K8 casino

Moom

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Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
I have seen people on this forum complain the new regulations are causing casinos to leave the UK market. Not sure I understand this at all. If a casino can not handle more regulations, good riddance. There are still plenty who will follow regulations, and many who go above and beyond. Why support poor casinos that do not want to follow regulations that protect problem gamblers?
 

paul7388

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Jan 8, 2014
Location
glasgow scotland
I have seen people on this forum complain the new regulations are causing casinos to leave the UK market. Not sure I understand this at all. If a casino can not handle more regulations, good riddance. There are still plenty who will follow regulations, and many who go above and beyond. Why support poor casinos that do not want to follow regulations that protect problem gamblers?

A lot of these casinos leaving are not poor casinos. And many leaving has nothing whatsoever to do with not with not wanting to follow regulations to protect problem gamblers.

It is a competitive market. There are so many casinos and with the taxes etc. they are having to pay to the UK Government and the changing of Regulations from UGKC all the time a lot of these casinos are finding it is not worth the hassle anymore.

Many including the bigger operators are struggling to understand exactly what it is the UKGC are demanding at times and already there are several casinos going overboard with SOW etc. as they think it is needed and also do not want to risk the huge fines the UKGC are handing out.

It is nothing to do with being poor casinos for most it is just not worth the hassle and too costly to keep the uk licence for many. If it keeps up there will be very few casinos left for UK players to choose from.
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
I have seen people on this forum complain the new regulations are causing casinos to leave the UK market. Not sure I understand this at all. If a casino can not handle more regulations, good riddance. There are still plenty who will follow regulations, and many who go above and beyond. Why support poor casinos that do not want to follow regulations that protect problem gamblers?

As far as I agree to a certain extent, while the ukgc continue to make regulations without actually stating how a casino should act, it's bad. Too many taxes are bad. Over regulation is bad.
Bringing in regulations then having no way of customers being able to complain is bad too.
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
A lot of these casinos leaving are not poor casinos. And many leaving has nothing whatsoever to do with not with not wanting to follow regulations to protect problem gamblers.

It is a competitive market. There are so many casinos and with the taxes etc. they are having to pay to the UK Government and the changing of Regulations from UGKC all the time a lot of these casinos are finding it is not worth the hassle anymore.

Many including the bigger operators are struggling to understand exactly what it is the UKGC are demanding at times and already there are several casinos going overboard with SOW etc. as they think it is needed and also do not want to risk the huge fines the UKGC are handing out.

It is nothing to do with being poor casinos for most it is just not worth the hassle and too costly to keep the uk licence for many. If it keeps up there will be very few casinos left for UK players to choose from.

I can tell you K8 is not a good casino from experience. What casinos have left the UK market that you would consider fair and pro consumer? If a casino cannot afford to keep up with the UK market, then it is best they leave. What regulations inparticular do you have an issue with? SOW requests are an important aspect in preventing problem gambling. Why would you be against this? Hassle on for a select few is better than lives of a select few being ruined through gambling. When dealing with the exchange of large amounts of money, this has to happen. This is not exclusive to gambling. Money laundering regulations are similarly strict in other industries, and for good reason. There should not be a tolerance of such behaviour.

But I do agree that the very ambiguous nature of regulations from the UKGC is an issue. More regulations and clarifications are needed.


As far as I agree to a certain extent, while the ukgc continue to make regulations without actually stating how a casino should act, it's bad. Too many taxes are bad. Over regulation is bad.
Bringing in regulations then having no way of customers being able to complain is bad too.

I agree the way regulations are implemented by the UKGC is an issue. All very ambiguous. What exactly is over regulation though? I can think of many things within the online gambling industry that need to be stopped.
 

paul7388

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MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Location
glasgow scotland
I can tell you K8 is not a good casino from experience. What casinos have left the UK market that you would consider fair and pro consumer? If a casino cannot afford to keep up with the UK market, then it is best they leave. What regulations inparticular do you have an issue with? SOW requests are an important aspect in preventing problem gambling. Why would you be against this? Hassle on for a select few is better than lives of a select few being ruined through gambling. When dealing with the exchange of large amounts of money, this has to happen. This is not exclusive to gambling. Money laundering regulations are similarly strict in other industries, and for good reason. There should not be a tolerance of such behaviour.

But I do agree that the very ambiguous nature of regulations from the UKGC is an issue. More regulations and clarifications are needed.




I agree the way regulations are implemented by the UKGC is an issue. All very ambiguous. What exactly is over regulation though? I can think of many things within the online gambling industry that need to be stopped.

Seriously i am not even going to bother trying to answer all those questions . Amazing how you can deduct that i think all that from a simple answer.

But first up i don't even know who the hell k8 casino are let alone give them a glowing reputation.

You know what i won't even waste my time trying to explain the rest as i never even said i have issues with anything. Saw that with your responses in the Stakers thread. Would help if you read peoples replies carefully before going all out on an offensive.
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
Seriously i am not even going to bother trying to answer all those questions . Amazing how you can deduct that i think all that from a simple answer.

But first up i don't even know who the hell k8 casino are let alone give them a glowing reputation.

You know what i won't even waste my time trying to explain the rest as i never even said i have issues with anything. Saw that with your responses in the Stakers thread. Would help if you read peoples replies carefully before going all out on an offensive.

What is this? Why are you so hostile? I apologise if I have offended you. I never said you rate K8 as a casino. I was just giving a off hand comment about my experience with them. I am not sure what I have said to make you so hostile? i agree with some aspects of your post. You act like I have been rude to you or something. I just questioned why you think SOW requests in their current form are bad when they do protect people. You did imply SOW requests are not good with the way they are being used. That is what I questioned.

I don't know what to say to you. You are holding grudges from previous threads and attacking me for no reason. It;s strange behaviour.
 

paul7388

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MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Location
glasgow scotland
" What regulations inparticular do you have an issue with? SOW requests are an important aspect in preventing problem gambling. Why would you be against this? "

Well for a start i have no issues at all. And i never mentioned anything about being against SOW.

Like i originally posted the UKGC guidelines are not clear to casinos. I stated some casinos have not got a clue what is required of them. They are asking for things like SOW when they do not need to as they believe they have to.

Even the bigger operators like VS etc. have been making cutbacks to keep UK customers. Too much Regulation is not necessary a good thing as very soon you will have the big few left and nothing else. When that happens it will drive some people to unregulated casinos which will be even worse for your problem gamblers.

I am not being hostile i just don't see from my post how you got i had issues or was against SOW.
 

paul7388

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MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Location
glasgow scotland
What is this? Why are you so hostile? I apologise if I have offended you. I never said you rate K8 as a casino. I was just giving a off hand comment about my experience with them. I am not sure what I have said to make you so hostile? i agree with some aspects of your post. You act like I have been rude to you or something. I just questioned why you think SOW requests in their current form are bad when they do protect people. You did imply SOW requests are not good with the way they are being used. That is what I questioned.

I don't know what to say to you. You are holding grudges from previous threads and attacking me for no reason. It;s strange behaviour.

Seriously. All i did was give a reason why not all casinos that were leaving were bad ones and the reason why some casinos were leaving.

That was it. None of it my opinion at all.

Then i got the response asking me what Regulations i had a problem with and why was i so against SOW as it is there too help problem gamblers. When i hadn't even mentioned what i thought about any of it.

So i was not meant to say what are you on about when you were quoting me as saying something i never.

I do not hold grudges. I am certainly not attacking you i merely responded to your totally misquoting me. Nothing more nothing less. I will leave you to it.
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
" What regulations inparticular do you have an issue with? SOW requests are an important aspect in preventing problem gambling. Why would you be against this? "

Well for a start i have no issues at all. And i never mentioned anything about being against SOW.

Like i originally posted the UKGC guidelines are not clear to casinos. I stated some casinos have not got a clue what is required of them. They are asking for things like SOW when they do not need to as they believe they have to.

Even the bigger operators like VS etc. have been making cutbacks to keep UK customers. Too much Regulation is not necessary a good thing as very soon you will have the big few left and nothing else. When that happens it will drive some people to unregulated casinos which will be even worse for your problem gamblers.

I am not being hostile i just don't see from my post how you got i had issues or was against SOW.

To be clear, you said:

''It is a competitive market. There are so many casinos and with the taxes etc. they are having to pay to the UK Government and the changing of Regulations from UGKC all the time a lot of these casinos are finding it is not worth the hassle anymore.

Many including the bigger operators are struggling to understand exactly what it is the UKGC are demanding at times and already there are several casinos going overboard with SOW etc. as they think it is needed and also do not want to risk the huge fines the UKGC are handing out. ''

Can you not see why I would think you had an issue with SOW requests? I am of the opinion the UKGC should be very strict on protecting the vulnerable and preventing crime/money laundering. If this means certain casinos have to go overboard sometimes, I have no issue with that. You disagree with that? But you are right, my post does read like I am saying you do not support SOW requests, when I meant different. I thought the context of the discussion would make it obvious that I am talking about how SOW requests are being used. I can see why you would see different, and will try to be more concise in future posts.

I am never for the more regulation will cause people to go unregulated argument. ''If we regulate it, they will go undergrouns''. It is such an extreme argument that has no place in this discussion.


On the above post, you gave your view on why casinos are leaving. Your opinion. We do not have data on this. You offered your opinion and I offered mine. You did not state a fact.

This is a rather pointless argument though. It is going no where so I will drop it.
 

paul7388

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MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Location
glasgow scotland
To be clear, you said:

''It is a competitive market. There are so many casinos and with the taxes etc. they are having to pay to the UK Government and the changing of Regulations from UGKC all the time a lot of these casinos are finding it is not worth the hassle anymore.

Many including the bigger operators are struggling to understand exactly what it is the UKGC are demanding at times and already there are several casinos going overboard with SOW etc. as they think it is needed and also do not want to risk the huge fines the UKGC are handing out. ''

Can you not see why I would think you had an issue with SOW requests? I am of the opinion the UKGC should be very strict on protecting the vulnerable and preventing crime/money laundering. If this means certain casinos have to go overboard sometimes, I have no issue with that. You disagree with that? But you are right, my post does read like I am saying you do not support SOW requests, when I meant different. I thought the context of the discussion would make it obvious that I am talking about how SOW requests are being used. I can see why you would see different, and will try to be more concise in future posts.

I am never for the more regulation will cause people to go unregulated argument. ''If we regulate it, they will go undergrouns''. It is such an extreme argument that has no place in this discussion.


On the above post, you gave your view on why casinos are leaving. Your opinion. We do not have data on this. You offered your opinion and I offered mine. You did not state a fact.

This is a rather pointless argument though. It is going no where so I will drop it.

Again it was not my opinion. The casinos have came out themselves and said that was the reason's they were leaving. Did not realise that any comment i made i had to state this is a fact and reference it.
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
Again it was not my opinion. The casinos have came out themselves and said that was the reason's they were leaving. Did not realise that any comment i made i had to state this is a fact and reference it.

I mean, it is obvious they are leaving due to market current market conditions and the failure to turn a profit. Their businesses are clearly not sustainable. This could be for a variety of reasons. A big part of it is due to the regulations in the UK protecting problem gamblers, as I originally stated. They left because their business model does not support the regulations. Their business does not want to adhere to them so they leave.
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
I agree the way regulations are implemented by the UKGC is an issue. All very ambiguous. What exactly is over regulation though? I can think of many things within the online gambling industry that need to be stopped.

Anti money laundering for a start. There are, and have been for years, AML's. The UKGC don't need to issue cloudy guidance that no one can understand, and don't need to regulate it. If casinos don't follow the anti money laundering laws, then they should have action taken against them by the people who uphold the laws, in the uk it would be the NCA. Casinos are shitting themselves at the prospect of getting a large penalty by the UKGC, and as such are doing things they don't need to, and, in some cases, doing things they aren't actually allowed to.
 

paul7388

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Location
glasgow scotland
Just to set the record straight moom i was not attacking you. Maybe just the way i come across at times.

Now can i ask you a serious question and it is in no way meant to offend you.

Your username . It made me think straight away of those things on TV when i was young tho may well be before your time.

Is it anything to do with the moomins i watched as a kid or something completely different.
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
Anti money laundering for a start. There are, and have been for years, AML's. The UKGC don't need to issue cloudy guidance that no one can understand, and don't need to regulate it. If casinos don't follow the anti money laundering laws, then they should have action taken against them by the people who uphold the laws, in the uk it would be the NCA. Casinos are shitting themselves at the prospect of getting a large penalty by the UKGC, and as such are doing things they don't need to, and, in some cases, doing things they aren't actually allowed to.

That would surely be a huge task for any organisation to undertake. I cannot give data, but I would assume that money laundering is extremely common in the online casino industry relative to other industries. Perhaps I am wrong. I am not so sure passing it on would change much. Many industries are extremely paranoid about money laundering regulations. Banks, PayPal etc can be very strict for very petty reasons. I am not exactly an expert on this though. Just my experiences.

In the end, these money laundering regulations are not that bad. It can be a hassle for some people, but it is not that common for the average consumer.

Just to set the record straight moom i was not attacking you. Maybe just the way i come across at times.

Now can i ask you a serious question and it is in no way meant to offend you.

Your username . It made me think straight away of those things on TV when i was young tho may well be before your time.

Is it anything to do with the moomins i watched as a kid or something completely different.

No problem. I haven't taken offence to anything. Start again and I will try to keep my posts more concise. The nature of internet discussions leads to these sort of exchanges where neither of us mean to be hostile but both interpret the others posts as hostile. Just a disagreement.

And yes, it is a reference to the Moomins. The Moomins were randomly in my head whilst picking a username years ago. I am surprised anyone would mention that. Whenever I enter an online casino with this name, the live dealers always call me ''Mum'' lol. It's Mooooom ffs.
 

paul7388

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Location
glasgow scotland
That would surely be a huge task for any organisation to undertake. I cannot give data, but I would assume that money laundering is extremely common in the online casino industry relative to other industries. Perhaps I am wrong. I am not so sure passing it on would change much. Many industries are extremely paranoid about money laundering regulations. Banks, PayPal etc can be very strict for very petty reasons. I am not exactly an expert on this though. Just my experiences.

In the end, these money laundering regulations are not that bad. It can be a hassle for some people, but it is not that common for the average consumer.



No problem. I haven't taken offence to anything. Start again and I will try to keep my posts more concise. The nature of internet discussions leads to these sort of exchanges where neither of us mean to be hostile but both interpret the others posts as hostile. Just a disagreement.

And yes, it is a reference to the Moomins. The Moomins were randomly in my head whilst picking a username years ago. I am surprised anyone would mention that. Whenever I enter an online casino with this name, the live dealers always call me ''Mum'' lol. It's Mooooom ffs.

Lol i never wanted to ask that as i thought you might think he's a cheeky git asking that. Just as soon as i saw it i automatically thought of them so had to ask. But then again maybe just the way my mind works.

Then again i was thinking way back to when i was young. Just been pointed out to me that they are still getting made these days and there is a movie this year. I never for a minute realized they were still going strong. Least i can now pretend it was the newer version i was thinking of :laugh:
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
In the end, these money laundering regulations are not that bad. It can be a hassle for some people, but it is not that common for the average consumer.

I don't know which casinos you play at but its extremely common. Look at Videoslots last year wanting more information than you would have to supply to get a mortgage from a bank. Copies of wills and shit if you said your money was an inheritance. Not just videoslots though, a lot of casinos do the same. Guts saying they don't want you playing there if you have debt or are on benefits. So don't supply a credit card statement as part of your KYC!

If you have to withdraw to the same method you deposit by, money laundering is extremely unlikely, especially if its coming from a bank.
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
I don't know which casinos you play at but its extremely common. Look at Videoslots last year wanting more information than you would have to supply to get a mortgage from a bank. Copies of wills and shit if you said your money was an inheritance. Not just videoslots though, a lot of casinos do the same. Guts saying they don't want you playing there if you have debt or are on benefits. So don't supply a credit card statement as part of your KYC!

If you have to withdraw to the same method you deposit by, money laundering is extremely unlikely, especially if its coming from a bank.

There are not many casinos I have not played at and I have honestly never had this sort of issue. Of course I am a terrible gambler and rarely withdraw. My largest withdrawal is about £1k. What kind of money are we talking with withdrawals for this to happen?

Do you have a source on that Guts thing? That's interesting. Would be interested to read that. Never heard of it happening. I actually don't disapprove of it.
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
There are not many casinos I have not played at and I have honestly never had this sort of issue. Of course I am a terrible gambler and rarely withdraw. My largest withdrawal is about £1k. What kind of money are we talking with withdrawals for this to happen?

Do you have a source on that Guts thing? That's interesting. Would be interested to read that. Never heard of it happening. I actually don't disapprove of it.

So you think anyone with a credit card, mortgage, catalogue, car on finance etc shouldn't be allowed to spend say £10 a month on gambling?
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Some casinos seem to set limits when SOW will happen for AML purposes, which isn't really allowed, but they do it anyway. So could be a lifetime of £2k in withdrawals at somewhere, £500 at another, £10k at another, or, as it should be, at another, if they think you are at a high risk of being involved in criminal activity.
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
So you think anyone with a credit card, mortgage, catalogue, car on finance etc shouldn't be allowed to spend say £10 a month on gambling?

Nah, but it should be looked into. You are using a very extreme example. I do think people who are in debt on credit cards should not be allowed to use credit to gamble at the very least. Credit cards in general should not be used for online gambling.
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Nah, but it should be looked into. You are using a very extreme example. I do think people who are in debt on credit cards should not be allowed to use credit to gamble at the very least. Credit cards in general should not be used for online gambling.

I agree but that wasn't what GUTS said

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/your-guts-casinomeister-team-are-here.81650/page-21
have a read through that to see the lies from guts and the back tracking when called out on it..

and this is where they stated about debt

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/sow.86187/post-979057
The Source of Wealth is mostly asked for UK players, in order to make sure there are players who're not playing if they're loaning funds, in debt, unemployed with no income, low salary, or on welfare.

and here is the ukgc guidance on AML if you want a read of it ;)

Old / Expired Link
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
I agree but that wasn't what GUTS said

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/your-guts-casinomeister-team-are-here.81650/page-21
have a read through that to see the lies from guts and the back tracking when called out on it..

and this is where they stated about debt

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/sow.86187/post-979057
The Source of Wealth is mostly asked for UK players, in order to make sure there are players who're not playing if they're loaning funds, in debt, unemployed with no income, low salary, or on welfare.

and here is the ukgc guidance on AML if you want a read of it ;)

Old / Expired Link

Interesting. Thanks for taking the time to source this. So do you think this is being used as an excuse not to pay out or do you think they are concerned about regulations?

This is a tricky one because I do believe SOW requests are very important. But there are issues. There are issues outside of the issues we have discussed. Even giving casinos this personal information is not ideal. To be pretty blunt, I trust barely any casinos with that sort of data. I signed up to a casino a while ago with a UK license that allowed me to log into my account with my username only. No password needed at all. The vast majority of online casinos can not be trusted with sensitive data in my opinion.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
I don't know which casinos you play at but its extremely common. Look at Videoslots last year wanting more information than you would have to supply to get a mortgage from a bank. Copies of wills and shit if you said your money was an inheritance. Not just videoslots though, a lot of casinos do the same. Guts saying they don't want you playing there if you have debt or are on benefits. So don't supply a credit card statement as part of your KYC!

If you have to withdraw to the same method you deposit by, money laundering is extremely unlikely, especially if its coming from a bank.

You're correct, if someone is depositing via debit card and withdrawing to the same debit card, there is absolutely no need for any casino to ask for sensitive banking information from you.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
Interesting. Thanks for taking the time to source this. So do you think this is being used as an excuse not to pay out or do you think they are concerned about regulations?

This is a tricky one because I do believe SOW requests are very important. But there are issues. There are issues outside of the issues we have discussed. Even giving casinos this personal information is not ideal. To be pretty blunt, I trust barely any casinos with that sort of data. I signed up to a casino a while ago with a UK license that allowed me to log into my account with my username only. No password needed at all. The vast majority of online casinos can not be trusted with sensitive data in my opinion.

IMO some casinos are masquerading affordability checks as AML checks. It's as simple as that in my eyes. There may be the odd casino that sees it all as a stall tactic too.
 
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