How is this possible? @PragmaticPlay

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TheAddict

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I must admit, the chances of a RANDOM set of symbols dropping down, in the exact same positions, for hours on end, does seem a little far fetched. How is that even possible? What are the calculated odds of it happening Dan? Must be in the millions to one bracket to happen twice let alone hundred of times

Might need to ask Bryan to increase the character limit on posts if you want that answer ;)
 

incrediblestuff

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All i can say is that this looks sketchy as hell, and indeed doesn't help that's it's the Pragmatic/dodgy casino combo, with yet another streamer that looks like he can't even afford a bar of soap. Sure, i may be judgemental there, but it's so odd to me that almost all of these streamers i have been shown with the Pragmatic/dodgy casino combo, almost all exclusively look like bums, with little to no show of actual emotions. Which is weird...

Oh and on the bum-look, it takes one to know one! I'm unfortunately very experienced in that regard :D
I know a lot of internet rich guys, that look like bums, being true to their roots, but most of those have some sort of 'career' that can be traced back to a starting point, whereas these PP/Dodgy Casino-streamers seem to coming from nowhere..

Combine that with the fact that there now have been multiple instances where industry 'insiders' have confirmed that the 'fake money' is a thing, it really turns me off, and i'm beyond skeptical at this point..

Anyway, carry on...:rolleyes:.
 

TamingTheBeast

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Combine that with the fact that there now have been multiple instances where industry 'insiders' have confirmed that the 'fake money' is a thing, it really turns me off, and i'm beyond skeptical at this point..

Any source to back that up? I'm willing to believe these things if we have verifiable sources
 

incrediblestuff

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Any source to back that up? I'm willing to believe these things if we have verifiable sources

I've had several people i know and trust tell me this, and seen several posters (on 3 or 4 forums) that i hold in high esteem/deem trustworthy, seen posting that.

I can't be arsed to be frank, i'm old and sick and have little energy to spare, but if you google for it yourself, i'm pretty sure you'll find enough to make you question things as well..

You can certainly find examples here, and perhaps on LCB, Casinogrounds and on Twitch and Youtube..#fakemoney, #streamerdeals etc.
 

dunover

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Any source to back that up? I'm willing to believe these things if we have verifiable sources
Well, I was on two occasions, by different casino groups, offered a 'special' account to stream with...
 

TamingTheBeast

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Well, I was on two occasions, by different casino groups, offered a 'special' account to stream with...

Right well obviously when it comes to these special accounts, they come from Casinos themselves offering that and not the game provider. I 100% believe you had these sketchy deals offered to you.

These special accounts you talk about are probably like money deals and NOT "special streamers RTP or rigged games or whatever" which is what this thread is turning into. (Unless you tell us otherwise)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes there is funny stuff in the industry I 100% believe that but this fruit party situation IMO has literally NOTHING to do with any funny business and claiming so I think is completely ridiculous. It's as if bugs and glitches never happen in software which everyone knows is false.

Seeing this game round bug and automatically associating it to pragmatic/casino deals is just a false equivalency. Especially when Pragmatic says the win is valid and accepted can't we just be happy about that? I can't imagine the controversy if they came and told us the win is void for whatever reason
 

TamingTheBeast

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I've had several people i know and trust tell me this, and seen several posters (on 3 or 4 forums) that i hold in high esteem/deem trustworthy, seen posting that.

I can't be arsed to be frank, i'm old and sick and have little energy to spare, but if you google for it yourself, i'm pretty sure you'll find enough to make you question things as well..

You can certainly find examples here, and perhaps on LCB, Casinogrounds and on Twitch and Youtube..#fakemoney, #streamerdeals etc.

You seem to be well versed in the industry so I will not refute you or argue especially if you can't be arsed about it ;).

I just have a hard time to find hard evidence in MOST of these claims especially since it often comes from frustrated addicts who try to find any way possible to confirm their bias in automatically thinking I lost all my money so this is rigged or a scam and that by itself is annoying and something I see in this forum on a daily basis.
 

dunover

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Right well obviously when it comes to these special accounts, they come from Casinos themselves offering that and not the game provider. I 100% believe you had these sketchy deals offered to you.

These special accounts you talk about are probably like money deals and NOT "special streamers RTP or rigged games or whatever" which is what this thread is turning into. (Unless you tell us otherwise)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes there is funny stuff in the industry I 100% believe that but this fruit party situation IMO has literally NOTHING to do with any funny business and claiming so I think is completely ridiculous. It's as if bugs and glitches never happen in software which everyone knows is false.

Seeing this game round bug and automatically associating it to pragmatic/casino deals is just a false equivalency. Especially when Pragmatic says the win is valid and accepted can't we just be happy about that? I can't imagine the controversy if they came and told us the win is void for whatever reason
No, the slots weren't in question, but at the time they would have been the max RTP versions. No question of being rigged games I could have played, not suggesting that at all. Then again, if you search the forum for the GameArt demo slots scandal where Videoslots were offering bent demos paying over 100% on their site, you could see how feasible it is to play with demo/fake cash AND always win (or seem to!)

EDIT - In fact, read through this to see any bollocks in streaming is theoretically possible:

Demo play not the same as real - GameArt slots - Casinomeister Forum

The above is simply an untrustworthy developer who once even claimed to have a MGA license which was a lie.
Pragmatic Play (originally TopGame, another highly questionable outfit in their day) seem to be OK nowadays but to me and others there has always been at least a faint whiff about them...
 

TamingTheBeast

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No, the slots weren't in question, but at the time they would have been the max RTP versions. No question of being rigged games I could have played, not suggesting that at all. Then again, if you search the forum for the GameArt demo slots scandal where Videoslots were offering bent demos paying over 100% on their site, you could see how feasible it is to play with demo/fake cash AND always win (or seem to!)

EDIT - In fact, read through this to see any bollocks in streaming is theoretically possible:

Demo play not the same as real - GameArt slots - Casinomeister Forum

The above is simply an untrustworthy developer who once even claimed to have a MGA license which was a lie.
Pragmatic Play (originally TopGame, another highly questionable outfit in their day) seem to be OK nowadays but to me and others there has always been at least a faint whiff about them...

Thanks for that I will read that. I heard in the past that GameArt has been involved in some bollockery (I love the word but I don't know if we can use it in that form).

I still stand on the fact that I don't see the point to just automatically assume whatever situation arises = RTP PROVIDER CASINO CIA SCAM. It undermines the discussions in this forum by a huge amount. I guess this is more of a feedback and I'm digressing from the thread so that's that.
 

colinsunderland

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You seem to be well versed in the industry so I will not refute you or argue especially if you can't be arsed about it ;).

I just have a hard time to find hard evidence in MOST of these claims especially since it often comes from frustrated addicts who try to find any way possible to confirm their bias in automatically thinking I lost all my money so this is rigged or a scam and that by itself is annoying and something I see in this forum on a daily basis.
Pragmatic Play, under their old name, were caught cheating players.
When they changed their name, and retired some games, the money paid into the progressive jackpots disappeared.
Stake casino don't pay a lot of the time, there are numerous complaints all over about them.
The streamers who play there do ridiculous sized bets, win hundreds of thousands and their reaction is like mine if I got a 5x win on a slot. Most insist they play with their own money, but a few have stated, in public, they are funded by the casino.

Everything about that is shady.
Then you get this, which apparently was a legitimate win. It must be trillions and trillions to one to hit that exact sequence.

I think theres enough going on for people to question things being honest.
 

incrediblestuff

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You seem to be well versed in the industry so I will not refute you or argue especially if you can't be arsed about it ;).

I just have a hard time to find hard evidence in MOST of these claims especially since it often comes from frustrated addicts who try to find any way possible to confirm their bias in automatically thinking I lost all my money so this is rigged or a scam and that by itself is annoying and something I see in this forum on a daily basis.

Fair enough, that's definitely true in a lot of cases, but indeed being an ex-affiliate and long time player and software-reviewer/freelance writer on the subject, and thus having a few 'insiders' in my circle, i am confident enough to be beyond skeptical :)

Note that i am not saying anything is proven, but over the past two/three years i've read, heard and seen enough for my taste to be turned off.
I still watch some streamers i deem legit, but that's basically down to a handful (barely) and i can confirm they hate to play Pragmatic in general :D

Saying that in response to above interaction between you and dunover, who hit the nail on the head re: the old topgame, and whiffs of a certain nature...

It's the whole thing really - the sum of it's parts, if you will - that seems fishy. The expression 'Look! - you can tell when he's lying...his lips move when he does it' is kind of the feeling most of these blokes incur in me, and the fact that the bulk plays on very dodgy casinos, and for some reason all have tons of dosh, and play Pragmatic Play for like 90% of the time, and also started popping up very shortly after the launch of Pragmatic's 'freeplay' site, is just all too much coincedence in my book..

That is why the provider is included in my 'dodgy combo'.
Read up on Topgame's shady history, then perhaps Sherrif Gaming and/or Betsoft..

You'll probaly see why some of us older farts are a bit more skeptical in some cases. It used to be a cowboy world, and despite all the good developements over the past 10 years or so, there's always that little voice in the back of my head...

Also, most big scandals that were found out over the years, were a direct result of players questioning integrity and fairness.
Just saying :p

It is is tiresome sometimes to sift through the disgruntled gambler/addict-bollocks, but i'm afraid that's part of the game..
And i salute you for being skeptical, either way :thumbsup:
 

TamingTheBeast

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Fair enough, that's definitely true in a lot of cases, but indeed being an ex-affiliate and long time player and software-reviewer/freelance writer on the subject, and thus having a few 'insiders' in my circle, i am confident enough to be beyond skeptical :)

Note that i am not saying anything is proven, but over the past two/three years i've read, heard and seen enough for my taste to be turned off.
I still watch some streamers i deem legit, but that's basically down to a handful (barely) and i can confirm they hate to play Pragmatic in general :D

Saying that in response to above interaction between you and dunover, who hit the nail on the head re: the old topgame, and whiffs of a certain nature...

It's the whole thing really - the sum of it's parts, if you will - that seems fishy. The expression 'Look! - you can tell when he's lying...his lips move when he does it' is kind of the feeling most of these blokes incur in me, and the fact that the bulk plays on very dodgy casinos, and for some reason all have tons of dosh, and play Pragmatic Play for like 90% of the time, and also started popping up very shortly after the launch of Pragmatic's 'freeplay' site, is just all too much coincedence in my book..

That is why the provider is included in my 'dodgy combo'.
Read up on Topgame's shady history, then perhaps Sherrif Gaming and/or Betsoft..

You'll probaly see why some of us older farts are a bit more skeptical in some cases. It used to be a cowboy world, and despite all the good developements over the past 10 years or so, there's always that little voice in the back of my head...

Also, most big scandals that were found out over the years, were a direct result of players questioning integrity and fairness.
Just saying :p

It is is tiresome sometimes to sift through the disgruntled gambler/addict-bollocks, but i'm afraid that's part of the game..
And i salute you for being skeptical, either way :thumbsup:

I love this response, it becomes much clearer why and how justifiable this skepticism is. It makes a lot of sense obviously.

In my case I had some sessions that I swear that if I had streamed it people would instantly call me fake. Especially since I was playing on Stake and hit a lot of big wins on Pragmatic Play games in a short period of time 😄

As a young fart, I'm still navigating through what is legit not legit right wrong I'll get there one day :cheers:
 

Eliot85

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Instruction to have a sucsesfull casino whitdrawal and lifechaning money..

1.Move in to mummys house/garage
2.create acount on stake
3.Play pragmatic
 

09237653

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One thing that is odd abut this is that you'd think a scatter would drop in eventually. where are the scatters, cant only be three on these massive reel strips.
 

andym

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germany
Sorry guys but everyone here who only has a little experience in coding knows that this never ever can happen ‚by accident‚ or ‚by randomness‚.
i really have to wonder that there seems to be still some ppl here who believed these stories…

its just stupid to set the Game to Maxcap for the streamer - but dont tell the Software how it should reach the cap.
 

The Reel Story

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United Kingdom
So my take on this. I don't believe it was a rigged spin or 'set to maxcap' or whatever, and I do believe it was a legitimate win, however I believe it was an unintended legitimate win.

What I mean by that is, games (especially cluster games) have all sorts of weighting and logic that makes the distribution of the symbols more interesting and more likely to offer good balances of wins etc (all standard stuff). I believe what happened here is that those algorithms got into an incredibly rare situation where they put themselves in a loop of results. It's a legitimate win because it's what the game engine produced, but it's unintended because if the developer had realised such a scenario was possible within their logic, they certainly wouldn't have left it there.

This kind of stuff happens in code more often than you'd think, especially when multiple complicated systems are interacting with each other and it's simply impossible to know every single scenario that might occur.

So yeh, I would consider it a 'bug' in the code, but clearly Pragmatic considers it a legitimate win (but I bet their developers looked at it and went 'Jeeze, that's an oversight, how the hell did it get in that situation'.)
 

mack341

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south east england
So my take on this. I don't believe it was a rigged spin or 'set to maxcap' or whatever, and I do believe it was a legitimate win, however I believe it was an unintended legitimate win.

What I mean by that is, games (especially cluster games) have all sorts of weighting and logic that makes the distribution of the symbols more interesting and more likely to offer good balances of wins etc (all standard stuff). I believe what happened here is that those algorithms got into an incredibly rare situation where they put themselves in a loop of results. It's a legitimate win because it's what the game engine produced, but it's unintended because if the developer had realised such a scenario was possible within their logic, they certainly wouldn't have left it there.

This kind of stuff happens in code more often than you'd think, especially when multiple complicated systems are interacting with each other and it's simply impossible to know every single scenario that might occur.

So yeh, I would consider it a 'bug' in the code, but clearly Pragmatic considers it a legitimate win (but I bet their developers looked at it and went 'Jeeze, that's an oversight, how the hell did it get in that situation'.)
I can agree with this, even though my techie knowhow is limited I think I understand. But it is strangely coincidental that it happens for a streamer - if this is indeed the first time the developers learn of it, what the game can do in the 'wild' as it were.

For me there is an element of 'cui bono' regarding streamers faring well on pragmatic games all of a sudden, like it's part of a promotional drive. To a newbie watching this the reaction will be different to an old hand.
 

TamingTheBeast

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So yeh, I would consider it a 'bug' in the code, but clearly Pragmatic considers it a legitimate win (but I bet their developers looked at it and went 'Jeeze, that's an oversight, how the hell did it get in that situation'.)

As a programmer I agree with this. I also bet the devs went like "oh shit this was not supposed to happen"

But after all maybe andym the super programmer knows better
 
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