krino VS GoWild

krino

Banned User - bogus PAB - player fraud
A few weeks ago I won 6500 euro (+200 deposit which they returned) at the GoWild casino with the first deposit bonus. I played the slots and was very lucky, because I won this money with just a 20 euro bet.

As you can imagine I was very happy and anxious to wait for the money to arrive. After one day I had not received mail from GoWild, which I thought was strange because of the size of my win, so I uploaded copies of my identification papers to their finance office. They were very slow to give response and when they finally did they sent me this mail >

Hello XXXX,
We hope this email finds you well.
We would like to inform you that during the standard account review procedure, our Department detected that your account was registered using matching info in other accounts.
According to our Casino Policy, only one account is permitted per person, household, IP address or shared computer environment.
Due to the fact that this term has been violated, your account is permanently locked. Your deposit is refunded to your Skrill account and any amount remaining in the account will be void.
In addition, it was brought to our attention by our processing company that there are links between you and other registered accounts.
Please note that this matter will be reported to all relevant departments.

It is simply impossible that I used matching info from other accounts. So I sent a mail for them to clear everything >

Hi,
The email absolutely did not find me well. This is outrageous. I have won that money fair and square and I have not broken any of your terms and conditions. This must be one of the biggest disappointments in my life.
I am sure you have made a mistake. It is impossible that I used matching info from other accounts. I am the only one who stays in this house and I bought it so it is in my name. I also am the only user of my computer and internet connection and it is protected with several levels of security.
There are only 2 persons I know from who I am sure that they play at your casino because they recommended it to me. They are my best friends. I know them since I was young. I do not see in your terms and conditions that it is forbidden to have a few friends who play at the same casino as I do.
My account could very well have links to their accounts by Skrill because we were doing transfers with Moneybookers already in 2007. We all play poker, sportsbook and casinos and we have made transfers to each other all these years and it has never been a problem.
Can you please reconsider your decision, because I feel that I have done absolutely nothing wrong and you are only doing this because I won so much money.
I also want to inform you that if you do not payout the amount of 6700 euro that I won fair and square in your casino I will complain about what you did to me at your software provider, your license provider, all public gambling forums that I am aware of to make sure that everybody knows that you stole my money.
I really hope that this is a honest mistake from your side and that you will take another look at this and process the payout of 6700 euro, because I am the only one in this house who has ever played at your casino and I have not broken any of your terms and conditions.
I hope you reply quick this time.
Regards,
XXXX

Since then they have been ignoring my mail, while I am willing to be completely open about everything they want to know and to provide them with all the necessary information to confirm that I am the only one in the house who ever played at their casino.

Now I feel that I have no other choice to come out in the open with what they have done. I was under the impression that GoWild was accredited at Casinomeister when I won the money, but I saw that has changed some while ago so that sucks.

I will be contacting Microgaming and the license provider in Malta in the coming days with a link to this post. If there is in the mean time anyone who has advice for me what I can do more, besides the legal route which will no doubt be very expensive, I would be very thankful. I have never ever won so much money in my life and now that I do GoWild steals it!:mad:
 

Seventh777

RIP Roy
Firstly I would contact one of the reps from here, Gia would probably be the best, if this does not resolve your problem then try a PAB, if you do file a PAB do not post anymore regarding this matter.

Hope this helps.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Well they are hardly going to keep dealing with you when you use threats and blackmail. In my experience, these are the tactics that fraudsters use to force casinos to pay. You will find that, if this is the case, you will be exposed very quickly and be placed on an anti-fraud database and find many casinos will not take your action.

In the event that you are totally legit, then contact the rep as advised, and if you have not received a response within 48 hrs or you're unhappy with the response you do receive, then visit the following link to submit a complaint:

http://www.casinomeister.com/problems.php

Remember that ALL evidence will be made available to Max and CM so keep that in mind before you proceed.
 

maphesto

Dormant account
My own guess ist that GoWild have seen a shared IP. If a player uses a friends computer, or uses same home network, the casino recognizes the IP as another players info. From GoWilds T&C:S

5.3 Your membership or subscription is personal to you and you may not transfer or make available your account name and password to others and you may not use anyone else’s account at any time.

5.6 GoWild reserves the right to cancel your account without refund if it becomes aware that you have disclosed your account details and password to a third party.


It´s hard to believe that GoWild gather info from Skrill in every single case. They recognized something, otherwise they never would have checked with Skrill. If they find shared IP, they can easily think that it´s the same player who finds new ways to use the fine welcome bonus.

To OP! If you used a friends computer, or network, be honest when (if) you send your PAB. You probably don´t wan´t to respond to this thread more now, but this was my guess. And don´t threat the casino more, they have seen that kind of behaviour too many times before.
 

HadEnouth

Dormant account
What I will never understand is why casinos let people sign up on the same ip, They never say nothing when you lose, but soon as you win. BYE BYE.

I know this can be programmed in casino software at registering. There is some playtech casinos if you try to register again from Same ip, It says sorry, It seems you already got a account.

Far as I am concerned casinos let this happen because it is a win win for them no matter what. Deserves people right that try to defraud a casino, But alot of inncent people do get caught up on this, and that is my problem about the whole thing. As I travel sometimes and stay at friends houses and stuff. Ive sometimes logged into my casino accounts from another persons house when I stayed over, Does that make me a fraudster, hell no. Does it make the person at that house a fraudster if later he opens a account there and plays, No.

It should be one account per person (proper id checks would prevent fraud), It should never be one account per ip address. More than One person tends to live in a house.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
What I will never understand is why casinos let people sign up on the same ip, They never say nothing when you lose, but soon as you win. BYE BYE.

I know this can be programmed in casino software at registering. There is some playtech casinos if you try to register again from Same ip, It says sorry, It seems you already got a account.

Far as I am concerned casinos let this happen because it is a win win for them no matter what. Deserves people right that try to defraud a casino, But alot of inncent people do get caught up on this, and that is my problem about the whole thing. As I travel sometimes and stay at friends houses and stuff. Ive sometimes logged into my casino accounts from another persons house when I stayed over, Does that make me a fraudster, hell no. Does it make the person at that house a fraudster if later he opens a account there and plays, No.

It should be one account per person (proper id checks would prevent fraud), It should never be one account per ip address. More than One person tends to live in a house.
The problem is that fraudsters will signup multiple accounts to claim free chips until they win, and then have fake or someone else's ID ready to claim the winnings.

If there weren't so many dishonest people around, rules like these wouldn't be needed.

It is seldom that a totally innocent player gets caught in this net, and most examples I've seen have been resolved by higher management. 99.9% of people caught by this rule know exactly what they're doing.

It's not difficult....just ask everyone else in the house if they have an account. If they do, and tell you they don't, its your problem not the casinos. If you play your account at a friends house, it should not preclude them from registering as you did not register the account from that IP. Alternatively, don't play on someone else's computer.
 

Realitybitez

Registered
What I will never understand is why casinos let people sign up on the same ip, They never say nothing when you lose, but soon as you win. BYE BYE.

I know this can be programmed in casino software at registering. There is some playtech casinos if you try to register again from Same ip, It says sorry, It seems you already got a account.

Far as I am concerned casinos let this happen because it is a win win for them no matter what. Deserves people right that try to defraud a casino, But alot of inncent people do get caught up on this, and that is my problem about the whole thing. As I travel sometimes and stay at friends houses and stuff. Ive sometimes logged into my casino accounts from another persons house when I stayed over, Does that make me a fraudster, hell no. Does it make the person at that house a fraudster if later he opens a account there and plays, No.

It should be one account per person (proper id checks would prevent fraud), It should never be one account per ip address. More than One person tends to live in a house.

I was just wondering about that. If Im at a friends house. They have my casino installed on their computer, they also have an account with this casino, but I sign in using my account, would I, then be had up for fraud? Would they also then be had up for fraud? Aye?:confused: How does that work?:confused:

And I have to agreed: It should be one account per person (proper id checks would prevent fraud), It should never be one account per ip address. More than One person tends to live in a house.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
I was just wondering about that. If Im at a friends house. They have my casino installed on their computer, they also have an account with this casino, but I sign in using my account, would I, then be had up for fraud? Would they also then be had up for fraud? Aye?:confused: How does that work?:confused:

And I have to agreed: It should be one account per person (proper id checks would prevent fraud), It should never be one account per ip address. More than One person tends to live in a house.
Some casinos will allow you to play on someone elses computer, even if they have an account. But to prevent being accused and to make sure all is clear, all you have to do is to confirm it with the casino first.
They won't all allow it so be careful, and be sure you have it in writing.
 

Gia - GoWild

Official Rep for GoWild
A few weeks ago I won 6500 euro (+200 deposit which they returned) at the GoWild casino with the first deposit bonus. I played the slots and was very lucky, because I won this money with just a 20 euro bet.

As you can imagine I was very happy and anxious to wait for the money to arrive. After one day I had not received mail from GoWild, which I thought was strange because of the size of my win, so I uploaded copies of my identification papers to their finance office. They were very slow to give response and when they finally did they sent me this mail >

Hello XXXX,
We hope this email finds you well.
We would like to inform you that during the standard account review procedure, our Department detected that your account was registered using matching info in other accounts.
According to our Casino Policy, only one account is permitted per person, household, IP address or shared computer environment.
Due to the fact that this term has been violated, your account is permanently locked. Your deposit is refunded to your Skrill account and any amount remaining in the account will be void.
In addition, it was brought to our attention by our processing company that there are links between you and other registered accounts.
Please note that this matter will be reported to all relevant departments.

It is simply impossible that I used matching info from other accounts. So I sent a mail for them to clear everything >

Hi,
The email absolutely did not find me well. This is outrageous. I have won that money fair and square and I have not broken any of your terms and conditions. This must be one of the biggest disappointments in my life.
I am sure you have made a mistake. It is impossible that I used matching info from other accounts. I am the only one who stays in this house and I bought it so it is in my name. I also am the only user of my computer and internet connection and it is protected with several levels of security.
There are only 2 persons I know from who I am sure that they play at your casino because they recommended it to me. They are my best friends. I know them since I was young. I do not see in your terms and conditions that it is forbidden to have a few friends who play at the same casino as I do.
My account could very well have links to their accounts by Skrill because we were doing transfers with Moneybookers already in 2007. We all play poker, sportsbook and casinos and we have made transfers to each other all these years and it has never been a problem.
Can you please reconsider your decision, because I feel that I have done absolutely nothing wrong and you are only doing this because I won so much money.
I also want to inform you that if you do not payout the amount of 6700 euro that I won fair and square in your casino I will complain about what you did to me at your software provider, your license provider, all public gambling forums that I am aware of to make sure that everybody knows that you stole my money.
I really hope that this is a honest mistake from your side and that you will take another look at this and process the payout of 6700 euro, because I am the only one in this house who has ever played at your casino and I have not broken any of your terms and conditions.
I hope you reply quick this time.
Regards,
XXXX

Since then they have been ignoring my mail, while I am willing to be completely open about everything they want to know and to provide them with all the necessary information to confirm that I am the only one in the house who ever played at their casino.

Now I feel that I have no other choice to come out in the open with what they have done. I was under the impression that GoWild was accredited at Casinomeister when I won the money, but I saw that has changed some while ago so that sucks.

I will be contacting Microgaming and the license provider in Malta in the coming days with a link to this post. If there is in the mean time anyone who has advice for me what I can do more, besides the legal route which will no doubt be very expensive, I would be very thankful. I have never ever won so much money in my life and now that I do GoWild steals it!:mad:
Hi Krino,

I've just verified with our Fraud department regarding your case.

As mentioned by our fraud department, during a verification of your account, we've detected not only matching info with other registered accounts but also recognized the same betting pattern, deposit amounts and the game they all played.

All linked accounts played the same game, using the same bet size, deposited the same amount and shared identical betting pattern.

For all the above reasons, we've contacted our processing company to further investigate this case. As stated in the email from Finance department, it was brought to our attention there are also links between you and other registered accounts by our processors.

With this in mind, all related accounts have been permanently closed, your deposit was refunded to your Skrill account any additional credits have been voided. This matter has been reported to all related departments, as per our user terms and conditions policy.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
A single IP address doesn't even "live" in the same house, it moves around as the ISP allocates them as subscribers switch on their internet each day, and even where users leave it switched on, IP addresses are "refreshed" regularly, and during this process can change.

The things that are specific to houses are MAC and email addresses. You would have to be a daft fraudster to use the same email address for multiple accounts, but many use the same computer or network, but give false details for each account (usually those of a friend willing to stump up the documents should the account be a winner).

Registration records much of this additional information, so "matching details" between accounts is not necessarily the information provided by the player, but MAC and serial numbers extracted from the hardware on which the casino has been installed. If the same PC, same internet modem/hub, etc are detected for two accounts, but the addresses are different, suspicions will be raised. Even reinstalling the OS between accounts doesn't work.

Once suspicions have been raised, they may then go to their processor, even Skrill, for additional evidence.
It is unwise to use your casino gambling eWallet for your peer to peer transfers. Even when these are innocent, it looks very suspicious (like the financial inner workings of a player syndicate).

Complaining to Malta or Microgaming is an even LESS effective method than posting about it in a forum. The advice to contact the rep and/or PAB is the best. If they have the eCogra seal, a complaint can be made to eCogra as an alternative to a PAB.

Legal action is a LAST resort, and even for €6500 the costs may well outweigh the benefits.
 

maphesto

Dormant account
we've detected not only matching info with other registered accounts but also recognized the same betting pattern, deposit amounts and the game they all played.
Just curious, what was the matching info? Was it mac address or IP address? Same City?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
Hi Krino,

I've just verified with our Fraud department regarding your case.

As mentioned by our fraud department, during a verification of your account, we've detected not only matching info with other registered accounts but also recognized the same betting pattern, deposit amounts and the game they all played.

All linked accounts played the same game, using the same bet size, deposited the same amount and shared identical betting pattern.

For all the above reasons, we've contacted our processing company to further investigate this case. As stated in the email from Finance department, it was brought to our attention there are also links between you and other registered accounts by our processors.

With this in mind, all related accounts have been permanently closed, your deposit was refunded to your Skrill account any additional credits have been voided. This matter has been reported to all related departments, as per our user terms and conditions policy.
This can also have an innocent explanation.

The deposit amount is governed by the welcome offer, hence new players (if they have the funds) are going to deposit what is needed to get the biggest bonus.

Games and betting patterns matching could just indicate a "serving suggestion" found on an affiliate forum as how to get the best from the bonus. There are numerous affiliates who advertise on the basis of mechanically recovering the best withdrawal amount from whatever bonus is on offer. These specify in some detail the best game to play, what pattern to use, and what betsize to use. Unconnected players will be playing the same pattern because their aim is to win and move on, and although not desired by the casino, it is not against the terms to try and win. If affiliates are marketing the casino on the basis of "bonus whoring" advice, the casino could decide to terminate their contract for bringing in the wrong kind of traffic, but they don't - the sit back and confiscate winnings from individual players, but dare not p1$$ off the affiliate bringing them in.

On the subject of breaches of terms and conditions...

I couldn't help but notice your signature.................
 

Seventh777

RIP Roy
Just curious, what was the matching info? Was it mac address or IP address? Same City?
Every single part of your hardware carries a unique ID code, also VWM is slightly wrong with his IP analysis (he only described Dynamic IP`s), there are basically 2 forms of IP`s -Static and Dynamic, these both have leases, a Static IP address has a far longer lease and in most cases when this lease expires you are still allotted the same IP again (unless you release it just prior to it`s expiry date, and don`t renew it for a good few hours afterwards). Dynamic IP`s renew each time you boot your PC, they can however change whilst you are online, and are sometimes the cause of annoying disconnections when playing.

There are certain other aspects as well that are picked up on security sweeps - Your OS, Browser, Various software`s installed.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
Every single part of your hardware carries a unique ID code, also VWM is slightly wrong with his IP analysis (he only described Dynamic IP`s), there are basically 2 forms of IP`s -Static and Dynamic, these both have leases, a Static IP address has a far longer lease and in most cases when this lease expires you are still allotted the same IP again (unless you release it just prior to it`s expiry date, and don`t renew it for a good few hours afterwards). Dynamic IP`s renew each time you boot your PC, they can however change whilst you are online, and are sometimes the cause of annoying disconnections when playing.

There are certain other aspects as well that are picked up on security sweeps - Your OS, Browser, Various software`s installed.
I left out static IP because it is not something most home users get. This is because there are not enough IP addresses available in the current standard, so the switch to dynamic IP addresses has been made by almost all ISPs. Static IP addresses are available by request, but cost more as they are no longer available for dynamic allocation to other customers, with the risk that an ISP will run out of IP addresses under heavy load and not be able to serve it's customers.

NTL used to offer static IP addresses for the cable connection, but this switched to dynamic long before Virgin took over.

The new standard, when fully implemented globally, will solve the problem, and every customer and every device will be able to have it's own unique static IP address. The hold up is that not everything is compatible with this new standard, so it cannot be rolled out.

Computers and other devices CAN be uniquely identified, and there is no need to worry about IP addresses. A casino can tell for CERTAIN whether the same computer has been used for more than one account, so if a player lies about it, the casino is then even MORE suspicious than before.

The OP's email seems to defend every possible "charge" the casino might produce evidence for, and it's detail itself is "suspicious". Bringing up Skrill transfers from 2007 could be an attempt to divert attention from the REAL "gotcha" that the casino has discovered. Such a reply can only come from an experienced and well educated player. I had no idea whatsoever that transfers in Neteller could have any bearing on deposits, play, and verification at a casino. I learned about this by reading the forums.

The OP knows so much about this aspect, yet seems very naive about the best way to make a complaint.

It looks like a correct bust by GoWild, but the OP can still PAB if they think this is all "circumstantial", and they are an innocent victim of the multi account detection systems.
 

Seventh777

RIP Roy
I left out static IP because it is not something most home users get. This is because there are not enough IP addresses available in the current standard, so the switch to dynamic IP addresses has been made by almost all ISPs. Static IP addresses are available by request, but cost more as they are no longer available for dynamic allocation to other customers, with the risk that an ISP will run out of IP addresses under heavy load and not be able to serve it's customers.

NTL used to offer static IP addresses for the cable connection, but this switched to dynamic long before Virgin took over.

The new standard, when fully implemented globally, will solve the problem, and every customer and every device will be able to have it's own unique static IP address. The hold up is that not everything is compatible with this new standard, so it cannot be rolled out.

Computers and other devices CAN be uniquely identified, and there is no need to worry about IP addresses. A casino can tell for CERTAIN whether the same computer has been used for more than one account, so if a player lies about it, the casino is then even MORE suspicious than before.

The OP's email seems to defend every possible "charge" the casino might produce evidence for, and it's detail itself is "suspicious". Bringing up Skrill transfers from 2007 could be an attempt to divert attention from the REAL "gotcha" that the casino has discovered. Such a reply can only come from an experienced and well educated player. I had no idea whatsoever that transfers in Neteller could have any bearing on deposits, play, and verification at a casino. I learned about this by reading the forums.

The OP knows so much about this aspect, yet seems very naive about the best way to make a complaint.

It looks like a correct bust by GoWild, but the OP can still PAB if they think this is all "circumstantial", and they are an innocent victim of the multi account detection systems.
I just had a quick look at my ipconfig to check my IP lease time, it appears that mine has changed from Static to Dynamic it had been static for years........

IP.jpg

As you can see it is only an hourly lease, I will check after this hour to see if I keep the same IP.

@Neteller and linking accounts, as you may be aware of you can start a basic Neteller account easy and quickly without any need for verification (verifications only upgrade the account created), and you can create accounts using the same PC with NP`s, I would pretty much guarantee that these fraudsters have one main account that is verified and an e-card has been issued, start accounts with friends/relatives details load these accounts and deposit using them, withdraw to them and transfer winnings to the main account.

As Neteller have no qualms in assisting casinos tracking these fraudsters they could help them immensely by restricting accounts to one per household, this reminds me of a statement many years ago by the then American President (Carter or Reagan iirc), whilst talking about the UK`s problem with the IRA and I quote `How can we help you guys with this problem?`, my instantaneous response was - To stop helping fund them, would be a great start (NOR-AID collection boxes placed at many establishments including McDonalds).
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
I just had a quick look at my ipconfig to check my IP lease time, it appears that mine has changed from Static to Dynamic it had been static for years........

View attachment 31967

As you can see it is only an hourly lease, I will check after this hour to see if I keep the same IP.

@Neteller and linking accounts, as you may be aware of you can start a basic Neteller account easy and quickly without any need for verification (verifications only upgrade the account created), and you can create accounts using the same PC with NP`s, I would pretty much guarantee that these fraudsters have one main account that is verified and an e-card has been issued, start accounts with friends/relatives details load these accounts and deposit using them, withdraw to them and transfer winnings to the main account.

As Neteller have no qualms in assisting casinos tracking these fraudsters they could help them immensely by restricting accounts to one per household, this reminds me of a statement many years ago by the then American President (Carter or Reagan iirc), whilst talking about the UK`s problem with the IRA and I quote `How can we help you guys with this problem?`, my instantaneous response was - To stop helping fund them, would be a great start (NOR-AID collection boxes placed at many establishments including McDonalds).
This would be a problem for Neteller, as they would then have to accept that all members of a household use the same Neteller account. I thought only verified accounts could use peer to peer transfers, and that this was implemented to prevent basic satellite accounts from being used in this manner, whether or not for online gambling.
 

Seventh777

RIP Roy
This would be a problem for Neteller, as they would then have to accept that all members of a household use the same Neteller account. I thought only verified accounts could use peer to peer transfers, and that this was implemented to prevent basic satellite accounts from being used in this manner, whether or not for online gambling.
I`m pretty sure you can use peer to peer transfers with some basic verification, as far as using different accounts from the same household this could be easily cured by creating accounts at an alternative place 1st, which again just opens doors for these fraudsters, what ever way you look at it, it`s a nightmare for casinos in combating multi account based fraudsters.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
@ Mods: Was the OP banned from the forum purely based on what Go Wild posted - or do you have additional information?
It seemed very quick & harsh from what I've read.

Also, does being banned from the forum prevent the player from submitting a PAB?

I agree with what VWM said (below) - based on what has been written so far, this player COULD be just another "advantage player" and not any type of fraudster.
I would like to think that CM gives players the "benefit of the doubt" until conclusive proof is obtained...


This can also have an innocent explanation.

The deposit amount is governed by the welcome offer, hence new players (if they have the funds) are going to deposit what is needed to get the biggest bonus.

Games and betting patterns matching could just indicate a "serving suggestion" found on an affiliate forum as how to get the best from the bonus. There are numerous affiliates who advertise on the basis of mechanically recovering the best withdrawal amount from whatever bonus is on offer. These specify in some detail the best game to play, what pattern to use, and what betsize to use. Unconnected players will be playing the same pattern because their aim is to win and move on, and although not desired by the casino, it is not against the terms to try and win. If affiliates are marketing the casino on the basis of "bonus whoring" advice, the casino could decide to terminate their contract for bringing in the wrong kind of traffic, but they don't - the sit back and confiscate winnings from individual players, but dare not p1$$ off the affiliate bringing them in.
KK
 

Seventh777

RIP Roy
@ Mods: Was the OP banned from the forum purely based on what Go Wild posted - or do you have additional information?
It seemed very quick & harsh from what I've read.

Does being banned prevent the player from submitting a PAB?

I agree with what VWM said (below) - based on what has been written so far, this player COULD be just another "advantage player" and not any type of fraudster.
I would like to think that CM gives players the "benefit of the doubt" until conclusive proof is obtained...




KK
Bryan, Max and co are privy to information that we are not, if the player has been banned due to this privy info i`m pretty confident that their actions were justified ;).
 
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