Is RTP absolute bull?

[WiremuH]

first of all, i'm not saying whether or not i think any casino or software is fair or not. What i have noticed is that whenever someone posts anything about a casino not being on the up and up or questions their experience in a particular session, etc... they are always told to prove it.

So my question is... let's say that any one of us did hypothetically have a good reason to question a casino or software and everyone starts yelling at him / her to "prove it or shut up." How in the world would he / she prove it? Seriously.

1. Should he/she just wait for someone at the casino to accidently send him a bunch of logs and data that incriminate the casino like in the poker site case?

2. Should he/she go ahead and continue to play until a gazillion bajillion spins of data can be shown to satisfy those that always say "well it's such a small sample...it takes millions of spins...etc."

3. Should he/she contact the governing body that oversees these online casinos to look into the matter?

4. Should he/she contact the software developer, like rtg as an example, since they would never allow their software to be used in an unethical way?

5. Should he/she just go on forums to plead their case and pray that not everyone just tells them to "prove it or shut up?"

The reason i am asking this question is that i was wondering what would have happened in the poker site case if the player did not get those logs accidently sent to him. Would that player have been treated just as another "sore loser" too?

In other words... how could anyone EVER prove anything if all we do is make excuses for casinos? Seriously.. a video poker game has an unfair gamble feaure (software update malfunction?), missing wilds on a slot machine (software glitch, but game pays correctly?"), dynamic weighting on video slots?, etc... When is it called CHEATING?

I've always stated that i think the good online casinos use somewhat random software, but not in the way we all think random should be. It is entertainment only so i sometimes play with that in mind.

Online casinos have very little overhead compared to B & M so shouldn't it be REALLY evident in the slot paybacks? I mean, i would think online slots should play MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better than B & M slots... but do they?

Guess what i am wondering is, when do we start asking for casinos to PROVE TO US THAT THEY ARE FAIR?

Not really a rant or anything... just curious as to what other people think they would do if they suspected a casino of having unfair games. (ps... anyone thinking of saying "well, just don't play there!" would be missing the point.)

I've played online casinos now for a very long time. And now all I see is the cheating. Rtp is bullshit and they story they tell ya is even bigger bullshit. Not even logical. In a session you deposit 20, you lose 20. But data shows you won 400 during that session but by the end of the session you net loss is 420. Therefore it shows a return of 400 to player. And then they go on to say that the RTP is really shown over 100s of thousands of spins even millions. My logic is Deposit 20 and lost 20. 100% loss To me.
RGN, random generated numbers. Bullshit....
I've spun 1000 and 1000s same game and the pattern becomes clear, the glitches and errors are predictable now.
1 game ive played. Glitches at the excact same point, just keeps spinning instead of dropping the 3rd scatter symbol to trigger the games. Until error shows up and kicks you to lobby.
it refuses to give the free game feature after the extra bonus feature had reached the maximum level. Giving you more games with higher multiplier if feature was triggered. I reported it. Told the Normal script bullshit lige chat talks. Clear cookies etc. I screen recorded it. It was eventually escalated but they said they can not see anything wrong. I sent them screen recordings of this same glitch happening on the same game, same point but on 3 different casino sites. 3 different devices and 3 different internet connections, 3 different locations.
They still say they couldn't see anything wrong and the game round payed what it should have.
You star to notice the same patterns within all the games. No matter the casino or game or game provider.
Theres nothing random especially when you see repetitive shit consistently happening.
But who do you show the jours of screen recordings showing that the games or casino or provider are cheating and what they say about fair regulated games is a lie, a scam. It's theft really.
I'm happy to loose money gambling. It's what happens but the way we are loosing is criminal and there needs to be something done about it

How is this possible

 

[dunover]

I've played online casinos now for a very long time. And now all I see is the cheating. Rtp is bullshit and they story they tell ya is even bigger bullshit. Not even logical. In a session you deposit 20, you lose 20. But data shows you won 400 during that session but by the end of the session you net loss is 420. Therefore it shows a return of 400 to player. And then they go on to say that the RTP is really shown over 100s of thousands of spins even millions. My logic is Deposit 20 and lost 20. 100% loss To me.
RGN, random generated numbers. Bullshit....
I've spun 1000 and 1000s same game and the pattern becomes clear, the glitches and errors are predictable now.
1 game ive played. Glitches at the excact same point, just keeps spinning instead of dropping the 3rd scatter symbol to trigger the games. Until error shows up and kicks you to lobby.
it refuses to give the free game feature after the extra bonus feature had reached the maximum level. Giving you more games with higher multiplier if feature was triggered. I reported it. Told the Normal script bullshit lige chat talks. Clear cookies etc. I screen recorded it. It was eventually escalated but they said they can not see anything wrong. I sent them screen recordings of this same glitch happening on the same game, same point but on 3 different casino sites. 3 different devices and 3 different internet connections, 3 different locations.
They still say they couldn't see anything wrong and the game round payed what it should have.
You star to notice the same patterns within all the games. No matter the casino or game or game provider.
Theres nothing random especially when you see repetitive shit consistently happening.
But who do you show the jours of screen recordings showing that the games or casino or provider are cheating and what they say about fair regulated games is a lie, a scam. It's theft really.
I'm happy to loose money gambling. It's what happens but the way we are loosing is criminal and there needs to be something done about it

How is this possible

OK, you necromanced an old thread over a decade old, so have started a new one just for you!

The first thing you need to understand is that even if a slot game is 99.99% RTP you will lose your whole bankroll eventually if you keep recycling wins. Just far slower than on 96%.

It's a long-term figure but imagine you start with $100 and bet $1 a spin, on average the house takes 4c every spin, so the more spins you take the more 4c amounts you lose until eventually you bust.

Of course that doesn't take into account variance which in the short term and the duration of one session can swing wildly, you could get 50% for the session or hit a big win early and get 1500%.

RTP is not a direct relation of net financial loss for playing slots games etc.

If you play $1 spins and start with $100 on a 96% slot, you should get about 2400 spins before you bust, at which point your RTP would be 96% but of course the financial loss is 100% of the amount you began with.

As for game graphics, the reels are generally just visual eye candy to represent a RNG result which is returned in a split second after you press start, the game knows you've won 0.5x bet, 8x bet or 0x and then represents it on the game. A long spin shouldn't make any difference on a predetermined RNG pull, more than likely a glitch that occurs in the graphics on certain results like a scatter tease.

 

[philderby]

Chopley has recently gone into depth around RTP% expected returns etc. Its a good watch. Put the kettle on, go to Asda for some choccy biccies and enjoy the video.

 

[Mouse75]

Choccy Biccies?

And give the 17.%% VAT to the government, - no that's robbery and just shows that the return to payer for biscuits is just as bent and don't get me started on the jaffa cakes!

They really do take the biscuit, well cake - asl HMRC!!

 

[09237653]

videoslots have an rtp tracking feature which is broken as hell now but back when it used to work properly tracking my own play and numbering in 10s of 1000s of spins on various BTG games the RTPs were close to expected which is impressive as they are generally calculated over billions of spins by the providers.

 

[Jono777]

Sometimes.

You lose, bullshit rigged.

You win, best game/casino on the planet

Whilst we're talking biscuits too, RIP Nestle Breakaway, one of my lifetime faves, gone, sob

 

[Deanna]

"As for game graphics, the reels are generally just visual eye candy to represent a RNG result which is returned in a split second after you press start, the game knows you've won 0.5x bet, 8x bet or 0x and then represents it on the game. A long spin shouldn't make any difference on a predetermined RNG pull, more than likely a glitch that occurs in the graphics on certain results like a scatter tease."

So Dunover, I've always wondered something about this. And the reason why is quite a few years back when I won the 20+k Jackpot on Naughty or Nice, I was in the middle of jumping out of the game in the middle of the feature. I went ahead and let it do one more spin which turned out to be the winning spin. I've always wondered had I logged out at the beginning of the feature, when I returned to the game the following day, would I have still won the Jackpot? Or would someone else have possibly won it overnight? Am I making sense? Sometimes I do log out after hitting a feature, for whatever reason (sometimes for that superstitious reason). I might want to complete it on my phone while outside smoking or some other dumb reason. So maybe you can finally answer it for me!

 

[philderby]

I dont have any biccies in anymore because i cant trust myself not to finish them off. My go to would have to be Tunnucks caramel wafer. Can you call them a biscuit? IDK

 

[dunover]

I dont have any biccies in anymore because i cant trust myself not to finish them off. My go to would have to be Tunnucks caramel wafer. Can you call them a biscuit? IDK

Tunnock's Caramel Wafers an 8-pack every fortnight in this house, plus a 6-pack of Tunnock's Tea Cakes.

 

[dunover]

"As for game graphics, the reels are generally just visual eye candy to represent a RNG result which is returned in a split second after you press start, the game knows you've won 0.5x bet, 8x bet or 0x and then represents it on the game. A long spin shouldn't make any difference on a predetermined RNG pull, more than likely a glitch that occurs in the graphics on certain results like a scatter tease."

So Dunover, I've always wondered something about this. And the reason why is quite a few years back when I won the 20+k Jackpot on Naughty or Nice, I was in the middle of jumping out of the game in the middle of the feature. I went ahead and let it do one more spin which turned out to be the winning spin. I've always wondered had I logged out at the beginning of the feature, when I returned to the game the following day, would I have still won the Jackpot? Or would someone else have possibly won it overnight? Am I making sense? Sometimes I do log out after hitting a feature, for whatever reason (sometimes for that superstitious reason). I might want to complete it on my phone while outside smoking or some other dumb reason. So maybe you can finally answer it for me!

As soon as you paid and initiated that spin, the pull on the RNG results pool would have occurred and the result logged instantly. All you did was abandon the graphics, so if you had logged out or closed the game the result would have been apparent next time you opened it, or you would have seen it in your balance if you didn't open the game, although saying that many software brands will replay your round either in total or from the moment it was cut off. So your result was always going to be that one.

*Some games though may actually produce random results within the feature, from a separate part of the RTP pool on slots where the feature total outcome is not predetermined. If that was the case with your particular slot, I suppose it would be possible for that spin within the feature to have picked a different result had it not occurred right then and was delayed.

As I have no specific knowledge of how your slot operates or is designed, I cannot be sure - I would say generally the first paragraph would be most likely, the latter one possible!

 

[Deanna]

As soon as you paid and initiated that spin, the pull on the RNG results pool would have occurred and the result logged instantly. All you did was abandon the graphics, so if you had logged out or closed the game the result would have been apparent next time you opened it, or you would have seen it in your balance if you didn't open the game, although saying that many software brands will replay your round either in total or from the moment it was cut off. So your result was always going to be that one.

*Some games though may actually produce random results within the feature, from a separate part of the RTP pool on slots where the feature total outcome is not predetermined. If that was the case with your particular slot, I suppose it would be possible for that spin within the feature to have picked a different result had it not occurred right then and was delayed.

As I have no specific knowledge of how your slot operates or is designed, I cannot be sure - I would say generally the first paragraph would be most likely, the latter one possible!

Thank you for answering! I had often wondered if I'd logged out and had no clue I won whether the jackpot would have instantly changed for everyone else so when I logged in at a later time it would still be all MINE! I think this was possibly at Clubworld back in the day, or maybe Uptown Aces, I can't remember. At the time I thought omg, what if I hadn't waited on that spin, would someone else have won it overnight? I mean, over 20k on a .50 spin was pretty darn exciting! The dumbest part of the whole thing is I'd been playing the game most of the day on and off, even when I was using bonus money which had max cashouts. ACK. So stupid, I've never done that on any game again, but I didn't really believe I could win the actual Jackpot. I just liked that game at the time! Now I've won it 3 times, once for over 12k on a .50 spin. I'm a believer!

 

[Milaroy]

RTP might make sense on paper, but for real players, session-to-session, it often feels meaningless. Sadly, unless regulators or media take an interest, it's hard to hold anyone accountable.

 

[snorky510238]

As soon as you paid and initiated that spin, the pull on the RNG results pool would have occurred and the result logged instantly. All you did was abandon the graphics, so if you had logged out or closed the game the result would have been apparent next time you opened it, or you would have seen it in your balance if you didn't open the game, although saying that many software brands will replay your round either in total or from the moment it was cut off. So your result was always going to be that one.

*Some games though may actually produce random results within the feature, from a separate part of the RTP pool on slots where the feature total outcome is not predetermined. If that was the case with your particular slot, I suppose it would be possible for that spin within the feature to have picked a different result had it not occurred right then and was delayed.

As I have no specific knowledge of how your slot operates or is designed, I cannot be sure - I would say generally the first paragraph would be most likely, the latter one possible!

If that’s true, regarding slots that have a “random” feature that’s not just an amount being played out to match the hit, so to speak…..Of course were going to talk, BONANZA.

How was it possible for “Pinnit’s” bonus round total, to be added to his balance, when he got logged out before pressing START? On logging back in, the feature total had been added.

 

[dunover]

If that’s true, regarding slots that have a “random” feature that’s not just an amount being played out to match the hit, so to speak…..Of course were going to talk, BONANZA.

How was it possible for “Pinnit’s” bonus round total, to be added to his balance, when he got logged out before pressing START? On logging back in, the feature total had been added.

Because the feature had been initiated and then played out without him watching it. All 'start' does is initiate the graphics that represent the spins he would have seen.

 

[spindoctor99]

I think the slot volatility is equally important as is the RTP. The reality is, people have to lose money if someone is going to win money. We all can't win.

If you chose a high volatility slot then you have to expect its more than likely your going to lose. High risk for big returns.
I ignored what the RTP was and would choose the slot based on the volatility level. If I'm only going to be playing on the slot for 100 spins the RTP would not impact the results much.

 

[M!ke]

I think a game's math model is the most important thing a player should consider.

For instance, games with multipled wilds often have very high max wins, which usually makes the base game volatility unbearable.

Examples of games like that are Fireworks (BTG), Wild Portals, Burgers, etc.

Games like Bonanza, More Turkey, etc. have max wins under 30000x and their volatility reflects that. No multiplied wilds or bullshit modifiers that randomly trigger. Just the symbol values and the math.

 

[snorky510238]

Because the feature had been initiated and then played out without him watching it. All 'start' does is initiate the graphics that represent the spins he would have seen.

So just like any other slot, the result is known, the second you hit the feature. I’ll never believe that there is such a thing as a random slot, in the true sense of the word.

I’ve heard it a million times….., Bonanza has a really shitty maths model, Bonanza is so volatile, Bonanza is so complex, Bonanza is this and that…….It isn’t, it’s programmed, just like any other slot ever has been or ever will be.

Ask yourself the question…..Why would BTG go to all that trouble of designing a slot which has an unknown “biggest win”? Why would any developer do that? When they could have done exactly what Blueprint did with Diamond Mine?

They couldn’t possibly have worked out how BTG had done the maths, if it was that complicated, yet they developed a slot that plays exactly like the BTG version.

Give me one good reason why BTG would make a game where the bonus is ALLEGEDLY, mega complicated and switches reel strips and is this that and the other, when it simply doesn’t need to be?

All that BTG ever did was create a myth. Sell something to the player that sounds like it could be magical and mysterious. They don’t know what the max payout is…..what a load of bollox……But it’s great marketing……I’ll give them that.

It’s like owning a big lake and spreading the rumour that nobody’s ever caught the biggest carp in there, but people who’ve seen it estimate that it’s a potential world record……The place would be rammed out…..Until, 8 years later….nobody has seen it, let alone caught it. Fishermen started asking questions and wonder how they fell for the oldest story in the book.

P.S. Dazza, this post isn’t specifically aimed at you. The first paragraph was my reply and I got carried away.

 

[KasinoKing]

So just like any other slot, the result is known, the second you hit the feature. I’ll never believe that there is such a thing as a random slot, in the true sense of the word.

They did used to REELY randon - a bunch of us proved that.
Nearly 20 years ago - GOD how time flies!

Thread 'Cracking the slot reels - Here you go!'

Aug 12, 2007

Alot of people have interest in the reels on the slots, how do they look. I guess we can share with eachother how they infact are mapped. Here are some of mine for you:

Reels in this post:

• Tomb Raider
• Secret Admirer
• Bush Telegraph
• Loaded
• Moonshine

Tomb Raider:
0 - Tomb Raider
1 - Golden Statue
2 - Brown symbol with cogs
3 - Laura Croft
4 - Tiger
5 - A
6 - K
7 - Q
8 - J
9 - 10
10 - Feature trigger

Reel 1 : 0,10,6,5,1,4,3,8,0,7,5,1,6,2,4,1,7,8,3,9,8,1,9,7
Reel 2 : 0,1,7,3,6,7,9,5,2,8,1,3,5,9,7,2,9,10,6,5,4,9,1,6,3,7,8,4...

• steinhaug
• Replies: 175
• Forum: Online Casinos

• 

Oh... the good old days!

KK

 

[snorky510238]

They are just the reel strips though. If they used a true random number generator to determine where each reel stops…..that would be fair enough.

I don’t think they do, I think that’s what we’re lead to believe. After all, you can list the reel sets for a compensated game, so that proves nothing imo.

 

[M!ke]

So just like any other slot, the result is known, the second you hit the feature. I’ll never believe that there is such a thing as a random slot, in the true sense of the word.

I’ve heard it a million times….., Bonanza has a really shitty maths model, Bonanza is so volatile, Bonanza is so complex, Bonanza is this and that…….It isn’t, it’s programmed, just like any other slot ever has been or ever will be.

Ask yourself the question…..Why would BTG go to all that trouble of designing a slot which has an unknown “biggest win”? Why would any developer do that? When they could have done exactly what Blueprint did with Diamond Mine?

They couldn’t possibly have worked out how BTG had done the maths, if it was that complicated, yet they developed a slot that plays exactly like the BTG version.

Give me one good reason why BTG would make a game where the bonus is ALLEGEDLY, mega complicated and switches reel strips and is this that and the other, when it simply doesn’t need to be?

All that BTG ever did was create a myth. Sell something to the player that sounds like it could be magical and mysterious. They don’t know what the max payout is…..what a load of bollox……But it’s great marketing……I’ll give them that.

It’s like owning a big lake and spreading the rumour that nobody’s ever caught the biggest carp in there, but people who’ve seen it estimate that it’s a potential world record……The place would be rammed out…..Until, 8 years later….nobody has seen it, let alone caught it. Fishermen started asking questions and wonder how they fell for the oldest story in the book.

P.S. Dazza, this post isn’t specifically aimed at you. The first paragraph was my reply and I got carried away.

I agree. The game has been played for a decade now. That's basically a decade of people auditing it and no wins are known to have break what? 18000?

 

[snorky510238]

I agree. The game has been played for a decade now. That's basically a decade of people auditing it and no wins are known to have break what? 18000?

I had over 5,000 bonuses and never broke x5,000, with only 1 over x4,000.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

So lucky.

 

[snorky510238]

So lucky.

Unbelievably lucky! I needed a diamond on reel 1 and only had one space available, and it dropped.

 

[M!ke]

Unbelievably lucky! I needed a diamond on reel 1 and only had one space available, and it dropped.

View attachment 216727
View attachment 216728

Oh, that's just beautiful.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Yes I remember that from yesteryear.

 

[avfcalex23]

In short, from my experience, yes.

 

[KasinoKing]

They are just the reel strips though. If they used a true random number generator to determine where each reel stops…..that would be fair enough.

I don’t think they do, I think that’s what we’re lead to believe. After all, you can list the reel sets for a compensated game, so that proves nothing imo.

They USED to be truly random - I am 100% convinced of that.
But that was the ORIGINAL games - back in the naughties...

When they converted those old "flash" games to HTML5, the mechanics was completely changed - now those games ARE just the same as all the others - glorified scratchcards

The RTP's are lower now, which actually proves that they changed them.
Like you said, the reel strips are now totally irrelevant. - they can change the RTP & variance of games at will.

Most modern games don't even have "reel strips" - they are created on the fly.
A really good example of this is 4 Fantastic Fish, where you will often glimpse 2 bonus symbols on the same reel, only 1 or 2 symbols apart... but 2 bonus symbols NEVER appear on the same reel when the reels stop spinning.

Here's a couple of examples...

As you can see, I got the bonus in that first shot... but it only paid about 7x

KK

 

[snorky510238]

Yes, loads of games are guilty of the misrepresentation as you watch the reels spin and land. Two that I remember that stood out were DoA and Napoleon. They would show scatters two spaces apart when the reels bounced upon landing, but in actual fact, there could never be two in the frame, on the same reel.

 

[M!ke]

I've played Gallo Gold Bruno's Megaways and have seen, without a cascade, two scatters come out on one reel sometimes. Does that signify anything?

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

No

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

RTP is bull only in the sense that it masks the house edge. Agree that we take 4% from every bet sounds way less positive than we return 96 percent on every bet. Instead of negative 4 you get positive 96. Pure manipulation. This technique is called sludge.

Otherwise everything matches the stated specifications. And as already mentioned above, you can't calculate RTP from the deposit. It's calculated from total bet.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

If you were around playing slots pre say 2020/21 you will know how much the landscape of online casinos and RTP have changed. If you don't think RTP is a major factor in the demise of the industry then you simply haven't being playing online slots long enough.

 

[SYPlayer95]

In short, from my experience, yes.

It's not. You've just experience the better side of short term variance.

 

[PeenyBunslinger]

If you were around playing slots pre say 2020/21 you will know how much the landscape of online casinos and RTP have changed. If you don't think RTP is a major factor in the demise of the industry then you simply haven't being playing online slots long enough.

I was playing then and I'm still not sure what you mean. How has the RTP landscape changed and how's it a factor in the demise of the industry? Presumably when you say demise you mean from a consumer perspective.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

I was playing then and I'm still not sure what you mean. How has the RTP landscape changed and how's it a factor in the demise of the industry? Presumably when you say demise you mean from a consumer perspective.

Of course I mean from a consumer perspective. I wouldn't be playing at casinos online if I owned one.

 

[M!ke]

... you can't calculate RTP from the deposit. It's calculated from total bet.

This is useful for perspective because I feel like it can offer a more practical idea of a game's volatility.

For instance, if a game's max base win is 26000x, that's one volatile motherfucker, cause a single wager can have an RTP between 0 and 26000%? I don't know if that math is correct.

 

[satchnz]

I was playing then and I'm still not sure what you mean. How has the RTP landscape changed and how's it a factor in the demise of the industry? Presumably when you say demise you mean from a consumer perspective.

It’s not only RTP, it’s also volatility. If you don’t think RTP makes a difference then why do you think casinos are reducing them? It’s certainly not to give you a better experience.

 

[PeenyBunslinger]

It’s not only RTP, it’s also volatility. If you don’t think RTP makes a difference then why do you think casinos are reducing them? It’s certainly not to give you a better experience.

I didn't say RTP doesn't make a difference, I only asked him to explain what he's talking about.

 

[SYPlayer95]

It’s not only RTP, it’s also volatility. If you don’t think RTP makes a difference then why do you think casinos are reducing them? It’s certainly not to give you a better experience.

Agreed. You could play a game at 10% RTP, but still get a monster winner. It would just be the first and last big win probably

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

This is useful for perspective because I feel like it can offer a more practical idea of a game's volatility.

For instance, if a game's max base win is 26000x, that's one volatile motherfucker, cause a single wager can have an RTP between 0 and 26000%? I don't know if that math is correct.

I used to think the same way but that's absolutely not the case.

This is true if you're comparing a bet on a number in regular roulette where there are 37 numbers and roulette with 100 numbers (yes, that version of roulette exists online).

But in slots the wins aren't equally probable. So if a 26,000 win happens 1 time out of 100 billion, it doesn't affect volatility at all!!!

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

If you were around playing slots pre say 2020/21 you will know how much the landscape of online casinos and RTP have changed. If you don't think RTP is a major factor in the demise of the industry then you simply haven't being playing online slots long enough.

What demise are you talking about? The industry grows by double digit percentages every year.

 

[lukey141]

I've spun games on 96/95/94/92%, the same games. You absolutely notice the less common hits and worse hits as the RTP drops.

Of course if you only do a small sample you can get the shaft at the highest RTP while getting a max win on the lowest but over a period of time that lost % really adds up.

There was a game I was addicted to several years ago, Wild Wild Riches. I would play that all the time. There was a site I was up over £5000 on that game alone on £5-£10 bets. One day I started playing and the 'wild wild' feature kept bricking out and the bonus was nowhere to be seen. Of course I just put it down to a bad run but after spinning through several deposits with nothing to show for it I looked at the RTP and to my horror and disgust noticed they had lowered the rtp from the 96 to 95% version. Give it's not exactly a popular game I think literally because I was printing so much on it they did it for me lol. Needless to say since then I always check a game RTP every time before I start spinning. Point is the difference was incredibly noticeable which is why I firmly believe it matters a lot.

 

[satchnz]

I didn't say RTP doesn't make a difference, I only asked him to explain what he's talking about.

Sorry, misunderstood.

 

[johnnymcc1966]

What demise are you talking about? The industry grows by double digit percentages every year.

I've already answered this as relates to us punters,not the owners of the casinos. We are getting screwed by lower RTPs,fewer bonuses and games designed for heavy gamblers or streamers and not the regular guys and girls.

 

[coinsmaniac]

Depends. The math should work, but for me it's more like a theory.

 

[cashstash420]

Im pretty sure a.i is used now days to adapt to a players habits I've noticed on a site won't name everytime I take a break and come back I have a winning run the bonus offers etc flow if I stick around I lose rinse repeat many times I have joined a site instantly win then dead call me crazy

 

[LoopsterAU]

Im pretty sure a.i is used now days to adapt to a players habits I've noticed on a site won't name everytime I take a break and come back I have a winning run the bonus offers etc flow if I stick around I lose rinse repeat many times I have joined a site instantly win then dead call me crazy

My fav quote I like to tell all fellow gamblers is

"we think we are learning the game but its actually the opposite, the game is learning us"

 

[LoopsterAU]

Some of the best lucky runs i've had is when changing from playing my regular games to just going into random games I have never played before.

 

[cashstash420]

Some of the best lucky runs i've had is when changing from playing my regular games to just going into random games I have never played before.

I thought I had a staple lol it worked for a lil while even sent my brother money told him spam 2 dollar spins watch..... it actually worked ..I'm done for a while taking a break I'll just be a normal person playing lotto and sports betting lol I hit a multi last Sunday nailed the whole main card on UFC total retard only put 10 down won 570 I waste 1000s on shit slots biggest regret of my life lol

 

[LoopsterAU]

I thought I had a staple lol it worked for a lil while even sent my brother money told him spam 2 dollar spins watch..... it actually worked ..I'm done for a while taking a break I'll just be a normal person playing lotto and sports betting lol I hit a multi last Sunday nailed the whole main card on UFC total retard only put 10 down won 570 I waste 1000s on shit slots biggest regret of my life lol

Sports betting can be even worse... when doing multi's 90% of the time that big win is 1 off, theres always that one leg that has to fail.

One of my mates did a 20 leg multi with a $5 bet once and hit 19 of them, would have been 100k, he lost it bad when the result hit.