[IN PROGRESS] King Neptune's seizes my cashout ...

[sdaddy]

If the player broke the T & C, why are the casino unable to say which term was broken. This only implies the only term "breached" was the "FU Clause", which allows the casino to unilaterally decide whether to pay regardless of individual terms. No LEGITIMATE business would be allowed to behave in this manner toward a paying customer, so if online casinos want to be seen as legitimate they must start to behave like it, and give customers PROPER explanations for any problems they may have, and have a proper, AND EFFECTIVE internal complaints process. making a "final decision" and then ignoring all correspondence are the actions of a "rogue trader".

Amen to that! Regardless of whether or not the casino has a perfectly valid reason for seizing winnings, it has a duty to explain its actions to the affected player.

 

[lots0]

how would you like it if next time your mother-in-law wanted to have a chat she started the conversation by hitting you with the a 2-by-4 and stomped on your toes for good measure.

So Max you've met my mother-in-law, have you...

Seriously, I guess I should have been a little clearer in my last post.

No casino wants bad publicity or someone bad mouthing them all over. That is understandable and I'm well aware that there are people that will make bogus complaints for a variety of reasons.

The bogus complaints should be dealt with like Bryan does here, name, shame and ban.

However, there is also the good publicity that comes from a casino handling a valid complaint in public in a fast and reputable way. People do understand that everyone makes mistakes.... even the casinos. It is how you handle the mistakes that most people judge you by.

I know for myself there have been several casinos I have dealt with ONLY because I have seen their rep handle a public complaint or situation in what I consider to be an open and fair manner.

So, I guess it comes down to, how the casino wants to be viewed by players. It is the casino managements choice, if the casino wants to be viewed as being secretive and shady, looking like they have something hide or out in the open with nothing to hide. I do believe the casinos take a very big risk when they appear to not be completly out in the open and trustworthy, after all this a business based almost entirely on trust.

BTW - I have been working with BelleRock as an affiliate for about seven or eight years and for the most part I think they are one of the best of the best. I just disagree with them on this issue of not wanting to air complaints in public.

 

[edlonger]

Well, great. They sent me my withdrawal statement which has a payment of 100 EUR (my deposit) and seizing my winnings as an "Adjustment."

eCOGRA got back to me today saying they will start the investigation. Who knows how long it will take...

 

[Roar]

BTW - Carmen Media (Bellerock) picked up the Trident Lounge group about a year ago. There were a number of press releases that announced this. It's also archived in our news section. Only recently did Trident Lounge move over to BR completely. It was a slow process, but nevertheless not a surprise.

Will the accredited casino list be amended to reflect that change?

Very confusing.

 

[maxd]

eCOGRA got back to me today saying they will start the investigation....

I should think this would be a positive step forward. Based on this I'm upgrading the thread to "In Progress".

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well, great. They sent me my withdrawal statement which has a payment of 100 EUR (my deposit) and seizing my winnings as an "Adjustment."

eCOGRA got back to me today saying they will start the investigation. Who knows how long it will take...

This should at least get you an explanation. If you are labelled as a "fraud", you will find out, although they will not say how they believe they caught you.
Your story does seem to indicate a "fraud" flag, rather than a straight forward breach of T & C.

It seems things went sour when you sent in your documents, and had this just been a straight forward breach of T & C, they would say so. King Neptune has confiscated winnings before, from a player who played a banned game with the bonus money. This player received a proper reason, that being that they played a banned Video Poker game that resulted in a sizable win from a few lucky hands, and that bonus money was utilised in said play.
Despite the fact they are now using the MG bonus system, casinos will still view certain playing strategies as "bonus abuse". These strategies may be indicated in the T & C, and I believe King Neptune did indeed specify examples of banned strategies for the SUB, these being the "double or nothing" bets with the entire starting bankroll followed by grinding out the remaining WR. If this is what you did here, you will indeed have fallen foul of part of the terms and conditions, although I'm puzzled as to why they wouldn't just say so.

Stick with eCogra for now, you should hear back in a matter of days. Don't take any further (especially public) action until you have a ruling from eCogra - who knows, they may well rule in your favour - I think nearly half the time they do, or at least get a better deal for the player.

While you wait, do NOT OPEN MORE CASINO ACCOUNTS, it is possible that you may be flagged "high risk" on the databases of the risk management companies for many unrelated online casinos, such as "Risk Sentinel", which is used my many Microgaming casinos, and they seem to be connected with ProcCyber, who do much of the processing.

 

[edlonger]

For what it's worth:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

There are no "banned" video poker games or strategies as outlined in the terms and conditions of the bonus.

 

[sdaddy]

There are no "banned" video poker games or strategies as outlined in the terms and conditions of the bonus.

I've been a long-time player at Trident Entertainment Group, and this is how I always remember it: there has never been a "bonus abuse" strategies clause in their promotional T&Cs.

 

[vinylweatherman]

For what it's worth:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

There are no "banned" video poker games or strategies as outlined in the terms and conditions of the bonus.

This is not quite true,

Excluded Games: Game play on all forms of Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Sic Bo, Red Dog, Paigow Poker, Poker Pursuit, Casino War, 3-Card Poker & Progressive Poker Ride will no longer count towards meeting your wagering requirements.

This is actually quite confusing, given that they now use the Microgaming bonus system.

They also have this rule variant (not standard EZBonus).

Players will have to meet wagering requirements before being able to make a withdrawal and will no longer be able to forfeit their bonuses.

The excluded game list is rather odd, as it contains some high house edge games, yet they seem happy for players to grind away at Blackjack.

10% of wagers on:
All forms of: Blackjack; Video, Power & multi-hand Pokers

No actual strategies are forbidden, but they have the "FU Clause", which is what has been used for this player.

Non-compliance with these terms and conditions shall be deemed to be 'Promotion Abuse' and as such shall give Trident Entertainment Group the right, at its sole discretion, to take the following actions against such abusers:
All winnings on any account/s opened will be null and void and all withdrawals will be cancelled where play has been deemed abusive.
Abusing Player accounts may be terminated with immediate effect.
Players found to be abusing promotions may be barred from receiving further promotional offers at the casinos.

In the general terms, there are these two items:-

In addition to the Casino's standard security procedures, the Casino monitors the Player's IP address each time the Player enters this Web site or uses the Casino systems.

The Player or intended Player who attempts to register more than one Real Play account understands and agrees his or her account/s may be subject to investigation and may result in:
all Play and Winnings invalidated; and
any balance in the Player's Casino account being confiscated.

This could also lead to a confiscation of winnings, and could be the result of a shared PC, or even forgetfulness of a long forgotten prior account.

Lastly, unlike MiniVegas and Playshare, currency does not seem to be at issue here.

Credits can be deposited at King Neptune's Casino in US Dollars, British Pound Sterling and Euros. All currencies are deposited and withdrawn for an equal value of: 1 credit = $1 = 1 = €1.

Having claimed a bonus at any BelleRock property is also irrelevant, as the terms governing eligibility for bonuses only make reference to Trident Group, and seem to still allow a bonus at each of the three casinos.
Any changes to the terms resulting from the Carmen Media takeover, and intended merger into Bellerock, are not yet live, so do not count until they are available to bind a player at the time of deposit.

Promotions are open to all Real Money Players at any Trident Entertainment Group Casino (King Neptune's, Trident Lounge and Vegas USA).
Strictly one Real Account per Household is permitted. Bonuses may be claimed only once per person, family, household address, e-mail address, credit card number, and environments where computers are shared (e.g. university, school, public library, workplace etc.).
Employees, officers and directors of Trident Entertainment Group, its promotional or other agencies, licensees and licensors, service providers and any other associated or affiliated companies shall not be eligible for entry.
The same terms shall apply to the direct families of such persons.

Annoyingly, I STILL get the exit pop-up trying to get me to take the SUB at the other one, Trident Lounge, on leaving the King Neptune site, so there is NO WAY the rep is going to argue their way out of this one with the "one group bonus" story. It is the responsibility of Carmen Media to close the registration system to new signups if they are intending to not honour the currently posted terms.
I personally have NEVER been contacted as a PLAYER at Trident Group as to any of this, all I know is from what I read on forums from other players, and what is it that casinos say about this?

"read the terms and conditions, don't rely on what you hear in the forums"

 

[edlonger]

Wonderful email...

Hi there Ed,

Thank you for contacting Trident Entertainment Group.

As per our conversation on Live Chat, your documents have been received however they have not been approved by our Operations and Security Department.

The reason for this is because the driver's license and passport documents pictures differ and does not have much resemblance.

The utility bill is outdated as we do require a recent utility bill not older than 3 months.

In order to have your accounts reopened, we require certified or notarized copies of your driver's license or passport and the utility bill.

This can be done at your local police station whereby they stamp the documents to confirm that they are true copies of the originals.

We recommend scanning the above documents, and saving in jpg or tiff format.

Should you have a digital camera, you may also photograph the documents.

Could you please then email them to us at the following address:

support@tridentegroup.com

Please ensure that the attachment is no larger than 3 megabytes.

Also, if you have more than one attachment, we advise sending them in separate emails.

Should you not have access to either of these, you may fax the documents to our toll free fax number: 1 877 222 1322

Once we receive these documents and they are approved, we will gladly reopen your account.

Should you require any further assistance, feel free to contact us, as we are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for your convenience.

Kind regards,

Megan

Entertainment Executive

Notarized copies of my license because it doesn't look like my passport? That's ridiculous - my pictures look nearly identical. The outdated bill is fine, but I should just have to send in another new one, not a notarized one. This is such a pain to do.

Bryan, how can these guys be accredited? This is unreal - terrible customer support and absurd demands to be paid a small sum from their casino.

 

[winbig]

???

Just curious, why would they want your DL and Passport? Isn't one enough??

 

[Mousey]

The reason for this is because the driver's license and passport documents pictures differ and does not have much resemblance.

The utility bill is outdated as we do require a recent utility bill not older than 3 months.

In order to have your accounts reopened, we require certified or notarized copies of your driver's license or passport and the utility bill.

This can be done at your local police station whereby they stamp the documents to confirm that they are true copies of the originals.

We recommend scanning the above documents, and saving in jpg or tiff format.

Should you have a digital camera, you may also photograph the documents.

Could you please then email them to us at the following address:

Notarized copies of my license because it doesn't look like my passport? That's ridiculous - my pictures look nearly identical. The outdated bill is fine, but I should just have to send in another new one, not a notarized one. This is such a pain to do.

Bryan, how can these guys be accredited? This is unreal - terrible customer support and absurd demands to be paid a small sum from their casino.

Ahoy, maties! (*twitch* *twitch*)

Am I the only one who's having Casino Rewards flashbacks after seeing this?

 

[vinylweatherman]

We're getting somewhere though, and it is unusual for a "fraudulent player" to be told quite so specifially HOW they got caught, so I suspect they must think you are an innocent player, but insist on playing their little games, which start thus:-

This can be done at your local police station whereby they stamp the documents to confirm that they are true copies of the originals.

That's a crock (or Trident ) of sh1t to start with. Police do not do this, certainly not here. Many UK players have been told this, only to be greeted with a "bugger off" response from the local police station. It takes either a public notary (cheaper) or a solicitor to do this, and it must be possible for the casino to phone the notary to confirm they did indeed see and notarise the documents.

Whether they have grounds for this, easy, let either eCogra or Max here see your two document photos as part of the complaint process.
Of course, why did you have to send both in the first place, this is a bit unusual as normally it is just a utility bill, one photo ID, and a deposit declaration form (some methods).

Pictures WILL differ simply because these documents can have a considerable lifespan, and the two photos could well be YEARS apart, and taken in different settings, clothes, hairstyles, etc.

If they later verify the documents, there should be no issue with being paid the winnings, unless they then come out with another excuse for non-payment, such as another breach of bonus rules.

 

[edlonger]

I just have a scanned copy of my passport and ID that I had used for other purposes; namely online banking. I figured I could just send that in - I had no idea I would be penalized for it!

This is so ridiculous. I will send a copy of my passport/ID to Max or eCogra if they want it and think they have grounds for this absurd request.

 

[RobWin]

I just have a scanned copy of my passport and ID that I had used for other purposes; namely online banking. I figured I could just send that in - I had no idea I would be penalized for it!

This is so ridiculous. I will send a copy of my passport/ID to Max or eCogra if they want it and think they have grounds for this absurd request.

Ed, I went back thru this entire thread and re-read all of your posts again but I never did see where you had mentioned what form of deposit you had originally used at this casino...eg:credit card, web wallet...etc. ?

I was just thinking if you had used a web wallet then they shouldn't even be asking for any of these documents since most legit casinos nowadays don't even require these like they used too back in the early days of online gaming...

 

[winbig]

I just have a scanned copy of my passport and ID that I had used for other purposes; namely online banking. I figured I could just send that in - I had no idea I would be penalized for it!

This is so ridiculous. I will send a copy of my passport/ID to Max or eCogra if they want it and think they have grounds for this absurd request.

Good enough for a bank, but yet not good enough for an online casino?

 

[edlonger]

Ed, I went back thru this entire thread and re-read all of your posts again but I never did see where you had mentioned what form of deposit you had originally used at this casino...eg:credit card, web wallet...etc. ?

I was just thinking if you had used a web wallet then they shouldn't even be asking for any of these documents since most legit casinos nowadays don't even require these like they used too back in the early days of online gaming...

Click2pay, and I am fairly new to online gaming, so I don't know, but that sure sounds nice

 

[RobWin]

Click2pay, and I am fairly new to online gaming, so I don't know, but that sure sounds nice

Yea that's a crock of S**t for them to be asking you for these documents since you used Click2Pay for the deposit source, this used to be a great group of casinos but now it's not sounding too good...

Sounds more like a stall tactic to me !

 

[edlonger]

Dear Ed,



We have investigated your query with King Neptunes Casino and have found that the casino requested certified copies of your documents in order to resolve any outstanding issues. As soon as they receive and verify these documents, they will unlock your account and process your withdrawal.



Kind Regards,

Tex

Sigh

I really don't want to have to do this, I'm very uncomfortable with the idea. Why do they need them? I think it is stupid that they are punishing me for sending in my passport and driver's license.

 

[RobWin]

Sigh

I really don't want to have to do this, I'm very uncomfortable with the idea. Why do they need them? I think it is stupid that they are punishing me for sending in my passport and driver's license.

Unfreaking Real...what in the hell is going on with all of these online casinos now...jeeze...

Ed, the only advice I could give you buddy is just sent them the damn documents that they request...get your withdrawal and cash it and never F*****g play at any of their casinos again, I used to recommend this group, but not no more...too much Roguish behavior here for me now...

 

[chuchu59]

My experience with this casino is that they request for documents which is fair enough. After several months of laziness, I scanned my docs and sent them to the casino 3 times but each time they tell me there are no attachments. Other casinos eg Simonsays had no probs with this. I sent the docs once only.

 

[BBKPoker]

Too bad. Another casino property more or less in the tubes if their management is run by Bellerock. How many Bellerock threads have we seen in the past few weeks? I think this is probably all fallout from a terribly aggressive campaign against bonus hunters that is catching all kinds of tuna in the dolphin net. Some of these requests are more or less ridiculous. Buried terms? Certified documents? Re-weighting of games so that nothing but slots counts with any significance towards wagering requirements? What happened to the "EZ" in "EZ" bonus? A very big disappointment the last year has been for Microgaming as a whole, and for a few groups such as Casino Rewards and Bellerock in particular.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Too bad. Another casino property more or less in the tubes if their management is run by Bellerock. How many Bellerock threads have we seen in the past few weeks? I think this is probably all fallout from a terribly aggressive campaign against bonus hunters that is catching all kinds of tuna in the dolphin net. Some of these requests are more or less ridiculous. Buried terms? Certified documents? Re-weighting of games so that nothing but slots counts with any significance towards wagering requirements? What happened to the "EZ" in "EZ" bonus? A very big disappointment the last year has been for Microgaming as a whole, and for a few groups such as Casino Rewards and Bellerock in particular.

I am suprised that ANYONE is currently signing up at King Neptune

Take one look at the regular promotions and you can clearly see it's a case of "Lights are on, but nobody's home"

The "current" Double your Deal event runs until the last week of SEPTEMBER 2007

Where this was seen at the website of Action Online, it was a clear "run like hell" warning, as those who dawdled found to their cost when they went "belly up" a few months later.

Carmen Media need to make a decision as to what they are going to do with these old Trident properties, or they won't be worth anything because of the negative press and seriously out of date websites.
Incidentally, the exit pop-up is STILL ADVERTISING and CROSS MARKETING the SUB between the two brands, something that under BelleRock rules is EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. Apart from this, Trident Lounge is not supposed to be accepting new players, and the future of King Neptune is undecided.

 

[edlonger]

I sent in my notarized bill today, but could not get my ID notarized anywhere. They said I'd have to call a lawyer for that, which would be more than my cashout!

 

[vinylweatherman]

I sent in my notarized bill today, but could not get my ID notarized anywhere. They said I'd have to call a lawyer for that, which would be more than my cashout!

Would be best to just get your deposit back then, unless BelleRock offer to cover the costs.
It seems silly that they are going through all this for a cash-in that is smaller than the costs of complying with ID procedures, seems just a way for casinos to keep small wins from players they believe are "abusing bonuses".