Is R.T.P. a misnomer and are its percentages misleading to customers?

[zreb]

If my pc can handle it I think I might start using it. But ignorance is sometimes bliss, if I find my rtp is 60% on a slot am I more likely to then chase on the basis of the law of large numbers or an overdue rtp correction, or if it's the other way 120% stop playing a game when it could still be a good game to play...

Everything is tracking us online in one way or another but you can never be too careful I guess.

You might already understand this, but just in case, the law of large numbers only works in percentages.

For example, maybe you flip a coin 100 times and get 40 heads, for 40%. Say you flip it another 900 times and end up with a total, including the first 100 flips, of 450 heads. The percentage is now better at 45%, but you're another 40 flips below average. (Though you could just as easily have ended up with 530 heads after the first 100).

So while the percentage will tend towards the average over the long run, it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not continuing to play the slot will improve or worsen your results. It's not really that the RTP "corrects," rather, there's simply more results to drown them out - and in some cases, that drowning out would involve substantially more losses or winnings (technically it's difference from the average, which favors the casino at 96% or whatever for that particular game, so it takes more and more difficult to achieve amounts of luck to stay above 100% in the long run - since that's 4% over the average - but your losses are basically unlimited.)

In other words, there's no need to avoid playing a game you've done well on or to keep trying at a game that's gone badly. Your odds of winning or losing are the exact same as when you started, regardless of previous results. So best to just play whatever would make you happy, whatever you enjoy, whatever has the variance or win potential you're looking for, etc.

 

[Valhalla]

You're opening up a whole world of hell for yourself, as your stats could well read like 'misery fiction' after a few months lol.

Yeah I thought better of it in the end. Was thinking of that other thread (are you up or down?), and while I said "I'm certain I'm down", I don't actually know. And do I really want to know? No I do not.

 

[Harry_BKK]

yeah it should be fun I hope they do a high standard/production value job on it, take aspects of the original graphics and sounds but bring it up to date and also have a higher bonus frequency than bonanza, 3 diamonds to get a bonus etc..it may have been the success and style of play of the slot 'primal' megaways that convinced them rhino would transfer well...

Did the review for RR Megaways yesterday.

The design is 99% identical. They removed the top display and slapped the horizontal reel in place. Symbols and background are the same

You will need four diamonds to get 8 free spins initially and three to have it retrigger 8 FS.

In the FS, the multipliers wilds with x2, x3 or x5 appear on reel 2 to 5 and in the horizontal reel. Multipliers are multiplied by each other. On top, you will have the usual Bonanza-style increasing multiplier by x1 for each winning cascade.

A little like Primal on steroids as it has the increasing multiplier and up to 117,649 ways. Volatility probably an 11/10.

I ventured to say that the max potential is somewhere around 50,000x bet. However, max bet is 20 credits, max win is limited to 250,000 credits, so on max bet it is max 12,500x.

 

[mack341]

Did the review for RR Megaways yesterday.

The design is 99% identical. They removed the top display and slapped the horizontal reel in place. Symbols and background are the same

You will need four diamonds to get 8 free spins initially and three to have it retrigger 8 FS.

In the FS, the multipliers wilds with x2, x3 or x5 appear on reel 2 to 5 and in the horizontal reel. Multipliers are multiplied by each other. On top, you will have the usual Bonanza-style increasing multiplier by x1 for each winning cascade.

A little like Primal on steroids as it has the increasing multiplier and up to 117,649 ways. Volatility probably an 11/10.

I ventured to say that the max potential is somewhere around 50,000x bet. However, max bet is 20 credits, max win is limited to 250,000 credits, so on max bet it is max 12,500x.

Harry do you know if the rtp is the same as the original or higher?

 

[Harry_BKK]

Harry do you know if the rtp is the same as the original or higher?

96.18% on RR MW, don't know what it is on the original.

 

[mack341]

96.18% on RR MW, don't know what it is on the original.

I think it's 95.90 %, so that is a marginal increase, I look forwad to giving it a wiz

 

[trancemonkey]

I almost guarantee the feature will be nowhere near as frequent as the original, because multipliers on the reels with unlimited multipliers = huge potential which, with the exception of the streamers, will almost never be seen. I guess it could well be a game that promises the Earth but delivers Uranus.

 

[dionysus]

with the exception of the streamers.

 

[trancemonkey]

View attachment 109233

Personally, i thought my last sentence was more worthy of note

 

[SlotGrinder]

Most bonuses will be triggered in less spins than the "average"

Minimum you can wait for a bonus is 1 spin . Longest you can wait is infinity spins
When you take averages of samples like that then you will usually find that the median will be lower than the average

 

[smcinoz]

One could say its 50%. Equal chance to play and leave in front or behind. Maybe 33% in australia since heaps get you cannot play this slotn in your jurisdiction (yay i won by not losing)

Earlier post about Australia and the variance and returns. I have seen a few bandits here that have hugely different payout values compared to the USA. Buffalo games are a great example that have chance of huge scores in america but its really tough in Oz (unless playing very first buffalo). Will take a picture one day showing difference

 

[smcinoz]

Anyone remember the 'bonus-in-150-spins' days?

No?

Was it RTG that had heaps of slots with guaranteed games. Im sure that outcome is built into the rtp

 

[Casinos Hate Winners]

I am not a fan of the term R.T.P. because I think that it a blanket term that is misleading to players. rtp used in the slot industry and advertised on slots does not explain individual players returns accurately or give the player a realistic idea of what to expect whilst playing slots.

In my opinion it should not be used on slots without other data sets being included too that supply more information to create a more accurate description of that particular game. I think that another problem with slots is the bonus/freespins/feature frequency and how these are divided over any players gaming experience.

I think that the term trp could be interpreted as false advertising and misleading even if the numbers are correct.

I think if a slot has an average feature frequency over the entire worlds play, then there should be a mechanism that can read a players gaming history and automatically issue them a bonus round should they be exceeding the average by a certain percentage. The VAST majority of bonuses do not meet the claimed pay out averages anyway so whats the difference if a player gets a poor bonus round instead of a 20x win? At least the providers could not be seen as falling short on their own claims and the player would get the features they are paying for.

I will use bonanza as an example of what I mean by this. We all know bonanza has the most complaints here about going too long without a feature compared to BTGs touted estimate. Many players, myself included have went up to 5 times more spins than the estimate to trigger a feature and many times when the feature finally comes it is a pathetic return the results of which can be predicted from the first few spins. Not only does this rubbish the providers claim it also brings truly random games into question and this type of play has sowed the seed of doubt in many players minds.

I think this needs to stop because it contradicts what is being claimed and destroys the entire point of a slots session when we do not get bonuses. This is taking the entertainment value away and rendering it useless and therefore it leaves players frustrated annoyed or angry and just makes the providers claims unbelievable. When something is unbeLIEvable the majority of people that experience this will call Bullsh1t eventually.

Obviously when one player wins big, others must lose to compensate this. Perhaps the only way to ensure all players have better chances is to cap wins in currency values. So no matter your stake there is a max win (that is lower than existing caps now) to ensure more players are getting a return instead of 1000 losers for one winner. It could be 10 winners for 100 losers if the max wins where weighted and capped differently, therefore more happy customers and less people feeling ripped off.

With the gambling industry under the spotlight and casinos getting fined on a monthly basis for ineptitude or breaking player protection laws and igaming getting the most public and political criticism it has had since its inception (except for maybe around black friday when all the poker cheats/thieves where exposed) I think the onus should be all providers to ensure that individual players are not getting undercut in terms of their entertainment value and their cash returns.

What do you guys think about this and do you have any input on the matter? Thanks Mike!

Obviously, that’s not the case. By your logic, if red came up 10 times in a row, does that mean we should now expect 10 blacks?