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I'm such an idiot to start playing online again!

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Let_It_Ride, Jun 5, 2007.

    Jun 5, 2007
  1. Let_It_Ride

    Let_It_Ride Quit Gambling

    Occupation:
    none
    Location:
    europe
    Last year I finally accepted I have a gambling problem and stopped gambling for nearly a year and informed all the casinos about my problem and asked them to exclude me. A few weeks ago in a moment of weakness I tired to re-open or open new accounts (using the same PC, name, address and card details). Most casinos were good and said they were unable to let me play as I had excluded myself, this is good this is was us addicts need in moments of weakness.

    However my story is about my experience with two casino that let me play again and the different way they handled my account.

    Casino one let me open a new account, deposit and play, here I won 100euros and requested a withdrawal, a few days later I get an email saying we see you have a gaming problem we have closed your account, all bets are void! so no winnings and refunded my original deposit. Question, I used the same name, address etc. can the system have not locked me out before I played? Still for only a 100euro win I'm not gonna stress and atleast these guys have finally locked me out and stopped me playing.

    Casino two, re-opened my old account, online chat also highlighted they see I have a gambling problem so I can only deposit with NETeller now and not my VISA card (what difference this makes I do not know!) they also asked me to email them to say I no longer have a gambling problem, this I never did.
    I then spend the weekend playing and all the stress and addiction come back, I deposit, lose, chase, deposit, lose, chase... break even, withdrawal, go away. Have the sweats, come back, reverse 100, lose, reverse 200 lose, reverse 300, break even, withdraw. Next day reverse withdraw, play and lose everything, finally say STOP you're killing yourself and manage to walk away.

    2 days later I get an email saying we can't let you play at our casino until you confirm you are no longer an addict, I write back saying you've let me play all weekend and I'm still very much an addict, ask them to close my account and ask if they will void my bets deposits as did casino one. They say will refer this to management, over 1 week later and after several emails from me I finally get a reply, they confirm my account is closed, but sorry management say no bets are void! what a surprise, I'm sure it would be a different story if I had won, like at casino number 1.

    Shows nothing has changed in this industry after a year and still many cowboys out there, these guys don't give a damn about helping people with a gaming problem, infact they do everything they can to bleed your last penny!
    Casino in question 'spin palace'
     
    16 people like this.
  2. Jun 5, 2007
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Very poor,
    You should have been locked out INSTANTLY you tried to play again, and where you had to request reopening of an account this should have been referred to senior management who should have not done so until they had received a declaration from you that you no longer had a problem.

    Where there IS a slip up, then ALL bets should be void, not just when you win.

    If it was a new account that was opened, they should have accepted the voiding of bets once they discovered you had a problem, and could prove it.

    It would be fair to name BOTH casinos, not just Spin Palace, as both are lacking.

    MG casinos should be better than this, they are quick to ban players who raise fraud suspicion flags, so why are there no flags raised when a former declared addict tries to play again.

    Where a former addict IS accepted back, their deposit limits should be strictly limited, not just by method, but by AMOUNT, and all credit card methods should be banned.
    UKASH is particularly inconvenient when it comes to "chasing behaviour", so only allowing UKASH has the following benefits:-

    1) Player can only play with cash currently in their possession.
    2) They have to go to the nearest paypoint to get more, and 100 is the top limit per voucher (possibly per shop visit).
    3) They should not allow ANY reversal of a withdrawal, and should pay by cheque if the player is able to deal with them, as this puts a brake on the speed this money can be redeposited and lost.

    4) When players request exclusion, they should be able to specify a time limit at the outset, which should be set in stone so they cannot lose control and have a change of mind.
     
    6 people like this.
  4. Jun 5, 2007
  5. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    Thanks for sharing, and some excellent advice there Vinyl!

    Problem is, casino's want -- in fact -- NEED the chasers, it's their lifeblood. To put restrictions like 'UKash' only in place would only damage their bottom line. (As it happens, I quite like using UKash to 'set' my bankroll, but it helps I've got a mate who just sorts it out for me and saves me going down the shops myself!)

    IMHO, Wagerworks have the best 'self restricting' setup...
     
  6. Jun 5, 2007
  7. thetic

    thetic Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Scotland
    Let It Ride, I know a little about gambling addiction and think the casinos in question should be taken off accredited list (if they are on, I haven't checked) for this type of behaviour. I am not surprised a casino won't pay you back after you have lost at it after slipping through the net (not condoning it in any way) but to withold winnings for this reason is beyond belief! They should be wishing you well, paying out and letting you know you will never be allowed near their casino again...

    You realise you have issues and can not control your gambling once started, I do not want to patronise you at all but you need to be putting up all barriers possible to stop you gambling again. Gamblers anonymous believe that if can not control your gambling the likelihood is you will never be able to, once an addict always an addict. I am not qualified enough to advise whether this is correct or not but, if so, setting time limits and signing declarations saying you no longer have a problem is not good enough - GET AWAY FROM THE CASINOS AND STAY AWAY.

    I would also suggest that you get Gamblock ( You must register/login in order to see the link. , I have no connection and apologies for posting link if this is against forum rules but feel it is worthwhile for this thread) installed on each computer that you use for your gaming. However it is linked to individual computers so keep away from internet cafes and reinstall it on a new PC if you get one! Gamblock should stop you getting access to any of these sites for the period of your subscription ($75 for 1 year) so take out the longest one you can (up to 3 years I believe). The price is maybe high for the software involved but should pay for itself many times over and save you a lot of temptation.

    I wish you well in your quest to come through this whichever manner you decide to tackle your addiction.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jun 5, 2007
  9. thetic

    thetic Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    Scotland
    Just noticed your slogan at bottom of your posting and think that your 1st step would be to change this!
     
  10. Jun 6, 2007
  11. Centre-Wise

    Centre-Wise Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Rep
    Location:
    Sydney
    It is because of this type of behaviour that the industry suffers, problem gambling must be a top priority for any Casino or Pokerroom. Once a player identifies him/herself as a problem gambler the Casino in question should stop all account activity, failure to do so should result in a refund of deposits and voiding of bets from the point at which the player indicated they had a gambling problem.

    It is the nature of a problem gambler to slip up every now and then, so it falls to the Casino to be ready and prepared to step in, stop, prevent and help the problem gambler from further damaging themselves.

    I very much support responsible wagering; I believe its necessary for the industry to take care of itself, having attended the Gamecare course on responsible wagering, I recommend others to do so also. It offers insight into interesting ideas on how to recognise and offer advice regarding this matter.

    Its unfortunate that those Casinos acted as they did, I believe you should request to speak with management regarding your case at the 2nd Casino. Inform them that they failed in their responsibility to act correctly and considering that you were clearly flagged as a Problem gambler (which they acknowledged), they should never have allowed you to open an account. In fact encouraging you to email in to confirm you had recovered from an addiction (which you cannot judge for yourself, and requires a medical confirmation) is irresponsible.

    Cheers,

    Dorian
     
    8 people like this.
  12. Jun 6, 2007
  13. NASHVEGAS

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,

    Occupation:
    LOL
    Location:
    MERS
    I dunno.
    The tobacco companies tell me smoking may be hazardous to my health
    The alcohol companies want me to drink responsibily
    Casinos have an 800 number for gambling irresponsibily
    My mother always told me not to play in the RAIN
    and Now the condom companies tell me to wear a RAINCOAT.:confused::confused::confused::D
    What's a man to do???
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Jun 6, 2007
  15. Let_It_Ride

    Let_It_Ride Quit Gambling

    Occupation:
    none
    Location:
    europe
    thank you to everyone who has replied and for thier support and sound advice. I would love to speak to spin palace management but this has proved impossible, they only to seem to communicate via their customer service people.

    I accept online casinos are a business like any other, and businesses are there to make money, but do they really need to increase their profit margins by another 1 or 2% by prying on the sick.

    A few months ago my doctor told me I am suffering from major depression, he explained it is an illness and addication is very much a part of this illness. and the best way to deal with this as well as the drugs is to accept you are ill and ask for help.

    So come on online casinos, ask yourself do you really need that extra 1% profit at the cost of players ruined lives. You have the power and the software to stop problem gamblers, as I said I opened new accounts using exactly the same name, address etc. are you really saying your software could not spot this, well not until a withdrawal was made lol!!!!!!!
     
  16. Jun 6, 2007
  17. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Good post, Centre-wise. Underage and problem gambling are two of the most frequent sticks used by online gambling detractors to beat up the industry, and preventing both should be a major priority.

    If this report is true, Spin Palace has some explaining to do imo.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Jun 6, 2007
  19. Let_It_Ride

    Let_It_Ride Quit Gambling

    Occupation:
    none
    Location:
    europe
    Hi jetset, the report is true, I have no hidden agenda here. Over the weekend 18/05 I deposited over 600euros, on the 21/05 I got the email below, sorry it's in french, but that's because I live in France.

    Cher xxxxxx,


    Numro de compte: xxxxxxxxxxx


    Vous vous tiez auparavant exclu des jeux sur les casinos en ligne, apparament parce que vous aviez un problme psychologique dans ce domaine. Afin que nous puissions vous permettre de jouer nouveau sur notre casino, nous avons besoin que vous nous envoyiez un email prcisant que vous avez pu rsoudre ce problme.
    Nous ncessitons cela pour conserver notre cachet eCOGRA.

    Nous vous remercions de votre comprhension.
    Surtout n'hsitez pas nous recontacter si vous avez besoin de quoi que ce soit d'autre.


    Cordialement,

    xxxxxx


    a very basic translation : in the past you have been excluded from online gaming because you have a gambling problem. Before we can let you play at our casino again we need you to confirm that you no longer have a problem. We need this in order to keep our eCOGRA certificate.

    Thankyou for you understanding..... regards,

    I'll be more then happy to provide the spin palace rep here (is he still around Darren?) any other info if he wants to look into this.
     
  20. Jun 6, 2007
  21. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    Hi "let it ride"

    This post will probably cause a storm and people will probably be mad at me but I am not one to hold back because it's not a popular answer. The reality is.....you asked us about something and not everyone will agree.

    I want you to know that this post is not in malice. I feel bad for you because I understand addiction, truely I do.

    The thing is....the reality is that addicts have relapses, no matter the addiction. This doesnt mean your going to fall down forever, you recognized it and did something about by writing these casinos and having your account closed BUT........You cant really blame them. That is like asking a bar to remember you and never serve you a drink because of alcoholism or telling a drug dealer not to serve you anymore because you are a drug addict. The reality is that this is their bread and butter and unfortunately, they depend on addicts to do well.

    I wish we could just tell our "companies, suppliers, bars to do this and it would work but everything falls on the addict not to be tempted. Again, I know this and wont go into this because this post is about you, not me.

    I wish you well and will never judge you or anyone else that has a relapse. I just feel we shouldnt blame the people who make a living sucking money from people. It is up to us to stay strong and make phone calls and find ways to distract ourselves.
     
    2 people like this.
  22. Jun 6, 2007
  23. Palace Group

    Palace Group Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Online
    Serious

    Hi all,

    I can appreciate what Babs is saying however we do have pretty strict rules when it comes to people with gaming problems.
    I have PM'd the player and will see what happened here.

    We work on a lot of rule sets when it comes to picking up accounts that may be linked/on our gaming problem data base however players do find ways through.

    I would really prefer to look into this particular case and establish what happened before making any comments.

    Looking forward to your PM Let It Ride..

    Regards,

    Darran
     
  24. Jun 6, 2007
  25. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    Crocodile tears

    Okay my first post.

    To begin dont take me wrong, I myself like gambling and dont have a problem with it.

    But this thread is not a surprice to me when I reckon that problem and pathological (P&P) gamblers (2-5% of population where casinos exists) acccounts for about 50% of casino revenues. Also to remember is that 10% of the population accounts for 80% of the revenues. Expressed in reverse 90% of the population provides as little as 20% of the revenues. (Grinols&Mustard)
    These were numbers of B&M casinos in the US. These are propably quite accurate for online casinos too.

    Keeping this in mind its not in the casinos benefit to exclude P&P gamblers. Its quite easy to recognize a P&P gambler and have you ever heard of a casino that has taken the first step?
     
  26. Jun 6, 2007
  27. MPB

    MPB Dormant account

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    Germany
    What was the other casino the OP played at?
    I think it has behaved much worse than Spin Palace did.
    It simply stole all winnings with a rather poor excuse.
    How big are the chances he would have as easily been refunded his deposit if he lost? I can't help to think they are far below zero.
     
  28. Jun 6, 2007
  29. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    forgot something

    I just wanted to make it clear that I thinks it horrible that they wouldnt cash out the winnings because they took the deposit. I was focused on the other issue and didnt want you guys to think LER shouldnt get the winnings
     
  30. Jun 6, 2007
  31. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    I don't think they were so wrong not to refund your losses. You gambled and lost. You need to take responsibility and not blame the casino for your mistake.

    Maybe some good will come out of it though if Spin Palace reviews its policies and procedures to better prevent problem gamblers from slipping thru in the future.
     
    4 people like this.
  32. Jun 6, 2007
  33. jerrylee

    jerrylee Dormant account

    Occupation:
    policymaker
    Location:
    Playa del Vaquero (I wish)
    Hi Let_It_Ride, I've taken a break from posting here for a while, but will offer some insight. It's not unheard of for players to use one account for a while, and then close it for one reason or another. Then players can create a new one and the system doesn't detect it until a transaction is made. I heard that casinos do this, because there are literally 1000s of players accounts and many of them are inactive (no withdrawal requests), so it wouldn't make sense to analyze them all..just the ones that show activity.
    True, it would have been better to lock you out before instead of after the fact.


    Having worked in e-commerce, I heard credit card purchases are more risky to the casino. They can be charged back at any time, players often claim they didn't authorize charges, don't recognize, it wasn't them, etc.. then the casino loses both the purchase and if it goes to chargeback, a knock against their record. Above a certain percentage and they'll get in trouble with their processor and at worst, be eliminated and put on a black list.

    I believe neteller guarantees transactions for merchants, whereas visa does not. So there's less risk with neteller and it's not reversible.

    Ok, I don't know how a player can prove he's no longer an addict, maybe show proof of being enrolled in GA... that's a pretty fishy request.

    But looking from the casinos point of view, player like you, addiicted and spending on the casino operation is what pays the bills. They still have to spend $$ on their hardware, personnel, licensing, etc. Granted I think the second casino messed up, letting it go too far. There is such a thing as responsible gaming and it's a 2 way street.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Jun 6, 2007
  35. cyprean

    cyprean Banned User PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Freelancer
    Location:
    Sun/Moon
    Agree. So what was the name of the 1st casino?
     
  36. Jun 7, 2007
  37. Centre-Wise

    Centre-Wise Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Rep
    Location:
    Sydney
    I would have to disagree with this post.

    If we take the bar environment, with customers coming up to the bar day in day out, yes it would be hard to expect the bar staff to remember a particular person.

    However in the casino environment you have more than just a face to go by.

    A player would or should be recorded on a separate database clearly indicating that they should not be allowed to open an account, deposit or even place a bet. It is then the responsibility of the Casino to run a successful duplicate account search which would identify these players on log in or registration, there are other reasons why this function is necasery(history of chargebacks, bonus abusers etc.).

    It is because of the fact that addicts slip up that the Casinos need to take the next step and prepare themselves for the inevitable, it’s not like this type of situation is unique.

    Ethics need to be taken into consideration when considering responsible wagering, it’s not just a point of saying "we support problem gamblers", but rather the proactive steps made to identify and prevent these users from ruining their lives. As mentioned briefly an additional incentive towards making these steps is that if you stop the problem gambler before he makes the deposit, there is a good chance you could be avoiding a chargeback.

    However saying this, its not just the sole purpose of the Casino to make these steps but rather any identified Problem gambler has to help themselves, seek medical advice, block and delete any Casinos and Poker products, close your sportsbook accounts etc…

    As to the behaviour of the 1st Casino, I would say that the response was the correct one to take, it is unfortunate that the player won and there’s no way to prove if they would have behaved in the same way had the player had lost instead.

    Cheers,

    Dorian
     
    2 people like this.
  38. Jun 7, 2007
  39. Palace Group

    Palace Group Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Online
    Reply

    Hi all,

    I had a look into the case and will confirm the following:

    The player contacted us in July last year to ask for an exclusion
    It was confirmed that we ofer a 6 month exclusion to which the player agreed and was subsequently locked and blocked for 6 months
    The player came back to us in May and registered a new account
    We did not in any way contact, entice or offer this player anything to open a new account or re-open their existing account with us
    We honoured the 6 month ban agreed upon by both parties and were in our right to accept the player again
    Once the player informed us he still had a problem, we once again blocked/locked him.

    I hope this clarifies why the player was allowed to deposit and play.

    Kind regards,

    Darran
    The Palace Group
     

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