[IN PROGRESS] King Neptune's seizes my cashout ...

[edlonger]

I deposited 100 euros to take the 100% bonus match on the website, and signed up for an account with King Neptune's Casino (and no other affiliated casino of theirs). I played video poker and slots and won around 600 euros, fulfilling the bonus wagering requirements mainly on slots, and made a withdrawal for my full balance. A few days later they asked for documents, which I sent in, and then they locked my account.

Shortly thereafter, I got an email from them stating:

Hi there Ed,

Thank you for e-mailing Trident Entertainment Group.

Our Operations department has locked your account and confiscated your withdrawal.

Your account will remain closed indefinitely.

This has been done as you were found not to have complied with the terms and conditions for the King Neptunes new player sign-up offer you claimed.


For this reason, your winnings were confiscated, and all purchases you have made (?100) on this account (tknrxxxxxxx) has been processed back to you via your Click2Pay account.


Your ?100 was processed on the 27th January 2008, and you can expect to receive this credit within 2 to 4 business days.


We trust that the above information has been of use to you.

Should you require any further assistance, or wish to offer any comments or suggestions, please feel free to contact us. Our friendly helpdesk is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for your convenience.


Thanks and regards

Gian
Entertainment Executive

That is blatantly false - I have adhered to all the terms and conditions of the wagering of the bonus, and played only allowable games (video poker and slots).

I filed an eCogra complaint and a PAB. They are accredited!

How annoying - I am having a possible problem at Belle Rock, too, but that's a whole other thread...

 

[maxd]

Normally we advise players to take _one_ of those avenues to file their grievance, not all of them at the same time. It's for your own good really: if there are several efforts to resolve your issue happening at the same time then we're likely to stumble over each other, get things crossed up, etc.

Also, some casino management people view a post on the boards as a hostile gesture, especially if you haven't yet tried to contact them directly and resolve things, and that can be another impediment to getting the issue settled.

In light of this I'll hold off on the PAB until you hear back from eCOGRA. If that proves unsatisfactory then I'll chase the PAB at that time. I will however alert the BelleRock rep to this thread.

 

[edlonger]

Okay, we'll see - the BelleRock person got in touch with me. That's weird though, because I thought King Neptune's way not the same. Oh dear, there are so many confusing things I have no idea what is going on, especially since I have an issue with BR too.

Sorry about contacting everyone - it's a lot of money to me, and I was just following what I saw on the website. Thanks for helping.

 

[winbig]

Also, some casino management people view a post on the boards as a hostile gesture, especially if you haven't yet tried to contact them directly and resolve things, and that can be another impediment to getting the issue settled.

IMO, there's no real reason to try and contact them to resolve this issue...The following statement pretty much backs up the fact that it's the casinos final decision (without getting a 3rd party involved).

Our Operations department has locked your account and confiscated your withdrawal.

Your account will remain closed indefinitely.

Just my 2c

 

[edlonger]

They can keep my account closed for all I care. Just pay me my money.

 

[RobWin]

This has been done as you were found not to have complied with the terms and conditions for the King Neptunes new player sign-up offer you claimed.

Ed, exactly what terms and conditions are they claiming that you did not comply with ?

 

[edlonger]

Ed, exactly what terms and conditions are they claiming that you did not comply with ?

I posted the whole email. I have no idea.

 

[maxd]

IMO, there's no real reason to try and contact them to resolve this issue...The following statement pretty much backs up the fact that it's the casinos final decision (without getting a 3rd party involved). ...

Yes, but I am that third party so when I go to the casino and they see the same issue up on the boards they get hostile at me which, I'm sure you can imagine, is not how I like to open negotiations.

 

[winbig]

Yes, but I am that third party so when I go to the casino and they see the same issue up on the boards they get hostile at me which, I'm sure you can imagine, is not how I like to open negitiations.

Touche` So true, so true....

It's even in the PAB section (never read it before, sorry )

If you choose to publicize your complaint in the public fora, we reserve the right to disregard it. Making complaints a public issue will usually derail most arbitrations.

 

[RobWin]

I posted the whole email. I have no idea.

The first thing I would do then is just simply call and ask them...you have to start at the source first ...

 

[lots0]

Also, some casino management people view a post on the boards as a hostile gesture...

If the casinos are hostile toward public airing of complaints... I say screw em.

If that is their attitude, wanting to keep all complaints quiet... Then they must have something to hide.

I see a lot of casinos that don't seem to mind dealing with complaints in public. I think is shows the casino is working to be honest and take care of players.

All this secrecy is just a bunch of crap for bad casino practices to hide behind and the players deserve better.

 

[Mousey]

If the OP already has accounts at Belle Rock casinos they may consider that as claiming another signup bonus 'within the group' when signing up at King Nep -- which didn't used to be a problem (most casinos actually used to encourage it) but is now generally frowned upon. (Exactly how players are to keep up with who owns who and when whichever was bought/sold/merged, etc. is beyond me.)

Also, can Canadian players play in Euro?

 

[RobWin]

If the OP already has accounts at Belle Rock casinos they may consider that as claiming another signup bonus 'within the group' when signing up at King Nep -- which didn't used to be a problem (most casinos actually used to encourage it) but is now generally frowned upon. (Exactly how players are to keep up with who owns who and when whichever was bought/sold/merged, etc. is beyond me.)

Also, can Canadian players play in Euro?

Did Bellerock Group finally buy out the King Neptunes group ? I must have missed that too...I had heard talk of it, but never heard for sure

 

[SlotsWizard]

Did Bellerock Group finally buy out the King Neptunes group ? I must have missed that too...I had heard talk of it, but never heard for sure

According to the King Neptune's website, they're still a member of Trident Lounge.

 

[Mousey]

Did Bellerock Group finally buy out the King Neptunes group ? I must have missed that too...I had heard talk of it, but never heard for sure

Well, I sure can't keep up with it either. But on the Belle Rock casino rep's profile is :

Location:
South Africa
Occupation:
CSR Supervisor
Casino Properties:
Bellerock Casinos
Aces High Casino
Gaming Club Casino
Lucky Nugget
Jacpot City Casino
Riverbelle Casino
Trident Lounge
King Neptunes Casino
VegasUSA Casino
Trident Poker

I recently downloaded King Nep again (after my year hiatus) and I did ask someone about King Nep -- the website is pretty stale and only old promos show up in the software -- -- so I wondered what was up... and the reply was:

We are reviewing all Trident brands and will update KN accordingly. Unfortunately I cannot give any specifics at this time.

Best regards,

XXXXXX
__________________
bellerock



I uninstalled King Nep again, BTW

 

[edlonger]

The first thing I would do then is just simply call and ask them...you have to start at the source first ...

They won't answer me via email, why would they do it via phone?

Check out the new email they sent me. Focus on the bolded part...

Hi there Ed,

Thank you for e-mailing Trident Entertainment Group.

Your account has been closed and it will not be re-opened.

All the deposits you have made into this account ($100), are already on their way to your Click2Pay account, you should be receiving them in the next 2 to 4 business days.


Any winnings you may have had, have been confiscated.

Kindly note that the casino reserves the right to close any of our players accounts at any time, without having to provide a reason.


Thank you for your understanding in this regard.


We trust that the above information has been of use to you.

Should you require any further assistance, or wish to offer any comments or suggestions, please feel free to contact us. Our friendly helpdesk is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for your convenience.


Thanks and regards

Gian
Entertainment Executive

Wow.

 

[acepedro45]

Deep Breaths

Let's slow down and wait to see this resolved. If the casino is on Brians White list, chances are they will play ball honorably.

 

[RobWin]

Let's slow down and wait to see this resolved. If the casino is on Brians White list, chances are they will play ball honorably.

It's Bryan....

 

[maxd]

If the casinos are hostile toward public airing of complaints... I say screw em.

If that is their attitude, wanting to keep all complaints quiet... Then they must have something to hide.

While I can certainly understand how you might take that perspective on the situation there are other ways to view it. Often a player complaint is born of misunderstanding or miscommunication. While a casino is trying to address and resolve such genuine but resolvable problems it does them no good to have "Casino XYZ steals money and tells lies every day !!!" type posts on the forum.

You might think, "ah yes, but it gets their attention." Yes, maybe it does, but how would you like it if next time your mother-in-law wanted to have a chat she started the conversation by hitting you with the a 2-by-4 and stomped on your toes for good measure. Kind of derails the conversation doesn't it? Same thing, from the casino's point of view, with the inflammatory and hostile forum posts.

Please note that I'm not saying casinos should not be criticized on the forums, far from it. But I am saying that many of them operate legitimate businesses and are trying to do a good job for their customers. For them having to see accusations and attacks -- often before the player has even tried to work things out with them -- is a real slap in the face. They don't like it, don't feel they deserve it and I largely agree with them.

On the other hand if a casino really is messing with a player then of course they deserve to see those issues up here for all to see.

 

[Casinomeister]

BTW - Carmen Media (Bellerock) picked up the Trident Lounge group about a year ago. There were a number of press releases that announced this. It's also archived in our news section. Only recently did Trident Lounge move over to BR completely. It was a slow process, but nevertheless not a surprise.

 

[chuchu59]

If the casinos are hostile toward public airing of complaints... I say screw em.

If that is their attitude, wanting to keep all complaints quiet... Then they must have something to hide.

I see a lot of casinos that don't seem to mind dealing with complaints in public. I think is shows the casino is working to be honest and take care of players.

All this secrecy is just a bunch of crap for bad casino practices to hide behind and the players deserve better.

It is understandable if casinos take a hostile stance against public airing of complaints as it puts them under a negative light and when they had no opportunity to address the problem. IMO whenever a casino has not had the chance to respond, complaints should be carefully worded so as to draw a response from them. After all, this is not a bashing game but rather an avenue to resolve issues amicably.

Edlonger seems to have stated the facts as they are and did not resort to bashing the casino so Neptunes should not really feel aggravated especially since they sent out a standardized mail which didnt fully describe what the player had done wrong. As with 90% of all cases, communication is vital and King Neptune seems to have done poorly in not addressing the problem properly. Actually, which player will accept having a withdrawal confiscated without a solid reason?

 

[vinylweatherman]

BTW - Carmen Media (Bellerock) picked up the Trident Lounge group about a year ago. There were a number of press releases that announced this. It's also archived in our news section. Only recently did Trident Lounge move over to BR completely. It was a slow process, but nevertheless not a surprise.

Quite, but they are not exactly publicising the fact, and currently King Neptune casino runs under a "stale" site, yet still allows new players to sign up. It is the terms posted at KING NEPTUNE that count, NOT those of BelleRock itself. I recently posted the main BelleRock homepage, and this CLEARLY makes no mention of King Neptune casino in the stable.

If the player broke the T & C, why are the casino unable to say which term was broken. This only implies the only term "breached" was the "FU Clause", which allows the casino to unilaterally decide whether to pay regardless of individual terms. No LEGITIMATE business would be allowed to behave in this manner toward a paying customer, so if online casinos want to be seen as legitimate they must start to behave like it, and give customers PROPER explanations for any problems they may have, and have a proper, AND EFFECTIVE internal complaints process. making a "final decision" and then ignoring all correspondence are the actions of a "rogue trader".

This problem probably results from a discontinuity in the merging of these two brands, with the decisions being made under the BelleRock rules, but with the "stale" King Neptune website still operating under "Trident Lounge" rules.
BelleRock rules differ in two important respects to those at the old Trident Group, one being that BelleRock now only allow one bonus over the entire group, and the second being that of currency, players should use their own. Since Microgaming support the Canadian Dollar, Canadian players should use this, or at least the US Dollar. Use of the Euro, and particularly the UK Pound, are going to get an account flagged for "bonus abuse".
Since this player already has problems with BelleRock, it is no wonder they faced "summary execution" when they turned up at King Neptune and tried to walk off with a win from the SUB.

 

[mishun]

I AGREE 100% VWM. Belle Rock pulled the same stunt on me. I played at Lucky Nugget back in sept. I deposited $50 and got the $200. I met wager requirement and cashed out $2200+ I was denied without reason. Bare in Mind before the USA Ban. I was a 5 year affiliate of Belle Rock

Andre: Our records indicates that your casino account was locked last year September and your $50 deposit was refunded back to you
tln10XXXXXXr: yea but why?
tln10XXXXXXr: i never gotten a reason
Andre: No reason has been given. As per the terms and conditions of Belle Rock Entertainment no reason needs to be given
Andre: When you registered your account, you acknowledged that the Casino is not obliged to give you prior notice of its decision to refuse, deregister or exclude or suspend you, nor to furnish you with any reasons for such decision.

This whole group of casinos is on my RIP List!

 

[maxd]

FWIW, we've recently had the BelleRock rep help out on a King Neptune's PAB and it was resolved nicely. I'd say there is good reason to expect that they'll take this issue seriously as well.

And for those of you who have been following the off-topic portion of this thread please note that I'll be trimming that stuff out and moving it over to The Attic under the heading "was King Neptune ...".

 

[vinylweatherman]

I AGREE 100% VWM. Belle Rock pulled the same stunt on me. I played at Lucky Nugget back in sept. I deposited $50 and got the $200. I met wager requirement and cashed out $2200+ I was denied without reason. Bare in Mind before the USA Ban. I was a 5 year affiliate of Belle Rock

Andre: Our records indicates that your casino account was locked last year September and your $50 deposit was refunded back to you
tln10XXXXXXr: yea but why?
tln10XXXXXXr: i never gotten a reason
Andre: No reason has been given. As per the terms and conditions of Belle Rock Entertainment no reason needs to be given
Andre: When you registered your account, you acknowledged that the Casino is not obliged to give you prior notice of its decision to refuse, deregister or exclude or suspend you, nor to furnish you with any reasons for such decision.

This whole group of casinos is on my RIP List!

In my view, this kind of behaviour by a casino is UNACCEPTABLE, they are simply behaving like a rogue, and reneging on a bet. This is what needs to be stamped out in this industry, players need to have a proper appeals process against this kind of thing. If you had lost, you would have seen Lucky Nugget keep your $50 and never tell you there was a problem that meant you could not win.

Either there has been a 1000% increase in fraudulent players over the last year or so, or a large increase in casinos behaving badly. I know what I believe to be the case.