iNet 23%?

[skiny]

I started playing at iNet recently since I opened my spanking new Moneybookers account and after almost 2500 spins on various games such as Achilles, Honey to the bee, Diamond Dozen... the regulars I was told I am averaging a 23% payout percentage.

I emailed the casino again and asked if this didn't seem a little strange. The casino didn't seem the slightest bit surprised and said that this is quite normal.

I was just wondering who thinks 23% after almost 2500 spins is quite normal?

 

[jelsmith]

 

[blonde]

not normal to me

 

[Pinababy69]

I've had some single sessions Skiny...in excess of 2000 spins, where my return was in the 60 or 70 percent range...at Inet, at 3Dice, at 32Red. But never have I had a session in the 25% vicinity. That is beyond brutal.

Was this one session? Or spread out over a few? Either way, all I can say is that it is due to even out for you...and I hope you have some MONSTER hits coming to you. Cause that's what it will take to get you into the 90's.

That's sick.

 

[lost2much]

Emily?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/////////////////

 

[skiny]

That was over several sessions. I ignored the first few. Then I started to get a bit peaved. Then I emailed.

I've read and been a part of all the high and low variance conversations and the good runs and bad runs. I've seen long term percentages in the 60s to 70s.

I can fully understand over say 500 spins sitting in the 20s or 30s but if a casino's average payout percentage is even at 90% you would think that after a few thousand spins something has to start to level out. It really shouldn't just sit there session after session at 20 to 25%.

I've already given up on it. I've never hit zero so many times one session after another in my life. I'm not going to keep spinning here until I need a random jackpot just to break even. lol

When they said this was normal for slot games to have highs and lows. (I see no highs) I mentioned that I was going to ask here for more opinions. They said I was threatening them. I wasn't aware that discussing our game play with each other here was considered a threat.

We've sent 3 or 4 very short notes back and forth to each other via email since they're probably the only online casino left on the planet without live help and in that time I've already been asked if I want to close my account 3 times.

 

[kakata]

I closed my account there...long ago.
Couple years later I asked em to re-open it...they declained..they said Im a pain in the ass....lol

 

[skiny]

I think some of these casinos need more pain in the ass players.

 

[jelsmith]

I closed my account there...long ago.
Couple years later I asked em to re-open it...they declained..they said Im a pain in the ass....lol

 

[Bencuri]

Well, 23% is terrific, indeed. Accoarding to my own experiences, I can say I wouldn't be surprised if the same would be proved by a professional check.

 

[skiny]

Well, 23% is terrific, indeed. Accoarding to my own experiences, I can say I wouldn't be surprised if the same would be proved by a professional check.

 

[Pinababy69]

That was over several sessions. I ignored the first few. Then I started to get a bit peaved. Then I emailed.

I've read and been a part of all the high and low variance conversations and the good runs and bad runs. I've seen long term percentages in the 60s to 70s.

I fully understand over say 500 spins sitting in the 20s or I can 30s but if a casino's average payout percentage is even at 90% you would think that after a few thousand spins something has to start to level out. It really shouldn't just sit there session after session at 20 to 25%.

I've already given up on it. I've never hit zero so many times one session after another in my life. I'm not going to keep spinning here until I need a random jackpot just to break even. lol

When they said this was normal for slot games to have highs and lows. (I see no highs) I mentioned that I was going to ask here for more opinions. They said I was threatening them. I wasn't aware that discussing our game play with each other here was considered a threat.

We've sent 3 or 4 very short notes back and forth to each other via email since they're probably the only online casino left on the planet without live help and in that time I've already been asked if I want to close my account 3 times.

The fact that it's over several sessions makes it even worse...way worse. If it were one session..I would still think that over 2K spins should have gotten you at least into the 60% range, even with a horrendous run of bad luck. But to "maintain" a 25% RTP over several sessions, with 2500 spins or more, does not seem right to me.

I am not one to judge a casino on whether I win there or not...but I do not blame you one bit for giving up on it after that. I'm afraid those kind of stats would deter even me.

I would love to hear KK's take on it...given his proficiency with stats...and how he tracks every single session he plays ie. number of spins, average bet, payout %, etc. I'd like to know if he has ever had that kind of return over several sessions, at one casino (any software).

 

[chuchu59]

The very least that Inetbet should have done was to agree that the sessions were very brutal and I have seen the likes of Enzo and a few other casino reps stating this. In most cases they offered free chips to pacify the customer. I am not suggesting that Inet should do this but to give players the cold shoulder after such a horrendous run is poor PR to say the least.

I am wondering, even if there was to be an upswing playing the same games, the extra number of spins that will bring Skiny back to a more respectable 85%. 10K spins? 15K spins?

 

[skiny]

I've heard before the game play at this casino was brutal but everyone gets a bad run from time to time.... Actually for me it's the other way around. I get a good run from time to time no matter where I play.

It's true that maybe given enough spins my return would increase. I've heard casinos before state that a few thousand spins isn't a good enough sampling and it takes a million spins before you get a true RTP.

Well, my bucket of quarters isn't that big.

Besides, that million spins should give you pretty much exactly the expected RTP. I'm not trying to park myself dead center of the expected RTP. It would be nice though after this many sessions and spins if I wasn't a hundred miles down the road from it sitting in the swamp.

As for offers, the only thing this casino has offered to do is close my account 3 times.

About 6 emails with about one line each. Almost a slow motion version of live chat (which I can't understand why they don't have.) And in that time they almost seem to be trying to convince me to close my account.

Normally I would have closed my account a long time ago but since they seem so eager for me to ask for it I'm just being stubborn.

 

[Mavin1]

That was over several sessions. I ignored the first few. Then I started to get a bit peaved. Then I emailed.

I've read and been a part of all the high and low variance conversations and the good runs and bad runs. I've seen long term percentages in the 60s to 70s.

I can fully understand over say 500 spins sitting in the 20s or 30s but if a casino's average payout percentage is even at 90% you would think that after a few thousand spins something has to start to level out. It really shouldn't just sit there session after session at 20 to 25%.

I've already given up on it. I've never hit zero so many times one session after another in my life. I'm not going to keep spinning here until I need a random jackpot just to break even. lol

When they said this was normal for slot games to have highs and lows. (I see no highs) I mentioned that I was going to ask here for more opinions. They said I was threatening them. I wasn't aware that discussing our game play with each other here was considered a threat.

We've sent 3 or 4 very short notes back and forth to each other via email since they're probably the only online casino left on the planet without live help and in that time I've already been asked if I want to close my account 3 times.

This comment reflects what has been said and discussed so many times on this forum regarding the RTP and as Silc would say "only to be poo pooed". The sad fact is many players are most likely getting these same results but keep playing because of the pipe dream that eventually the high will come. But I ask where is it? Yes a few players may hit them, but the majority of us are just paying to participate in our own demise, time and time again.
The one draw they have going for them is the random jackpot that keeps players coming back, but after hundreds of dead sessions even hitting a random will most likely never recoupe what has already been invested in a casino.

I have thought about posting a poll for the casino platform with the worst player return based on the players experiences, but not sure how to do one.

 

[lost2much]

Don't bother Mavin, it would be a tie across the board lately!!

 

[NASHVEGAS]

The very least that Inetbet should have done was to agree that the sessions were very brutal and I have seen the likes of Enzo and a few other casino reps stating this. In most cases they offered free chips to pacify the customer. I am not suggesting that Inet should do this but to give players the cold shoulder after such a horrendous run is poor PR to say the least.

I am wondering, even if there was to be an upswing playing the same games, the extra number of spins that will bring Skiny back to a more respectable 85%. 10K spins? 15K spins

Actually it may be possible on his very next spin but really need more info from Skiny to validate my assertion.

 

[De Beuker]

Skiny, did you get this figure from the casino?
23% RTP seems impossible to me...that would truly be the mother of all nightmaresessions!

I'm a real dumbass when it comes to maths, maybe someone can provide a formula to calculate the RTP, but my personal worst session ever was on Rival, when I played through $189 with a $100 starting balance. (0.20/0.30 spins)
Those were alot less than 2500 spins and the RTP is still alot more than 23%..

For RTG, I've played loads of really bad sessions, but I cannot imagine I ever came close to a figure as low as 23%, never.

 

[Cant_Get_Right]

Skiny, did you get this figure from the casino?
23% RTP seems impossible to me...that would truly be the mother of all nightmaresessions!

I'm a real dumbass when it comes to maths, maybe someone can provide a formula to calculate the RTP, but my personal worst session ever was on Rival, when I played through $189 with a $100 starting balance. (0.20/0.30 spins)
Those were alot less than 2500 spins and the RTP is still alot more than 23%..

For RTG, I've played loads of really bad sessions, but I cannot imagine I ever came close to a figure as low as 23%, never.

YEP! I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever deposit into another rival again. I have had those type of returns all too much.

 

[skiny]

Actually it may be possible on his very next spin but really need more info from Skiny to validate my assertion.

I would agree with you 100% if I was playing the highest variance slot game in the universe but Honey To The Bee and Diamond Dozen don't normally make you hit zero for 2200 out of 2250 spins and then get it all back on your 2251st spin.

Skiny, did you get this figure from the casino?
23% RTP seems impossible to me...that would truly be the mother of all nightmaresessions!

I emailed iNetbet and asked for my payout percentage. 23% 2250 spins is what they sent me.

For RTG, I've played loads of really bad sessions, but I cannot imagine I ever came close to a figure as low as 23%, never.

I've had my share of good and bad runs with RTG. Even my really bad runs I'm sure I'm over the 50% mark. 23% over that many sessions is unprecedented for me.

 

[AussieDave]

IMO @ 23% RTP over a few session suxs. Worth a comp even to say...here have some spins on us.

iNebet has dropped the ball lately. Not great when they used to be SO great...


Cheers



Dave

 

[maphesto]

I think that 23% is way to low! I received my answer from them now:

It is 6,815 spins and your payout percentage is 108.5%

I change machine very often.

However, I think that you(Skiny) have probably played at machines that for the moment are tight. And you kept playing at those even if they didnt hit at all. That is of course a guess.
Still, 23% is way too screwed. A few weeks ago they had a lot of RJ winners and the slots seemed pretty loose. Maybe they have days were they are tight?

My own thoughts are like this:

I have read about others who say they cant win at RTG slots. I always think that they are playing "wrong".

I have several 100 000 of spins at RTG casinos during less than a year! I record my screen during play to look for patterns(yes I am kind of wacky) .

At RTG, you HAVE to change machine when 10 spins in a row are bad. The machine will probably not change its behaviour for the next 100 spins.

If someone has won a lot on Honey to the bee just before you start play it will not pay for a long time. RJ is excluded from this.
Its the same if you win over 15$ on Honey to the bee, change machine!

There are a few machines you can stay longer than 10 spins, Outta this world and Paydirt for example. Of course these are the High Variance ones.

At RTG t doesnt help to change betsize either. The same with Microgaming. With Rival its different.

When it comes to RNG its a bit tricky. We know that a special machine has 97,5% payout and still we know that machines has ups and downs. Hmm, really strange..
Some people will call it rigged, I dont anymore.

RTP is calculated from paytable and patterns on reels. A random generator produces numbers on the outcome exactly when the casino receives your "spin click".

So why is the machine totally dead after someone has won over 500$?
I would be the exact same chance to hit again, but its not like that.

My own guess is that the machine automatically turns to "tight mode" until it either resets by time or ackumulates enough money to "let go" again. This is a way to help the machine to be stable at correct RTP. I mean, if RNG was only random many casinos have to close due to many wins.

Sometimes a machine can go the other way, you win on EVERY spin.

These guesses is probably untrue, and I dont have to know exactly how it works. As long as I know that it has its ups and downs and I use the knowledge to win and have fun.

 

[skiny]

If I'm low rolling a couple of coins and a game isn't paying at least 40 or 50% of my wager back over 10 bucks I don't bother hanging around. Like if I have 50 bucks and I spin 25 spins at 40 cents and haven't won back 4 or 5 bucks I get out. Unless its a high variance game like T Rex or Paydirt.

I think I'm a pretty average player. I don't bang my head on games that arn't paying and I don't spin 5 times and leave.

Problem is I'm changing games every 25 or 30 spins because none of them are hitting anything. I did try hanging around a few times to see if they would losen up but I guess the RTP for me is set at 25%

I don't even mind so much over the short term if a casino is paying crap but the off the cuff "this is normal for slot games" kind of got to me. No concern whatsoever. Then they offered to close my account 3 times.

When I said I was going to get more opinions here I was told I was being unreasonable. I sent a note back asking how I was being unreasonable yesterday but that was the end of the conversation.

 

[chuchu59]

Skiny,

Who said you are unreasonable in seeking opinions here?

 

[skiny]

Terry,
I am very sorry that your recent play has been under your expectations.
With Slots play unfortunately this can happen, it can be very cold or very hot, with seemingly no middle ground.
As I said there really is not much else to say when playing Slots, the plus is that if you hit it can be very big for a small outlay, which is I suppose the games attraction.
Please feel free to contact myself or any other member of support if we can be of any further assistance in this or any other matter.
Kind regards.
Emily
iNetBet Manager


Ok, now that you've said that a 23% payout is normal after almost 2500 spins I'll go ask the players at Casinomeister if this should be considered normal or not surprising.
Thanks for your input.

Terry,

We have not said that, you are being very unreasonable, we simply said it can be 'hot and cold', so cold periods can occur.

Threatening to post on Casinomeister (twice) because the slots are not playing as you would like is a little harsh.

Would you like us to close your account?

Regards,

James
iNetBet Manager

 

[kakata]

....thats the way they answer to your (supposed)threath...
...and believe me they dont give s***t.....
I dont recall who said that we,the casinomeister gang, are considered whiners for Inetbet...
well Im considered a pain in the ass....but thats another story

 

[jelsmith]

Terry,
I am very sorry that your recent play has been under your expectations.
With Slots play unfortunately this can happen, it can be very cold or very hot, with seemingly no middle ground.
As I said there really is not much else to say when playing Slots, the plus is that if you hit it can be very big for a small outlay, which is I suppose the games attraction.
Please feel free to contact myself or any other member of support if we can be of any further assistance in this or any other matter.
Kind regards.
Emily
iNetBet Manager


Ok, now that you've said that a 23% payout is normal after almost 2500 spins I'll go ask the players at Casinomeister if this should be considered normal or not surprising.
Thanks for your input.

Terry,

We have not said that, you are being very unreasonable, we simply said it can be 'hot and cold', so cold periods can occur.

Threatening to post on Casinomeister (twice) because the slots are not playing as you would like is a little harsh.

Would you like us to close your account?

Regards,

James
iNetBet Manager

Hmmm...keeping players doesnt seem to their interest.....I dont have an account there....and now I never will

 

[KasinoKing]

I would love to hear KK's take on it...given his proficiency with stats...and how he tracks every single session he plays ie. number of spins, average bet, payout %, etc. I'd like to know if he has ever had that kind of return over several sessions, at one casino (any software).

I emailed iNetbet and asked for my payout percentage. 23% 2250 spins is what they sent me.

I agree with the others that 23% over 2250 spins sounds near enough impossible.
Could the 23% be a mistake?
Do you have any sort of record of your play?
If not, would you tell us how much you lost in those 2250 spins and your bet sizes?

My maths brain is a bit melted at the moment , but I'm pretty sure that if you were playing $1 spins you would have to had lost $1,732 for the return to be 23%.
(Wagers of $2250 x 77% house edge = $1,732 lost)

Lower bets would be pro-rata; e.g. at 40c spins the loss would be $693

Does that tie in with your actual experience?

KK

 

[Pinababy69]

I agree with the others that 23% over 2250 spins sounds near enough impossible.
Could the 23% be a mistake?
Do you have any sort of record of your play?
If not, would you tell us how much you lost in those 2250 spins and your bet sizes?

My maths brain is a bit melted at the moment , but I'm pretty sure that if you were playing $1 spins you would have to had lost $1,732 for the return to be 23%.
(Wagers of $2250 x 77% house edge = $1,732 lost)

Lower bets would be pro-rata; e.g. at 40c spins the loss would be $693

Does that tie in with your actual experience?

KK

Thanks KK...I keep thinking about it and it just sounds so outside any sort of acceptable parameters.

Skiny, were you playing max lines on all slots as well? Or less? I know myself sometimes on certain slots, I will only play 10 or 15 lines. It does increase the variance a certain amount.

I really think it would be worthwhile for you to make a formal request for your playlogs from Inetbet, which I'm guessing they will have to contact RTG to obtain. If that makes you a pain in the ass, I guess that's too bad. I love Inetbet, but can't say I'm overly impressed with the way this has been handled at all.

And I still can't get my head around 23%!! The more details, the better I would think....that's only if you don't mind.

But as KK said, even if you could tell us roughly how much you lost and your average bet size, the max lines thing...that would help.

 

[skiny]

Max lines, 1, 2 or 3 coin. 3 is pretty rare since I'm hitting zero over and over. Zero bonus features, almost every spin winning about a nickle or less.

I knew the play was rough. I let it slide for a while and then asked.

----- Original Message -----
From: support inetbet
To: Terry

Real-Series Video Slots
Games played.......Turnover..............Net Loss..............%
2,225..................$665.28...............$154.98...............23.3


----- Original Message -----
From: Terry
From: support inetbet

You find nothing strange after 2225 spins I'm running a 23% payout percentage?

----- Original Message -----
From: support inetbet
To: Terry

Terry,
I am very sorry that your recent play has been under your expectations....

---------------------------

I posted the rest earlier.

 

[De Beuker]

They did not give you the RTP percentage, but your net. loss percentage, thats whats caused some confusion.

The RTP is 76.7%, still very bad, but at least a bit more realistic.

Not cool how Inet handled this tough.. shall we close your account? pfff..

 

[Pinababy69]

They did not give you the RTP percentage, but your net. loss percentage, thats whats caused some confusion.

The RTP is 76.7%, still very bad, but at least a bit more realistic.

Not cool how Inet handled this tough.. shall we close your account? pfff..

Thank God for that. Yes, it's bad, but nothing anywhere close to 23%. This has been bugging me since last night.

Why in God's name give the player their loss %, as opposed to their RTP? They had to have known that's what Skiny meant?

And I agree that their offers to close the account sure don't leave one with a warm fuzzy feeling. Alot of this all stems from them providing the wrong figure in the first place. More than once Skiny referred to a 23% PAYOUT, and they never clarified it, or realized the error? Geesh. And why provide a loss % in the first place?

 

[skiny]

I'm more surprised by over 70% since my deposits didn't last more than 5 or 10 minutes and I rarely if ever hit more than half my wager.

 

[lost2much]

I know how you feel Skiny, when I complained about the piss poor play of the slots I got the exact same response from Emily (verbatum)!! The canned response bit gets really old. It makes you feel like they are treating you like a child. Hey Emily, do you really think I don't know that slots are up and down overall and that I could hit the big one at any time?? No Shit Sherlock!! I'll let you guys know if she closes my account for calling her out on this.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'm more surprised by over 70% since my deposits didn't last more than 5 or 10 minutes and I rarely if ever hit more than half my wager.

With the correct figure, and the small sample, this IS normal. It does not matter whether this was one session, or many, the games are random, and random doesn't care whether all games were played at once, or over several days/weeks/months/years.........

 

[chuchu59]

Terry,
I am very sorry that your recent play has been under your expectations.
With Slots play unfortunately this can happen, it can be very cold or very hot, with seemingly no middle ground.
As I said there really is not much else to say when playing Slots, the plus is that if you hit it can be very big for a small outlay, which is I suppose the games attraction.
Please feel free to contact myself or any other member of support if we can be of any further assistance in this or any other matter.
Kind regards.
Emily
iNetBet Manager


Ok, now that you've said that a 23% payout is normal after almost 2500 spins I'll go ask the players at Casinomeister if this should be considered normal or not surprising.
Thanks for your input.

Terry,

We have not said that, you are being very unreasonable, we simply said it can be 'hot and cold', so cold periods can occur.

Threatening to post on Casinomeister (twice) because the slots are not playing as you would like is a little harsh.

Would you like us to close your account?

Regards,

James
iNetBet Manager

Where is the threat? Asking for opinions on a 23% return on slots over 2000+ spins on max. lines is simply obtaining feedback from experienced slot players. Inet's attitude leaves a lot to be desired.

The casino was so intent on rebutting Skiny's stance that they completely overlooked the fact that it was a 76.7% return and not 23.3% as Skiny had thought. At the end of the conversation, rather than trying to pacify the customer, they offered to close the account. Such cheek!

I recall contacting them more than a year ago to complain about the brutal Baccarat sessions. I bet on Banker and lost 11 games in a row. They wrote back and told me that they did not see that losing sequence and when I mischieviously told them that since the losing sequence did not exist I demanded a refund (I had the logs to prove it) they told me I had a 8 game winning sequence and they did not ask me for a refund then.

Whenever customers are unhappy, instead of easing the tension this casino is tops in turning up the heat and aggravating customers even more.

This whole issue could have been avoided if they could pay more attention to the customer and his concerns. 23.3% RTP is unreal and I seriously doubt this would occur over several thousand spins. Instead, the rep turned a blind eye over the figures and continued to argue with the customer implying that Skiny had read the figures correctly. Maybe they are trained to do so and refute everything that the customer says whenever they are complaint-related.

 

[footdr]

Regarding InetBet....

The casino is very very streaky. I recently cashedin 4000.00 which is my hightest after playing there over 3 years.

I don't usually deposit much and play with bonus when I can. Seems like I win larger amount per spin when I bet low.

I normally play there only when I have a large payout to my QT account.