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[IN PROGRESS] Luckyacecasino - bonus "abuse" problem

Back on track:

Sometimes things move pretty fast here at Casinomeister. I've just gotten off the phone with the owner of Lucky Ace and he has assured me that all players who met the wagering requirements will have their deposits returned and winnings honored. We are in 100% agreement on how a casino should handle "advantage" players - I've already stated what my philosophy is a number of times - it's been referenced numerously as in 8 Feb 2006's newsletter https://www.casinomeister.com/static/newsletter/2006/9february2006.html (geeze - that was two years ago almost to the day).

Like I mentioned in the Rogue Pit - I'll be glad to remove them when this issue is totally cleared up.
 
Further on this I should mention that all Lucky Ace PABs have today been submitted to an appointed Lucky Ace/888 representative, excepting two that have been discarded and four that have already been resolved.

So at this point they have your issues in hand. Combine that with Bryan's progress report and I'd say we might hope for good things in the coming days. As mentioned, I'd appreciate hearing if and when the PAB participants actually receive their monies.

Based on recent events I'm going to upgrade this thread to "In Progress".
 
Back on track:

Sometimes things move pretty fast here at Casinomeister. I've just gotten off the phone with the owner of Lucky Ace and he has assured me that all players who met the wagering requirements will have their deposits returned and winnings honored. We are in 100% agreement on how a casino should handle "advantage" players - I've already stated what my philosophy is a number of times - it's been referenced numerously as in 8 Feb 2006's newsletter https://www.casinomeister.com/static/newsletter/2006/9february2006.html (geeze - that was two years ago almost to the day).

Like I mentioned in the Rogue Pit - I'll be glad to remove them when this issue is totally cleared up.

Just one question.

Having been ignored for too long I was going to try calling 888 tonight to see if any joy there.

Knowing what I know now...is there any point still?

Cheers
gooner
 
In a case like yours -- first post, saying good things about a casino that everyone else has had probs with -- it's natural for old hands like winbig to look slightly askance at what you're saying.

Ok, that's perfectly understandable. I guess I would feel the same way. I'm just happy to put this thing behind me.. I've never had trouble getting my money from any site, so it would've been unpleasant to get into such trouble now, and for a sizeable amount - over $1k.
 
Well, I was able to track down who "fender1" was. I passed this over to Max. At the time, he (she?) was running a "bonus whoring" website & forum on "websitetoolbox". This seemed to be the forum section of the "Online Blackjack Guide", a website promoting Blackjack friendly SUB's and Monthly reloads. This site had been promoting Lucky Ace due to it's +EV SUB with Blackjack allowed. When this problem broke, players from that site were not getting paid, however, there were no actual terms and conditions at Lucky Ace that would prohibit the low stakes grinding out of WR that is promoted by this site. It seemed to me that Fender1 had come here seeking views and help, and to publicise the problems.

Clearly, Kamay went on a spamming offensive to persuade affiliates to promote their new Lucky Ace brand, and some affiliates mentioned here that kamay simply would not take "NO" for an answer, and flooded reluctant affiliates with up to 6 requests to promote them per day, often seeming to come from different "persons" within the organisations.
With this in mind, is it any wonder that Kamay and Lucky Ace found themselves in this situation, as it is very likely that mainly those affiliates that ran "whoring" sites would be the ones receptive to the spamming onslaught, since they would be able to make money themselves, and market an "easy" SUB to players.
The result of this seems to be that Lucky Ace has primarily found itself saddled with "advantage players", who have played Blackjack, and WITHIN THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, but mainly in order to extract the +EV from the SUB (this is probably what Lucky ace are seeing as "bonus abuse").
Because of this healthy +EV, player fraud was bound to follow, with players seeking to have more than one go at this SUB. They may have made the mistake of using the affiliate links again to create their second or more bogus accounts, and were possibly caught by a method similar to that employed by Bryan to finally expose Fender1 as having created TWO accounts here in order to post to himself in this thread.

IF Fender1, who is down as "staff" on his website forum, was prepared to create a bogus account here to further his cause, this must cast doubt to the honesty of his own website and forum, and particularly to what constitutes the "advanced methods" contained within the password protected VIP section of the forum. Perhaps these "advanced methods" relate not to game strategy, but to activities that might cross the line between "advantage play" and "player fraud" - perhaps schemes that advocate the "borrowing" of a friend's ID for a fee in order to play the SUB more than once - perhaps deemed "advantage play" because the ID is borrowed with the full agreement with the owner, rather than having been stolen as in more traditional forms of ID theft and misuse.

It might be interesting to see what Fender1 is now saying about Casinomeister, Bryan, and Max over at his place now, and maybe what he has to say about ME if he happens to read this thread again;)
This is one of the reasons that I have shut down the PAB section for newbie members in the past. Abusive newbie members who add nothing to this forum but a complaint.

Here we have a rogue webmaster/staff/whatever you want to call it - push a casino that he can't back up at his own forum. The affiliate runs over here - disrespects this forum, the members, and the mods - bullshits everyone by opening two accounts and has a conversation with himself. :lolup:

How embarrassing for him since all of his members have come to realize that he is a liar and a total phony. I couldn't care less what he has to say about me or Casinomeister; he showed his true colors over here.
 
After several days of my absence I've finally read all posts here.
I should say that I'm glad that most players received their money from LuckyAce, I'm glad that Bryan put them to the rogue section.

Today I've also received an email from Elen Garth where she said:
Regarding the issue you mentioned about closed accounts and bonus abuse questions as you know, we are a white label of 888, and thus all actions on the operations side are managed by them. 888 has 10 years of experience and reputation in the field, and I am sure they are managing the player-related issues in a highly professional and efficient manner. If you have a specific issue you would like me to check, please feel free to contact me.

So how about 888.com? If they are so trusted how they can manage all operations of LuckyAceCasino, which had so many complaints from players?
 
Well, I was able to track down who "fender1" was. I passed this over to Max. At the time, he (she?) was running a "bonus whoring" website & forum on "websitetoolbox". This seemed to be the forum section of the "Online Blackjack Guide", a website promoting Blackjack friendly SUB's and Monthly reloads. This site had been promoting Lucky Ace due to it's +EV SUB with Blackjack allowed. When this problem broke, players from that site were not getting paid, however, there were no actual terms and conditions at Lucky Ace that would prohibit the low stakes grinding out of WR that is promoted by this site. It seemed to me that Fender1 had come here seeking views and help, and to publicise the problems.

Clearly, Kamay went on a spamming offensive to persuade affiliates to promote their new Lucky Ace brand, and some affiliates mentioned here that kamay simply would not take "NO" for an answer, and flooded reluctant affiliates with up to 6 requests to promote them per day, often seeming to come from different "persons" within the organisations.
With this in mind, is it any wonder that Kamay and Lucky Ace found themselves in this situation, as it is very likely that mainly those affiliates that ran "whoring" sites would be the ones receptive to the spamming onslaught, since they would be able to make money themselves, and market an "easy" SUB to players.
The result of this seems to be that Lucky Ace has primarily found itself saddled with "advantage players", who have played Blackjack, and WITHIN THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, but mainly in order to extract the +EV from the SUB (this is probably what Lucky ace are seeing as "bonus abuse").
Because of this healthy +EV, player fraud was bound to follow, with players seeking to have more than one go at this SUB. They may have made the mistake of using the affiliate links again to create their second or more bogus accounts, and were possibly caught by a method similar to that employed by Bryan to finally expose Fender1 as having created TWO accounts here in order to post to himself in this thread.

IF Fender1, who is down as "staff" on his website forum, was prepared to create a bogus account here to further his cause, this must cast doubt to the honesty of his own website and forum, and particularly to what constitutes the "advanced methods" contained within the password protected VIP section of the forum. Perhaps these "advanced methods" relate not to game strategy, but to activities that might cross the line between "advantage play" and "player fraud" - perhaps schemes that advocate the "borrowing" of a friend's ID for a fee in order to play the SUB more than once - perhaps deemed "advantage play" because the ID is borrowed with the full agreement with the owner, rather than having been stolen as in more traditional forms of ID theft and misuse.

It might be interesting to see what Fender1 is now saying about Casinomeister, Bryan, and Max over at his place now, and maybe what he has to say about ME if he happens to read this thread again;)
Last month, some content from my site was copied and posted over there (with some minor changes). The manager was quite helpful and removed the content almost immediately after I let him know about the issue. I was told that the responsible party was suspended/terminated. In the minor changes to the content, a spelling error was introduced. Interwetten was spelled as "Interwitten"... the same spelling error that is in Fender1's profile on this site.
 
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All I can say is wow, Max, Bryan, v/w and simmo you guys deserve a BIg pat on the back for all your efforts both on the front lines and behind the scenes.

Still very new to all this online casino stuff,
but since I have been a member from March last year I actually do see now how much all you guys do, a lot of the times you dont even get a thanks or even a wink to say good job.

All of this for little reward.

You guys have definatley encourouged me to be vigilant, patient and put a little bit of spark back in me to try and do the same....

Thanks guys your a great bunch of people and I know that jesus has a spot in casino heaven for you all.

Not to take away from all you other great bunch either you all do great work also... Im glad to be a member of this

forum

I'am going to make a donation to one of Bryan's charity's as a thank you.
a lazy $20 should do it
 
Whew. That is one long thread.

It seems to me that when people started screwing around with how their search engine results popped up is when they had an attitude adjustment.

Also, this sure does remind me of the Grief Club situation with the same 888.com having nothing to do with anything (yeah):rolleyes:

Anyways it looks like they are gonna pay the piper in the end just like most of the others who try to pull these stunts.

Every one of these situations that is resolved in the end makes Casinmeister more and more respected. And it is so well deserved.
 
Hi,

I received my winnings from Luckyace today.

I didn't ever PAB here , I think threatening them with the Gibraltar Licensing authority has the most effect .
 
I think it may be a combination of several points of pressure, both public and private but in my opinion the main thing here is that screwed players who got together and made an issue of this have been unscrewed.

I suspect that others out there who haven't yet discovered the persuasive powers of the major online gambling message boards will remain screwed - these Luckyace-888 guys haven't displayed the sort of integrity that indicates they are going to look after those.

Edited to add the observation that for Max as the PAB manager here this was some baptism of fire - talk about a steep learning curve LOL! Well done, Max!
 
I also have the email saying they will pay me my outstanding funds ($700+)

I did threaten them with various actions including the GRA over a 4 day period , I did not PAB though.

Hope the rest of you guys get paid.

Hi,

I received my winnings from Luckyace today.

I didn't ever PAB here , I think threatening them with the Gibraltar Licensing authority has the most effect .

You're repeating yourself. Why might that be?

If I was a suspicious minded person I'd say you've got a bit of an axe to grind.

I think it may be a combination of several points of pressure, both public and private

Quite so! There's obviously the thread here, the PABs, my pressure on the reps, Bryan's talks with the head guys at LA, whatever may have happened via Gibralter, other boards I'm sure, and last but not least eCOGRA who do have a relationship with 888. That's a lot of bullets in the clip, if you want to look at it that way, and who's to say which one felled the beast.
 
LuckyAces.com Casino Contact

Well, this thread has certainly been a baptism of fire... I need new glasses after trawling through all thirty-free pages!

Please allow me to introduce myself: my username is Incubus1 and I am the forum moderator at 888.com (Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) ). I shall act as the liasion between 888.com and any Casinomeister members. I shall endevour to resolve any disputes as quickly and amicably as possible.

Firstly, I invite any members who do not have an account at the forums at 888.com to open one soonest. I prepare a daily report of 'must-do' action items and it is extremely likely that any problem you may have can be dealt with by myself in the shortest possible time.

Now, back on track: I have been liasing with Max with regards to a number of 'PAB' issues he is managing on your behalf. I had hoped to have the issues resolved last week, but illness forced me from the office. To Max et al, apologies.

Reading through the thread I note that many of your issues are now being dealt with in a professional and satisfactory manner. This is pleasing. However, I can assure you all that each and every PAB forwarded to myself will receive a personal response, Max will be cc'd into the corrospondance.

If you need to contact me directly, my email address is: [email protected].

Here's to a constructive and fruitful future.

Incubus1
 
Well, this thread has certainly been a baptism of fire... I need new glasses after trawling through all thirty-free pages!

Please allow me to introduce myself: my username is Incubus1 and I am the forum moderator at 888.com (Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) ). I shall act as the liasion between 888.com and any Casinomeister members. I shall endevour to resolve any disputes as quickly and amicably as possible.

Firstly, I invite any members who do not have an account at the forums at 888.com to open one soonest. I prepare a daily report of 'must-do' action items and it is extremely likely that any problem you may have can be dealt with by myself in the shortest possible time.

Now, back on track: I have been liasing with Max with regards to a number of 'PAB' issues he is managing on your behalf. I had hoped to have the issues resolved last week, but illness forced me from the office. To Max et al, apologies.

Reading through the thread I note that many of your issues are now being dealt with in a professional and satisfactory manner. This is pleasing. However, I can assure you all that each and every PAB forwarded to myself will receive a personal response, Max will be cc'd into the corrospondance.

If you need to contact me directly, my email address is: [email protected].

Here's to a constructive and fruitful future.

Incubus1

May I just say how good it is to finally hear some positive response at long last:thumbsup:

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.
 
It's good to see a closer involvement and hopefully rapport with the players...here's hoping the relationship lasts long enough to be truly fruitful for all concerned.

But, jeez, bro where did you come up with that nickname LOL!!!!

Incubus:

1. an imaginary demon or evil spirit supposed to descend upon sleeping persons, esp. one fabled to have sexual intercourse with women during their sleep. Compare succubus (def. 1).

2. a nightmare.

3. something that weighs upon or oppresses one like a nightmare.
 
You're repeating yourself. Why might that be?

If I was a suspicious minded person I'd say you've got a bit of an axe to grind.

Max, I understand your not the sharpest knife , but one post is to say I got an email promising payment, the other is to say I actually received payment, does that help?

Casinomeister:And this is based on...?

Based on the fact that I did not PAB but I did threaten them with Gibralter licensing , I had my email 24 hours later promising payment, whilst you were on holiday and max was moaning about his workload and noobs turning up.

My advice to anyone is stick to the official methods to make your case, the more of you who use Gibraltar licensing for your complaint the more they will pay and take notice.

I am sure Max and Casinomeister want to take some credit here, but to be frank last week what was happening here was a sad fiasco and it only has to do with the GRA, PAB by all means, after all its free, but the greasy wheel gets the oil www.gra.gi .
 
Just to add before I go.

Max's attitude last week towards bonus plays

and yours (casino meister) in your newsletter are continents apart.

Max did this site a great deal of damage last week, and not just to trolls, he let you down.
 
talk is cheap... actions are what count.


incubus1 said:
Firstly, I invite any members who do not have an account at the forums at 888.com to open one soonest.
Firstly, why would anyone want to join your forum, when they can communicate with you here? You guys at 888 wouldn't be trying to get more email addresses to spam would you now?? :rolleyes:

Just to add before I go.
On the way out, don't let the door hit you where the good lord split you...
 
Got a reply from cassava today. They still stuck to the point that I had been abusing bonus but promised to pay my winnings. Just wondering if they are going to pay the players who stay silent. Anyone who hasn't been been in contact lately with cassava got the "reviewed by senior management" email? Max I'll PM you as soon as I receive the money.
 
Got a reply from cassava today. They still stuck to the point that I had been abusing bonus but promised to pay my winnings. Just wondering if they are going to pay the players who stay silent. Anyone who hasn't been been in contact lately with cassava got the "reviewed by senior management" email? Max I'll PM you as soon as I receive the money.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it? I'm also still wondering about the poor souls who lost, and who are marked 'abusers', but won't know it till they deposit again. Because I really doubt very much that Luckyace is also returning deposits to losing bonus 'abusers'.
 
Let's drop the insults. They are paying the majority of people it looks like.

I'd like to know what all these problems stemmed from. Were you all just depositing, wagering the exact minimum at very low blackjack bets then cashing out?

This did not seem to be the case. Some players were betting at $5 and $10, varying stakes, and playing other games, yet STILL got the "bonus abuse" excuse for non-payment.

There was no issue with claiming bonuses at more than one 888.com site, as some players reported that Lucky Ace support (which is really 888.com support anyway), said it was OK to have the Lucky Ace SUB if they had previously claimed the SUB at the main 888.com site. If support were wrong, the casino should pay EVERYONE, not just the "squeaky wheels".
If there is a wider issue here, the 888 rep should come clean as to what caused this mess in the first place, and why it was allowed to run for 2 weeks before the "clean up team" was called in.
 
This did not seem to be the case. Some players were betting at $5 and $10, varying stakes, and playing other games, yet STILL got the "bonus abuse" excuse for non-payment.

There was no issue with claiming bonuses at more than one 888.com site, as some players reported that Lucky Ace support (which is really 888.com support anyway), said it was OK to have the Lucky Ace SUB if they had previously claimed the SUB at the main 888.com site. If support were wrong, the casino should pay EVERYONE, not just the "squeaky wheels".
If there is a wider issue here, the 888 rep should come clean as to what caused this mess in the first place, and why it was allowed to run for 2 weeks before the "clean up team" was called in.

Well i've still to be contacted by anyone. One more day and then i'm going to take incubus up on his offer and email him directly. Let's see if he's as good as his word.
 
I emailed him a couple of days ago and still waiting for his reply.

Not an auspicious start for our Incubus - an acknowledgement of receipt of the appeal would be nice and businesslike even if it takes a couple more days to actually look into the individual cases.

Maybe PM him with a repeat to make sure?
 
Ok, I'll grant you that the "Hi, I'm here!" and then nothing but a dial tone is a bit off-putting but ...

FWIW I'm getting a steady trickle of "Thanks, got paid" messages from the PAB folks so maybe he's just busy getting people cashed out. How's that for blazing optimism? :thumbsup:
 
Let's drop the insults. They are paying the majority of people it looks like.

I'd like to know what all these problems stemmed from. Were you all just depositing, wagering the exact minimum at very low blackjack bets then cashing out?

Sorry mate, but they still deserve all the insults..and I am one of those who's actually had their money back...though they've still banned me from both 888 and luckyace - the 888 banning is particularly amusing as:

a) I only managed to come out with anything at all because of playing excessively on 'city life' (and no, that's not a type of BJ ;) ) on their SUB.

b) I didn't go for another bonus after their SUB, but did deposit twice again.

Oh and on the lucky ace SUB, I spent time between city life and the $5-100 BJ table...with a tad of their not-so-great VP.
 
PS. incubus was on here as recently as yesterday, for whatever that's worth.
 
I'll hold fire for now....

I didn't mean to imply that at all. If you've got something to say to the man I'd say "go for it!" Far be it from me to advise anyone to be irritating but squeaky wheels do get greased ... or replaced! :D:
 
Well we certainly got off to a rocky start but now we're making excellent progress: almost half of the people who filed PABs have now been paid or had their cases otherwise resolved satisfactorily.
 
This is truly good news, but one has to wonder why all this stress and unpleasantness was necessary in the first place.

Apart from the obvious retorts of "It's all about the money" and "bloody crooks" why is it that a highly experienced and successful organisation like 888.com has allowed this farcical situation that so badly prejudiced hundreds of players to develop so far before being addressed?

The frustration and inconvenience to players has been excessive, and the damage to reputation for 888 must have been substantial.

Surely this could have been avoided by a more careful DD before taking Lucky-ass on board as a white label, and by a more immediate monitoring of a leading forum like this one which would have warned 888 how quickly the trainsmash was developing?

It was, after all, 888.com that was handling the transactions and apparently calling the shots which caused this embarrassing debacle.
 
IMO, The problem with 888 has always been their being associated with a group of nasty spammers and using those same spammers to promote their casinos.

In the case of luckyass casinos, 888 rewarded the spammers that work for them with their own casino group... luckyace.
 
I am currently very glad that there are progress being made. However, I am still one of the unlucky ones that havent gotten paid yet. I emailed the 888 operator 4 days ago and still no reply from him. Hopefully I will get my money soon.
 
I am currently very glad that there are progress being made. However, I am still one of the unlucky ones that havent gotten paid yet. I emailed the 888 operator 4 days ago and still no reply from him. Hopefully I will get my money soon.

FWIW, the progress on these issues does seem to be a bit slow, but steady nevertheless. I'm seeing 1 or 2 (PAB) issues resolved per day so, as mentioned, they're almost half way through the list. I wouldn't sweat it just yet.
 

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