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How does Online Casino detect fraudulent?

Discussion in 'Casino Industry Discussion' started by fmungai, May 4, 2011.

    May 4, 2011
  1. fmungai

    fmungai Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Los angeles
    I personally see the Online Casino is the growing business as it is really convenience for player to sign up and play from their home. But as the number of player growing there are also a lot of fraudulent players who want to do whatever they can to make penny from Online Casino, of cause such as sign up multiple accounts to abuse Bonus, chargeback ...etc so I am wondering how does Online Casino detect fraudulent, what kind of sign and information that Online Casino looks at the first place to identify a fraud, and what would they do with that fraudulent account? Do Online Casino operators share each other their player information to find out suspicion accounts?

    Of cause there are a lot of rogue casinos out there, but my questions here are specific to only fraudulent player, so please advise and share if you have any inside information.
     
  2. May 4, 2011
  3. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Why do you ask?

    :rolleyes:
     
  4. May 4, 2011
  5. GamblersDen

    GamblersDen Dormant account webby

    Occupation:
    Webmaster, Internet Marketing
    Location:
    Cyprus
    Judging from the way your post is written it seems like you are interested in trying your luck at defrauding a casino to which I can only tell you that you will likely be wasting your time and effort. Online casinos have been around long enough to have a pretty good idea of how to assess fraudulent players - they often have entire departments to analyze each new sign up for potential fraudulent activity. Once detected, fraudsters are entered into a database shared by most if not all online casinos, so even if you do manage to cheat a casino, it likely won't be for more than a few hundred dollars/euros until they catch on, and you will be blacklisted from every future online casino.

    My advice to you is to invest your time into something more productive, and more honorable - karma will always come back and bite you in the ass.
     
  6. May 4, 2011
  7. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Hi, Max Drayman here. I manage Casinomeister's Pitch-A-Bitch complaints service.

    In my day-to-day work I deal with casinos regarding player issues, many of which concern fraud, either real or suspected. I can tell you that the ways and means casinos have for detecting fraud are many, very VERY many. I could write about this all day long and still only have scratched the surface.

    Let me put it this way -- as the others have before me -- if you're planning to cheat the casinos you're about to enter a world of pain and frustration: they make it their business to search out and destroy fraudsters. And they are generally pretty damn good at it too. Caveat Fraudster you might say.
     
  8. May 4, 2011
  9. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    In addition to the above, you should also bear in mind that many online casino operators also contract in specialised anti-fraud companies that add additional layers of vigilance - device reputational technology is just one example.
     
  10. May 4, 2011
  11. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    Yes I think they do - there's always been speculation about casino 'blacklists' but it would be crazy if they DIDN'T share info on known fraudsters.
     
  12. May 4, 2011
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    One method is reading various internet fora to see what is being discussed in the way of new strategies to defraud casinos. Although they only have usernames, and only see what is asked, answered, and discussed, in the public areas, it gives them an idea of what to look out for.

    Affiliates who run many of the fora are often made to contribute to the cost of fraudulent players, usually by having commission payments based on fraudulent activity deducted from their accounts. This gives the webmasters an incentive to discourage fraudulent play from players joining through their links.

    A fraud blacklist is entirely different to a blacklist of "skilled players". Under data protection laws, it IS permissible to share information when it relates to fraud, as it is deemed "sharing information to help detect and prevent crime".

    The blacklists that are often suspected to exist are those of players who win more than the average, and most operators deny they operate these.

    Blacklists of players that commit fraud DO exist, but tend to be held by the processors, rather than the casinos themselves.

    It seems that almost all fraudulent players get caught, and the systems used can be so thorough that the biggest problem is innocent players being wrongly accused of fraud, which is why the average player DETESTS those who defraud casinos, and there is little sympathy shown for a fraudster who finally got caught.

    This is probably the worst place to ask for information on how to defraud a casino, beaten only by phoning up their CS and asking how they can slip a fraud past management:rolleyes:

    Simply by virtue of your opening post, you have prejudiced your position in any later case you have with a casino who says you are a fraudster.
     
  14. May 4, 2011
  15. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    You have chargebacking fraud - and then you have multiple accounts fraud.

    Charge backing is pretty easy to detect since once you charge back, you are put on a global blacklist that most companies subscribe to. Charge back once, and that pretty much guarantees you being locked out of most player accounts.

    Multiple account fraud is much more complex, but is pretty easy to detect since most fraudsters aren't too bright. Unfortunately (for this discussion), the ways that most casinos detect player fraud are closely guarded secrets.

    Forged utility bills, IDs and other docs are easy to detect once one starts looking deeper thanks to Google and websites like Facebook. There is a lot of public information on the web that casinos can freely access to figure out who you are. :p
     
    2 people like this.
  16. May 4, 2011
  17. ksech

    ksech Dormant account

    Occupation:
    yes
    Location:
    Here
    First post and you want information on how to defraud a casino? Personally, I don't see you having a long "life expectancy" here...

    As the others before have stated, you have pretty much condemned yourself IF you ever find yourself in the situation of a casino claiming you are a fraudlant player.
     
  18. May 4, 2011
  19. ilovejesus

    ilovejesus Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    goldsmith
    Location:
    GREAT BRITAIN
    hi

    its not worh it friend
     
  20. May 4, 2011
  21. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    You have a better chance to rob a bank than to defraud a casino.
    Or plan to rob a land based casino.
    But all in all you will never get away with it.
    Did you know Foxwoods & the Mohegan Sun casino here in Ct don't use armored cars.They use your everyday vehicles to transport because you can't tell.
    This is smart for them because they will never have some sort of heist.
    ~T~
     
  22. May 4, 2011
  23. Repro

    Repro Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Financial
    Location:
    Netherlands
    lol... not a very standard first post :p

    If you stay with the trusted/accredited casino's you shouldn't worry about fraudsters. It's the casino's job to identify and eliminate them.

    If you plan on becoming one... well... good luck, because you will be blacklisted everywhere !
     
  24. May 4, 2011
  25. Pulver

    Pulver Senior Member PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Tellus
    If it was easy to defraud a casino, every crook out there would be doing it and the casino's would soon be out of business. The casino's are still in business and since their lives depend on beeing good at detecting fraudsters, you can bet on them being good at it..

    So, if you where planning on doing some monkey business, don't do it. :thumbsup:
     
  26. May 4, 2011
  27. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    And always remember....
    If you steal BIG make sure it's BIG.
    Don't go for small change.
    Because your jail time will be the same.
    Make sure to wear your T-shirt :lolup:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  28. May 4, 2011
  29. ilovejesus

    ilovejesus Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    goldsmith
    Location:
    GREAT BRITAIN
    hi

    now u got ur info go and try it. then you will find out how they detect fraudsters. please let u know on your next post about your mission
     
  30. May 4, 2011
  31. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    I know of one who is quite succesful in MAing. He has had much more winnings confiscated for other reasons. He is basically never "caught".
    He is not the only one and surely there are many equally and more succesful. And if they are caught because of multiple accounts they usually just take the hit (at least the pros).

    Its not "that" profitable if you dont run a big accountfarm plus I doubt any normal player would have the knowledge or resources for succesful MAing. Maybe 3-4 accounts with a high risk of getting caught. Takes a lot of time too which should be counted in.

    An advantage player with a big bankroll (ready to lose 5 figs in a day) and good information makes much more than someone running a few extra accounts.

    Not that I condone such behaviour (MA) but the casinos can only blame themself.
     
  32. May 4, 2011
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    What about someone with a large bankroll AND who is very good at getting away with multiaccounting.

    Your example STILL kept on getting their winnings confiscated, so he was hardly "never caught". If a casino had several reasons to confiscate winnings, they are going to use the one they have the best evidence for, and not even mention the others.

    The casinos best at detecting fraud are the ones still in business, and the ones who kept on getting taken by the fraudsters are no longer with us. It is survival of the fittest, and as the industry matures, it gets better at stopping fraud.
     
  34. May 4, 2011
  35. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    Well you have to have a big roll if you want to operate a bunch of gnome accounts.

    Hes no fool, he has done it for years and years. Remember that to be really succesful you must turn to the dark side, AKA play at known rogue casinos or otherwise shady operations. There are legit players who have had 6 figure amounts in total confiscated over the years.
    Many here doesnt understand how risky even legit advantage play is. The casino in the end always can simply decide not to pay for whatever reason they see fit.

    He has cleaned many known bookiecasinos several times and they usually have the best security teams.

    And it isnt easy, while Im not that interested in all the details I have seen the setup and roughly knows how timeconsuming it is.
    Plus he doesnt do it that much anymore, thats more to do that Finland is bonusbanned or have increased WR at so many places.

    In the end its about calculating the possible risk involved and weigh it against the expected gain.

    Edit: BTW one that wasnt mentioned is stuff involving affiliates altough I would think its fairly easy to detect. Revshare and its possibilities...
     
  36. May 4, 2011
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Maybe HE is the reason why so many players from Finland can't get a fair deal. Perhaps they should all get together and hunt him down, turn him over to the casinos, and in return get Finland off the blacklist.

    Whether it is worth doing depends on the earnings per hour, not whether the work is easy. Many will work hard for the minimum wage, so if his hard work is rewarded by large sums in proceeds, he at least gets to enjoy his time off.

    If he is THAT clever, he would simply move from Finland, and start over, or set up an operation that made it APPEAR that he was someone completely different.

    I expect a casino would be very interested in the details, as even if he no longer does it, knowing how they were fooled would help them in the future.
     
  38. May 4, 2011
  39. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    He hasnt probably made any real dents in the casinos pockets. Probably not even a million during all the years. Succesful in that sense he hardly gets caught. There are APs who have made more. Finns also has the problems with getting the money without having to pay tax if its outside EEA, not a true problem as the single sums arent that high.

    Most Finns that used MAing back in the years usually werent that advanced and couldnt keep up with the casinos.

    Even with multiaccounting there isnt that much to be made nowadays if you dont want to do it around the clock and there are other time related "issues". The hourly pay isnt probably that high and most pros are quite indifferent to gambling. The difference to legit high level advantage play isnt probably big annually (can be less aswell) and in hourly the latter beats the former by a clear margin. Thats at least what I have heard and read, so its certainly not the whole picture just a small part of it.

    The most succesful ones are probably those who have "farms" and do little "work" themself.

    Note that I only know of one personally and never really was interested so speaking of own experience and knowledge.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2011

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