Immortal Romance

ecopac

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Location
UK
Hi all

So I've been playing this pretty hard over the last few weeks, seeking out a big win which is still avoiding me.

Just a couple of frustrations really and I wanted to see what others experience was of this slot.

Firstly, the Wild Vine feature just seems to be an absolute joke. I've had it well over 30 times now, with the biggest win being 30x stake (I play at 90p stake). Does the vine ever actually go into reels 1 & 2?? It's just so annoying how if you do manage to get 3 of a kind it either makes the third reel all wild or the fifth reel knowing full well there's no 5 of a kind there.

What features do you all generally choose to play when you hit them??

Secondly the Wild Desire bonus, I mean I know it's random but today for example I've put through a good few thousand spins and its triggered once, with just 1 reel wild for 4x stake. There's random, then there's taking the piss quite frankly.

I know it's pretty high variance, but the features do seem to be painfully tight on this game!

Still, there's something about it that keeps me playing, I think it is the lure of that big win - I do enjoy it, but hate it at the same time!
 
Hi, I have played this slots a lot. And I have written a thread that how I felt about this slots somewhere in this section.

Generally, for me (not try to misleading you), 1 in 125K spins I will get a 4 reels of wild.

Again, for me this is average number, I did somewhere close to 550K spins and got 4 times 4 reels of wild.

You will need be patient and have a sufficient bankroll. I always play at 32red as the IR there seemingly paying better...

The rest you will have to test yourself. I always chose the bat feature (2nd).

regards

plasticnote
 
My feeling is the hit potential on all the features is the same, they just go about it in different ways.

Wild Vine 'feels' like it should pay a lot better than it does most of the time, but of course that round is completely controlled and the vine movement isn't random.

The 10 free spins at 5x pay is probably the least frustrating one in that it just gets it all over with pretty quickly, whether it's win big or small :D

The rolling/tumbling reels one is the best one to pick for playtime, and once in a while it'll drop in as big a win as any of the others with 'perfect tumbles'.

As much as I piss and moan about MG, it is a good slot.
 
Personally,I wouldn't touch it with someone else's balance.However I have seen some pretty good hits so I suppose just because I don't like a game having not had a big win I can't slate it.

When I did play it I would use the 3rd or 4th feature myself-I go by the rule the more spins the more chance of a biggie.
 
Personally,I wouldn't touch it with someone else's balance.However I have seen some pretty good hits so I suppose just because I don't like a game having not had a big win I can't slate it.

I just look at it as any other high variance slot really, arguably VERY high variance considering that there's at least one 12150x stake win on the paytable (all 5 wild in Wild Desire) plus all the 3 and 4 wilds wins.

Like any high variance slot, on a bad run it'll destroy you, even at low stakes.

When I did play it I would use the 3rd or 4th feature myself-I go by the rule the more spins the more chance of a biggie.

I honestly think they're all the same, I'd love to see the 'individual paytables' for the rounds to see if some are weighted more towards bigger wins than others, but for the slot to be fair none of them can have a better average RTP than any of the others.
 
This is 1 of my favorite slots since 1 month, or so. :thumbsup:
Before that i didnt like it, couse it seemed to be very hard to get anything.
At first i didnt like the 2-4th bonus feature, only the first1 (10 spins x5), but then i tried the 4th again & got 7 (only got 2-3 before that) wild vine symbols + 1 ordinary wild = a nice win. :D Of course ill try the 4th more now & maybe even try the 2-3 also & see if i can get some more nice ones.

My advice is = dont stick to just 1 slot, try many out, with free money, or with real until you find the ones you like. :notworthy
Thunderstruck 2 is very similar to Immortal Romance & i jump between those2 & of course other games now & then.

Good luck to you & hope you get a big win in IR or some other game soon!
 
I just look at it as any other high variance slot really, arguably VERY high variance considering that there's at least one 12150x stake win on the paytable (all 5 wild in Wild Desire) plus all the 3 and 4 wilds wins.

Like any high variance slot, on a bad run it'll destroy you, even at low stakes.




I honestly think they're all the same, I'd love to see the 'individual paytables' for the rounds to see if some are weighted more towards bigger wins than others, but for the slot to be fair none of them can have a better average RTP than any of the others.

Correction; On a normal run, it will destroy you! :(
 
When I could play MG, I used to always take the Wild Vine feature, and I very rarely saw wild vines on the first 2 reels, but the amount of times I saw all three symbols on the middle reel turn wild is insanely high. Left me miffed more than once from playing that round!
 
When I could play MG, I used to always take the Wild Vine feature, and I very rarely saw wild vines on the first 2 reels, but the amount of times I saw all three symbols on the middle reel turn wild is insanely high. Left me miffed more than once from playing that round!

I'll go ahead and say that from personal experience, in 49 features out of 50 you won't see any wild vine other than on reel 3 and on reel 5. That's poor programming IMO, it ruins the unpredictable aspect of the bonus and serves no purpose as they could make them appear randomly on all reels without affecting the RTP.

It gets pretty frustrating when you have to wait until it turns the whole reel 3 and reel 5 wild and you know that you're going to win nothing.

The bats feature is similar, as the bats will go to reel 2 and 3 almost exclusively, with a very rare reel 4 hit. I've yet to see one hitting reel 1 or 5.

TS2 have the exact same problem with its own wild vine/birds features.
 
Once you get your head round the fact that MG slots use wildly fake 'reels' and that all the features are completely controlled and pre-determined, stuff like the Wild Vine feature becomes a lot less annoying. (I'm not singling MG out by the way, WMS slots do it, NetEnt slots do it, and I'm sure they're not the only ones.)

Wild Vine is still a poor example from a design point of view because it's just so damn blatant, but in principle it's no better or worse than any other bonus round.

I think IR is a decent slot, but one to put a couple of hundred spins through here and there, rather than get too involved.
 
Once you get your head round the fact that MG slots use wildly fake 'reels' and that all the features are completely controlled and pre-determined, stuff like the Wild Vine feature becomes a lot less annoying.

That's the reason why I said it was poor programming. They could have hid it better and still give out the same payout at the end of the feature. I've not played at JPP but I'm pretty sure that you don't see that kind of weak programming with WMS slots or other land based clones Chopley.
 
That's the reason why I said it was poor programming. They could have hid it better and still give out the same payout at the end of the feature. I've not played at JPP but I'm pretty sure that you don't see that kind of weak programming with WMS slots or other land based clones Chopley.

Heh, have you seen the Star Trek slots with stacked Kirk wilds at Jackpot Party? (WMS slots.)

I pointed them out in the Jackpot Party video I did, if those reels were actually as presented, the slot would have a payout of about 1000% :D

Bruce Lee is just as bad with the stacked wilds on 3-4-5.

As for NetEnt, you need look no further than the new slot Elements for 'reels' that clearly aren't anything even remotely resembling actual reels.
 
Heh, have you seen the Star Trek slots with stacked Kirk wilds at Jackpot Party? (WMS slots.)

I pointed them out in the Jackpot Party video I did, if those reels were actually as presented, the slot would have a payout of about 1000% :D

Bruce Lee is just as bad with the stacked wilds on 3-4-5.

As for NetEnt, you need look no further than the new slot Elements for 'reels' that clearly aren't anything even remotely resembling actual reels.

I know the reel animations are fake on all video slots and the result is predetermined by the RNG, I was talking about "glitches" like the Wild Vine feature. I've yet to see a land based slot where all the wilds go at the same place all the time.
 
Wild Vine feature isn't a glitch IMO, this is the way to compensate 25 free spins comparing to Thundestruck's Loki feature.
It has only 15 spins but wilds acting more random.
 
I know the reel animations are fake on all video slots and the result is predetermined by the RNG, I was talking about "glitches" like the Wild Vine feature. I've yet to see a land based slot where all the wilds go at the same place all the time.

I just see those as two sides of the same coin TBH, I suppose good slot design is making a game and its features exciting and involving, whilst looking random and 'anything goes'.

Wild Vine is just a bad example of blatant non-randomness, but behind the scenes it's no different to any other slot or feature.

(Well, RTG's Real Series slots excepted I suppose, but by crikey those things are dull, so I guess we should be careful what we wish for!)
 
IMO, some pretty strange comments being made about slots again in this thread...

I'll go ahead and say that from personal experience, in 49 features out of 50 you won't see any wild vine other than on reel 3 and on reel 5. That's poor programming IMO, it ruins the unpredictable aspect of the bonus and serves no purpose as they could make them appear randomly on all reels without affecting the RTP.

It gets pretty frustrating when you have to wait until it turns the whole reel 3 and reel 5 wild and you know that you're going to win nothing.

The bats feature is similar, as the bats will go to reel 2 and 3 almost exclusively, with a very rare reel 4 hit. I've yet to see one hitting reel 1 or 5.

TS2 have the exact same problem with its own wild vine/birds features.
Why would anyone assume that the Wild Vine symbols should appear in any position on any of the reels with an equal probability, or that the Bats should also go to reels 1 or 5, when none of these things are stated on the pay-table or in the rules?
The Wild Vine feature is clearly 100% weighted - accept that, or don't play the slot.
The Bats will NEVER drop on to reel 1 or 5 - accept that, or don't play the slot.


As for NetEnt, you need look no further than the new slot Elements for 'reels' that clearly aren't anything even remotely resembling actual reels.
Again, that is blindingly obvious, but so what?
Most of their other slots do have 5 fixed reel strips, this one has 15 weighted reel strips which can produce any symbol in any of the 15 positions (where that symbol appears in the column) in exactly the same way that Jack Hammer 1 and 2 work. Go and play either of those for a while and you will see why I have come to this conclusion (which is just my opinion, not a known fact).
I really like this aspect on this slot because it means that even if you have just had wilds making one or more wins, you can still get more wilds dropping in to replace the exploded symbols. :thumbsup:

KK
 
I dont think the Wild Vine is weighted in a way that the spots on reel 1,2 and 4 only have a lesser probability of getting wild.
If that was the case you should see an occasional shoot to those spots once in a while.
But instead, as Balthazar pointed out, 49 out of 50 times it only takes reel 3 and/or 5.
But as soon as it starts shooting to one of the other reels, it often shoots several times and several reels.
Payout time?

I also believe that all feautures have the same RTP, as it would be crazy to build a slot that has different RTP percentages for different feautures. its only the variance that differs.
The Amber free spins (10x5) are the highest variance, I think Michaels rolling reels the lowest. (dont like that one)

Amber is by far my favourite. No frustration like with the Wild Vine, or bats that fly to the wrong spot, or not at all...
Its also the only one that can retrigger. And I LOVE retriggers!:D
I've hit over 1000x bet once, and over 500x several times now.
But it can also give you 10 dead spins..
 
I dont like to think that some or all slots are "weighted" or have "weighted" reels etc... it ruins lots of the fun with the game then! :eek: :( :mad:
IF they are, then it should say so clearly in the pay-table/game text, so that every1 knows about it!

When i play games like Immortal Romance & chose the Wild Wine feature, then i take it for granted that the Wild Wines can end up on all 5 reels at the same time (very rare then), or separately. So far it seems they end up mostly on the 3rd & 5th reels & thats not so helpful most of the times. :eek:
They should have the same probability to end up on all 5 reels separately though. Otherwise it should clearly say so in the game rules.

The pay-table/game rules are for the players to read, so they know about the games!
 
Again, that is blindingly obvious, but so what? Most of their other slots do have 5 fixed reel strips

I like that when we point out that what we're saying is the truth and can be easily proved due to programming flaws, you always come back with something like "but the other slots don't work like that" or "it's just the bonus feature", like it would make any sense whatsoever to have two different payout systems built in the same slot/software.

KK I respect you a lot but it's time to face reality and to stop hiding behind old, outdated beliefs.
 
I like that when we point out that what we're saying is the truth and can be easily proved due to programming flaws, you always come back with something like "but the other slots don't work like that" or "it's just the bonus feature", like it would make any sense whatsoever to have two different payout systems built in the same slot/software.

KK I respect you a lot but it's time to face reality and to stop hiding behind old, outdated beliefs.

The exact reason I've stopped playing Microgaming slots. The features and wins are obviously predetermined. Immortal Romance just goes one step further and quite literally rubs it in you're face.

Slots should be random and if the features aren't then that should be written in the rules of the game.

There aren't two different payout systems.

I used to love pick-you're-own bonuses until I realized you could pretty much click left to right and still have the same outcome.
 
The exact reason I've stopped playing Microgaming slots. The features and wins are obviously predetermined. Immortal Romance just goes one step further and quite literally rubs it in you're face.

It's not a MG thing, all the slots at your local casino and in Vegas also work like that, even mechanical slots.

Slots should be random and if the features aren't then that should be written in the rules of the game.

What people need to understand is they ARE random! The issue here isn't about randomness, it's about what you see on the reels is not representative of the result. It's not real reels that spin and then stop at a random time, it's a random number generator that picks a number and determines if you win and what you win, and the reels are only there to show what the result is. Just like when you spin the Mega Moolah wheel, you don't have 1 chance out of 24 to win the million dollars jackpot, even though visually it appears that way.

It's 100% random and 100% legit.

The problem with Wild Vine is when the Random Number Generator says that you win 200x stake (example) in the feature, instead of visually showing acts of randomness, it always shows the same patterns. Programmers were lazy or f*cked up, but it does NOT affect the payout because at the end, you'll still get your 200x stake regardless of how the wins were represented on your screen.
 
The issue here isn't about randomness, it's about what you see on the reels is not representative of the result. It's not real reels that spin and then stop at a random time, it's a random number generator that picks a number and determines if you win and what you win, and the reels are only there to show what the result is. Just like when you spin the Mega Moolah wheel, you don't have 1 chance out of 24 to win the million dollars jackpot, even though visually it appears that way

I know the base game is random. So regardless of where the symbols are on the reels they can always shift to create a different result?
 
I know the base game is random. I'm not so sure about the features. So regardless of where the symbols are on the reels they can always shift to create a different result?

Features are just glorified regular spins.

The example that IGT gave to me was this one (paraphrasing).

Think about a pool filled with 1000 numbered golf balls and a paper chart with 1000 numbers on it. Next to each number on the chart, there's a value varying from $0 to jackpot. Every time that you click spin, you close your eyes and pick a ball from the pool. You then look at the number on your golf ball and you win the amount that's associated to that number on the paper chart. The ball is returned in the pool and shuffled before the next spin. If you want to change the RTP of a machine, all you have to do is to change the chart. You can put 100M balls in the pool and have only 1 number associated with the jackpot if you want.


Note that he gave this example mainly to explain that the slots aren't compensated, and that since you have to return the ball in the pool after each pick, your chances of winning are always the same regardless of what happened before. Still explains the RNG pretty good IMO (but instead of picking golf balls, the RNG picks numbers directly).
 
Why would anyone assume that the Wild Vine symbols should appear in any position on any of the reels with an equal probability, or that the Bats should also go to reels 1 or 5, when none of these things are stated on the pay-table or in the rules?
The Wild Vine feature is clearly 100% weighted - accept that, or don't play the slot.
The Bats will NEVER drop on to reel 1 or 5 - accept that, or don't play the slot.

The thing is KK, the list of 'exceptions to the rule' is so damn long that I wonder why on earth you're so determined to cling to the idea that the reels in the base game are random.

It's like I pointed out Tunzamunni using ridiculously weighted fake reels and your response 'Yes well everyone knows that'.

Or a lot of the five-line MG slots, 'Well yes everyone knows that'.

We've got Battlestar Galactica which plainly uses cheaty reels for the FTL bonus round, so let's add that to the list, along with the IR features, and so on.

WMS slots use ridiculously fake reels, honestly, just put a couple of hundred spins through any of their Star Trek slots with the stacked Kirk wilds and tell me you think they use proper reel strips. (Or the Jungle Cats Life of Luxury Progressive slot, which is almost comically fake in the base game, let alone in free spins.)

Again, that is blindingly obvious, but so what?
Most of their other slots do have 5 fixed reel strips, this one has 15 weighted reel strips which can produce any symbol in any of the 15 positions (where that symbol appears in the column) in exactly the same way that Jack Hammer 1 and 2 work. Go and play either of those for a while and you will see why I have come to this conclusion (which is just my opinion, not a known fact).

KK

Not withstanding the fact that you're now speculating as much as anyone else, the very idea that a slot uses 15 weighted reel strips and can still be considered to have randomly stopping reels in any sort of traditional sense is nonsensical.

How does that work even, anyway? If you get a win on 1-2-3, do those reels switch to the next set for the next drop, and 4-5 stay on the original set? For Elements to work it has to make sure that your chance of getting a win on the fourth spin is massively smaller than the proceeding three, how do they map out all the possible combinations through these fifteen different reel strips?

To get back to IR, I think that the reel strips you see at all times, both base games and features, are 100% for show, simply because the player expects to see spinning reels when he plays a slot.

The reels spin for a bit, and then it drops in what it actually wants to on the reels, yes you may be able to map what drops into place to a 'strip' but that doesn't mean it's a random stop. Plus you can learn the reels quick enough, when on two scatters and waiting for the third, you often see a scatter roll past and then very quickly a scatter drops in to make the third, but that scatter didn't exist on the reel strip in that place, the slot just 'generates' it because the RNG picked a bonus round for that spin.

Now, none of this is to say that the slots aren't random and/or don't make RTP. I have no problem with this concept of slot design, in fact my favourite slots are probably WMS, which are the worst offenders when it comes to this sort of thing - I'm just a bit bemused by the idea that it's 'blindingly obvious' (your own words!) that just about every single aspect of modern video slot design is 100% controlled/weighted, and yet the SACRED REELS OF THE BASE GAME must still be considered to be completely random.

Every spin of the base reel game is the same as everything else, the server just calls the RNG for a result, the RNG provides that result (zero spin, 1x stake, 100x stake, 1000x stake, progressive wheel trigger with MINOR spin etc etc), and everything from that moment forward is simply a sound and light show.
 
Not withstanding the fact that you're now speculating as much as anyone else, the very idea that a slot uses 15 weighted reel strips and can still be considered to have randomly stopping reels in any sort of traditional sense is nonsensical.
Well at least you admit that you and Balthazar are speculating too - that's a start at least! :thumbsup:

It's true, I don't know 100% for sure how any online slots work - but neither do you two.
What I do know is what I have observed in playing and analysing them near-enough every day for the last 8 years and I have drawn my conclusions from that.
You have obviously done your own observations and come to a different conclusion. Fair enough.
Maybe you could also admit the possibility (like I do) that not all online slots work the same way?

I tell you something though - if there was a way we could get the likes of Microgaming or NetEnt to reveal the mechanics of their slots, I would put a LARGE bet on most of my theories being correct! ;)


{Elements} How does that work even, anyway? If you get a win on 1-2-3, do those reels switch to the next set for the next drop, and 4-5 stay on the original set?
Set? Set of what? :confused:
I really don't have the time to be answering this thread (millions of things to do off-line!), but I feel I must.
OK, my theory goes like this:

Each of the 15 positions is a separate "reel" which "spins" and randomly lands on one of the symbols on that reel (Just like Jack Hammer) - each column of 3 has identical "reels".
The 15 resulting symbols then drop down into view on your screen.
Any symbols forming a win explode.
The software then "spins" how ever many new symbols are required in the same way as the original spin, and they drop down.
Repeat...


For Elements to work it has to make sure that your chance of getting a win on the fourth spin is massively smaller than the proceeding three, how do they map out all the possible combinations through these fifteen different reel strips?
What you are saying is that the game is rigged or weighted to only give you the bonus feature when some routine within the software says it's time. I accept that is possible - but I think it's unlikely.
If it does work that way, it wouldn't need to "map" anything - it would just need to block some of the symbols from appearing to ensure a win is not formed on the 4th drop.

I admit I could be completely wrong about this slot, as it's not like anything I've ever seen before.
But if I am wrong and you're right, it basically means this slot is an AWP, which is a scary thought for me... :eek2:


To get back to IR, I think that the reel strips you see at all times, both base games and features, are 100% for show, simply because the player expects to see spinning reels when he plays a slot.

The reels spin for a bit, and then it drops in what it actually wants to on the reels, yes you may be able to map what drops into place to a 'strip' but that doesn't mean it's a random stop. Plus you can learn the reels quick enough, when on two scatters and waiting for the third, you often see a scatter roll past and then very quickly a scatter drops in to make the third, but that scatter didn't exist on the reel strip in that place, the slot just 'generates' it because the RNG picked a bonus round for that spin.
What you are saying is true of some slots and some softwares - but not of the majority of online slots and IMHO not of IR.
I've explained this years ago somewhere on the forum - I wish I could find that post so I don't have to type all this again! :(

What happens is:
The reel "spins" and you see a true reflection of the reel strip layout passing before your very eyes!
(If you've ever had an internet disconnect or other pause causing an extended spin, you will have been able to see this for yourself)
When the reel is about to stop, the software "cuts in" the finishing position (which has been selected by a randomly generated number from 1 to X) and then the reel stops. (If you don't understand why the "cut-in" is needed - ask and I will explain)
With Microgaming the "Cut in" on recent slots seems to vary and includes from 1 to 3 extra symbols. With NetEnt there are no extra symbols at all (which actually annoys me a bit!)

So, I'll try to show this graphically below...
The Black numbers are the positions on the reel strip from 01 to X (however many symbols are on the reel).
The Blue numbers are the extra symbols at the start of the "cut-in".
The Red numbers are the 3 symbols which end up being displayed on your screen.
(Bear in mind that the reel spins downward, so the numbers at the bottom of this graphic are what you see first).

15
14 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
13
12 < Symbols in View
11 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

10
09
08 _ _ _ _ < Cut-in

11
10
09
08
07
06
05


Now suppose on this reel that position 11 is the scatter symbol. In this example you would see that scatter go past and yet still "miraculously" land in your window, even though it only appears once on that reel.

If you don't believe what I'm saying, PLEASE go and play some MG slots on normal spin speed and watch very closely - you will see it!
Tell-tale signs are two of the same symbol appearing next to each other just before the spin stops, when they never appear adjacent with the reel stopped. Or stacked wilds having less than the full number of adjacent symbols, again just before the spin stops.
Cashapillar is a very good slot for viewing this - or pretty much any slot with stacked wilds or very distinctive symbols you can easily pick out.

KK
 

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