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How likely is this?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by jpsartre, Jan 4, 2007.

    Jan 4, 2007
  1. jpsartre

    jpsartre Dormant account

    Location:
    Denmark
    I need some brainy people to give some comments on this recent run I had at BJ. What I've done is to look at the dealers end hand in the cases where he got to draw. In other words, the hands where I bust or got BJ are not included. The results are (with dealers end hand on the left and the number of times it happened on the right):

    Bust = 34
    17 = 19
    18 = 20
    19 = 14
    20 = 27
    21 = 29 (including 11 BJ).
     
  2. Jan 4, 2007
  3. EasyRhino

    EasyRhino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Analyst
    Location:
    San Diego
    First, if you think you're getting cheated, you're probably not. Assuming you're not playing at a shop that is rogued, or uses an unknown software provider, it's highly unlikely. I've played many thousands of online blackjack hands and experience some ridiculous streaks. Hell, just last night, I was playing a few hands of casino hold'em. I got two full houses in a row. The odds of that happening are four hundredths of 1 percent. (Not complaining).

    That being said, it does look like you got an outsized proportion of dealer 21's during that stretch. And it looks like you may have gotten less 19's than expected.

    I feel your pain, I've played through stretches like that, and I start to wonder if maybe my mouse is broken or something.
     
  4. Jan 4, 2007
  5. gerilege

    gerilege Meister Member PABnorogue PABrogue

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Hungary
    News flash

    I have only made some quick calculations, and I haven't checked my results.

    The below numbers should be only upper bounds, as you ignored the hands when you busted, and I think it means that the dealer's starting cards are usually worse in those cases when you do not bust. I mean you bust more often when the dealer shows a high card, and you will never bust when the dealer shows 3-6, in which cases the dealer will bust more often. Therefore your sample is a bit biased, and the real probabilites should be even smaller with your sample, but in general, the probability of:

    34 or less busts in 143 hands: 0.150796126
    29 or more 21s and BJs...: 0.003175056
    18 or more non-BJ 21s...: 0.018978694
    11 or more BJs...: 0.074982838
    14 or less 19s...: 0.126549641

    Nothing unusual I guess.
     
  6. Jan 4, 2007
  7. jpsartre

    jpsartre Dormant account

    Location:
    Denmark
    Just what I was looking for. Cheers :)

    And for the record, I did not think I was being cheated. Just thought I had a really bad run and was curious just how bad it was, statistically speaking.
     
  8. Jan 4, 2007
  9. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Statistically speaking, your sample size is too small to draw any conclusions :p

    But I agree, nothing unusual...just a bad session, that's all :)
     
  10. Jan 4, 2007
  11. tencardcharlie

    tencardcharlie Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Bureaucrat
    Location:
    The playboy mansion.
    Statistics can be used to prove anything. 14% of all people know that.
    -H. Simpson
     
  12. Jan 4, 2007
  13. jpsartre

    jpsartre Dormant account

    Location:
    Denmark
    I agree that you need a much larger sample to establish that a software is unfair, however, there is nothing wrong with smaller samples if you just want to see how unlucky you were. Betting $100 on red 5 times in a row and getting black each time will obviously not prove that the software is cheating but seeing that this will only happen around 4 time sout of a 100 I'd still say it was pretty unlucky :)
     
  14. Jan 4, 2007
  15. SKUNX

    SKUNX Banned User

    Occupation:
    Sales
    Location:
    Costa Rica
    Which casino was this at by the way ?
     
  16. Jan 4, 2007
  17. jpsartre

    jpsartre Dormant account

    Location:
    Denmark
    Eurobet.
     
  18. Jan 5, 2007
  19. EasyRhino

    EasyRhino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Analyst
    Location:
    San Diego
    Okay, I hear ya. I had a ridiculously bad run autoplaying over 10,000 roulette spins a while back. It was like 4 standard deviations off. In a way it was nice to know that I really was getting hosed. :)
     
  20. Jan 5, 2007
  21. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    4SD??? Where??? :eek:
     
  22. Jan 5, 2007
  23. EasyRhino

    EasyRhino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Analyst
    Location:
    San Diego
    Oh wait, looked up details: 9999 spins, 1 unit each, and a loss of 432 units. Some other dude estimate 3.265 SD? It was at Casinoshare (microgaming) grinding through a ginormous wagering requirement, in April.

    That's how I got my personal conviction that running quickspin and autoplay together on MG roulette is even a bigger gamble than you'd think.
     
  24. Jan 5, 2007
  25. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    It is easy to estimate SDs for 10,000 spins on roulette with 1 unit bets. The sqrt of 10,000 is 100. The SD per spin is roughly 1. So 1 SD is roughly 100*1. Assuming you were playing French Roulette, that would make it about 3SDs off from the expected loss of 134.

    I've found FR autoplay to be streaky, including at Casinoshare (actually more so at Casinoshare than elsewhere from my personal experience). There are several Casinomeister threads on this subject, including similar abnormal results. I have not found the odds to be distorted in favor of winning or losing... just streaky.
     

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