JackpotLiner - Source of Wealth problem

[brandfold]

Good Morning,

Currently doing a run around with jackpotliner.co.uk

In summary, deposited £100. Won £1,200. Requested withdrawal. Headache,

Asking for bank statements for source of funds for deposit? For £100, really?

I am told if I do not comply, they will withhold my funds.

Appreciate any comments.

Hello have you had your withdrawal honoured yet? I have a similar situation with a Broadway Gaming Site
deposit £300 won £7000 - have closed my account abruptly after 3 weeks of endless documentation providing bank statements / payslips my memorandum of the sale of my house ...........I think i will have to write and complain as I cant even find the complaints procedure

 

[Halifax95]

Hello have you had your withdrawal honoured yet? I have a similar situation with a Broadway Gaming Site
deposit £300 won £7000 - have closed my account abruptly after 3 weeks of endless documentation providing bank statements / payslips my memorandum of the sale of my house ...........I think i will have to write and complain as I cant even find the complaints procedure

Yeah, it was a painful experience, got paid in the end. Live chat were useless.

 

[gfkostas]

However, when a bank statement is provided and significant amounts are being received and sent, additional investigation to those transfers is needed.

I would decline any such requests. It does not matter how this is "justified", it is plain and simple ridiculous unless we are talking about serious sums. Please bear in mind that you as a private company, we do not REALLY know you and your associates and we certainly do not know the friends of your friends not to mention the possibility of a data hack.

Especially for wealthy people, handing out bank statements is a HUGE security risk never mind any other ethical considerations. I wish from the get go that you informed people that there is x threshold and if reached you would need to SOW and therefore as a player BEFORE you deposit you actually know what you are getting into in case you need to withdraw.

If I know that x casino will SOW the hell out of me should I pass 5k in deposits I would have then stayed under the limit or not play there at all. At that point players would have had no issues with AML/SOW procedures. It is the out of nowhere "withdraw halted until SOW is completed" that infuriates us no matter how you justify it. UKGC or not you are a cog in the wheel that participates in this practise so deservedly you get some heat coming your way.

Punters really need to gather together, form a large movement, stop complying and lobby for a change. It is the only way out of this SOW insanity. I am so glad I moved to crypto casinos a while ago and have avoided all this crap.

 

[Halifax95]

I would decline any such requests. It does not matter how this is "justified", it is plain and simple ridiculous unless we are talking about serious sums. Please bear in mind that you as a private company, we do not REALLY know you and your associates and we certainly do not know the friends of your friends not to mention the possibility of a data hack.

Especially for wealthy people, handing out bank statements is a HUGE security risk never mind any other ethical considerations. I wish from the get go that you informed people that there is x threshold and if reached you would need to SOW and therefore as a player BEFORE you deposit you actually know what you are getting into in case you need to withdraw.

If I know that x casino will SOW the hell out of me should I pass 5k in deposits I would have then stayed under the limit or not play there at all. At that point players would have had no issues with AML/SOW procedures. It is the out of nowhere "withdraw halted until SOW is completed" that infuriates us no matter how you justify it. UKGC or not you are a cog in the wheel that participates in this practise so deservedly you get some heat coming your way.

Punters really need to gather together, form a large movement, stop complying and lobby for a change. It is the only way out of this SOW insanity. I am so glad I moved to crypto casinos a while ago and have avoided all this crap.

Agree with you.
The thing for me is, it's always at the point of withdrawal. I just cannot see the logic as to I hit a threshold for a withdrawal. The closed loop system is in place. If it has only cost me £100. Regardless of the amount won it should be paid back to the card the money has come from in the first place.

 

[L&L-Jan]

I would decline any such requests. It does not matter how this is "justified", it is plain and simple ridiculous unless we are talking about serious sums. Please bear in mind that you as a private company, we do not REALLY know you and your associates and we certainly do not know the friends of your friends not to mention the possibility of a data hack.

Especially for wealthy people, handing out bank statements is a HUGE security risk never mind any other ethical considerations. I wish from the get go that you informed people that there is x threshold and if reached you would need to SOW and therefore as a player BEFORE you deposit you actually know what you are getting into in case you need to withdraw.

If I know that x casino will SOW the hell out of me should I pass 5k in deposits I would have then stayed under the limit or not play there at all. At that point players would have had no issues with AML/SOW procedures. It is the out of nowhere "withdraw halted until SOW is completed" that infuriates us no matter how you justify it. UKGC or not you are a cog in the wheel that participates in this practise so deservedly you get some heat coming your way.

Punters really need to gather together, form a large movement, stop complying and lobby for a change. It is the only way out of this SOW insanity. I am so glad I moved to crypto casinos a while ago and have avoided all this crap.

uhmz why quote me for your rant, i just give some advice?

 

[jasonuk]

Agree with you.
The thing for me is, it's always at the point of withdrawal. I just cannot see the logic as to I hit a threshold for a withdrawal. The closed loop system is in place. If it has only cost me £100. Regardless of the amount won it should be paid back to the card the money has come from in the first place.

There are two primary scenarios here:

The first, where deposits trigger the check - you should be alerted at the first opportunity (i.e. shortly after depositing), but some operators abuse the CDD process and wait until withdrawal (which could be weeks or months later, and the player is unknowingly anti-freerolling themselves because subsequent winnings require a completed CDD).

Under UKGC rules, withdrawals are not supposed to be delayed if the operator could have reasonably asked for the information earlier. This predictably causes a lot of tension because the operator is in the wrong, but the UKGC are ignoring the problem.

Saying that, if you are a higher roller (e.g. £1k+ a month for a given site) then you are likely to be reviewed (including financial documentation) for responsible gambling, CDD/AML or both.

--

The second, where withdrawals trigger the check (as in your case) - this is the common one where people misquote the UKGC rule above.

The handling of these cases varies wildly - some will just be a manual review (e.g. 12-48 hours instead of instant), some will ask for additional identification documents, some will start asking for additional financial information (which raises question marks - this is a withdrawal trigger) and some will absolutely take the piss - as you sadly discovered above.

Annoyingly, the UKGC have ignored the problems here too - and operators have frequently asked for too much information, either as a faux-reversal tactic, or because they are afraid of being snagged for AML failures. The incoming rule changes should help here - but UKGC need to start enforcing action against operators abusing this process for their own benefit.

For what it's worth, with the previous changes to UKGC guidelines regarding identity documentation, it is possible to complete a withdrawal CDD (for the first time) without any additional documents. Namely because they need to verify your identity - which they have done previously - and your deposits are not sufficient to cause an AML check.

 

[gfkostas]

uhmz why quote me for your rant, i just give some advice?

I just highly disagree with the practise that you mentioned hence I quoted it. Nothing personal.

Because of UKGC (and lack of revolt from punters) casinos openly criminalize everyone and ask them to prove that they aren't criminals while many casinos in the meantime withhold their funds.

 

[brandfold]

Yeah, it was a painful experience, got paid in the end. Live chat were useless.

How long did it take ?
I cant even get a response from Broadway Gaming….

 

[Halifax95]

How long did it take ?
I cant even get a response from Broadway Gaming….

11 days in total. What are you being asked for?

 

[BudMol]

Hi, I’m in the throes of this at the moment. Won £20k. I gambled £500 and hit withdrawal at £19,500 and short of giving them a vile of blood.

I’ve had withdrawals prior but only couple of hundred here and there and it was only when I requested the large withdrawal that they started asking me for a ton of proof. My wife is a financial adviser and she can’t get over how insane it’s all become.

I requested the withdrawal on the 11th of August and I’ve sent, statements, payslips, ID selfie with ID, card confirmation, card statement, joint account earnings statement. What else would they need?

If you could guide me where to start a complaint, that would be great mate, cheers!

 

[Halifax95]

Hi, I’m in the throes of this at the moment. Won £20k. I gambled £500 and hit withdrawal at £19,500 and short of giving them a vile of blood.

I’ve had withdrawals prior but only couple of hundred here and there and it was only when I requested the large withdrawal that they started asking me for a ton of proof. My wife is a financial adviser and she can’t get over how insane it’s all become.

I requested the withdrawal on the 11th of August and I’ve sent, statements, payslips, ID selfie with ID, card confirmation, card statement, joint account earnings statement. What else would they need?

If you could guide me where to start a complaint, that would be great mate, cheers!

Hear what you're saying. I've been through it, I just had to comply to get every penny from them.

I just disagree with being asked for documents at point of withdrawal. If they accept your deposits they should pay the withdrawals.

I hear people say you've reached a CDD threshold, but again, disagree with it. Just because you've won, why does that entitle the casino to see all your bank statements?

 

[BudMol]

Exactly! They should do that at point of registration. I’m a high stakes but I’m done after this. Sickened by it all.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[conker]

L&L-Jan, you have been the voice of reason here, but I can't help feeling that there is a reasonable level of cynicism at the amount of requests made to the OP for a £100 deposit.

The logic here also seems bizarre. You absolutely guarantee that the player will never return to your casino, due to the frustration and loss of trust. It is brand cannibalism and for what? £1100?

SOW checks are all part of the process now in the UK, but when they are being used in ways that don't make any sense then it just feels like an ulterior motive is at play. I am very pleased to hear you have finally resolved this issue and have got your money.

 

[L&L-Jan]

L&L-Jan, you have been the voice of reason here, but I can't help feeling that there is a reasonable level of cynicism at the amount of requests made to the OP for a £100 deposit.

I can't answer for a different operations, each operator has their own procedures in place. Don't know their procedure.

 

[BudMol]

L&L-Jan, you have been the voice of reason here, but I can't help feeling that there is a reasonable level of cynicism at the amount of requests made to the OP for a £100 deposit.

The logic here also seems bizarre. You absolutely guarantee that the player will never return to your casino, due to the frustration and loss of trust. It is brand cannibalism and for what? £1100?

SOW checks are all part of the process now in the UK, but when they are being used in ways that don't make any sense then it just feels like an ulterior motive is at play. I am very pleased to hear you have finally resolved this issue and have got your money.

My total deposits are £9198 and total withdrawal £3k. Not a single request for a document until now that their net amount goes from a positive to a negative. That to me seems like a legit ulterior motive

 

[jasonuk]

My total deposits are £9198 and total withdrawal £3k. Not a single request for a document until now that their net amount goes from a positive to a negative. That to me seems like a legit ulterior motive

Well this is curious, because I believe this is the scenario Jan (as a standalone third party - L&L are not linked to Broadway) was suggesting above - and Broadway haven't asked for documents until the big win.

Given the current CDD guidance, It doesn't sound like there's a formal lifetime limit - just how a regulator and/or operator construes "linked" transactions to hit the €1000 lower limit or €2000 headline limit for Customer Due Diligence.

Unlike the OP, you do have significant deposits lifetime so are more likely to be asked for a ton of data - and yes it's ridiculous and at this stage people have probably managed mortgages with less.

My previous observations would equally apply - you can read the CDD guidance yourself to understand the procedure and while you do have the option to comply or not comply, if they're being this difficult already then a refusal may cause more complications.

I don't think a complaints procedure is going to be useful at this point because the operator isn't technically in breach of the CDD procedure - they are just being intentionally difficult to stall you out and hope you'll lose the money back (after all, you have played £500 back - now that you've been asked for CDD you should not play at all until the CDD process has completed, that's one of the worst anti-freerolls you can impose on yourself).

Once you've been paid, I would report it to the UKGC though (since it's no longer a dispute at that point) - they need to realise these antics are still going on.

 

[BudMol]

I did think you’d find that interesting. I also believe it was as the point Jan was trying to make as well.

Im not allowed to wager anymore until verification has completed - which was similar for the OP I believe. However the fact they allowed me to wager a further £500 ( which isn’t included in my deposit total ) makes me believe they are stalling.

I’m so frightened they won’t pay out. I read the rules you posted but I was a little confused. If they don’t pay it out do they have to refund all my deposits?

 

[Halifax95]

I did think you’d find that interesting. I also believe it was as the point Jan was trying to make as well.

Im not allowed to wager anymore until verification has completed - which was similar for the OP I believe. However the fact they allowed me to wager a further £500 ( which isn’t included in my deposit total ) makes me believe they are stalling.

I’m so frightened they won’t pay out. I read the rules you posted but I was a little confused. If they don’t pay it out do they have to refund all my deposits?

In fairness, they stopped me depositing as well. So it's not like I could do the balance in. I think they just make it difficult and keep asking for more documents you can't provide as an excuse to close your account and confiscate your winnings.

 

[BudMol]

That’s exactly how they are making me feel! £19,500 is not something I want to give up on

 

[Halifax95]

That’s exactly how they are making me feel! £19,500 is not something I want to give up on

I'd just say play ball for the amount involved. Whilst it is a pain, keep at it. You will get your money.

 

[BudMol]

I’ve sent them absolutely every single document they have asked for. For both accounts that I’ve deposited with

 

[jasonuk]

Im not allowed to wager anymore until verification has completed - which was similar for the OP I believe. However the fact they allowed me to wager a further £500 ( which isn’t included in my deposit total ) makes me believe they are stalling.

The withdrawal likely triggers the CDD, so if you withdrew then played on with the £500 that's not ideal (because of the anti-freeroll). Operators that allow people to deposit and/or play while under CDD are clearly trying to trap their players...

I’m so frightened they won’t pay out. I read the rules you posted but I was a little confused. If they don’t pay it out do they have to refund all my deposits?

The CDD rules state they should pay out the ringfenced balance (at the time of CDD trigger) plus subsequent deposits if you refuse to comply, but they are obligated to close your account as well. There are a number of problems with that statement though:

• Sites are a law unto themselves sometimes - so even if they should, they may try and use T&Cs or other tricks to steal the money.
• If you are a large depositor, if they are concerned about proceeds of crime then that opens a whole different can of worms (which can involve confiscation of funds).
• Any balances will be locked at the point of the CDD trigger - which as we've seen with other operators, is not necessarily when the player is informed. This opens a really dangerous chasm because the player has different information to the operator - and the time when the CDD is triggered dictates when the pots are split (ringfenced balance, subsequent deposits, subsequent winnings).
  • If a player refuses to comply with CDD, the ringfenced balance and subsequent deposits should be returned, but the subsequent winnings must not.

So given the lack of clear regulations, we can only point people to the pitfalls to avoid...

 

[Halifax95]

The withdrawal likely triggers the CDD, so if you withdrew then played on with the £500 that's not ideal (because of the anti-freeroll). Operators that allow people to deposit and/or play while under CDD are clearly trying to trap their players...


The CDD rules state they should pay out the ringfenced balance (at the time of CDD trigger) plus subsequent deposits if you refuse to comply, but they are obligated to close your account as well. There are a number of problems with that statement though:

• Sites are a law unto themselves sometimes - so even if they should, they may try and use T&Cs or other tricks to steal the money.
• If you are a large depositor, if they are concerned about proceeds of crime then that opens a whole different can of worms (which can involve confiscation of funds).
• Any balances will be locked at the point of the CDD trigger - which as we've seen with other operators, is not necessarily when the player is informed. This opens a really dangerous chasm because the player has different information to the operator - and the time when the CDD is triggered dictates when the pots are split (ringfenced balance, subsequent deposits, subsequent winnings).
  • If a player refuses to comply with CDD, the ringfenced balance and subsequent deposits should be returned, but the subsequent winnings must not.

So given the lack of clear regulations, we can only point people to the pitfalls to avoid...

In short, avoid dodgy operators like Broadway Gaming? Probably explains their £100,000 fine several years ago with misleading advertising. If they're doing that, what else are they doing?

In fact, most online casinos have been fined for regulatory failings. Don't trust any of then.

 

[BudMol]

Thanks lads.

I made the withdrawal but I continued to play with the remaining balance.

I’ve just logged in to check and here we go again

 

[BudMol]

Wait WHAT?

Halifax help me out here lad