just unlucky?

[aka23]

Something seems quite wrong. I don't get all clubs when I double at Intercasino, so it seem that the other suits are expected to occur. The odds of getting 34 clubs in a row (17 1st card drawn and 17 2nd card drawn) are ((13/52)*(12/51))^17 = 1.21 x10^-21... extremely unlikely to occur randomly. If all ~6 billion persons on Earth doubled 17 times at Intercasino in every minute of every day, we'd expect one person to get all clubs each ~250,000 years or so.

The win/loss results are also rare, but the sample size is not large enough to confirm it is not just a bad run.

 

[Zoozie]

Thanks Aka.
It is weird with the clubs. As a programmer my first thought is that it is a log display error for the doubling suits. I also did not notice all the clubs when I was doubling. Still if it is not, that was a quite legendary double session I had there, which I doubt. If I believe in odds that extreme I would already be building a meteor shelter in my backyard.

 

[Eliot Jacobson]

Zoozie re: 197382

I had the following happen to me at Intercasino doubling:

17 attempts:
1 tie
2 win
14 loss

This has a chi squared value of 9, with 2 degrees of freedom. The probability that this result (or something worse) occured at random is 1.11%. This is unlucky, but not signifincantly so. As aka23 noted, there are not enough trials to make a reliable inference.

See Old / Expired Link

The matter of the clubs may be an internal glitch with their log keeping, otherwise that is very significant.

 

[noluckever67]

the reply

came from saints gamoing and NO they did not give me the reply i asked for regarding the casinos upturned card...all i can say is scandalous and obviously something way wrong....

 

[Zoozie]

The matter of the clubs may be an internal glitch with their log keeping, otherwise that is very significant.

I just tested doubling again and I found out the log history of the doubling is bugged. It is always displayed as clubs as I suspected though it was not clubs in the doubling game. I played Bonus 50-line double bonus VP.

I will PM Ryan Hartley about this minor glitch.

Zoozie

 

[Eliot Jacobson]

Normal result

god i hope this works ill be taking up nuclear physics next.

Greetings,

Your original post stated that you believed the house was getting an unexpectedly high number of Aces and Kings. This data file does not contain information about the cards you received, so I cannot make that analysis.

Based on the data provided for the double feature,

Loss: 97
Push: 14
Win: 83

This has a chi squared value of 1.697.

The probability that this (or something worse) happens at random is 42.81%. That makes this a very normal result, with no indication that the results are skewed in any way.

 

[noluckever67]

or

I just tested doubling again and I found out the log history of the doubling is bugged. It is always displayed as clubs as I suspected though it was not clubs in the doubling game. I played Bonus 50-line double bonus VP.

I will send an PM for about Ryan for this minor glitch.

Zoozie

maybe the results they sent me were NOT the true results maybe manufactured????

 

[SlotsWizard]

came from saints gamoing and NO they did not give me the reply i asked for regarding the casinos upturned card...all i can say is scandalous and obviously something way wrong....

I really don't see anything scandalous based on the log.

Out of the 99 doubling "sessions" you only stopped and collected twice. The other 97 times you kept going until you lost:

• 46 times you lost the first double attempt
• 26 times you won or pushed the first attempt and lost the second attempt
• 14 times you won or pushed the first two attemps and lost the third attempt
• 7 times you won or pushed the first three attempts and lost the fourth attempt
• 3 times you won or pushed the first four attempts and lost the fifth attempt
• 1 time you won or pushed the first five attempts and lost the sixth attempt

You lost right away 46 times, and won or pushed at least once the other 51 attempts.

maybe the results they sent me were NOT the true results maybe manufactured????

Zoozie's log is from play at a Wagerlogic casino. Your results are from a Playtech casino.

 

[noluckever67]

you know

what really bugs me in all this...this garbage about RANDOM that saints gaming and all other casinos mention .EVERYONE knows its NOT random if it was how can the house edge be worked out??? ive sent no0w 3 emails to saints asking for these results bit no luck..the EXAGGERATED high amount of A +K that came up was random???lol...ONLINE casinos are sorted why dont they at saidnts just say this instead of sticking to the RANDOM p***...sorry but i feel disgusted by some of the posts on here but prob people have there income to protect...you gamble over 180 hands and randomness would show that at least 5-6 times you would expect to get at least a return but FIXED means you will get 0 and thats exactly the return i got...

 

[SlotsWizard]

FIXED means you will get 0 and thats exactly the return i got...

But that's only because you kept doubling until you lost. If you keep flipping a coin eventually it will land on tails.

 

[noluckever67]

But that's only because you kept doubling until you lost. If you keep flipping a coin eventually it will land on tails.

thats just not true...if a RANDOM game came along you would NEVER get an ACE or a king on so many occassions on the first or second card...YOU take away the first 2 times i gambles a random MACHINE WOULD GIVE YOU A HIGHER % OF WINS ON THE 3RD..SINCE I WAS ONLY PLAYING 10P GAMES HARDLY WORTH COLLECTING AFTER 2 GAMBLES BUT ON SUCH A FEW OCCASSIONS GETTING TO THE 3RD OR 4TH GAMBLE MEANS ITS not CORRECT AND SAINTS GAMINGS REFUSAL TO GIVE ME THE CASINOS UPTURNED CARDS ALSO GOES TO PROVE THAT it is not RANDOM.

 

[SlotsWizard]

thats just not true...if a RANDOM game came along you would NEVER get an ACE or a king on so many occassions on the first or second card...YOU take away the first 2 times i gambles a random MACHINE WOULD GIVE YOU A HIGHER % OF WINS ON THE 3RD..SINCE I WAS ONLY PLAYING 10P GAMES HARDLY WORTH COLLECTING AFTER 2 GAMBLES BUT ON SUCH A FEW OCCASSIONS GETTING TO THE 3RD OR 4TH GAMBLE MEANS ITS not CORRECT AND SAINTS GAMINGS REFUSAL TO GIVE ME THE CASINOS UPTURNED CARDS ALSO GOES TO PROVE THAT it is not RANDOM.

Chance of losing first double = 50%, your results = 46.46%
Chance of doubling once = 50%, your results = 51.51%
Chance of doubling twice = 25%, your results = 25.25%
Chance of doubling three times = 12.500%, your results = 11.11%
Chance of doubling four times = 6.250%, your results = 4.04%
Chance of doubling five times = 3.125%, your results = 1.01%

A little on the unlucky side with successive doubling attempts, but not so much that it can be called rigged. I do understand your frustration though.

 

[lojo]

nle67, what a priveledge to have had your hands looked at here, no? Yes These guys are stating real relevent facts... it doesn't matter what the aces or kings were, when... the statistics show a fair game in a very small sample. Ya gotta give it up. If you don't think the games are random, don't play them.

 

[Zoozie]

Zoozie's log is from play at a Wagerlogic casino. Your results are from a Playtech casino.

Many years ago I tested doubling Playtech VP. I doubled so I had a total of 1000 wins or lose, and I actually ended a little over 500 wins. It is the only software I have tested for fairness doubling.

Zoozie

 

[noluckever67]

so

Many years ago I tested doubling Playtech VP. I doubled so I had a total of 1000 wins or lose, and I actually ended a little over 500 wins. It is the only software I have tested for fairness doubling.

Zoozie

WHY DONT THEY GIVE ME THE PLAY I ASKED FOR?I HAVE NOW ON SEVRAL OCCASSIONS ASKED FOR THE HANDS AND CARDS DEALT YET THEY REFUSE????? IS THIS NORMAL???

 

[noluckever67]

FINAL PROOF

THIS IS THE REPLY REGARDING THE CASINO SHOWING UPTURNED CARDS


Hi James,



Unfortunately there is no interface to export gaming history to csv files. You can view all your history through your access. I am sorry you feel the way you do.



This matter is now closed.


YET YESTERDAY THEY HAPPILY SUPPLIED ME WITH THE SAME CSV FILE ??????????? RIGGED NO DOUBTS ABOUT IT.

 

[SlotsWizard]

THIS IS THE REPLY REGARDING THE CASINO SHOWING UPTURNED CARDS


Hi James,



Unfortunately there is no interface to export gaming history to csv files. You can view all your history through your access. I am sorry you feel the way you do.



This matter is now closed.


YET YESTERDAY THEY HAPPILY SUPPLIED ME WITH THE SAME CSV FILE ??????????? RIGGED NO DOUBTS ABOUT IT.

You lost 20 quid after playing 226 hands of video poker and 193 attempts to double. I'd say you got quite a bit of play considering that you kept trying to double until you ultimately lost.

If you truly feel that it's rigged then you should probably either stop playing at that casino, or take a break for a little while.

 

[noluckever67]

maybe your right

But id like some explaining of this email i recieved from them which is an pbvious lie and why woul dthey lie????

Hi James,



Unfortunately there is no interface to export gaming history to csv files. You can view all your history through your access. I am sorry you feel the way you do.



This matter is now closed.

 

[SlotsWizard]

But id like some explaining of this email i recieved from them which is an pbvious lie and why woul dthey lie????

Hi James,



Unfortunately there is no interface to export gaming history to csv files. You can view all your history through your access. I am sorry you feel the way you do.



This matter is now closed.

I'm not sure. I had never heard of Saints Gaming before this thread. There are better Playtechs to play at. I would recommend Bet365.

 

[noluckever67]

Heres a Q

are casinos not obliged to give you on request these things surely if they had nowt to hide it wouldnt be a problem????

 

[SlotsWizard]

are casinos not obliged to give you on request these things surely if they had nowt to hide it wouldnt be a problem????

Due to the unregulated nature of the industry, unfortunately, they aren't obligated to do anything. Any "obligation" they feel is either a moral obligation or a procedural obligation set by their company.

 

[noluckever67]

whats so unfair

Due to the unregulated nature of the industry, unfortunately, they aren't obligated to do anything. Any "obligation" they feel is either a moral obligation or a procedural obligation set by their company.

Is that yesterda they were happy to give me that csv file but since yesterday when i first emailed them they do not wish to give me the one that shows the upturned cards and i know this is because the spectacular amount of aces and kings that show up...id def steer clear of saints gaming thats just dodgy to me like.

 

[lojo]

I can see where that would raise a red flag for your noluckever, especially where they knew about the thread, and then one of the most important independant industry analysts offered to look at it for you they all of a sudden can't produce a file... I'm not saying I think they are dodgy, just that I understand being upset in that respect.

 

[noluckever67]

I know

I can see where that would raise a red flag for your noluckever, especially where they knew about the thread, and then one of the most important independant industry analysts offered to look at it for you they all of a sudden can't produce a file... I'm not saying I think they are dodgy, just that I understand being upset in that respect.

And this makes it even harder to take cos i know within myself its not a fair game ive played plytech b4 and you always get a turn even at low stakes.And this refusal to give me that file is as far as i can see basically admitting theres something not right with it either.Surely its a players right to get a look at where his has gone on any game

 

[lojo]

If the overall result was out of whack, or if you hadn't doubled the way you did, which gave you that result... it might get looked at closer... but it looks like a fair game from what I can see and the little I know of statitics and chai tea and all. Hope you find some peace with it somehow.