Jammin Jars

[Playford7]

View attachment 95816

Haha brilliant!... over a year ago I was lambasted about my streamer views...
I wasn’t far off the mark..
what’s the betting ‘kim’ Leo Vegas and casino grounds guy whom got the one 14000x win on bonanza on ‘his’ videos gets the new ‘massive winner’ on millionaire.
Zzzz

 

[Playford7]

Some streamers genuine, others not.

The icing on the game which saw me explode my loudest and most sarky "WHATEVER!" was the scenario below, unsure of the streamer but I'll stick to "WHATEVER" forever on this one.

So the guy is playing away at Immortal Romance, spin, spin, spin, the door to the room opens (which is also conveniently on camera) and in walk his pals/friends/gambling buddies, "WHATEVER"

Boom! - The feature drops in. "WHATEVER!"

Chooses Amber Free spins...

Towards the end of the bonus IIRC, all 5 wilds complete with top paying symbols all over the shop

WHATEVER!

Happens to be playing and streaming
Pals happen to turn up
Feature happens to drop right at that very moment
All 5 wilds happen to drop right that feature (something I've never seen nor managed in multi-millions of spins (streams, winners vids, personal play)

Odd must be billions to one

"Secret Streamer Button" is pressed = Even Money

*This is not a rigged post nor accusation. More of a "spot the sales pitch" detector!

Corrupt as hell.
These clowns give affiliates a bad name.

 

[Playford7]

It's not just the win value that is identical, look at Chopley's side by side video. Every symbol from both videos are on identical placement to each other.

It's simply not possible, given the billions or trillions of combinations on this slot.

Look at Shill(ox) or whatever he's called reaction. Staged as staged could be, no real excitement in his expression, just the expression of knowing exactly what is coming already.

Who pays them for these videos? Casino or developer...either way one of them are triggering these wins on demand. So there goes the idea that slots are indeed actually random and the proof everyone keeps asking for that slots are rigged.

If the casino is triggering these for them to lure new players, then it's illegal in every single fucking way and reveals unequivocally that casino's have full control of the slots, your balance and wins, as well as your impossibly cold spells that drains your balance.

I feel sick just looking at that to be honest.

Fantastic post. Totally agree and have for years about ‘streamers’
Not all granted..
this just isn’t cricket (not right)
Be interesting to see the defence of this before we all unleash hell...

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yep, there's a serious issue here that needs addressing, and sharpish.

What happened with those two streamers is, essentially, impossible to explain by random chance.

This means that someone or something was triggering those win sequences. We already know that 'demo modes' exist (for entirely legitimate reasons) for slot testing and/or slot review purposes, whereby features and events can be deliberately triggered.

However, streamers present themselves as normal people playing slots in a normal fashion, and what we've seen there blows that right out of the water as a big fat lie - AND - would require complicit parties within the industry at a casino and/or developer level, to make it possible.

I'm curious to see how this one gets explained away.......

 

[xxxhujer]

Exactly what I thought. And the wins are completely identical. Poor design by Push.

And people who are claiming that some streamers are fake. Why would they play with fake money when they actually earn money by playing with unlimited EV+ reloads? For example Shirox is not fake, he plays a high risk and high EV style reloading smallish amounts and playing max bet allowed on hv slots. And if Roshstein gets 300% on 2k deposit with no max bet then it would be insane not to play with real money.

Roshtein is 1000 percent fake..I was watching his first streams.. so..
I remember, how he started with stream..he was playing at MultiLotto - that casino was totally unknown, they had only two providers and some around 20 games to play..
his starting balance was 5000 Euro and he was playing crazy high bets from the start of his streamer career.. i remember how he started his 2rd or 3rd stream with 10 000 EURO deposit (without bonus!)
logically, who would deposit such ammount to some unknown casino?
Next thing - i remember how he told on stream, he has to write on live chat or make a phone call on MultiLotto for some reason - but the funny thing was MultiLotto had no livechat or phone support at that moment, lol..
Other thing - some guy in chat asked him about license on Multilotto - Roshteins answer was like "i dont care about license and shit".. Seriously? Guy is depositing 10k to casino and he doesnt care where he put his money on?
+ when you search "roshtein fake" in google,you will find some post in one forum, where some guy posted a pic from the game on multilotto and then the screenshot from roshtein stream at the same time to compare.. Roshtein had other jackpots in the game then other MultiLotto players..
I believe only NickSlots, Kim and Rocknrolla.. Streamers which plays 50 euro/bets on daily base or streamers which are getting ultra mega insane wins every stream are a bit suspicious to me..

 

[jk777]

I tweeted to push gaming earlier today and asked for an explanation but no answer.

 

[goatwack]

Well that's gonna be a long wait

 

[Chipkin9]

Yep, there's a serious issue here that needs addressing, and sharpish.

What happened with those two streamers is, essentially, impossible to explain by random chance.

This means that someone or something was triggering those win sequences. We already know that 'demo modes' exist (for entirely legitimate reasons) for slot testing and/or slot review purposes, whereby features and events can be deliberately triggered.

However, streamers present themselves as normal people playing slots in a normal fashion, and what we've seen there blows that right out of the water as a big fat lie - AND - would require complicit parties within the industry at a casino and/or developer level, to make it possible.

I'm curious to see how this one gets explained away.......

I was going to make the point about the "Demo versions".

Now I don't know if the casino's involved with these streamers have given them access to the demo versions of the game where they input a key command like F3 (for example) to trigger the bonuses. But if they have it's still very very illegal and the casino's involved should have thier licenses revoked, but then again this industry is so corrupt that Gambling Authorities probably allow this carry on as long as it remains silent.

I'd also like to point out that while I don't know exactly how Demo versions work, but I would imagine the wins and graphics would be limited and scaled down to as few possibilities just for demonstration purposes; which makes sense if this is the case here.

This video is just a big oooops.

 

[lockinlove]

Good lord. People actually think shirox, casino daddy and roshtein are real.

Use some common sense people. Shirox says he is a financial advisor. Do you know what they are taught in school? To be smart with money, to invest it when you have the edge and always getting a return. Is it not a bit suspicious a financial advisor plays slots 12 hours a day power spinning 5 euros? Claims to have a job but plays slots all day and takes care of a baby?

Casinodaddy and roshtein uses viewbots to inflate their viewers when both channels have maybe 300 real viewers. Go to any channel on twitch that has 1k-5k viewers. The chat is going so fast you cant even see anything. These channels act like a 300 person channel.

Compare casinodaddy channel to casinotest24. the chat is almost as active as each other. The difference is, casinotest has 80-120 viewers and doesnt use viewbots. Not sticking up for him because I think he got caught playing underage. but yeah

All the casinoground guys are using viewbots just not as many to make in noticeable.

The casinos allowing these accounts to play with play money rtp should be ashamed of themselves and if they are accredited, they should instantly not be. They are using and allowing shady tactics to mislead people that is how real slots are played.

Next people will be telling me Daskelele is real and has real viewers LOL.

i remember when slotspinner had 70 viewers like a year ago. Suddenly he is rich and big enough to move to Sweden and suddenly aways had 500+ viewers.

That section is one giant scam and anyone who believes otherwise is a massive sucker that feeds this nonsense! There are maybe 5 real streamers and they are the guys betting 30 cents-$1

It blows my mind people who play slots believe people are doing $5-50 euro spins all day. You should all know that you would lose over 1 million a year doing this. Give it a rest and your head a shake. You are enabling them

These frauds should be outted and shut down so the other smaller channels who play and grind with their money can actually grow. Instead these dirt balls use view bots and fake money to get their way to the top.

But by all means keep supporting cheaters.

 

[trancemonkey]

Yep, there's a serious issue here that needs addressing, and sharpish.

What happened with those two streamers is, essentially, impossible to explain by random chance.

This means that someone or something was triggering those win sequences. We already know that 'demo modes' exist (for entirely legitimate reasons) for slot testing and/or slot review purposes, whereby features and events can be deliberately triggered.

However, streamers present themselves as normal people playing slots in a normal fashion, and what we've seen there blows that right out of the water as a big fat lie - AND - would require complicit parties within the industry at a casino and/or developer level, to make it possible.

I'm curious to see how this one gets explained away.......

I'm not sure why I'm getting involved here because I know what's coming but here goes... and bear in mind this is just my theory, but is likely correct. I hope it is anyway as I've used a similar technique before to what I'm about to explain on a similar game...

On games such as Jammin Jars it would be almost impossible to design "reel bands" in the way you would normally do them. So what I imagine Push have done here is set up the game and then done billions of Games and stored the results.

Then what happens is this game runs in effect like a lottery... so the server is asked for a game and sends a sequence back. The sequences are sent back from the server but the sequence is already predetermined. In other words the choice of sequence is randomly determined but the sequences are preset.

For further clarity, imagine the chance of a 1600x win is 1 in 200,000. There may only be one pattern / sequence that pays 1600. So if the game chooses 1600x on that particular game to pay, then the sequence it shows to the player is the one you see in both videos.

Could they have designed the game so everything was a randomly determined on every drop... possibly. But if they HAVE done what I'm suggesting then it explains why the two are the same.

Caveat... I totally understand why this gives the impression that something underhand has gone on, but having done some complex games before that also needed to work on this "ticket" system (as we call it) it makes sense.

On a normal slot game you would ask the RNG for some reel band positions and just evaluate the win. But on this game I imagine they simply have a very large pool of outcomes and pick each one at random.

Its still random... it's not rigged. But yes if the pool is too small then shit like this happens. It would be good for Push to comment here though. My guess is I'm right... my second guess is that I very much doubt any of you will believe me

 

[Steviedoo]

I think someone in the thread mentioned it was like the lottery and predetermined but that got ignored and well the rigged train has left the station...

I think it was kasinoking.

 

[trancemonkey]

I think someone in the thread mentioned it was like the lottery and predetermined but that got ignored and well the rigged train has left the station...

I think it was kasinoking.

To be honest predetermining 10m sequences and then picking them at random (or maybe weighted) is the only real way to do these games.

 

[The Viking]

Hmmm

 

[Balthazar]

To be honest predetermining 10m sequences and then picking them at random (or maybe weighted) is the only real way to do these games.

So in reality it's no different than both guys getting the same 1600x line hit on Break the bank again. It only appears that there are too many possible outcomes on this game for this to happen, but what we see is just the (predesigned) visual interpretation of a 1600x win picked by the RNG. That's still lazy way to make a slot though.

 

[trancemonkey]

So in reality it's no different than both guys getting the same 1600x line hit on Break the bank again. It only appears that there are too many possible outcomes on this game for this to happen, but what we see is just the (pre-designed) visual interpretation of a 1600x win determined by the RNG. That's still lazy way to make a slot though.

That's exactly what they are likely to have done... and with these types of games, it is the easiest way to do it. I wouldn't say lazy.

 

[Balthazar]

That's exactly what they are likely to have done... and with these types of games, it is the easiest way to do it. I wouldn't say lazy.

Yeah I can only imagine the maths behind the paytable of that game if every little square in there would act randomly and independently. Same thing with Reactoonz probably. They have predesigned patterns picked randomly on each spin (or at least the winning ones).

It makes a lot of sense actually. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

 

[jk777]

So basically when they speak about the famous potential this game has only exists in a form of a series of predetermined wins? So the slot is NOT random and you only pray that the RTP kicks in and throws you one of the predetermined big wins.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'm not sure why I'm getting involved here because I know what's coming but here goes... and bear in mind this is just my theory, but is likely correct. I hope it is anyway as I've used a similar technique before to what I'm about to explain on a similar game...

On games such as Jammin Jars it would be almost impossible to design "reel bands" in the way you would normally do them. So what I imagine Push have done here is set up the game and then done billions of Games and stored the results.

Then what happens is this game runs in effect like a lottery... so the server is asked for a game and sends a sequence back. The sequences are sent back from the server but the sequence is already predetermined. In other words the choice of sequence is randomly determined but the sequences are preset.

For further clarity, imagine the chance of a 1600x win is 1 in 200,000. There may only be one pattern / sequence that pays 1600. So if the game chooses 1600x on that particular game to pay, then the sequence it shows to the player is the one you see in both videos.

Could they have designed the game so everything was a randomly determined on every drop... possibly. But if they HAVE done what I'm suggesting then it explains why the two are the same.

Caveat... I totally understand why this gives the impression that something underhand has gone on, but having done some complex games before that also needed to work on this "ticket" system (as we call it) it makes sense.

On a normal slot game you would ask the RNG for some reel band positions and just evaluate the win. But on this game I imagine they simply have a very large pool of outcomes and pick each one at random.

Its still random... it's not rigged. But yes if the pool is too small then shit like this happens. It would be good for Push to comment here though. My guess is I'm right... my second guess is that I very much doubt any of you will believe me

What you're saying there certainly sounds possible, in fact, I've hypothesised on my channel recently that slots such as Reactoonz and these other 'reaction' style games are just an RNG pick from the backend and then everything you see after that is merely a sound and light show demonstrating the result. (And TBH, I suspect quite a few more traditional looking slots work on this basis as well, to make things look more exciting than they are in bonus rounds and suchlike.)

We're still left with the vanishingly unlikely scenario that two streamers happened to hit exactly the same RNG call a few hours apart, whilst streaming live at the time, on a new slot that they were both promoting.

(And we're also having to buy into the theory that they both hit the same 1600x call from the RNG, and that Push Gaming have only put one sequence for that win into the pool of possible results.)

So I can believe the game works the way you're suggesting, but I'm still highly suspicious of the scenario in which we've seen two identical results pulled in such a short timeframe by two streamers.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So basically when they speak about the famous potential this game has only exists in a form of a series of predetermined wins? So the slot is NOT random and you only pray that the RTP kicks in and throws you one of the predetermined big wins.

The game can be random and fair, but still work on a 'picks' system whereby once the RNG has made the call to the backend for the round result, everything you're seeing onscreen is just a fancy predetermined sound and light show.

This does however mean that when you're looking at the screen on games like this (and Reactoonz and its ilk), what you might see as 'potential wins' (i.e. 'if symbol X drops into position Y, this will be massive') can be entirely impossible to achieve, because what you're actually watching is a predetermined sequence of events to display the result of the original RNG call.

This is why I like traditional reelstrip slots, because it's possible to work out exactly what the potential wins are. Who has any idea whatsoever when it comes to games like Jammin' Jars? It's also impossible to accurately assess the variance, because what you're seeing on the screen is, in essence, entirely disconnected from the RNG on the backend.

(So in the example of the two streamers getting identical results, there was no randomness as to whether or not the final cascade would result in another win, as the RNG had already picked 1600x, so it was always going to play out the way it did, and finish where it did.)

TBH I think it's shit game design and I don't play this sort of game, for precisely these reasons.

 

[trancemonkey]

So basically when they speak about the famous potential this game has only exists in a form of a series of predetermined wins? So the slot is NOT random and you only pray that the RTP kicks in and throws you one of the predetermined big wins.

No, i believe i said it was still random. It's still picking randomly from a pool of possible results.

 

[trancemonkey]

The game can be random and fair, but still work on a 'picks' system whereby once the RNG has made the call to the backend for the round result, everything you're seeing onscreen is just a fancy predetermined sound and light show.

This does however mean that when you're looking at the screen on games like this (and Reactoonz and its ilk), what you might see as 'potential wins' (i.e. 'if symbol X drops into position Y, this will be massive') can be entirely impossible to achieve, because what you're actually watching is a predetermined sequence of events to display the result of the original RNG call.

This is why I like traditional reelstrip slots, because it's possible to work out exactly what the potential wins are. Who has any idea whatsoever when it comes to games like Jammin' Jars? It's also impossible to accurately assess the variance, because what you're seeing on the screen is, in essence, entirely disconnected from the RNG on the backend.

(So in the example of the two streamers getting identical results, there was no randomness as to whether or not the final cascade would result in another win, as the RNG had already picked 1600x, so it was always going to play out the way it did, and finish where it did.)

TBH I think it's shit game design and I don't play this sort of game, for precisely these reasons.

Nail. Head.

 

[Harry_BKK]

What you're saying there certainly sounds possible, in fact, I've hypothesised on my channel recently that slots such as Reactoonz and these other 'reaction' style games are just an RNG pick from the backend and then everything you see after that is merely a sound and light show demonstrating the result. (And TBH, I suspect quite a few more traditional looking slots work on this basis as well, to make things look more exciting than they are in bonus rounds and suchlike.)

We're still left with the vanishingly unlikely scenario that two streamers happened to hit exactly the same RNG call a few hours apart, whilst streaming live at the time, on a new slot that they were both promoting.

(And we're also having to buy into the theory that they both hit the same 1600x call from the RNG, and that Push Gaming have only put one sequence for that win into the pool of possible results.)

So I can believe the game works the way you're suggesting, but I'm still highly suspicious of the scenario in which we've seen two identical results pulled in such a short timeframe by two streamers.

Looks fishy and sounds fishy, although trancemonkey's explanation makes sense and is probably very close to what has happened.

I receive demo links all the time where I can call up a 3-scatter, 4-scatter trigger, a big win, a ultra win etc. In many cases (depends on game provider), the reels play out the same every time i request one of the demos.

I would assume since the two streamers promote the slot for Push Gaming that they received the demo link and Push Gaming had only one 1,600x hit stored in their demo, probably as ultra win or whatever they call it. The rest is good acting.

 

[jk777]

We're still left with the vanishingly unlikely scenario that two streamers happened to hit exactly the same RNG call a few hours apart, whilst streaming live at the time, on a new slot that they were both promoting.

.

Actually Shirox got this win over a week ago.

 

[trancemonkey]

What you're saying there certainly sounds possible, in fact, I've hypothesised on my channel recently that slots such as Reactoonz and these other 'reaction' style games are just an RNG pick from the backend and then everything you see after that is merely a sound and light show demonstrating the result. (And TBH, I suspect quite a few more traditional looking slots work on this basis as well, to make things look more exciting than they are in bonus rounds and suchlike.)

We're still left with the vanishingly unlikely scenario that two streamers happened to hit exactly the same RNG call a few hours apart, whilst streaming live at the time, on a new slot that they were both promoting.

(And we're also having to buy into the theory that they both hit the same 1600x call from the RNG, and that Push Gaming have only put one sequence for that win into the pool of possible results.)

So I can believe the game works the way you're suggesting, but I'm still highly suspicious of the scenario in which we've seen two identical results pulled in such a short timeframe by two streamers.

With regards to the two streamers getting it so close together - the chance of a 1,600x win can't be very high. Of course, it's possible it did just randomly happen, and i'd like to believe this is the case. It's also possible that they have only included one pattern for this win - which in my opinion is a bit poor if it's true.

I've made my feelings on streamers very clear in other threads, so i won't dwell on it - there are already a lot of strong opinions in this thread. However, suffice to say that i don't trust most of the streamers - and indeed anyone betting over 5€ a spin for prolonged periods of time. I have no evidence they are doing anything underhand, but something doesn't feel right i'll be honest...

 

[trancemonkey]

Looks fishy and sounds fishy, although trancemonkey's explanation makes sense and is probably very close to what has happened.

I receive demo links all the time where I can call up a 3-scatter, 4-scatter trigger, a big win, a ultra win etc. In many cases (depends on game provider), the reels play out the same every time i request one of the demos.

I would assume since the two streamers promote the slot for Push Gaming that they received the demo link and Push Gaming had only one 1,600x hit stored in their demo, probably as ultra win or whatever they call it. The rest is good acting.

This is plausible, without doubt... Demo buttons normally request specific results.

 

[dunover]

This is plausible, without doubt... Demo buttons normally request specific results.

Yes, and as you know you can select 'BIG WIN' from the 'DEMO' menu and it will be the same screen every time, same win. You can also action this at any stake too. Same as when you select 'ANTICIPATION' or '5SCATTER' it will produce the same reels configuration every time.

This does look as bent as a Boy George sleepover, I admit. (As Playford has already nicked my 'Barrymore pool party' one).

 

[slotter999]

To be honest predetermining 10m sequences and then picking them at random (or maybe weighted) is the only real way to do these games.

I had been meaning to ask you about this in your AMA thread. I came to the conclusion that pre computed must be the only feasible way of doing this type of game and these videos suggest that is the case.

I don't know why but there is something unappealing about this form of slots.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So at the very least we're left with ethical issues here:

1) Streamers using demo modes and pretending they're playing for real money, and reacting as such. (Compare and contrast with dunover, for example, who always very clearly states when he's playing in demo mode and doesn't get all histrionic about the things happening on screen.)

2) Developers/casinos passing demo links to streamers, and apparently quite happy to 'play along' with them using demo modes and pretending they're winning real cash.

3) An irresponsible presentation of unrealistic results, called at will, to the viewing public - a clear enticement to gamble on a false premise.

The Shirox video clearly says 'Win was at Videoslots' with an affiliate link. Are Videoslots in on this as well? Do they know that affiliated streamers are promoting games at their casino with fake demo play, whilst pretending they're winning real money?

That's the real stink here, IMO.

 

[Balthazar]

Actually Shirox got this win over a week ago.

So the wins were a week apart, with thousands of spins played on that game from various streamers (including those 2).

 

[Balthazar]

So at the very least we're left with ethical issues here:

1) Streamers using demo modes and pretending they're playing for real money, and reacting as such. (Compare and contrast with dunover, for example, who always very clearly states when he's playing in demo mode and doesn't get all histrionic about the things happening on screen.)

2) Developers/casinos passing demo links to streamers, and apparently quite happy to 'play along' with them using demo modes and pretending they're winning real cash.

3) An irresponsible presentation of unrealistic results, called at will, to the viewing public - a clear enticement to gamble on a false premise.

The Shirox video clearly says 'Win was at Videoslots' with an affiliate link. Are Videoslots in on this as well? Do they know that affiliated streamers are promoting games at their casino with fake demo play, whilst pretending they're winning real money?

That's the real stink here, IMO.

I didn't watch those streams but assuming that they are playing live people can see their balance in real time, it would require quite a bit of skill to pass a game in demo mode in the middle of a live session.

 

[dunover]

So at the very least we're left with ethical issues here:

1) Streamers using demo modes and pretending they're playing for real money, and reacting as such. (Compare and contrast with dunover, for example, who always very clearly states when he's playing in demo mode and doesn't get all histrionic about the things happening on screen.)

2) Developers/casinos passing demo links to streamers, and apparently quite happy to 'play along' with them using demo modes and pretending they're winning real cash.

3) An irresponsible presentation of unrealistic results, called at will, to the viewing public - a clear enticement to gamble on a false premise.

The Shirox video clearly says 'Win was at Videoslots' with an affiliate link. Are Videoslots in on this as well? Do they know that affiliated streamers are promoting games at their casino with fake demo play, whilst pretending they're winning real money?

That's the real stink here, IMO.

They COULD be using demo play but it would take some clever editing as there are buttons and stuff everywhere on the screen when you get the menus. You would need to pause the film while selecting the spin you wanted, then activate it and cut back in with the screen trimmed to avoid giving it away. If the edges aren't visible or the casino's game perimeter then that would be a clue.

 

[Balthazar]

They COULD be using demo play but it would take some clever editing as there are buttons and stuff everywhere on the screen when you get the menus. You would need to pause the film while selecting the spin you wanted, then activate it and cut back in with the screen trimmed to avoid giving it away. If the edges aren't visible or the casino's game perimeter then that would be a clue.

This is highly, highly unlikely that they do that during live streaming in front of hundreds of people who wouldn't notice.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well I find the alternative explanation pretty much impossible to accept.

 

[trancemonkey]

So at the very least we're left with ethical issues here:

1) Streamers using demo modes and pretending they're playing for real money, and reacting as such. (Compare and contrast with dunover, for example, who always very clearly states when he's playing in demo mode and doesn't get all histrionic about the things happening on screen.)

2) Developers/casinos passing demo links to streamers, and apparently quite happy to 'play along' with them using demo modes and pretending they're winning real cash.

3) An irresponsible presentation of unrealistic results, called at will, to the viewing public - a clear enticement to gamble on a false premise.

The Shirox video clearly says 'Win was at Videoslots' with an affiliate link. Are Videoslots in on this as well? Do they know that affiliated streamers are promoting games at their casino with fake demo play, whilst pretending they're winning real money?

That's the real stink here, IMO.

I very much doubt they were in demo mode... you would see the options come up on the screen.

 

[trancemonkey]

Well I find the alternative explanation pretty much impossible to accept.

The alternative? That two people a week apart happened to get the same result? I'd say it's the only believable explanation...

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Many things are 'possible', but so highly improbable they stretch the bounds of credibility past breaking point.

For two affiliated streamers to hit exactly the same RNG call, for a very rare win of 1600x stake, within a week of each other (and not more than a couple of thousand spins apart I'd suspect), whilst they happen to be live streaming and promoting the same new slot?

I'm not having that. Any seasoned slot player will know how rare wins of that kind of magnitude are, for them to occur so close together, identical RNG calls, whilst being live streamed?

Nah.

 

[deaconk78]

Many things are 'possible', but so highly improbable they stretch the bounds of credibility past breaking point.

For two affiliated streamers to hit exactly the same RNG call, for a very rare win of 1600x stake, within a week of each other (and not more than a couple of thousand spins apart I'd suspect), whilst they happen to be live streaming and promoting the same new slot?

I'm not having that. Any seasoned slot player will know how rare wins of that kind of magnitude are, for them to occur so close together, identical RNG calls, whilst being live streamed?

Nah.

been reading this thread and i wondered was there any pattern to the play prior to them hitting the same bonus win sequence ? similar dead spins etc ? that would be dodgy ( if you could see a pattern forming prior to a win )

 

[KasinoKing]

...
Then what happens is this game runs in effect like a lottery... so the server is asked for a game and sends a sequence back. The sequences are sent back from the server but the sequence is already predetermined. In other words the choice of sequence is randomly determined but the sequences are preset.
...

Which is what I said.

However, there is one MASSIVE problem with this system: If all the outcomes are indeed predetermined, there must be a maximum win.
If there is a maximum win - why isn't that stated in the game's pay-table or help file?

The way those Jammin Jars jump about with increasing multipliers, it gives the impression that mega-wins are possible, with no particular maximum.
That certainly would be the case if the symbols were 100% truly randomly generated.

KK

 

[dunover]

I can sense a foil explosion coming on this thread......KABOOM!

 

[trancemonkey]

Which is what I said.

However, there is one MASSIVE problem with this system: If all the outcomes are indeed predetermined, there must be a maximum win.
If there is a maximum win - why isn't that stated in the game's pay-table or help file?

The way those Jammin Jars jump about with increasing multipliers, it gives the impression that mega-wins are possible, with no particular maximum.
That certainly would be the case if the symbols were 100% truly randomly generated.

KK

Because quite simply they don't have to state it... the rights and wrongs of that are probably a whole thread on their own.

 

[dunover]

OK, here's a quick unlisted video of attempted fakery - is it feasible on a live stream?

 

[shadow123]

Talking about predetermination,Red tiger games are rather interesting
If you get a long drawn out feature as in laser fruits or my new favorite
game tiki fruits and the feature gets interrupted half way though, on reloading
it just shows a total feature win instead of resuming the feature which
means that either every feature spin is predetermined at the start, which is unlikely
as there can be a lots spins and the games are quite complex or
there is a total win target set at the start and the feature runs until that is achieved.
Either way is does show that the feature outcome is definitely predetermined at the start.
I dont mind though, I like the games.

 

[trancemonkey]

Talking about predetermination,Red tiger games are rather interesting
If you get a long drawn out feature as in laser fruits or my new favorite
game tiki fruits and the feature gets interrupted half way though, on reloading
it just shows a total feature win instead of resuming the feature which
means that either every feature spin is predetermined at the start, which is unlikely
as there can be a lots spins and the games are quite complex or
there is a total win target set at the start and the feature runs until that is achieved.
Either way is does show that the feature outcome is definitely predetermined at the start.
I dont mind though, I like the games.

In that case i believe the feature plays out on the server in the background and the total is shown to you on reload.

 

[Jono777]

I've always thought features to be pre-determined on 90% (if not more of slots) - Too long in the tooth and way too much time on AWP's back in the day create this (realistic?) mind set

Doesn't affect the fairness, RTP, randomness nor mean they're rigged, that pre-determined feature could still be randomly mine and pay 10,000x

If I am way off here there BTG's random pool on Chilli certainly contains a hell of a lot of win blocker and losing spins, that's for sure

As I've said before no more rigged nonsense just my thoughts that the way we/some/others feel the mechanics work are different from the way they actually do!

 

[trancemonkey]

OK, here's a quick unlisted video of attempted fakery - is it feasible on a live stream?

Now try and do that on a live stream without anyone spotting it

 

[SpinUk]

duplicate

 

[SpinUk]

1000% they are pre-determined in this game. Imagine the maths nightmare of truly random symbols with this games dynamics. No. This is direct evidence of “scratchcard” randomness where there are 10,000 (for example) predermined events of which this is one of them.

Thats the generous view.

The non-generous (and mathematically more likely, Trance I challenge you to argue this otherwise) view is of technical collusion between the provider/casino/streamer to promote their new game.

 

[shadow123]

Games like Rainbow riches are little more than animated scratchcards with every spin displaying
a predetermined win amount or losing game is a variety of ways, rather dumb.For me the more
random a game appears to be, the more interesting it is.On the stuff I programmed years ago,I always
tried to introduce as much visual randomness ( is that a word?) as possible even though the outcome
was tightly controlled

 

[Chipkin9]

With regards to the two streamers getting it so close together - the chance of a 1,600x win can't be very high. Of course, it's possible it did just randomly happen, and i'd like to believe this is the case. It's also possible that they have only included one pattern for this win - which in my opinion is a bit poor if it's true.

I've made my feelings on streamers very clear in other threads, so i won't dwell on it - there are already a lot of strong opinions in this thread. However, suffice to say that i don't trust most of the streamers - and indeed anyone betting over 5€ a spin for prolonged periods of time. I have no evidence they are doing anything underhand, but something doesn't feel right i'll be honest...

What I don't understand is WHY they would only have one graphical representation of a 1,600x win.

Seriously, why?

It is going to be hit so seldomly, so how much effort is really needed to be put into making a few hundred different graphics for it? On the opposite side you will have 10x on a grand scale and I guarantee you you won't run into the same graphical representation for a 10x win because they've programed so many of them...riddle me that?

 

[SpinUk]

Many things are 'possible', but so highly improbable they stretch the bounds of credibility past breaking point.

For two affiliated streamers to hit exactly the same RNG call, for a very rare win of 1600x stake, within a week of each other (and not more than a couple of thousand spins apart I'd suspect), whilst they happen to be live streaming and promoting the same new slot?

I'm not having that. Any seasoned slot player will know how rare wins of that kind of magnitude are, for them to occur so close together, identical RNG calls, whilst being live streamed?

Nah.

Exactly. Although the industry loves to fall back on the “randomness” defence to try to counter any claims of dodgyness, the realms of possibilty for this - against the chances of technically possible collusion - which this is - are ridiculously remote. I am calling 100% bullshit on it.