an alternative place 1st, which again just opens doors for these fraudsters, what ever way you look at it, it`s a nightmare for casinos in combating multi account based fraudsters.

 

[KasinoKing]

@ Mods: Was the OP banned from the forum purely based on what Go Wild posted - or do you have additional information?
It seemed very quick & harsh from what I've read.

Also, does being banned from the forum prevent the player from submitting a PAB?

I agree with what VWM said (below) - based on what has been written so far, this player COULD be just another "advantage player" and not any type of fraudster.
I would like to think that CM gives players the "benefit of the doubt" until conclusive proof is obtained...

This can also have an innocent explanation.

The deposit amount is governed by the welcome offer, hence new players (if they have the funds) are going to deposit what is needed to get the biggest bonus.

Games and betting patterns matching could just indicate a "serving suggestion" found on an affiliate forum as how to get the best from the bonus. There are numerous affiliates who advertise on the basis of mechanically recovering the best withdrawal amount from whatever bonus is on offer. These specify in some detail the best game to play, what pattern to use, and what betsize to use. Unconnected players will be playing the same pattern because their aim is to win and move on, and although not desired by the casino, it is not against the terms to try and win. If affiliates are marketing the casino on the basis of "bonus whoring" advice, the casino could decide to terminate their contract for bringing in the wrong kind of traffic, but they don't - the sit back and confiscate winnings from individual players, but dare not p1$$ off the affiliate bringing them in.

KK

 

[Seventh777]

@ Mods: Was the OP banned from the forum purely based on what Go Wild posted - or do you have additional information?
It seemed very quick & harsh from what I've read.

Does being banned prevent the player from submitting a PAB?

I agree with what VWM said (below) - based on what has been written so far, this player COULD be just another "advantage player" and not any type of fraudster.
I would like to think that CM gives players the "benefit of the doubt" until conclusive proof is obtained...




KK

Bryan, Max and co are privy to information that we are not, if the player has been banned due to this privy info i`m pretty confident that their actions were justified .

 

[threescatters]

@ Mods: Was the OP banned from the forum purely based on what Go Wild posted - or do you have additional information?
It seemed very quick & harsh from what I've read.

Also, does being banned from the forum prevent the player from submitting a PAB?

I agree with what VWM said (below) - based on what has been written so far, this player COULD be just another "advantage player" and not any type of fraudster.
I would like to think that CM gives players the "benefit of the doubt" until conclusive proof is obtained...




KK

I kinda agree with this. My instinct is that this person was up to no good but the things claimed like playing the same game, depositing the same amount, betting the same way are entirely circumstantial imo. I agree in protecting casinos from these players but this is all a bit shaky to me.

 

[Simmo!]

I kinda agree with this. My instinct is that this person was up to no good but the things claimed like playing the same game, depositing the same amount, betting the same way are entirely circumstantial imo. I agree in protecting casinos from these players but this is all a bit shaky to me.

I might be inclined to agree normally but that's not all the information. Individually they don't hold water but together (with the other stuff) they sound convincing to me:

The rep said they used the "same info" as SEVERAL other accounts, not just one or two. Let's assume its less obvious than email address, DoB and say it's the IP that matches.

While the argument that an IP can be dynamic stands up to a degree, what are the chances that "several" people in the same area use the same ISP, picked up the exact same dynamic IP address, deposited IDENTICAL amounts, bet with EXACTLY the same bet size, played on EXACTLY the same game (when there are over 400 to choose from) and bet EXACTLY the same way?

I'm not privy to any background informaton but if it was my casino, I'd have reached the same conclusion.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I might be inclined to agree normally but that's not all the information. Individually they don't hold water but together (with the other stuff) they sound convincing to me:

The rep said they used the "same info" as SEVERAL other accounts, not just one or two. Let's assume its less obvious than email address, DoB and say it's the IP that matches.

While the argument that an IP can be dynamic stands up to a degree, what are the chances that "several" people in the same area use the same ISP, picked up the exact same dynamic IP address, deposited IDENTICAL amounts, bet with EXACTLY the same bet size, played on EXACTLY the same game (when there are over 400 to choose from) and bet EXACTLY the same way?

I'm not privy to any background informaton but if it was my casino, I'd have reached the same conclusion.

I suspect the GoWild rep decided to share what they had in advance of any PAB, and it was convincing enough for the decision to ban the OP to be taken without the need to bust him through a fraudulent PAB.

There have been a small number of occasions where Bryan and Max got it wrong, and since this was later corrected, there has to be a means to appeal the decision without access to the forum.

 

[LaHutti]

The odds of that happening, would be around the same, as me hitting the jackpot on Megah Moolah, I think.
I guess it has been proven without the shaddow of a doubt, that the player committed fraud, since the money was taken away from him, and he was banned from the forum. What I don't understand is, if fraud was commited, in the legal sense of the word, why was he not taken to a court of law ? You go to prison for commiting fraud, in most countries.
It would truly be bad, if all of this was done to a player, without solid indisputable proof, and it shouldn't be a matter of whether or not someone "thinks" that the casino is "guessing" right.
These are serious accusations, and the thought of casinos or fora, to be allowed to make up their own laws, and judge people, without solid indisputable proof, simply gives me the creeps.

 

[The Dude]

The casino was one step of the player and forwarded me information that supports their claim.

The player has contacted me and still wants to PAB - so I'm going to reopen his account, and let him have a shot at it.

 

[threescatters]

I might be inclined to agree normally but that's not all the information. Individually they don't hold water but together (with the other stuff) they sound convincing to me:

Well I think this is fair and tbh you are right. It is definately my instinct the player was up to no good here, I was just making a point.

Fair play to casinomeister opening it back up to PAB if the player wants to. Can't be any argument then really.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The odds of that happening, would be around the same, as me hitting the jackpot on Megah Moolah, I think.
I guess it has been proven without the shaddow of a doubt, that the player committed fraud, since the money was taken away from him, and he was banned from the forum. What I don't understand is, if fraud was commited, in the legal sense of the word, why was he not taken to a court of law ? You go to prison for commiting fraud, in most countries.
It would truly be bad, if all of this was done to a player, without solid indisputable proof, and it shouldn't be a matter of whether or not someone "thinks" that the casino is "guessing" right.
These are serious accusations, and the thought of casinos or fora, to be allowed to make up their own laws, and judge people, without solid indisputable prrof, simply gives me the creeps.

Casinos have a wide definition of fraud. This may not be "criminal fraud", but merely a breach of the terms by being very clever. If all the details given were of genuine people, but one player actually operated the accounts, it would be hard to find evidence of fraud that stood up in a criminal court, as the act of playing your friend's account is just a breach of the terms, and in other businesses, this kind of thing is not a problem. I can pay for my niece's shopping with my credit card, the shop gets paid, and it's my problem getting the money back. If, however, I use my card to deposit into my niece's casino account, and tell her what game to play, how to play, and when to withdraw, the casino will view this as fraud, but in law it is merely a breach of the terms. Fraud in the criminal sense would only apply if the card was stolen, or the payment was deliberately charged back after winnings were paid out, or losses incurred.

In a case like this, the breach is dealt with by voiding the contract, which in practical terms means sending the deposit back to the player, and banning them from the casino.

In a famous London casino case, a group of players beat Roulette by using a laser sensing device attached to a small computer to predict which sector the ball would land in, and they would get their bets in just before betting closed. The casino went to court to recover winnings already paid out before they were caught, and LOST. The ruling indicated that remote sensing did not actually "interfere with the outcomes", so no actual "cheating" took place. This left the casino with only the option to bar the group from further play under their terms of admission. I don't think there were laws, unlike Nevada, that made such devices specifically illegal.

Card counting is not illegal, even in Vegas, but if spotted, casinos can use their right to refuse admission.

 

[LaHutti]

Casinos have a wide definition of fraud. This may not be "criminal fraud", but merely a breach of the terms by being very clever. If all the details given were of genuine people, but one player actually operated the accounts, it would be hard to find evidence of fraud that stood up in a criminal court, as the act of playing your friend's account is just a breach of the terms, and in other businesses, this kind of thing is not a problem. I can pay for my niece's shopping with my credit card, the shop gets paid, and it's my problem getting the money back. If, however, I use my card to deposit into my niece's casino account, and tell her what game to play, how to play, and when to withdraw, the casino will view this as fraud, but in law it is merely a breach of the terms. Fraud in the criminal sense would only apply if the card was stolen, or the payment was deliberately charged back after winnings were paid out, or losses incurred.

In a case like this, the breach is dealt with by voiding the contract, which in practical terms means sending the deposit back to the player, and banning them from the casino.

In a famous London casino case, a group of players beat Roulette by using a laser sensing device attached to a small computer to predict which sector the ball would land in, and they would get their bets in just before betting closed. The casino went to court to recover winnings already paid out before they were caught, and LOST. The ruling indicated that remote sensing did not actually "interfere with the outcomes", so no actual "cheating" took place. This left the casino with only the option to bar the group from further play under their terms of admission. I don't think there were laws, unlike Nevada, that made such devices specifically illegal.

Card counting is not illegal, even in Vegas, but if spotted, casinos can use their right to refuse admission.

So in essence, the casino is taking the players money, and the player now has to prove, that he did not commit fraud, instead of the casino having to prove that he did. Isn't that just wonderful. ?
It sure tickles me, in the place where I keep my sense of justice.

 

[threescatters]

So in essence, the casino is taking the players money, and the player now has to prove, that he did not commit fraud, instead of the casino having to prove that he did. Isn't that just wonderful. ?
It sure tickles me, in the place where I keep my sense of justice.

In my opinion, confiscation of the winnings is a just penalty for a serious breach of the casinos t and cs where somebodys aim was to obtain money by deception. I think most fair gamblers and operators would agree there has to be punishment in those cases. The problem here, and in other similar situations, is the burden of proof, and how strict it should be.

 

[Nifty29]

So in essence, the casino is taking the players money, and the player now has to prove, that he did not commit fraud, instead of the casino having to prove that he did. Isn't that just wonderful. ?
It sure tickles me, in the place where I keep my sense of justice.

I think the casino HAS proven their case.

It is NOT a court of law. You agree that the casino has the final decision in all matters. If you dont agree with that, why do you play online?

 

[vinylweatherman]

So in essence, the casino is taking the players money, and the player now has to prove, that he did not commit fraud, instead of the casino having to prove that he did. Isn't that just wonderful. ?
It sure tickles me, in the place where I keep my sense of justice.

Where there is independent arbitration available, the balance is redressed. In such cases, casinos do not really have the final say, not if they value their status and reputation.

Although the initial determination was guilty as charged, and supported by Bryan, a chance has been granted to appeal via a PAB.

According to Bryan, there is no such animal as "bonus abuse". GoWild will have to show that specific terms have been breached, and that the evidence is more than circumstantial.

The charge here is multiple accounts, which is in breach of specific terms.

 

[LaHutti]

I think the casino HAS proven their case.

It is NOT a court of law. You agree that the casino has the final decision in all matters. If you dont agree with that, why do you play online?

It's not a question of me playing online, or not.
It's a question of whether it should be allowed for these places to make up their own laws, as they see fit, and get away with confiscating peoples money, without having to prove, that the player did anything wrong, in a court of law. It's the wild west all over.
I'm sorry, but however much I respect the work Bryan and Max are doing, they have no legal status, and it should NOT be determined by people running a website, and the casino in question, whether said casino should be allowed to steal peoples money.
As I said, the whole thing tickles my sense of justice.
And just to make things clear, I mean NO disrespect to Bryan and Max, and actually appreciate the work they do, since it's the best/only thing players are left with, unfortunately.
And you said it yourself.... <quote> "I THINK the casino proved their case" </quote>. My point is....it doesn't matter what you or anyone else THINK. I know you like to make it sound as your opinion in these matters count more than others. I tend to disagree.

 

[Nifty29]

It's not a question of me playing online, or not.
It's a question of whether it should be allowed for these places to make up their own laws, as they see fit, and get away with confiscating peoples money, without having to prove, that the player did anything wrong, in a court of law. It's the wild west all over.
I'm sorry, but however much I respect the work Bryan and Max are doing, they have no legal status, and it should NOT be determined by people running a website, and the casino in question, whether said casino should be allowed to steal peoples money.
As I said, the whole thing tickles my sense of justice.
And just to make things clear, I mean NO disrespect to Bryan and Max, and actually appreciate the work they do, since it's the best/only thing players are left with, unfortunately.
And you said it yourself.... <quote> "I THINK the casino proved their case" </quote>. My point is....it doesn't matter what you or anyone else THINK. I know you like to make it sound as your opinion in these matters count more than others. I tend to disagree.

When you create an online casino account, you agree to be bound by whatever conditions they see fit to impose as per the terms and conditions. Further, you agree that the casino will have the final say.

It's got nothing to do with "justice". It's not a court. It's an agreement you enter into with tje casino EVERY time YOU play....so it IS relevant to you playing online....if these terms are so awful and "unjust" and they just "steal" people's money, why WOULD you play? It doesn't say much for the strength of your argument when you go along with it all BY CHOICE.

In the vast majority of cases, someone is trying to "steal" money from the casino by either fake ID or breaking clearly stated bonus terms. Funny how in 15 years I've never once had winnings confiscated, and many people I know are the same. I wonder why that is? I guess I'm just lucky it hasn't been my turn to be "robbed" yet

Fraudsters etc deserve what they get....or don't get more aptly....because they make it harder for legit players to get a good deal and make it MORE likely that the occasional dolphin gets caught in the net.

 

[chuchu59]

When you create an online casino account, you agree to be bound by whatever conditions they see fit to impose as per the terms and conditions. Further, you agree that the casino will have the final say.

It's got nothing to do with "justice". It's not a court. It's an agreement you enter into with tje casino EVERY time YOU play....so it IS relevant to you playing online....if these terms are so awful and "unjust" and they just "steal" people's money, why WOULD you play? It doesn't say much for the strength of your argument when you go along with it all BY CHOICE.

In the vast majority of cases, someone is trying to "steal" money from the casino by either fake ID or breaking clearly stated bonus terms. Funny how in 15 years I've never once had winnings confiscated, and many people I know are the same. I wonder why that is? I guess I'm just lucky it hasn't been my turn to be "robbed" yet

Fraudsters etc deserve what they get....or don't get more aptly....because they make it harder for legit players to get a good deal and make it MORE likely that the occasional dolphin gets caught in the net.

Nifty,

Cant agree with you here. Whether its a court or not, justice should always be done and in many instances seen to be done. Arent most of us here because Bryan and Max, through the PAB system at least ensures that justice is served on the evidence shown. Otherwise why PAB if the casino can have the final word. If you sign an employment agreement which states that your employer may adjust your income will you have no say if they cut it by 80% as you had signed the agreement. It boils down to a matter of 'reasonableness'.

Nevertheless, I believe that fraudsters do deserve what they get but then we should also guard against the 'fraud' word being used to deprive genuine players of their legitimate winnings. In this respect, Go Wild does not exactly have a stellar reputation.

 

[thelawnet]

When you create an online casino account, you agree to be bound by whatever conditions they see fit to impose as per the terms and conditions. Further, you agree that the casino will have the final say.

I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish and you should be ashamed.

At least in the United Kingdom, when you enter into a contract with any organisation, you agree to abide by the terms, so far as they are not unfair (and this has a legal definition) or unclear, and you do so in the knowledge that in the event of a dispute, the casino does NOT have the final say, that's what the legal system is for.

And of course in fact the burden of proof is on the casino.

Now of course in practice it can be difficult or expensive to pursue the casino that decides it doesn't want to pay. But that's not to say you shouldn't pursue them.

I have no particular thoughts on the present case, but the idea that the casino has the final say is just wrong. Even the casinos go to the pretence of offering appeals to quasi-independent 'regulators', but ultimately the courts are the proper venue to resolve these things.

 

[chuchu59]

I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish and you should be ashamed.

At least in the United Kingdom, when you enter into a contract with any organisation, you agree to abide by the terms, so far as they are not unfair (and this has a legal definition) or unclear, and you do so in the knowledge that in the event of a dispute, the casino does NOT have the final say, that's what the legal system is for.

And of course in fact the burden of proof is on the casino.

Now of course in practice it can be difficult or expensive to pursue the casino that decides it doesn't want to pay. But that's not to say you shouldn't pursue them.

I have no particular thoughts on the present case, but the idea that the casino has the final say is just wrong. Even the casinos go to the pretence of offering appeals to quasi-independent 'regulators', but ultimately the courts are the proper venue to resolve these things.

I will 'rubbish' what you said lawnet. Everyone can cite his/her own point of view. I share your view but that is because I have lived in Hong Kong since I was born and we operate mostly under the English legal system. I must say I like this system because of two things ie 'equity' and 'test of reasonableness' Otherwise, we might as well abide by the Common Law and be back to the Medieval Ages.

 

[butterflyboogie]

question

I have a question and please don't beat me up for asking I know most of you guys have been around for a long time here and have gambled online for a long while too and have heard a lot of stories. However with that being said, in so many of the forum topics where a player has came in with a problem it seems that a few have him or her tagged as a "fraudster"...why is this? Just because people in the past may have been shady doesn't mean that every person is. It's like labeling. I guess because I am almost finished with my PhD in Forensic Psychology I have to have information/proof from all sides. I understand that so many of these people are not on the up and up but what about those that are? In the forum some almost immediately start questioning and making comments to the player that is almost presumptious of the person being wrong. It's only fair to say that casinos ate made up of normal people just like all of us and mistakes can be made. My point to this....regardless of rules and regulations set up by casinos, certain criterion should be mandatory before any funds could be seized, and even in the event of seizure, arbitration should be available for the protection of all parties on both sides. This is just my opinion of course. Since Brian has this mobile ap for my phone I have posted more than I ever have because of the simplicity and it's at my fingertips...love it Anyway, just voicing my thoughts.

 

[Seventh777]

I have a question and please don't beat me up for asking I know most of you guys have been around for a long time here and have gambled online for a long while too and have heard a lot of stories. However with that being said, in so many of the forum topics where a player has came in with a problem it seems that a few have him or her tagged as a "fraudster"...why is this? Just because people in the past may have been shady doesn't mean that every person is. It's like labeling. I guess because I am almost finished with my PhD in Forensic Psychology I have to have information/proof from all sides. I understand that so many of these people are not on the up and up but what about those that are? In the forum some almost immediately start questioning and making comments to the player that is almost presumptious of the person being wrong. It's only fair to say that casinos ate made up of normal people just like all of us and mistakes can be made. My point to this....regardless of rules and regulations set up by casinos, certain criterion should be mandatory before any funds could be seized, and even in the event of seizure, arbitration should be available for the protection of all parties on both sides. This is just my opinion of course. Since Brian has this mobile ap for my phone I have posted more than I ever have because of the simplicity and it's at my fingertips...love it Anyway, just voicing my thoughts.

Well, as you will be more than aware of hun it`s down to their initial posts and evidence they provide (or in most cases - lack of), here we have the initial post and iirc I was 1st to reply, I stated contact Gia and if this did not resolve the issue then PAB, the OP contacted Gia and she replied stating that fraudulent behaviour was discovered, Bryan had seen the evidence of this and his 1st reaction was to ban the OP, he has now overruled this decision to give the OP a chance to PAB.

As far as tagging people as fraudsters go I have yet to see a player be found not guilty once the casino has pulled the multi accounting card, and remember, early evidence privy to Bryan was enough for him to ban the OP, so it is suffice to say this evidence was not just based on the casino`s hearsay.

We`ll have to wait and see how it unfolds .

 

[Nifty29]

I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish and you should be ashamed.

At least in the United Kingdom, when you enter into a contract with any organisation, you agree to abide by the terms, so far as they are not unfair (and this has a legal definition) or unclear, and you do so in the knowledge that in the event of a dispute, the casino does NOT have the final say, that's what the legal system is for.

And of course in fact the burden of proof is on the casino.

Now of course in practice it can be difficult or expensive to pursue the casino that decides it doesn't want to pay. But that's not to say you shouldn't pursue them.

I have no particular thoughts on the present case, but the idea that the casino has the final say is just wrong. Even the casinos go to the pretence of offering appeals to quasi-independent 'regulators', but ultimately the courts are the proper venue to resolve these things.

Why would or should I be ashamed of stating facts and my view of those facts?

I'm sorry, but you DO agree to the terms of use when signing up. It's in black and white. I'm not saying they're great or that they should exist as they are, but they DO.

We can bang about English law or tribal law or whatever until the cows come home, but the fact remains that if you don't like the terms of a contract then don't sign it. We're not talking about essential services here.....its an online casino. You are not forced to accept anything.

There are many terms that I find distasteful, and I avoid some casinos as a result. I also know that if a casino doesn't want to pay, I have no practical legal options available to me as most casinos are bound by laws other than the UK. No PRACTICAL legal options. Hence, the whole legal debate is moot. Unless you have successfully tested such a case in court, then I submit that my opinion is as valid as yours or anyone else's.

 

[LaHutti]

Why would or should I be ashamed of stating facts and my view of those facts?

I'm sorry, but you DO agree to the terms of use when signing up. It's in black and white. I'm not saying they're great or that they should exist as they are, but they DO.

We can bang about English law or tribal law or whatever until the cows come home, but the fact remains that if you don't like the terms of a contract then don't sign it. We're not talking about essential services here.....its an online casino. You are not forced to accept anything.

There are many terms that I find distasteful, and I avoid some casinos as a result. I also know that if a casino doesn't want to pay, I have no practical legal options available to me as most casinos are bound by laws other than the UK. No PRACTICAL legal options. Hence, the whole legal debate is moot. Unless you have successfully tested such a case in court, then I submit that my opinion is as valid as yours or anyone else's.

Excactly my point. Wild West.
How the hell can this be acceptable to anyone, anywhere ?
Seems like we should be greatful for the US to take the lead in fighting this.

 

[The Dude]

Well, I've emailed this player twice - requesting him to PAB (after he asked if he still could), and so far - nada.

So I'm still waiting for him to respond.

So in essence, the casino is taking the players money, and the player now has to prove, that he did not commit fraud, instead of the casino having to prove that he did. Isn't that just wonderful. ?
It sure tickles me, in the place where I keep my sense of justice.

The casino has evidence that this player has multiple accounts. I'm not just acting on a whim here.

...
I'm sorry, but however much I respect the work Bryan and Max are doing, they have no legal status, and it should NOT be determined by people running a website, and the casino in question, whether said casino should be allowed to steal peoples money...

This is my website. When people sign up in the forum they agree to our rules. We also have policies that address these issues as well. Player fraud is specifically mentioned, and I have the right to close any account of a player who commits fraud. This is strictly by my discretion - I have the last say in this. Players have a number of options besides this website to pursue whatever they are trying to accomplish. And I'll give these people contact information - or whatever info they need to get their "winnings".

I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish and you should be ashamed.

Please refrain from calling other members opinions "rubbish". That's flaming - please don't do it. Thank you.

Let's try to keep the conversation a bit mellower. Some of you are getting a bit too riled up over the matter. Thanks!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Why would or should I be ashamed of stating facts and my view of those facts?

I'm sorry, but you DO agree to the terms of use when signing up. It's in black and white. I'm not saying they're great or that they should exist as they are, but they DO.

We can bang about English law or tribal law or whatever until the cows come home, but the fact remains that if you don't like the terms of a contract then don't sign it. We're not talking about essential services here.....its an online casino. You are not forced to accept anything.

There are many terms that I find distasteful, and I avoid some casinos as a result. I also know that if a casino doesn't want to pay, I have no practical legal options available to me as most casinos are bound by laws other than the UK. No PRACTICAL legal options. Hence, the whole legal debate is moot. Unless you have successfully tested such a case in court, then I submit that my opinion is as valid as yours or anyone else's.

This is the big problem. Casinos structure themselves so as to make legal action by a player almost impossible. This of course works both ways, any threats by a casino to take a player to court over something can be dismissed as a bluff, usually designed to frighten the player into returning what the casino considers was a cashout obtained "unlawfully". Even if a casino went ahead, it is a high risk strategy as they are likely to lose, and will have to reveal their "secret procedures" and evidence in open court for all to see. To be effective, they would have to take players to court on the player's home turf, else they will have no means to enforce a judgment in their favour.

 

[krino]

Yesterday I got banned 5 minutes before I wanted to make a lengthy post in reacton on Gia Gowild accusations. I sent this post as a mail to the Casinomeister and he has allowed me to submit a PAB which I am very grateful for.

I want to share this post with the Casinomeister community as well because I realise that when I submit my PAB I will not be allowed to post about this on the forum anymore, while there are still a few facts I want to set straight.

Please consider that the post to Gia down below is now outdated because it was ment to be posted yesterday. I will send my PAB in today already.

Hi Gia,

I do not believe you found matching info from other registered accounts. It is impossible since nobody besides me has ever played from my computer or my internet. So please come forward with what info matches my account details and proof it. I know 100% sure you will not be able to do that.

You are saying that there are people who made the same deposit and same betsize as me. I do not see what makes that strange. I just deposited the maximum for the first deposit bonus and I played one of the most populair Microgaming slots there is (Avalon) with a 10% of bonus betsize.

I always do this at Microgaming casinos and I can also proof that I always do this. Avalon is my favorite slot and I used to play it every time untill you stole my money. Now I am a little scared to play slots because if I win big the casino might not pay.

I have also asked my two friends who earlier played at your casino what game they played and they both told me they did not even played Avalon!

So the so called linked accounts you are talking about are not my friends. If it are not my friends then I do not even know who you are talking about, but I do know one thing > it is impossible I share any matching info with them.

I also find it pretty strange that I have never had any trouble playing this slot with the 10% bonus betsize at other Microgaming casinos. If there were really so many accounts who played exactly the same as me wouldn’t another Microgaming casino already made a problem for me?

To be honest, I think this whole story you tell me now (and not in your first mail) about accounts who are using the same game, deposit and betsize is just another excuse to not pay me, because you already know your other arguments about the matching info will not hold up.

I want to explain one other thing. GoWild is making me out to do all kinds of transfers with all kinds of people through Skrill, but this is completely untrue. I have made, ever since I opened my Moneybookers account in 2007, transfers to 5 different people > 3 of my best friends, my sister and my best friends sister. In the last few years I have made only 1 transaction with my best friend. I do not see how transferring money with these people can make me suspect of fraud since this is exactly were the transfer option is ment for > to transfer money to family and friends.

I would ike to see some proof of the accusations you are making about me Gia. I will still wait on a reaction today and tomorrow I will submit my PAB and then you can show the proof (which I know you do not have) to the Casinomeister.

I am more then willing to put all my cards on the table and answer or do everything necessary for the Casinomeister community to proof I have no matching info or link to accounts who played the same game, deposit and betsize as me. The only link I have to players from other GoWild accounts are those of my 2 best friends and I feel that is normal.

 

[The Dude]

Thanks for the PAB

As per the PAB FAQ - I wouldn't discuss it any further on the public fora - thanks!

 

[hakapuku]

Why would you need to mention the same t-shirt color for identifying a potential suspect when you have a high definition video clearly showing that suspect's face while him commiting a crime? IMHO if Go Wild had something serious against this player ( like same hardware used by a group of gamblers etc) they would never use a ridiculous argument about the same deposit amount, same bet size and same slot played by different players. Deposits and bet size are in most cases predefined by bonus requirements!

 

[chuchu59]

How about temporarily closing the thread Bryan. Preemptive action ya know.

 

[Steve Russo]

Card counting is not illegal, even in Vegas, but if spotted, casinos can use their right to refuse admission.

That is correct, but unlike on line casinos, Vegas casinos do not invalidate bets that they have accepted. If I am caught card counting in Vegas, I will be allowed to cash in all the chips I have won and then be banned from the property. (Future winnings, which would require me to trespass, would not be legal.)

I have seen numerous "violations" of various casinos' T&Cs which could easily have been prevented if the casinos wanted their software to do so. Just for one example -- the violation where a player bets too high of a percentage of his bonus on a single wager. There truly would be no problem for casino software providers to program in a limit which would make this impossible.

Casinos, however, do not want to stop T&C violations. They prefer to allow them to happen and then to refuse to pay off (or, in the worst cases, also confiscate the players' deposits). This establishes a situation where the player can lose but he cannot win. If I go to Vegas and guarantee the casino that I will pay my losses but if I win I will not collect my winnings, the casino will be happy to comp me for the best room it has.

 

[The Dude]

How about temporarily closing the thread Bryan. Preemptive action ya know.

Done.

 

[The Dude]

Okay, we have enough information from the casino to know that we are dealing with a multi-account fraudster.

@krino - if you truly want to beat the casinos, don't use bonuses and don't make up bogus accounts. You'll get caught out. Bye.

 

[Seventh777]

Okay, we have enough information from the casino to know that we are dealing with a multi-account fraudster.

@krino - if you truly want to beat the casinos, don't use bonuses and don't make up bogus accounts. You'll get caught out. Bye.

Now, there`s a surprise .

Once again, good work guys .