Jackpot Factory check bounces

[RobWin]

David, first off I would like to say that I apologize to you for the heat of the moment comment that I made regarding you "not being man enough to come in here and address this issue", that, as you have proved now was clearly not your intention. Granted I could have done this thru PM to you, but I felt like since I made the comment in public then I should also apologize to you in public...that's just the way I roll !! ~RW~

I do want to address some of your comments that you made here though and I hope that maybe we will have a response from you with a bit more clarity regarding this troubling issue....

Hi everyone,

Ill cut right to the chase: Our processing company works with a variety of banks to handle financial transactions. There was an problem in one of those bank, and the account that these checks were linked too had insufficient funds. The bank told us it was a case of human error, which is something very difficult to argue with as we all make mistakes.

I can certainly understand human error, but the part that troubles me is this...when I take money to the bank to deposit into my account or when I give the money to my accountant or to a family member to deposit I always make sure I receive a deposit ticket in return for those funds just deposited as I am sure that anyone would do, so that you have a recorded record of that deposit transaction which also can be easily checked online nowadays to make sure the deposit was in fact credited to your account, now I for one will also not write a check against that account without absolutely knowing for certain that the funds are there in order to cover that check...

And if the funds were not there to cover the check then my bank credit line would kick in and cover the check as I have this both on my personal and business accounts just in case, you know...so to get on to my couple of questions now and I really do hope that you will answer this for all of us in a clear unbiased way to where we all can understand...

Q1. A business the size of yours with the stellar Reputation that it has here at Casinomeister does not have a line of credit set up at the bank these checks were drawn on for overdraft protection ?

Q2. You said "The bank told us it was a case of human error"....may I ask who the Human Error was,,,are you referring to someone that actually worked at the bank ? Or one of your people ? Or was it someone that worked for the processor that works for JPF ?

We will obviously more than cover ALL bank fees incurred by players effected by this issue.

Q3. I think that is the least that you could do as a business person, but how do you cover the embarrassment and humiliation that the folks that have deposited your checks that bounced have sustained ?

Q4. They now have to go back and face the merchant that they wrote checks to and pick them up or make them right with them and most likely that merchant is also going to tack on a $30.00 or more fee also...Is JPF also willing to cover those Merchant Fees for writing bad checks ?

David, I'm really not trying to be a smart ass here or anything like that but I also think that we can have a gentlemen exchange here that I feel others would also like to know the answers to these questions...and if you do decide to respond to these questions here could you please respond to each one individually, the same way I asked them...

As I have said numerous times in the past, we do everything we can to get withdrawals into the hands of our players in as timely a manner possible. With the situation in the US, there are sometimes delays and glitches. In this case it wasnt anything sinister or some financial trouble with the casino, simply human error.

Our suggestion to all US players is to deposit with Quicktender, which is the quickest and most secure way to deposit and withdraw monies from the casino.

My thanks to those whos posts reflected both patience and reason. Personally, I dont see the need to be so negative when mistakes occur, especially with a casino group who is always willing to come forward and discuss issues. I can only imagine as players youd like to deal with an honest casino group who is always approachable.

All the best,
David Brickman
Jackpot Factory Spokesman

And also one that is absolutely financially stable....

Thank you again David for my anticipation of you taking the time to thoroughly read thru this post and responding.

Sincerely,

RobWin

 

[pacers31]

I suppose that I will get banned for this, but why is it that if the casino bounces the check we are suppose to just shrug it off as "oh well, our bad", if the player bounces the check, he is in a world of hurt. It's a two way street David, and you let the player down. I for one would expect much better from the BEST Casino group of the year (dripping sarcasm). So, in case I don't get a chance to talk to you all again, I really have enjoyed your company. CM, if these are your bread and butter I'm afraid you will starve. Keep 'em honest guys, hope I get to speak with you all again. Stay away from Jokepot Factory or don't bitch when you get screwed!!

 

[chuchu59]

Pacers 31,

Haha! I doubt whether you will be banned for your stance on JOKEPOT FACTORY.


Seriously though, your strong stance on JPF does hold some water because they should also know the problem with paying USA customers. Like I said in a couple of other threads, 3 Dice has gone to enormous lengths to pay USA players without any hassles and I would think that the casinos should put more effort into it. I agree that there will be difficulties but in this space and age problems are meant to be solved. At the very least, once it is known that the checks in question will bounce, you must communicate with the players to placate.


Nevertheless, I applaud the decision by JPF to reimburse the bank fees to the players. Meanwhile, speaking of approachable, when will I get a reply to my PM to JPF?

 

[winbig]

Pacers 31,

Haha! I doubt whether you will be banned for your stance on JOKEPOT FACTORY.


Seriously though, your strong stance on JPF does hold some water because they should also know the problem with paying USA customers. Like I said in a couple of other threads, 3 Dice has gone to enormous lengths to pay USA players without any hassles and I would think that the casinos should put more effort into it. I agree that there will be difficulties but in this space and age problems are meant to be solved. At the very least, once it is known that the checks in question will bounce, you must communicate with the players to placate.


Nevertheless, I applaud the decision by JPF to reimburse the bank fees to the players. Meanwhile, speaking of approachable, when will I get a reply to my PM to JPF?

Did you by chance PM JPF before they were out of the loop?

 

[chuchu59]

Winbig,

It was only a trivial matter but I was surprised that the had no reply to my follow-up PM sent to them on the 10th.

 

[yameater]

Hi everyone,


I am going to look into this issue asap and get everyone an update today. While I do not minimize this issue at all, there seems to be a lot of negativity around one bounced check. I think it's obvious that we would never send players checks that we didn't have funds to cover.


All the best,

David Brickman
Jackpot Factory Spokesman.

Mr. Brickman,
First let me say that I understand your precarious task of paying U.S. players. I know this has been difficult for casinos still dealing with we players. I have to comment though on your statement concerning the negativity around one bounced check. I had this happen to me a couple months ago at another casino, and I can tell you it is no small problem when this happens! I was hit with $650.00 in overdraft fees, not mention the insufficient funds that I constntly tried to keep up with. Everytime I would make a deposit, another transaction hit my account. I was so stressed out with the whole ordeal that I missed a day of work to calm myself down. I know it is not intentional on the casino's part, but the stress this causes the client cannot be measured. It took me a full 10 days before things were back to normal. Now my bank is more cautious when I deposit out of state checks. They recently held one for a week to make sure it was good. So there are consequences we players pay when bad checks are issued.Unless you've had this happen to you (which I never had b4) it is hard to really feel the impact.
Thanks.

 

[pacers31]

I'm sorry if this bugs some people, but when such a "well respected" member of this forum allows his site to take an extra deposit from a regular paying customer by mistake (I assume) and then makes the regular player beg for the money back that was misappropriated, the regular player has every right to rail against the perpetrator. Bad service, bad attitude and now bad checks, YOU'RE OUT BRICKMAN! (exposed for the ineffectual spokesman you are). CM may hail you as a great guy, but I for one (of many I suspect) will not!

 

[pacers31]

Good point yameater. I cannot agree with the statement that it is sooooo difficult to pay US customers. I get paid quickly without any bounced checks! If some can, why can't JF?!? You are correct about the disaster that bounced checks can cause and DB seems oblivious to this fact. "Ah, gee guys, I'm sorry, hey it's me here ya know" isn't gonna fly. As the saying goes, "Money talks, and bullshit walks!"

 

[yameater]

Good point yameater. I cannot agree with the statement that it is sooooo difficult to pay US customers. I get paid quickly without any bounced checks! If some can, why can't JF?!? You are correct about the disaster that bounced checks can cause and DB seems oblivious to this fact. "Ah, gee guys, I'm sorry, hey it's me here ya know" isn't gonna fly. As the saying goes, "Money talks, and bullshit walks!"

Pacers,
I wish someone could answer that for us..."If some can, why can't JF?"
I'm not just taking about JF either. They should all be able to issue Postal money orders or something I would think. Anybody know why this is?

 

[winbig]

Mr. Brickman,
First let me say that I understand your precarious task of paying U.S. players. I know this has been difficult for casinos still dealing with we players. I have to comment though on your statement concerning the negativity around one bounced check. I had this happen to me a couple months ago at another casino, and I can tell you it is no small problem when this happens! I was hit with $650.00 in overdraft fees, not mention the insufficient funds that I constntly tried to keep up with. Everytime I would make a deposit, another transaction hit my account. I was so stressed out with the whole ordeal that I missed a day of work to calm myself down. I know it is not intentional on the casino's part, but the stress this causes the client cannot be measured. It took me a full 10 days before things were back to normal. Now my bank is more cautious when I deposit out of state checks. They recently held one for a week to make sure it was good. So there are consequences we players pay when bad checks are issued.Unless you've had this happen to you (which I never had b4) it is hard to really feel the impact.
Thanks.

Let's not forget the future impact a bounced check can have as well. If/when you go to get a loan through your bank - refinancing a house or whatever - your bank will look at that bounced check and tack on a point or two to your interest rate. Does it matter that it's not your fault? Nope...

 

[pacers31]

Oh come on Winbig, it's just a simple mistake, you know, it's o.k.! HAHA, after all they are the CASINO GROUP OF THE YEAR!!! Seriously, you are exactly correct. Hey, maybe DB can pay you tuesday, isn't that what wimpy always used to say. I will gladly pay you tuesday, for a deposit today!!!

As Jack Nicholson once said in a movie DB, "Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're full up here" (with your nonsense).

 

[yameater]

Let's not forget the future impact a bounced check can have as well. If/when you go to get a loan through your bank - refinancing a house or whatever - your bank will look at that bounced check and tack on a point or two to your interest rate. Does it matter that it's not your fault? Nope...

Crikey! Oh great...I didn't realize that WinBig. Thanks for pointing it out. Like I said, I've been fortunate that I've never had a check bounce before except with a casino. Bummer!!

 

[chuchu59]

In Hong Kong, the issuer of the bounced check will be the one to suffer the consequences unless you present checks that bounce frequently.

 

[jod5413]

I was raised to believe that when you put a check in your account, it was wise to not consider it "your money"" until it had cleared. Makes sense, since it is not truly cash until it has been cleared by your bank as "spendable cash".

I would most humbly suggest to those that do still gamble that when they do win and receive checks, that they do what I would think they know they should do, since most people have learned the basics of managing a checking account. Wait to see that it clears the bank. Then, if it doesn't, you still have a problem, yes, but it is not compounded by all those other added problems, like bounced check fees, embarrassment, etc. If you do not wait, then it is your own fault if you run up the bad reputation that you get for spending money that is not yet proven "yours".

Since you are gambling and winning to receive the check, I would think you have extra, disposable income, yes? In which case, it should not be a hardship to wait until the check clears before you spend it. And, if it doesn't clear, be sure and act like a spoiled child and make the casino rep wish he had never bothered to show up here and try to make things right.

Come on people, get some perspective on these things. You will live a lot longer, your blood pressure will be lower, and you will appear to be much more "together" to the rest of the gambling community.

 

[Casinomeister]

I suppose that I will get banned for this, but why is it that if the casino bounces the check we are suppose to just shrug it off as "oh well, our bad", if the player bounces the check, he is in a world of hurt. It's a two way street David, and you let the player down. I for one would expect much better from the BEST Casino group of the year (dripping sarcasm). So, in case I don't get a chance to talk to you all again, I really have enjoyed your company. CM, if these are your bread and butter I'm afraid you will starve. Keep 'em honest guys, hope I get to speak with you all again. Stay away from Jokepot Factory or don't bitch when you get screwed!!

What I'm trying to get across here is that it is not a perfect world, and if you are in the US and expect flawless stellar performance from any casino concerning payouts - then you are going to be horribly disappointed. The US market is screwed - get over it.

JF is doing what he can - he doesn't work for me and is not obligated to be checking in at 4am on a Sunday to answer your complaints. He is a member of this forum, just like you. He explained that he was out a couple of days - business days, not the weekend - so give the guy a break.

If you want to have a bash fest - this isn't the place to do it. This is the place to solve problems and to resolve issues. This won't happen if you go into an attack mode.

You should know better than to post taunts "I'll probably get banned for this..." etc. You get banned for breaking the rules - period. Continue to flame forum members and see what happens.

 

[pacers31]

protecting the criminal I see. By the way CM and Jod, it is a CRIME to issue a bad check. If this were the first incident with this group maybe some slack would be warranted, but with their history shows otherwise. I still don't get your protectionist attitude toward this group Bryan?!

Jod, I was raised that you don't write a check if you can't cover it. Plain and simple. I am done with posting here if this is the way it is going to be. Accused of flaming when the harsh critique is valid. Do as you wish Bryan, but if this forum is going to turn into a place where only certain groups can be criticized, then it isn't the useful tool that I thought it was. Sorry you feel the need to protect JF Bryan, I'm sure you have your reasons. So, ban, don't ban, it doesn't matter if you are intent on supporting these guys.

 

[pacers31]

By the way, any clever reasons for why some don't have these issues and others do concerning payouts???

 

[chuchu59]

protecting the criminal I see. By the way CM and Jod, it is a CRIME to issue a bad check. If this were the first incident with this group maybe some slack would be warranted, but with their history shows otherwise. I still don't get your protectionist attitude toward this group Bryan?!

Jod, I was raised that you don't write a check if you can't cover it. Plain and simple. I am done with posting here if this is the way it is going to be. Accused of flaming when the harsh critique is valid. Do as you wish Bryan, but if this forum is going to turn into a place where only certain groups can be criticized, then it isn't the useful tool that I thought it was. Sorry you feel the need to protect JF Bryan, I'm sure you have your reasons. So, ban, don't ban, it doesn't matter if you are intent on supporting these guys.

Pacers,

This is taking things a bit too far. The criticism of JPF is OK but the choice of words is way over the top. This group needs some shaping up but since they have agreed to cover all the associated bank fees we might as well give them the benefit of the doubt although patience with them is wearing thin.

I play occasionally at All Jackpots and their payment by moneybookers is quick so I dont think that they dont have the funds. It's more on the side of mismanagement and not trying hard enough for US players.

 

[Casinomeister]

...I still don't get your protectionist attitude toward this group Bryan?!

Jod, I was raised that you don't write a check if you can't cover it. Plain and simple. I am done with posting here if this is the way it is going to be. Accused of flaming when the harsh critique is valid. Do as you wish Bryan, but if this forum is going to turn into a place where only certain groups can be criticized, then it isn't the useful tool that I thought it was. Sorry you feel the need to protect JF Bryan, I'm sure you have your reasons. So, ban, don't ban, it doesn't matter if you are intent on supporting these guys.

This is the deal. I expect members here to treat each other with respect - this seems to be difficult for you. This is not a "us vs them" message board - it's a community with members from every facet of the online gaming community. If you mistake my explanations for protectionism, then I guess I am not making myself very clear. I am not acting as an apologist; I am providing information. You seem to misconstrue information as providing excuses.

Your "harsh criticism" is troll-like and is not productive. It's just a unneeded casino-bash that is destructive which doesn't help anyone. I've been running this forum for about ten years now and my experience tells me that you need to be fair and balanced as much as possible in order to maintain a successful community. Troll-like posts are a waste of time in my opinion and violate this community's posting rules (which you agreed to when signing up).

...protecting the criminal I see...

 

[silkprint]

I never said that I had spent the money ...as I didn't . I do doubt however that the millions od people who cash their paychecks on payday out there in the world to buy groceries , deposit and then wait for their pay to clear . A check is supposed to be good when written.
I do think though that taking over a month to get a check sent is too much.

 

[kakata]

silk.........
few balanced words are more usefull sometimes
The main problen here is they shouldnt have wrote a check......
Most gamblers 95% I wold assume, are on "the short stack" and when they win they wait for those dollars to cover all the shit they have created to them self.......lol
I have been there many times....

 

[bryand]

protecting the criminal I see. By the way CM and Jod, it is a CRIME to issue a bad check. If this were the first incident with this group maybe some slack would be warranted, but with their history shows otherwise. I still don't get your protectionist attitude toward this group Bryan?!

Jod, I was raised that you don't write a check if you can't cover it. Plain and simple. I am done with posting here if this is the way it is going to be. Accused of flaming when the harsh critique is valid. Do as you wish Bryan, but if this forum is going to turn into a place where only certain groups can be criticized, then it isn't the useful tool that I thought it was. Sorry you feel the need to protect JF Bryan, I'm sure you have your reasons. So, ban, don't ban, it doesn't matter if you are intent on supporting these guys.

Man, u REALLY gotta chill. Be straight with everyone. Do you have a beef with JF or CM? In my opinion its the latter. Whatever it is, take it outside.

 

[pacers31]

bryand, yes I have a beef with JF. Bryan, you say I'm misconstruing things, but you are the one that made them the best outfit of the year, and it seems to me that you are the one that is having a hard time admitting you made a mistake! Just what is a troll like post anyway, never heard the term. You tell me to calm down after experiencing the JF treatment personally, and act as if they deserve respect. Why can't you just admit that they aren't the jewel you made them out to be?? This is my last post on the subject, love them all you want. You're the one that has to deal with the credibility gap you've created concerning your involvement with this group. Sorry everyone if your toes hurt, but I know what they are about. So, don't come crying when you get screwed!

 

[Jackpot Factory]

Reply from David Brickman at the Jackpot Factory

Robvin, thanks for your comments and your questions. I hope youll find my answers satisfactory.

Q1. A business the size of yours with the stellar Reputation that it has here at Casinomeister does not have a line of credit set up at the bank these checks were drawn on for overdraft protection ?

We dont actually deal with these banks, our processing company does. With the US banking situation it isnt so easy to simply have a line of credit. There are deals made with banks to process money even though they relate to gambling and these checks arent always processed through the banks regular channels. I am not at liberty to into more detail but I think everyone can get the idea.

Q2. You said "The bank told us it was a case of human error"....may I ask who the Human Error was,,,are you referring to someone that actually worked at the bank ? Or one of your people ? Or was it someone that worked for the processor that works for JPF ?

The human error was in two places. Our processing company transferred money to the bank but the manager at their end didnt allocate the funds to the correct account. Weve had words with the processing company as well because someone there should have verified the accounts were ok.


Q3. I think that is the least that you could do as a business person, but how do you cover the embarrassment and humiliation that the folks that have deposited your checks that bounced have sustained ?

Excellent question I dont think I can really give a satisfactory answer to this. We can apologize and do our best to prevent this from happening again. Again, not to trivialize this issue but I am sure if you poll this forum many people have had bounced checks from a variety of sources.

Q4. They now have to go back and face the merchant that they wrote checks to and pick them up or make them right with them and most likely that merchant is also going to tack on a $30.00 or more fee also...Is JPF also willing to cover those Merchant Fees for writing bad checks ?

As I said, we will more than cover any fees incurred by this issue. In general we request documentation of the fees so people dont try and take advantage. With players who have a history with us well take them at their word.


Pacers31, I almost never like to address people personally on public thread. It is obvious youve had a bad experience with us (which I very much remember) and still havent gotten over it. I will just add one comment to what you said: It is a crime to write bad checks. I am not a lawyer but I believe it is a crime to intentionally issue bad checks. Again, I am sure many forum members themselves have written checks by accident that bounced due to some accidental accounting work. Yes, a business should be 100 times more careful but as I said in my previous post... we're all human.


Not to sound like a broken record but if you are a US customer please use Quicktender for deposits and withdrawals. If you do not have an account you can contact our support team for information on how to open one. I know there are casinos out there that issue checks within 2 weeks but unfortunately we are not one of them. We are working hard to shorten timelines but for now its generally 30 days. We are honest about the situation and do what we can.

Once again my appreciation to those people whos posts reflect logic and patience. Casinmeister, your positive perspective is always appreciated.

Sorry for such a long post and I hope everyone enjoys the rest of the weekend!


All the best,

David Brickman
Jackpot Factory Spokesman

 

[RobWin]

Thanks David for your through reply to my questions and I appreciate the time you took to address each one individually,,,I for one am satisfied with your answers...you also have a good weekend..

Rob