I'm such an idiot to start playing online again!

[Let_It_Ride]

Last year I finally accepted I have a gambling problem and stopped gambling for nearly a year and informed all the casinos about my problem and asked them to exclude me. A few weeks ago in a moment of weakness I tired to re-open or open new accounts (using the same PC, name, address and card details). Most casinos were good and said they were unable to let me play as I had excluded myself, this is good this is was us addicts need in moments of weakness.

However my story is about my experience with two casino that let me play again and the different way they handled my account.

Casino one let me open a new account, deposit and play, here I won 100euros and requested a withdrawal, a few days later I get an email saying we see you have a gaming problem we have closed your account, all bets are void! so no winnings and refunded my original deposit. Question, I used the same name, address etc. can the system have not locked me out before I played? Still for only a 100euro win I'm not gonna stress and atleast these guys have finally locked me out and stopped me playing.

Casino two, re-opened my old account, online chat also highlighted they see I have a gambling problem so I can only deposit with NETeller now and not my VISA card (what difference this makes I do not know!) they also asked me to email them to say I no longer have a gambling problem, this I never did.
I then spend the weekend playing and all the stress and addiction come back, I deposit, lose, chase, deposit, lose, chase... break even, withdrawal, go away. Have the sweats, come back, reverse 100, lose, reverse 200 lose, reverse 300, break even, withdraw. Next day reverse withdraw, play and lose everything, finally say STOP you're killing yourself and manage to walk away.

2 days later I get an email saying we can't let you play at our casino until you confirm you are no longer an addict, I write back saying you've let me play all weekend and I'm still very much an addict, ask them to close my account and ask if they will void my bets deposits as did casino one. They say will refer this to management, over 1 week later and after several emails from me I finally get a reply, they confirm my account is closed, but sorry management say no bets are void! what a surprise, I'm sure it would be a different story if I had won, like at casino number 1.

Shows nothing has changed in this industry after a year and still many cowboys out there, these guys don't give a damn about helping people with a gaming problem, infact they do everything they can to bleed your last penny!
Casino in question 'spin palace'

 

[vinylweatherman]

Very poor,
You should have been locked out INSTANTLY you tried to play again, and where you had to request reopening of an account this should have been referred to senior management who should have not done so until they had received a declaration from you that you no longer had a problem.

Where there IS a slip up, then ALL bets should be void, not just when you win.

If it was a new account that was opened, they should have accepted the voiding of bets once they discovered you had a problem, and could prove it.

It would be fair to name BOTH casinos, not just Spin Palace, as both are lacking.

MG casinos should be better than this, they are quick to ban players who raise fraud suspicion flags, so why are there no flags raised when a former declared addict tries to play again.

Where a former addict IS accepted back, their deposit limits should be strictly limited, not just by method, but by AMOUNT, and all credit card methods should be banned.
UKASH is particularly inconvenient when it comes to "chasing behaviour", so only allowing UKASH has the following benefits:-

1) Player can only play with cash currently in their possession.
2) They have to go to the nearest paypoint to get more, and 100 is the top limit per voucher (possibly per shop visit).
3) They should not allow ANY reversal of a withdrawal, and should pay by cheque if the player is able to deal with them, as this puts a brake on the speed this money can be redeposited and lost.

4) When players request exclusion, they should be able to specify a time limit at the outset, which should be set in stone so they cannot lose control and have a change of mind.

 

[Slotster!]

Thanks for sharing, and some excellent advice there Vinyl!

Problem is, casino's want -- in fact -- NEED the chasers, it's their lifeblood. To put restrictions like 'UKash' only in place would only damage their bottom line. (As it happens, I quite like using UKash to 'set' my bankroll, but it helps I've got a mate who just sorts it out for me and saves me going down the shops myself!)

IMHO, Wagerworks have the best 'self restricting' setup...

 

[thetic]

Let It Ride, I know a little about gambling addiction and think the casinos in question should be taken off accredited list (if they are on, I haven't checked) for this type of behaviour. I am not surprised a casino won't pay you back after you have lost at it after slipping through the net (not condoning it in any way) but to withold winnings for this reason is beyond belief! They should be wishing you well, paying out and letting you know you will never be allowed near their casino again...

You realise you have issues and can not control your gambling once started, I do not want to patronise you at all but you need to be putting up all barriers possible to stop you gambling again. Gamblers anonymous believe that if can not control your gambling the likelihood is you will never be able to, once an addict always an addict. I am not qualified enough to advise whether this is correct or not but, if so, setting time limits and signing declarations saying you no longer have a problem is not good enough - GET AWAY FROM THE CASINOS AND STAY AWAY.

I would also suggest that you get Gamblock ( www.gamblock.com , I have no connection and apologies for posting link if this is against forum rules but feel it is worthwhile for this thread) installed on each computer that you use for your gaming. However it is linked to individual computers so keep away from internet cafes and reinstall it on a new PC if you get one! Gamblock should stop you getting access to any of these sites for the period of your subscription ($75 for 1 year) so take out the longest one you can (up to 3 years I believe). The price is maybe high for the software involved but should pay for itself many times over and save you a lot of temptation.

I wish you well in your quest to come through this whichever manner you decide to tackle your addiction.

 

[thetic]

Just noticed your slogan at bottom of your posting and think that your 1st step would be to change this!

 

[Centre-Wise]

It is because of this type of behaviour that the industry suffers, problem gambling must be a top priority for any Casino or Pokerroom. Once a player identifies him/herself as a problem gambler the Casino in question should stop all account activity, failure to do so should result in a refund of deposits and voiding of bets from the point at which the player indicated they had a gambling problem.

It is the nature of a problem gambler to slip up every now and then, so it falls to the Casino to be ready and prepared to step in, stop, prevent and help the problem gambler from further damaging themselves.

I very much support responsible wagering; I believe its necessary for the industry to take care of itself, having attended the Gamecare course on responsible wagering, I recommend others to do so also. It offers insight into interesting ideas on how to recognise and offer advice regarding this matter.

Its unfortunate that those Casinos acted as they did, I believe you should request to speak with management regarding your case at the 2nd Casino. Inform them that they failed in their responsibility to act correctly and considering that you were clearly flagged as a Problem gambler (which they acknowledged), they should never have allowed you to open an account. In fact encouraging you to email in to confirm you had recovered from an addiction (which you cannot judge for yourself, and requires a medical confirmation) is irresponsible.

Cheers,

Dorian

 

[NASHVEGAS]

I dunno.
The tobacco companies tell me smoking may be hazardous to my health
The alcohol companies want me to drink responsibily
Casinos have an 800 number for gambling irresponsibily
My mother always told me not to play in the RAIN
and Now the condom companies tell me to wear a RAINCOAT.
What's a man to do???

 

[Let_It_Ride]

thank you to everyone who has replied and for thier support and sound advice. I would love to speak to spin palace management but this has proved impossible, they only to seem to communicate via their customer service people.

I accept online casinos are a business like any other, and businesses are there to make money, but do they really need to increase their profit margins by another 1 or 2% by prying on the sick.

A few months ago my doctor told me I am suffering from major depression, he explained it is an illness and addication is very much a part of this illness. and the best way to deal with this as well as the drugs is to accept you are ill and ask for help.

So come on online casinos, ask yourself do you really need that extra 1% profit at the cost of players ruined lives. You have the power and the software to stop problem gamblers, as I said I opened new accounts using exactly the same name, address etc. are you really saying your software could not spot this, well not until a withdrawal was made lol!!!!!!!

 

[jetset]

It is because of this type of behaviour that the industry suffers, problem gambling must be a top priority for any Casino or Pokerroom. Once a player identifies him/herself as a problem gambler the Casino in question should stop all account activity, failure to do so should result in a refund of deposits and voiding of bets from the point at which the player indicated they had a gambling problem.

It is the nature of a problem gambler to slip up every now and then, so it falls to the Casino to be ready and prepared to step in, stop, prevent and help the problem gambler from further damaging themselves.

I very much support responsible wagering; I believe it’s necessary for the industry to take care of itself, having attended the Gamecare course on responsible wagering, I recommend others to do so also. It offers insight into interesting ideas on how to recognise and offer advice regarding this matter.

It’s unfortunate that those Casinos acted as they did, I believe you should request to speak with management regarding your case at the 2nd Casino. Inform them that they failed in their responsibility to act correctly and considering that you were clearly flagged as a Problem gambler (which they acknowledged), they should never have allowed you to open an account. In fact encouraging you to email in to confirm you had recovered from an addiction (which you cannot judge for yourself, and requires a medical confirmation) is irresponsible.

Cheers,

Dorian

Good post, Centre-wise. Underage and problem gambling are two of the most frequent sticks used by online gambling detractors to beat up the industry, and preventing both should be a major priority.

If this report is true, Spin Palace has some explaining to do imo.

 

[Let_It_Ride]

If this report is true, Spin Palace has some explaining to do imo.

Hi jetset, the report is true, I have no hidden agenda here. Over the weekend 18/05 I deposited over 600euros, on the 21/05 I got the email below, sorry it's in french, but that's because I live in France.

Cher xxxxxx,


Numro de compte: xxxxxxxxxxx


Vous vous tiez auparavant exclu des jeux sur les casinos en ligne, apparament parce que vous aviez un problme psychologique dans ce domaine. Afin que nous puissions vous permettre de jouer nouveau sur notre casino, nous avons besoin que vous nous envoyiez un email prcisant que vous avez pu rsoudre ce problme.
Nous ncessitons cela pour conserver notre cachet eCOGRA.

Nous vous remercions de votre comprhension.
Surtout n'hsitez pas nous recontacter si vous avez besoin de quoi que ce soit d'autre.


Cordialement,

xxxxxx

a very basic translation : in the past you have been excluded from online gaming because you have a gambling problem. Before we can let you play at our casino again we need you to confirm that you no longer have a problem. We need this in order to keep our eCOGRA certificate.

Thankyou for you understanding..... regards,

I'll be more then happy to provide the spin palace rep here (is he still around Darren?) any other info if he wants to look into this.

 

[babs7262]

Hi "let it ride"

This post will probably cause a storm and people will probably be mad at me but I am not one to hold back because it's not a popular answer. The reality is.....you asked us about something and not everyone will agree.

I want you to know that this post is not in malice. I feel bad for you because I understand addiction, truely I do.

The thing is....the reality is that addicts have relapses, no matter the addiction. This doesnt mean your going to fall down forever, you recognized it and did something about by writing these casinos and having your account closed BUT........You cant really blame them. That is like asking a bar to remember you and never serve you a drink because of alcoholism or telling a drug dealer not to serve you anymore because you are a drug addict. The reality is that this is their bread and butter and unfortunately, they depend on addicts to do well.

I wish we could just tell our "companies, suppliers, bars to do this and it would work but everything falls on the addict not to be tempted. Again, I know this and wont go into this because this post is about you, not me.

I wish you well and will never judge you or anyone else that has a relapse. I just feel we shouldnt blame the people who make a living sucking money from people. It is up to us to stay strong and make phone calls and find ways to distract ourselves.

 

[Palace Group]

Serious

Hi all,

I can appreciate what Babs is saying however we do have pretty strict rules when it comes to people with gaming problems.
I have PM'd the player and will see what happened here.

We work on a lot of rule sets when it comes to picking up accounts that may be linked/on our gaming problem data base however players do find ways through.

I would really prefer to look into this particular case and establish what happened before making any comments.

Looking forward to your PM Let It Ride..

Regards,

Darran

 

[Tengil]

Crocodile tears

Okay my first post.

To begin dont take me wrong, I myself like gambling and dont have a problem with it.

But this thread is not a surprice to me when I reckon that problem and pathological (P&P) gamblers (2-5% of population where casinos exists) acccounts for about 50% of casino revenues. Also to remember is that 10% of the population accounts for 80% of the revenues. Expressed in reverse 90% of the population provides as little as 20% of the revenues. (Grinols&Mustard)
These were numbers of B&M casinos in the US. These are propably quite accurate for online casinos too.

Keeping this in mind its not in the casinos benefit to exclude P&P gamblers. Its quite easy to recognize a P&P gambler and have you ever heard of a casino that has taken the first step?

 

[MPB]

What was the other casino the OP played at?
I think it has behaved much worse than Spin Palace did.
It simply stole all winnings with a rather poor excuse.
How big are the chances he would have as easily been refunded his deposit if he lost? I can't help to think they are far below zero.

 

[babs7262]

forgot something

I just wanted to make it clear that I thinks it horrible that they wouldnt cash out the winnings because they took the deposit. I was focused on the other issue and didnt want you guys to think LER shouldnt get the winnings

 

[soflat]

I don't think they were so wrong not to refund your losses. You gambled and lost. You need to take responsibility and not blame the casino for your mistake.

Maybe some good will come out of it though if Spin Palace reviews its policies and procedures to better prevent problem gamblers from slipping thru in the future.

 

[jerrylee]

Last year I finally accepted I have a gambling problem and stopped gambling for nearly a year and informed all the casinos about my problem and asked them to exclude me. ..

Casino one let me open a new account, deposit and play, here I won 100euros and requested a withdrawal, a few days later I get an email saying we see you have a gaming problem we have closed your account, all bets are void! so no winnings and refunded my original deposit. Question, I used the same name, address etc. can the system have not locked me out before I played?

Hi Let_It_Ride, I've taken a break from posting here for a while, but will offer some insight. It's not unheard of for players to use one account for a while, and then close it for one reason or another. Then players can create a new one and the system doesn't detect it until a transaction is made. I heard that casinos do this, because there are literally 1000s of players accounts and many of them are inactive (no withdrawal requests), so it wouldn't make sense to analyze them all..just the ones that show activity.
True, it would have been better to lock you out before instead of after the fact.

Casino two, re-opened my old account, online chat also highlighted they see I have a gambling problem so I can only deposit with NETeller now and not my VISA card (what difference this makes I do not know!)

Having worked in e-commerce, I heard credit card purchases are more risky to the casino. They can be charged back at any time, players often claim they didn't authorize charges, don't recognize, it wasn't them, etc.. then the casino loses both the purchase and if it goes to chargeback, a knock against their record. Above a certain percentage and they'll get in trouble with their processor and at worst, be eliminated and put on a black list.

I believe neteller guarantees transactions for merchants, whereas visa does not. So there's less risk with neteller and it's not reversible.

2 days later I get an email saying we can't let you play at our casino until you confirm you are no longer an addict..

Ok, I don't know how a player can prove he's no longer an addict, maybe show proof of being enrolled in GA... that's a pretty fishy request.

But looking from the casinos point of view, player like you, addiicted and spending on the casino operation is what pays the bills. They still have to spend $$ on their hardware, personnel, licensing, etc. Granted I think the second casino messed up, letting it go too far. There is such a thing as responsible gaming and it's a 2 way street.

 

[cyprean]

What was the other casino the OP played at?
I think it has behaved much worse than Spin Palace did.
It simply stole all winnings with a rather poor excuse.
How big are the chances he would have as easily been refunded his deposit if he lost? I can't help to think they are far below zero.

Agree. So what was the name of the 1st casino?

 

[Centre-Wise]

This post will probably cause a storm and people will probably be mad at me but I am not one to hold back because it's not a popular answer. The reality is.....you asked us about something and not everyone will agree.

I want you to know that this post is not in malice. I feel bad for you because I understand addiction, truely I do.

The thing is....the reality is that addicts have relapses, no matter the addiction. This doesnt mean your going to fall down forever, you recognized it and did something about by writing these casinos and having your account closed BUT........You cant really blame them. That is like asking a bar to remember you and never serve you a drink because of alcoholism or telling a drug dealer not to serve you anymore because you are a drug addict. The reality is that this is their bread and butter and unfortunately, they depend on addicts to do well.

I wish we could just tell our "companies, suppliers, bars to do this and it would work but everything falls on the addict not to be tempted. Again, I know this and wont go into this because this post is about you, not me.

I wish you well and will never judge you or anyone else that has a relapse. I just feel we shouldnt blame the people who make a living sucking money from people. It is up to us to stay strong and make phone calls and find ways to distract ourselves.

I would have to disagree with this post.

If we take the bar environment, with customers coming up to the bar day in day out, yes it would be hard to expect the bar staff to remember a particular person.

However in the casino environment you have more than just a face to go by.

A player would or should be recorded on a separate database clearly indicating that they should not be allowed to open an account, deposit or even place a bet. It is then the responsibility of the Casino to run a successful duplicate account search which would identify these players on log in or registration, there are other reasons why this function is necasery(history of chargebacks, bonus abusers etc.).

It is because of the fact that addicts slip up that the Casinos need to take the next step and prepare themselves for the inevitable, it’s not like this type of situation is unique.

Ethics need to be taken into consideration when considering responsible wagering, it’s not just a point of saying "we support problem gamblers", but rather the proactive steps made to identify and prevent these users from ruining their lives. As mentioned briefly an additional incentive towards making these steps is that if you stop the problem gambler before he makes the deposit, there is a good chance you could be avoiding a chargeback.

However saying this, its not just the sole purpose of the Casino to make these steps but rather any identified Problem gambler has to help themselves, seek medical advice, block and delete any Casinos and Poker products, close your sportsbook accounts etc…

As to the behaviour of the 1st Casino, I would say that the response was the correct one to take, it is unfortunate that the player won and there’s no way to prove if they would have behaved in the same way had the player had lost instead.

Cheers,

Dorian

 

[Palace Group]

Reply

Hi all,

I had a look into the case and will confirm the following:

The player contacted us in July last year to ask for an exclusion
It was confirmed that we ofer a 6 month exclusion to which the player agreed and was subsequently locked and blocked for 6 months
The player came back to us in May and registered a new account
We did not in any way contact, entice or offer this player anything to open a new account or re-open their existing account with us
We honoured the 6 month ban agreed upon by both parties and were in our right to accept the player again
Once the player informed us he still had a problem, we once again blocked/locked him.

I hope this clarifies why the player was allowed to deposit and play.

Kind regards,

Darran
The Palace Group

 

[dominique]

I don't think they were so wrong not to refund your losses. You gambled and lost. You need to take responsibility and not blame the casino for your mistake.

I do agree.

If addiction had no negative consequences, no one would ever feel compelled to quit.

Addiction is for life, unfortunately so. Everytime you let yourself slip, you will have a problem.

It is good for the casinos to prevent addicts from playing (for life!!! not 6 months) but it is you who is responsible for managing your addiction.

The alcoholic who slipped cannot claim his health back, and you can't claim your money back.

Chalk it up to a lesson learned... and you will benefit.

 

[jetset]

New stats on problem gambling

BWIN STUDY SHOWS LOW PERCENTAGE OF ONLINE PROBLEM GAMBLING

In a survey of 40 499 respondents, only 1 percent showed addictive signs

The Vienna listed Bwin Interactive online betting group has released an appetiser on the mammoth online gambling survey it has been working on with Cambridge Health Alliance (CHA), an affiliate of the prestigious Harvard Medical School .

The full results of the study, which took place between February and October 2005 and embraced 40 499 players on the Bwin websites, are expected soon.

Speaking at the GIGSE conference in Montreal this week, CHA director Richard A LaBrie described the survey as the first public study of actual e-gaming behaviour, a statement that does not take into account an 11 000 respondent global study undertaken last year by the University of Nottingham Trent for eCOGRA.

LaBrie told delegates that the study showed that the median behaviour of bettors amounted to a spend of Euro 4 per day. According to the research, only 1 percent of the 40 499 respondents exhibited behaviour which could be read as problem gambling, or discontinuously high.

Euro 61.6 million was wagered during the study, and 7.8 million bets placed. For the 39 719 players classified as median bettors, total average wagers for the duration of the study was Euro 148.

Referring to the 1 percent of the sample who might be regarded as potentially problematic, LaBrie revealed that even these are only spending the equivalent of maybe a good bottle of wine a day, online.

Regarding the study methodology, all of the studys participants were from the Bwin website, and the survey covered both account fixed-odds and live action betting.

 

[Let_It_Ride]

Hi all,

We honoured the 6 month ban agreed upon by both parties and were in our right to accept the player again
Once the player informed us he still had a problem, we once again blocked/locked him.

I hope this clarifies why the player was allowed to deposit and play.

Kind regards,

Darran
The Palace Group

if you were in the right then why after 3 days (21st) did spin palace email me asking me to confirm that I no longer had a gambling problem before you could let me play? the proof is there man, but you only see what you want and twist the facts in your favour.

You also took over a week and 3 email reminders before you confirmed my account closed.

6 month ban, BS, when I closed my account I was told it was a life ban and also my details would be shared with MG database so I could never play at an MG casino again, well I have news for ya, I can still play at MG casinos

Why did I only name this casino and not the other? simple spin palace management in my experience have always been arrogant and would not even discuss this with me, at least the mangement of the other casino took time to talk to me.

 

[Let_It_Ride]

I dunno.
The tobacco companies tell me smoking may be hazardous to my health
The alcohol companies want me to drink responsibily
Casinos have an 800 number for gambling irresponsibily
My mother always told me not to play in the RAIN
and Now the condom companies tell me to wear a RAINCOAT.
What's a man to do???

enjoy your snide comments while you can my friend, because tomorrow it might be you who falls over and will need a helping hand.

 

[happygobrokey]

the net makes it super easy for addicts of many things to fall off the wagon. gambling, porn, shopping, even sexual predators might be attempting to recover and find the pull of the computer too strong. it isn't entirely logical to just eliminate computers from one's life, but surely there must be avenues to curtail the availability of such things. gamblock has been mentioned, but there must be free software of similar nature or other ways of preventing oneself having access to certain sites/services. what if you just uninstall all your casino software and instruct your computer to disallow access to all the sites you know host casinos? you may still be vulnerable to new casinos that open up and you somehow find them, but if you can find the power to block before you can download, then you can hopefully keep casinos out of your life. we could keep a list here so anyone interested in this could easily copy the list into their internet block list, plus it would be interesting to attempt to list the website of every active casino on the internet.

someone said "take a walk, make a call" etc to get your mind off it kind of thing, well even if the compulsion to gamble is go great it feels overwhelming, you could do this. take only your driver's licence and a reasonable sum of cash (100-200 maybe, something that is totally expendable), and NO means of getting more money on you (like a debit/credit card), drive out to a live casino. leave a twenty locked in the car just to cover any emergency situation on the road, and if you lose your money and think you're going out to the car for the twenty, once you get there to grab it, just jump in and head home. i liken this to a safe-shoot/methadone clinic, it gives you what you need at a minimum of risk. and also, knowing that for you to gamble would take driving x miles and consume at least h hours of your life, then you will begin to not want to do it. quitting smokers often lock their smokes up and put them in like 20 ziplocs so getting them out is so much of a pain that you'd rather not smoke given how much of a task it is.

and i think restricted supervised preportioned gambling is not as bad a thing as if a recovering alcoholic were to go out of town and have a drink. gambling has a point to it, to try and win money, and there is a possibility of doing some good by gambling. abusing a substance does harm every time. the tough bit with gambling is that the instrument that provides it sits right in your living room or wherever your internet hooks up. surely recovering alcoholics wouldn't keep bottles of liquor within arm's reach while trying to abstain.

the best advice for addiction is ONE DAY AT A TIME. that's only the best you can do. wake up each day, and try your hardest to do what you need to to survive and be healthy.

 

[lojo]

Great points Happy. I guess the thing to keep in mind is that no 'one way' works for everyone.
My condolensces to the OP. I hope you don't decide to change your mind again if gambling is not healthy for you.

I looked at GamCare sometime back when a similar discussion was going on here. I was impressed that they didn't seem to be a 12-step clone or another arm of moral re-armament, Buchmanism, et al.

I hope gamblers-anonymous has a higher 'recovery' rate than AA, which is dismal ( tho no actual controlled studies have been performed, AA's success rate can be charted to 5% which is worse than the 7% rate for 'spontaneous remission')

My basis for this 'opinion'? Much study, former facilitator for SMART recovery, and advocate in the judicial system for non-coercion to 12 Step programs (have even argued before a district judge in my own case and won)

"but aren't you a fine example lojo?" Yip, indeed I am. A month ago I was gutterdrunk on a half gallon of vodka a day, and now I enjoy my mead and beer again with no troubles.

I used shaman herbs to clear my brain, but I wouldn't suggest that to anyone else any more than I would suggest that 'you' are powerless over any inanimate substance or compulsive behavior. (extreme chemical imbalances aside)

If any one has had enough of a behavior, and wants to terminate it, I wouldn't suggest "just for today (for tomorrow i do it again)" I would suggest rational emotive behavioral therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, or for the fix it yourself person, go to rational.org and take the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. {Just change 'alcohol' to gambling, heroin, overeating, whatever} It can free you of all the guilt and shame and remorse that may keep you repeating the behavior based on deciding to never do it again and never change your mind.

Good luck OP, and anyone else with a problem.

 

[catrina m]

Sometimes I find this hard to read. Gambling should be a fun pastime with no horror stories of losing house's and everything you own trying for the big win.Everyone ultimately is in control of thier own destiny. If you choose to gamble money you cant afford to lose, truth be told, you will lose it. Pay your bills, feed your family and perchance if you have a small suplus, risk it.

Risk is the key word. It is a risk to gamble. If you are sick as deemed by society as a problem gambler, no one can help you but yourself. Online casino's are no different than land based in that thier ultimate goal is to part you from your money. Yes, people do win but the majority lose.

Try to understand your basic human needs for survival. Take care of those first. Take care of the people who depend on you first. Then if you have the funds take a shot at the big brass ring. Do not depend on it. If you absolutely have to win to make it, you never will.

No group, or counseling, or paying someone to make your decisions can help you until you understand the word NO.

 

[cyprean]

BWIN STUDY SHOWS LOW PERCENTAGE OF ONLINE PROBLEM GAMBLING

In a survey of 40 499 respondents, only 1 percent showed addictive signs
.

lol @ this study

 

[cyprean]

I believe that if we would have never stumbled upon gambling, we would all have richer lives.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

enjoy your snide comments while you can my friend, because tomorrow it might be you who falls over and will need a helping hand.

LIR , No intent to be snide and my post might not be clear but snide and kicking someone when they are down or need help never entered my mind. I will take the blame for being vague. I have studied addiction and even posted a long research article a few days ago based on dopamine and gambling addiction. Your thread opens a wide range of issues which most have been represented by fair and balanced differing views so I see no need to address my views other than I am sure you are aware of the necessary steps and yes addiction is an illness and will probably be a lifelong battle but if you want to win that battle ,only you can. I apolgize for a post that hopefully you will accept as a misunderstanding....best of luck. Nash.

 

[jetset]

lol @ this study

Study results are always received with mixed opinions, and I expected that this one would be no different because although executed by a reputable organisation (Harvard Medical School's addiction associate Cambridge Health), it was actually commissioned by a gambling group.

I don't believe that invalidates it.

This information was just a teaser, released at GIGSE time for maximum impact and to generate interest in the full survey which we will no doubt see published widely by Bwin in the near future. Thus, it's probably premature to make judgements on the validity of the survey despite the large sample and the respect which the Harvard name lends to it.

Taking a risk before the full results are out, I will say that most of the problem gambling experts I have spoken to will probably not be surprised at the 1 percent number, which is at the low end of conventional (land) casino gambling assessments that (land) problem gamblers typically constitute between 1 and 3 percent of the total.

That's still way too many, which is why companies need to constantly strive to block this sort of gambler for moral, social, political and business reasons.

Personally I look forward to the details of the whole project, which seems to be online gambling-focused and will therefore be of very relevant interest. I am looking forward particularly to comparing the Bwin results with the Nottingham Uni survey done last year for eCOGRA, and I find it encouraging that online organisations want more accurate and scientifically assessed knowledge on the player.

 

[Let_It_Ride]

lol @ this study

those figures seem way too low

I read somewhere a recent government report as saying upto 50% of people who gamble show some signs of addication. There is great concern in the UK about opening of the new super casinos and the problems it will cause to the nearby population.

 

[jetset]

I don't recall seeing such a figure as 50 percent, and I would have serious doubts about a figure of that magnitude for problem gambliers, but perhaps it's a question of what you regard as addiction (which you unfortunately seem to have, and should therefore try to abstain from gambling completely)

I regard even a 1 to 3 percent chance of problem gamblers as a serious concern which needs to be constantly addressed for the reasons stated earlier.

 

[dominique]

50% seems way out of whack.

Of course "some signs of addiction" is as vague as can be.

I am definitely addicted to coffee in the morning, and when the sun shines I feel compelled to step outside.

I can't wake up without a shower, I need my daily fix of news and I want meat with my dinner or I am not satisfied.

The statisfaction I get from gambling pales in comparison to any of these.

The % depends on the definition of "addiction".

If you define it as someone who cannot stop gambling even though s/he is losing the farm, I think the 2% are likely more than is actually the case. I know hundreds of people who gamble recreationally and spend about the same money on it per year as they do on their vacation.

The audience here is slanted to start, because all of us who take the time to post on a gambling forum have an interest in gambling that is more than average.

Addiction is still a mystery in many ways, but we do know that some are predisposed to it and others aren't.

Alcohol, cigarettes, a great variety of drugs, caffeine, chocolate, sports, exercise, carbohydrates, sugar, etc etc etc are all things some people become addicted to, meaning they cannot stop once they start and end up with hugely negative effects on their life.

The majority of people can indulge without complications.

Alcoholics for instance often become violent when drunk and get in fights or beat their wives or kill people in car crashes.

In comparison to other addictions, gambling is fairly harmless, you neither die from it nor do you kill others.

I am not trying to minimize it, all addictions are very bad for the individual and have dire consequences.

There is help for many addictions available, including gambling. But it is always the individual who needs to want to stop. No one can make an addict stop, no friend, no family and no law.

Only the addict him/herself can stop.

 

[pangloss]

In comparison to other addictions, gambling is fairly harmless, you neither die from it nor do you kill others.

I don't agree.


...

 

[Let_It_Ride]

There is help for many addictions available, including gambling. But it is always the individual who needs to want to stop. No one can make an addict stop, no friend, no family and no law.

Only the addict him/herself can stop.

I truely do want to stop I did last year and took steps to self exculde myself, and am also seeking medical help at the moment.

My intention in my first post was to highlight how different casinos are handling this problem, the good ones just said sorry can't reopen your account or locked out any attempt I made to open a new account, and for this I was grateful. I feel if all the casinos had done this and I know they can maybe the moment of weakness would have passed and I would not have started again.

Let me give you one more example from a casino they did let me play again, here is part of the email they sent me

Hi xxxxxx

I see that in the past that you have instructed us to close your account, and indeed have gone as far as asking to be self permanently self excluded from our Casino.

Now the key word here is permanent, however after answering a few simple questions, setting limits and a 24hour cool off period I was back online and playing, permanent should mean permanent.

Now this happened at one of the best casinos on the net, and from their reputation I truely believe they're not just in it for the money but do care about their players and want to help, but until all casinos put in place a hard set of rules, this will keep happening.

They have now closed my account from reading this thread and being able to match it with my casino account details (that is a bit scary they knew who I was from my post here )

I will keep trying to stop and thank everyone here for the encouragement, lets hope some of the casinos out there will also rethink their policy on this.

 

[Pinababy69]

In comparison to other addictions, gambling is fairly harmless, you neither die from it nor do you kill others.

I am not trying to minimize it, all addictions are very bad for the individual and have dire consequences.

While I agree with most of your post Dom about different addictions, and the level of pleasure they give you, I really have to disagree that gambling is fairly harmless. Sure, for anyone who has it totally under control, and doesn't have an addictive personality to start with..it may be harmless. But it can be just as dangerous an addiction as alchohol, cigarettes, drugs, sex, food, compulsive shopping, etc. They all have the potential to seriously destroy lives, if not kept in check, or dealt with. And not just the life of the person who is addicted, but also of those around them.

A serious gambling addiction is nothing to be trivialized, in any way. Just as a junkie will do ANYTHING to get his/her next fix, so too will a gambling addict. Including stealing, committing fraud, pawning items, not paying mortgages/rent and other bills, etc. I'm not talking of the recreational player, I'm talking about the ones who can't control themselves.

My thought is that anytime something controls you or your life rather than you controlling it...then you are in serious trouble, and need to seek help. And you need to help yourself as well, that's the first step.

 

[MPB]

Study results are always received with mixed opinions, and I expected that this one would be no different because although executed by a reputable organisation (Harvard Medical School's addiction associate Cambridge Health), it was actually commissioned by a gambling group.
I don't believe that invalidates it.

The scientific content might be very interesting or might be rubbish, without knowing methodology etc theres no real way to tell it.
From the littel what is known about gamblers, finding only 1% of them to expose signs of addction seems at the very lower end of what would be expected.
Anyway I think a statement like this

Referring to the 1 percent of the sample who might be regarded as potentially problematic, LaBrie revealed that even these are only spending the equivalent of “maybe a good bottle of wine a day”, online.

migth do a good job at discrediting the study, since it's a quite suggestive conclusion instead of a scientific statement you should expect from an objective researcher.
And I find it hard to believe that within a group of over 40000 gamblers there aren't a few who have lost really big by gambling way too much and costly.
On the other hand the havard guy might just be drinking very fine wine.

 

[Vesuvio]

Taking a risk before the full results are out, I will say that most of the problem gambling experts I have spoken to will probably not be surprised at the 1 percent number, which is at the low end of conventional (land) casino gambling assessments that (land) problem gamblers typically constitute between 1 and 3 percent of the total.

My guess would be that the percentage of problem gamblers will be higher on-line - you don't need to leave your house, everything's much faster, you're only clicking buttons rather than handling chips (which is already one remove from "real" money) and you can quickly reload without embarrassment or hassle, and so on...

Plus, this survey seems to be dealing with sports betting rather than casino gambling. There's a huge difference in terms of the potential for addiction. With sports betting there's almost a built-in cooling-off period as you're waiting for results, there's much more satisfaction simply from picking well, and the chances are most people will lose their deposits fairly slowly (over days, weeks or months) - it's much closer to on-line poker. At an on-line casino the average player probably keeps playing until they lose their deposit each session.

I'm not saying the survey might not be of interest (though the advance publicity is a bit distasteful, as MPB says), but I think we're in danger of comparing apples and oranges.

 

[just play]

With sports betting there's almost a built-in cooling-off period as you're waiting for results, there's much more satisfaction simply from picking well, and the chances are most people will lose their deposits fairly slowly (over days, weeks or months) - it's much closer to on-line poker. At an on-line casino the average player probably keeps playing until they lose their deposit each session.

This is SO true!!!

My husband can deposit $100 and have it last for a month or more depending on how well he charts, where as if I deposit $100, I am lucky to have it last for a few hours. (he gambles on dogs, I mainly gamble on slots)

He also gets very excited if he wins 20 bucks, as I just grown at a $20 win.


I would also like to add, gambling addiction is a very serious condition, people commit suicide (I'm sad to say I know a few people who have) because they get so far in the hole and have no way of coming out, marriages break up, etc...for the most part gamblers only spend what they can, but I am sure a lot of people don't pay a bill once in a while because of it.

 

[cyprean]

In comparison to other addictions, gambling is fairly harmless, you neither die

Actually people do rob banks, their employers and families just to fund gambling and gambling related debts. People also commit suicides because of gambling. So I don't agree with you.

I guess in general people easily underestimate the problems that gambling causes, especially if they work in and get paid by the industry.

 

[dominique]

Ok, you are all right. Suicides do happen, that's why Vegas has no balconys and you cannot even open the windows in the hotel rooms. And some people do steal to fund their gambling addiction, like in any other addiction.

My bad, I was mostly having alcoholic violence in my brain when I wrote this, and that is something I have seen a lot of in person.

I am sorry though, let-it-ride, don't think I don't sympathize or I don't care or I don't want you to get well, I do. Addiction is a disease, and you need to get well.

But you are not there yet. You keep blaming the casino and putting the responsibility off on the casino.

While I completely agree that your account should have been locked FOR LIFE, the casino cannot fix your disease. Putting the blame on the casino shows that you are not at the point where you really see what you are doing to yourself.

If you do not take complete responsibility for curing your disease, it can't be cured.

You are the only person who can do that, only you are responsible for what you do. Only you can stop. 30 casinos can block you for life, and you will find 30 more that do not know you. 30 banks can refuse to lend you money, and you will find one that does. 30 friends and family members can ask you to quit, and you will find someone who will play with you or encourage you.

It will always come back to one person, and that is you.

I know it's hard, any and all addictions are very, very hard to overcome. If you find a substiture behavior, it will be a bit easier. Alcoholics drink coffee instead. Sugar addicts eat apples instead. But no matter how you handle it (AND YOU MUST SEEK HELP! JOIN A GROUP THAT GIVES DAILY SUPPORT!), you will always be a problem gambler, even when you haven't gambled for 30 years, just like any other addict will always be addicted to their type of poison.

There is nothing easy about any of this, and there is no easy solution.

Take the necessary steps, all of the necessary steps. With acceptance of the responsibility and commitment to doing everything in your power and using every tool you can find (

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, many other sites and everything you can dig up that will help make you strong) you can and you will beat this!


PS. If you or anyone reading this ever use G&C as a portal, please ask to have your IP blocked. It's not perfect, if determined there are ways to circumvent, but likely it will be one less place to tempt you, and every proactive step you take helps make you stronger.

 

[Let_It_Ride]

oh how right you are, the casinos are not to blame, they've been as good as gold, how dare I dis them!

kick me one more time then I'll be off and kill myself

thanks spin palace, thanks 32Red, you guys bleed me dry last year and then you took the last few drops this time around, permanent should MEAN permanent. If a B&M casino let an excluded player in again they would be fined in a court of law. It really is a shame because I considered you both to be good casinos but if you can't get it right then there is no hope for the online industry.

and while I'm at it, I really hate this thanking system, you guys keep thanking each other not because of the post but because of who posted it, and then add nothing to the thread yourself

bye.

 

[jetset]

Good points raised in this thread.

I don't think any of us can make a judgement on the Bwin-Harvard-Cambridge survey until it (and its methodology) can be studied in full, and there is usually argument on these initiatives no matter what industry it involves.

Where such research surveys are genuine, they provide much useful information that adds to the body of knowledge and can lead to improvements in an industry imo.

Vesuvio's post raises a particularly interesting point, which I hope the full study may address. Much of the addictive gambling estimates have hitherto been based on land gambling statistics, a specialist from G4 in this field told me a couple of years ago.

He said his sub-industry was very keen to see an internet-focused study of addiction to assess whether there was a significant difference between addiction levels online and offline. Vesuvio's comment that there may be differences in addictive potential between sportsbetting and casino gambling puts another interesting question into the mix.

I think this is the sort of work that major companies or trade bodies such as the RGA, EGBA or IGC could earn real credibility by sponsoring - and perhaps Bwin have done that here - we'll see soon enough.

Various posters have emphasised the importance of the addict personally buying into the need to stop, but in this state of mind that can hardly be regarded as the ultimate solution. Help is needed, and I find myself in agreement with Let It Ride that in an ideal world ALL casinos would permanently exclude problem gamblers. But, we don't live in an ideal world and I don't see that happening.

Unfortunately, there will always be those bottom-feeders who see other venues banning problem gamblers as a business opportunity rather than the right moral thing to do, so even that solution will at best just make it more difficult (and dangerous) for the determined addict.

It also raises a range of problems, not least of which is the definition and identification of problem gamblers (there are diverse *levels* of addiction), the justice in taking unilateral action, and possibly disputes with self-excluders who want back in and subsequently turn nasty when they are refused.

The six month self-exclusion "cooling off" period is something that responsible gambling sites seem to believe is enough to give a potential problem gambler sufficient time to recover his or her equilibrium, but as we have seen here in hardcore cases it simply doesn't work....and again the addict can simply go elsewhere in the absence of an industry wide "black book" - another controversial prospect with the additional complication of practical application in the global Internet milieu!

Dominique has correctly pointed out that over-indulgence and addiction is found in many other areas of human activity, and the challenge is to work out where and how to draw the line between players who "show signs of addictive tendencies;" gamblers who are clearly addicted and need to be immediately banned for life without further ado and gamblers who seek to self-exclude but not necessarily for life.

The way things are now, it's pretty much the casinos that are left with the job of identifying potential problem gamblers and doing something about them - giving them the basic tools to assess their own condition (which many sites do) and directing them to responsible gambling agencies where they can volunteer for treatment. Other options include excluding them on request for six months, setting limits on their gambling time and action or imposing individual lifelong bans - and efficiently enforcing same. I think we need to encourage more casinos to adopt those sort of responsible gaming concepts.

Strict government regulation should insist on all of these elements being continually available, professionally applied and audited regularly, which to my mind is one of the strongest arguments for regulation. But how is global regulation to be effected in the era of the borderless Internet?

Addiction is a tough one to handle in any industry, because human ingenuity and cunning allied to such a problem can make an addict an elusive personality to pin down until it is already an advanced condition. And the addict is not always prepared or capable of helping himself.

The best we can hope for imo is a continued awareness at both player and industry level of the tragic consequences of addictive gambling and its potential for personal and domestic disaster, and increased efforts at the casinos to identify and exclude addictive gamblers.

Tarring all casinos with the same brush and claiming that they are happy to profit from problem gamblers is over simplifying this issue imo. The efforts that many of the better casinos are making to ameliorate this problem deserve recognition and need to be maintained and expanded to a wider range of venues, but progress is being made.

A sense of perspective is necessary for fairness, too - individual issues such as this thread explores serve a useful purpose in again highlighting the dangers and inadequacies of existing systems, but are not necessarily indicative of a widespread failure of anti-problem gambling measures.

 

[dominique]

oh how right you are, the casinos are not to blame, they've been as good as gold, how dare I dis them!

kick me one more time then I'll be off and kill myself

thanks spin palace, thanks 32Red, you guys bleed me dry last year and then you took the last few drops this time around, permanent should MEAN permanent. If a B&M casino let an excluded player in again they would be fined in a court of law. It really is a shame because I considered you both to be good casinos but if you can't get it right then there is no hope for the online industry.
bye.

That you should have been locked out for life goes without saying.

Whether the casinos are to blame is not what this is about though, it is about you. It is about you not gambling anymore.

Anger is an ok first step. But now you have to reach out and get help.

There are a good number of places where you can vent and get constructive help. If you type gambling addiction into google, a world of support will appear.

Let them help you help yourself!

 

[babs7262]

LIR

The reason for some of my "thanks" w/o follow up is because I thought I had said enough and just wanted to show that I agreed with the poster. If you EVER want to talk on the phone, please PM me and Ill be happy to talk to you.

 

[just play]

and while I'm at it, I really hate this thanking system, you guys keep thanking each other not because of the post but because of who posted it

Well, I would have to agree with this....but it's like that at any forum you go to.


I brought up suicide because I know of a few people who commited suicide because they gambled all their money away, and didn't think there was a way out....then a few others on this board brought it up after I did and they were thanked and not me....

But that's how it is on online forums, doesn't bother me *shrug*

 

[dominique]

Sorry, I thought I had thanked everyone who criticised my remark about gambling addiction being one of the lighter forms of addiction...

I didn't mean to leave you out. I don't thank by who is who, I usually thank if I think someone contributed something valuable or to show that I get what they said.

I probably don't give near enough thanks, but it's not on purpose or because of favoritism.

 

[lojo]

Well, this is a volitile thread, but lets not forget there is a heart there, a person whose decisions affect others, and is here crying out for help. The OP's bitch was not about casinos and blocking, it was a cry for help. I'm here to help you, OP. (I won't refer to you as let it ride as that is part of your addiction)

Forget what you think you know about addiction, it is probably either all wrong, or how you have interpreted it wrong. Or you would be well now, yes?

Forget about the disease concept, and turning your will and life over to God, and about being powerless. You are not powerless, and these things are all cop-outs and good reasons to gamble again when you fail them.

Forget the idea that only an addict can help another addict.

These things have not worked for you or you would not be here asking for help.

I'm not kicking you when you're down, and you're not going to top yourself because I am so mean. Call it tough love, call it compassion, but don't deny yourself the opportunity to be free of that monkey on your back.

At the level that it can be CURED, any addiction is simply a self-indulgent behavior. Remove the man from the computer, remove the alcohol, the heroin, the ice cream, and you are left with a thrill seeker of sorts, someone who has been rewarded by dopamine, seratonin, adreneline, etc. for a behavior at such a deep level that they will seek that feeling forever until it is understood and defeated or it destroys them.

Id, Ego, SuperEgo in freudstuff.

ID: I am thirsty

EGO: there is some liquid, let's drink it.

SUPEREGO: NO!!! That's oil, it will kill us.

All is fine and good.

id - I need something

ego- i felt good when i gambled

superego - NO!!! (well that message is never heard) it has been worn down by the ego (i need) until it believes that the behavior will make all well again.

In the phyical model, we have the midbrain, the same thing an ape or dog or cat has. It is where survival messages come from: I must drink, eat, sleep, love, find shelter. When it is misprogrammed by a deep reaching event (the first high, a big win, whatever) it comes to 'believe' that the problem behavior is necessary for survival! And it will feed messages to the neocortex (man's brain, the thing that seperates us from the beasts of the field) to get what it thinks it needs to survive. It's really that simple once the computer is removed from the house, the alcohol is out of the system, the heroin has run it's course (depending on severity of actual biological addiction)

This is not disease, it is misprogramming. A junky will steal from his mother, a drunk neglect his children, a gambler foresake everything to meet this perceived and erroneous need.

The good news is that you are not a beast, you are a human being with faculties to override this misprogramming. Your neocortex (where decisions are made to lift a glass or go online or get in the car to drive to a B&M) sits not only physically ON TOP of your midbrain, where the desire eminates from, but it also functions ON TOP of desire. Your mid brain can not tell your hand to go online, only your neocortex can. My addiction can not make me pick up a needle, it can only 'talk' to ME, my neocortex, that part of my brain that can and does control my hand to 'pick up and use' or 'go online'.

You are not spiritually ill, you do not need soul surgery, you do not need to join a group to correct your situation, you only need to reprogram the relationship between your misprogrammed survival instinct and your free will. This is great news!!! And it is amazingly simple!!!

If you seriously want to quit, no matter what, until the last star sputters in the sky, i will walk you through it, or put you in touch with the pioneers in this liberating, freedom making, earth shattering development that is really as old as humankind.

No need for spiritual beliefs, and no need to get rid of them unless you want to continue to believe that God did not give you free will and doesn't desire you to excercise it for you and your loved one's own good.

It's about complete and utter self responsibility and the self esteem that comes from conquering the animal in you. It's about no longer relying on others or programs or dogmas to stop your self destruction. And it's about being free forever, or at least having the tools and the choices to be.


Whatever you choose, I sincerely wish you the best and I hope that you have a positive response expectancy from whatever methodology you choose, because that is, indeed, more than half the battle. Call it faith if you enter or return to a 12 step program, call it hope if you use rational recovery, call it the placebo effect if you want, but expect results.

Good luck. PM me if want to know more or visit the link in my first response. But if you've been involved in a 12-step program, and you aren't able to debrief yourself with an honest effort with the Crash Course (do the excercises, feel when it says to feel, listen to your own voice in your head when it tells you to listen, challenge yourself when it tells you to) if you can't do that, stop and immediately call your sponsor and have him/her remove the internet connection from your home and stay with your 24/7 until you feel safe. It is heavy stuff and meant to deprogram all of the beliefs that have not worked for you. If you give it an honest effort you will be fine!!! I promise. It is simple (it's not easy) and it is liberating. And it is 100% about complete and thorough abstinence from the self-destructive behavior. Just replace the words 'alcohol/drugs, drinking/using', with gambling.

Again, good luck. We're all pulling for you however you decide to rise above your problem. I wish you health and happiness and a little laughter along the way

 

[just play]

Sorry, I thought I had thanked everyone who criticised my remark about gambling addiction being one of the lighter forms of addiction...

I didn't mean to leave you out. I don't thank by who is who, I usually thank if I think someone contributed something valuable or to show that I get what they said.

I probably don't give near enough thanks, but it's not on purpose or because of favoritism.

There is no sorry necessary, this is a forum where people read, learn and teach....I am thankful it is here.

I just hope Let-it-ride gets some help....I suffer from something (I don't feel comfortable saying what) and I go to doctors, shrinks, take meds, and I still can't beat what I have....I just hope he can.

I knew a couple of heavy gamblers a few years ago and they just quit cold turkey and I asked them how they did it, they said it got easier every time they looked at their bank account as it was growing. Maybe instead of spending money on gambling Let-it ride can buy himself something nice with all the money he will save? Just a thought.