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New Slot Announcement Here it is! BTG's Holy Diver slot!

bit of a clone of Gem Saviour by PGSoft (
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
) so have my reservations, but expect a lot stronger mathematical execution from BTG and will definitely give this a spin! Great to see BTG doing something new.
 
I have to say, this looks like a fun game for a change.
The Free Spin feature is really fun to watch and yes I am excited to try this.
That would be a 2nd good slot from BTG besides DHV.

Thanks for the video Dunover. :thumbsup:
 
I am loathed to play games that ‘rope you in’ so to speak. I know you can walk away but people will get involved and go for level 3 believing there is a pot of gold waiting at the end. The problem is there’s no guarantees or insurance to cover you. I can imagine the posts now when someone gets there only to hit x100 or similar. I actually see this as being as unethical as feature buys it’s just dressed up a bit different. Only my opinion.
 
Yep, that's how I see it too. We're supposed to be doing cartwheels because there's no Gamble Wheel but getting the higher 'level' of free spins still has to be risked, and can be lost just as easily, leaving people chasing that illustrious prize (that isn't there):rolleyes:
 
Was thinking it looks a nice slot. But like every other BTG slot it probably promises everything but in reality delivers little.

Take Bonanza . 22 free spins. Up to 4x multiplier after first spin. Ends up on a 6x multiplier and pays 10x bet. Do not think i will chase the 3rd level of free spins on this new slot.
 
dunover said:
I said in the video there's no going back once forfeiting the previous bonus level! I also said you cannot change stake either or else you return to no gems on your shield and the poor Knight has to start his trail all over...:D
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Must have not picked up on the going back bit. Did pick up on the change stake element which I totally agree with.
 
snorky510238 said:
I am loathed to play games that ‘rope you in’ so to speak. I know you can walk away but people will get involved and go for level 3 believing there is a pot of gold waiting at the end. The problem is there’s no guarantees or insurance to cover you. I can imagine the posts now when someone gets there only to hit x100 or similar. I actually see this as being as unethical as feature buys it’s just dressed up a bit different. Only my opinion.
Click to expand...

I played it extensively in fun mode and must say it is around 50:50 as to what level one should take take. Level 3 has the potential but will often disappoint. Funny, that I saw exactly in the Level 3 rounds far less gems on reels 2 to 5 than on Level 1. :rolleyes:

- I had overall the best results by taking level 2 (23 rounds) - 78x bet on average, only 2 rounds were below 50x bet.
- Level 1 (17 rounds) was 60% disappointing with 10 - 50x bet, 35% atrocious with less than 10xbet, and roughly 5% went past 50x bet.
- Level 3 (12 rounds) gave me the biggest win at over 300x bet but also disappointed rather often with less than 50x bet. Lowest was a mere 8x bet :oops:

Yet to hit a retrigger though, so those 500K+ ways to win are maybe just a fantasy like the 50FS on WWTBAM. :rolleyes:

It is fun to play, as I also had a few big hits in the base game with the sword multipliers. So you don't always need the FS round to make a good profit.

However, I just don't welcome this accumulator slots as they encourage the player to invest more and many will go beyond their means just because they have one gem missing to Level 3. I waited sometimes over 200 spins to have the right gem popping up, so it can be quite a balance drainer when you start chasing.
 
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Game looks neat, but sadly its going to be a coat & daggers i hope it wont but its BTG & we all know they like slots to be chased which cost & then a quarter pot of gold ic your lucky, lets face it its not going to make any difference what level it is, because trance said it cannot be compensated so itz all bull.
 
I am beginning to think more and more that the amount of spins is just for show and bonus amounts are predetermined. I played Chilli the other day and decided to gamble the spins. It was on a going day anyway with decent base hits and bonuses nicely spaced out. The first 8 I gambled and took 16 paid x100 . Second I took 20 paid x30. Thinking my luck will run out (gambling the spins) the third time I took the 8, hit a 4 scatter rettriger and paid x400. After a good run the buy had come down so I bought the last took 8 and paid x125. I know this is a tiny sample and I caught it on a generous day but from what I have seen there is no categorical evidence that proves more spins equals the bigger wins. Yes of course it does in theory but isn’t that what this is all about. Providers getting us to play slots based on potential and theory. It just happens that Btg have found a better formula/smokescreen that isn’t as easy to see through as some of the oppositions efforts.
 
snorky510238 said:
I am beginning to think more and more that the amount of spins is just for show and bonus amounts are predetermined. I played Chilli the other day and decided to gamble the spins. It was on a going day anyway with decent base hits and bonuses nicely spaced out. The first 8 I gambled and took 16 paid x100 . Second I took 20 paid x30. Thinking my luck will run out (gambling the spins) the third time I took the 8, hit a 4 scatter rettriger and paid x400. After a good run the buy had come down so I bought the last took 8 and paid x125. I know this is a tiny sample and I caught it on a generous day but from what I have seen there is no categorical evidence that proves more spins equals the bigger wins. Yes of course it does in theory but isn’t that what this is all about. Providers getting us to play slots based on potential and theory. It just happens that Btg have found a better formula/smokescreen that isn’t as easy to see through as some of the oppositions efforts.
Click to expand...

Said it before many times. All my biggest wins on chilli have been on 8 spins. If it is going to pay it retriggers or gives several quick wins to build multiplier. Take 20 spins and most of the time its dead spins galore. Seldom waste my time gambling spins now.
 
paul7388 said:
Said it before many times. All my biggest wins on chilli have been on 8 spins. If it is going to pay it retriggers or gives several quick wins to build multiplier. Take 20 spins and most of the time its dead spins galore. Seldom waste my time gambling spins now.
Click to expand...

Same here, just over 500x bet with 8 spins. Got to a 12x multiplier within those eight spins. :o
 
Harry_BKK said:
I played it extensively in fun mode and must say it is around 50:50 as to what level one should take take. Level 3 has the potential but will often disappoint. Funny, that I saw exactly in the Level 3 rounds far less gems on reels 2 to 5 than on Level 1. :rolleyes:

- I had overall the best results by taking level 2 (23 rounds) - 78x bet on average, only 2 rounds were below 50x bet.
- Level 1 (17 rounds) was 60% disappointing with 10 - 50x bet, 35% atrocious with less than 10xbet, and roughly 5% went past 50x bet.
- Level 3 (12 rounds) gave me the biggest win at over 300x bet but also disappointed rather often with less than 50x bet. Lowest was a mere 8x bet :oops:

Yet to hit a retrigger though, so those 500K+ ways to win are maybe just a fantasy like the 50FS on WWTBAM. :rolleyes:

It is fun to play, as I also had a few big hits in the base game with the sword multipliers. So you don't always need the FS round to make a good profit.

However, I just don't welcome this accumulator slots as they encourage the player to invest more and many will go beyond their means just because they have one gem missing to Level 3. I waited sometimes over 200 spins to have the right gem popping up, so it can be quite a balance drainer when you start chasing.
Click to expand...
Well your results were very different to mine! I have hit >100x bet on Level one twice and never less than 20x. Level 2 highest was 78x and lowest 45x (I only took it twice in my latest run) and Level 3 I had a bad 17x, a medium 80x and a very good 232x. As you say the base game can drop some huge hits out of the blue, in fact that gave me my best ever hit of 517.6x!
Yes, I noticed less gems in the Level 3 spins but it's patently the highest-volatility round and made this way quite deliberately. A player will be able to decide on their bankroll whether it's wise to continue to a higher level, it's their choice. A player can choose to play the lowest-volatility option and simply always take Level 1.
If you've turned down Level 1 or 2 you also have a greater chance of huge base game hits when the Chest reveals a gem, as this will then appear on the grid at that time as either a 2x or 3x wild for that spin.
No game will appeal to everybody but at least you can choose different volatility if you're cynical about those 'pie in the sky' wins as people have been, regarding Bonanza.
I still think it's a very good game and very clever too, IMO the best since the beast of Bonanza appeared....
 
Had this been BTG's first release after Bonanza I'd probably be more interested, but with some Turkey's after it, not so much....personally I'd be disappointed with a 232 on Vikings :p. Dunover's right in respect of at least they're trying new things compared to others but, as we know from Thunderkicks portfolio, new/innovative doesn't always mean good ;)

I'll still lob Bonanza the odd 20 though.
 
dunover said:
Well your results were very different to mine! I have hit >100x bet on Level one twice and never less than 20x. Level 2 highest was 78x and lowest 45x (I only took it twice in my latest run) and Level 3 I had a bad 17x, a medium 80x and a very good 232x. As you say the base game can drop some huge hits out of the blue, in fact that gave me my best ever hit of 517.6x!
Yes, I noticed less gems in the Level 3 spins but it's patently the highest-volatility round and made this way quite deliberately. A player will be able to decide on their bankroll whether it's wise to continue to a higher level, it's their choice. A player can choose to play the lowest-volatility option and simply always take Level 1.
If you've turned down Level 1 or 2 you also have a greater chance of huge base game hits when the Chest reveals a gem, as this will then appear on the grid at that time as either a 2x or 3x wild for that spin.
No game will appeal to everybody but at least you can choose different volatility if you're cynical about those 'pie in the sky' wins as people have been, regarding Bonanza.
I still think it's a very good game and very clever too, IMO the best since the beast of Bonanza appeared....
Click to expand...

Here's the problem dunover , from a players point of view lets just a say i reject the first stages of upto as per your average 20x -100x bet

i then reject second stage of 40 -100x

Moving into third stage the best stage or should be a doubt very much that its going to cough up at least 200x bet onwards, because everytime i shall reject i would be losing those funds, which a player may think is going to be added back at third stage.

Clearly this would not be allowed at all online going what we have been told , so point me too what is the point ??? i can play a extra 1500 odd spins to trigger third stage but can deliver a shite result ??? you point out these chests but in play terms these chests shouldn't be any different at all ??

Im just not buying the bullshit any longer , like you said it's down to the player)

all i see its people pushing for third stage a t heavier cost but nothing to back up third stage coughing up far more in terms of X bet wins back.
 
snorky510238 said:
I am beginning to think more and more that the amount of spins is just for show and bonus amounts are predetermined. I played Chilli the other day and decided to gamble the spins. It was on a going day anyway with decent base hits and bonuses nicely spaced out. The first 8 I gambled and took 16 paid x100 . Second I took 20 paid x30. Thinking my luck will run out (gambling the spins) the third time I took the 8, hit a 4 scatter rettriger and paid x400. After a good run the buy had come down so I bought the last took 8 and paid x125. I know this is a tiny sample and I caught it on a generous day but from what I have seen there is no categorical evidence that proves more spins equals the bigger wins. Yes of course it does in theory but isn’t that what this is all about. Providers getting us to play slots based on potential and theory. It just happens that Btg have found a better formula/smokescreen that isn’t as easy to see through as some of the oppositions efforts.
Click to expand...

They aren't predetermined (except games like Jammin Jars where the sequence is from a pre-selected pool)... it makes no sense and would be totally illegal on games like Holy Diver and Extra Chilli etc...
 
trancemonkey said:
They aren't predetermined (except games like Jammin Jars where the sequence is from a pre-selected pool)... it makes no sense and would be totally illegal on games like Holy Diver and Extra Chilli etc...
Click to expand...

I do not get what you mean by it would be illegal if the bonus was predetermined.

What is the difference from a free spins round once it starts on a game like extra chilli and say jinglebells since it is christmas from RedTiger. Both are free spin rounds and i can guarantee every Red tiger free spin bonus including ones that retrigger free spins are predetermined.

Soon as you trigger free spins the amount you have won is already decided. So how would that not be illegal as well then.
 
aceking123 said:
Here's the problem dunover , from a players point of view lets just a say i reject the first stages of upto as per your average 20x -100x bet

i then reject second stage of 40 -100x

Moving into third stage the best stage or should be a doubt very much that its going to cough up at least 200x bet onwards, because everytime i shall reject i would be losing those funds, which a player may think is going to be added back at third stage.

Clearly this would not be allowed at all online going what we have been told , so point me too what is the point ??? i can play a extra 1500 odd spins to trigger third stage but can deliver a shite result ??? you point out these chests but in play terms these chests shouldn't be any different at all ??

Im just not buying the bullshit any longer , like you said it's down to the player)

all i see its people pushing for third stage a t heavier cost but nothing to back up third stage coughing up far more in terms of X bet wins back.
Click to expand...

No, that's not how I'd would look at it.

Firstly, you are RISKING a lower-potential bonus round and trying to go for one later that offers a bigger range of outcomes due to the numerous 3x multiplier that can co-exist on the grid in FS. Let's look at games like Wishing You Fortune where you can select a high number of FS with low wild multipliers or a few spins with very high Wild multipliers. The mechanic is slightly different admittedly, but in effect you are doing the same by choosing a different range of potential outcomes which MAY pay you a very high total - or not.
The second point is that when you reveal crystals in the chests further along the trail after turning down level 1 or especially level 2, these can often produce big base game wins you are far less likely to see on level 1's trail because the Chest crystals offer multipliers at that stage.

The game only has a 0.15% RTP range whichever strategy you play so you're not going to be fleeced due to the way you choose to play.
 
paul7388 said:
I do not get what you mean by it would be illegal if the bonus was predetermined.

What is the difference from a free spins round once it starts on a game like extra chilli and say jinglebells since it is christmas from RedTiger. Both are free spin rounds and i can guarantee every Red tiger free spin bonus including ones that retrigger free spins are predetermined.

Soon as you trigger free spins the amount you have won is already decided. So how would that not be illegal as well then.
Click to expand...
that doesnt mean its been pre determined necessarily, but rather than each individual result being pulled from the pool one subsequently after the other, the entire 'bundle' has been pulled, hence the display before playing out being able to have tallied the amount
I may be wrong so ya, trance is the man
 
dionysus said:
that doesnt mean its been pre determined necessarily, but rather than each individual result being pulled from the pool one subsequently after the other, the entire 'bundle' has been pulled, hence the display before playing out being able to have tallied the amount
I may be wrong so ya, trance is the man
Click to expand...

Yeah i know. But that would work the same way in chilli. Once you collect 8 spins you could get entire result pulled same as in other games. Yet trance is saying each spin has to be seperate or it would be illegal. It is perfectly legal in any other game so do not get why it wold be illegal in this game.
 
paul7388 said:
Yeah i know. But that would work the same way in chilli. Once you collect 8 spins you could get entire result pulled same as in other games. Yet trance is saying each spin has to be seperate or it would be illegal. It is perfectly legal in any other game so do not get why it wold be illegal in this game.
Click to expand...
it can still be separate and bundled....ie grabbing 8 random spins from the pool...each result is pulled individually, then as a bundle, the result is then sent as a package, so the result can be tallied
 
I still can’t be persuaded. Take games like Jungle spirit. You choose the animal and it states. Tigers high variance to snakes low variance. Over time I have chosen all of them many times yet never had more than one big hit in any given bonus round. If it was picking every spin individually surely this would have happened on a few occasions. It seems much more likely the amount is predetermined and the graphics adjust to pay the preselected amount.
 
snorky510238 said:
I still can’t be persuaded. Take games like Jungle spirit. You choose the animal and it states. Tigers high variance to snakes low variance. Over time I have chosen all of them many times yet never had more than one big hit in any given bonus round. If it was picking every spin individually surely this would have happened on a few occasions. It seems much more likely the amount is predetermined and the graphics adjust to pay the preselected amount.
Click to expand...

I would say the same. Once you pick whatever feature you want it then randomly allocates what the spins will pay. After that its all just eye candy. And i would say games like chilli and Bonanza do the exact same. So many providers do it. Take Red tiger. Soon as you get free spins just close game and go back. You can't even play the spins it just tells you what you won. Do not see why BTG should be any different.
 
Server result = 100x win from a single spin

Whether this is displayed as
  • A base game win
  • the 8 free spins
  • the 12 free spins
  • etc
is irrelevant, just eye candy, pre determined and random and still fair and above board IMO.

Gets a bit more hazy with the addition of the feature gamble but 99.99% confident this is how most, if not all modern slots work.
 
Jono777 said:
Server result = 100x win from a single spin

Whether this is displayed as
  • A base game win
  • the 8 free spins
  • the 12 free spins
  • etc
is irrelevant, just eye candy, pre determined and random and still fair and above board IMO.

Gets a bit more hazy with the addition of the feature gamble but 99.99% confident this is how most, if not all modern slots work.
Click to expand...

Of course it isn't... But you're 99.99% confident that I'm a liar. My job is a lie. My knowledge is a lie. Lie.
 
paul7388 said:
I would say the same. Once you pick whatever feature you want it then randomly allocates what the spins will pay. After that its all just eye candy. And i would say games like chilli and Bonanza do the exact same. So many providers do it. Take Red tiger. Soon as you get free spins just close game and go back. You can't even play the spins it just tells you what you won. Do not see why BTG should be any different.
Click to expand...

Many providers play the spins on the server if you disconnect and show the result. Doesn't mean it was predetermined.. It was played out after your disconnection. Quite simple really.
 
snorky510238 said:
I still can’t be persuaded. Take games like Jungle spirit. You choose the animal and it states. Tigers high variance to snakes low variance. Over time I have chosen all of them many times yet never had more than one big hit in any given bonus round. If it was picking every spin individually surely this would have happened on a few occasions. It seems much more likely the amount is predetermined and the graphics adjust to pay the preselected amount.
Click to expand...

Each other the animals will still average the same amount over time. The tigers will average the same as the crocodiles.. It's just how it delivers the wins that is different. Doesn't mean each one can't pay big... just means each one is more volatile.

You should come to the Meister Meet in Feb... I'll happily explain it all to you there.
 
paul7388 said:
Yeah i know. But that would work the same way in chilli. Once you collect 8 spins you could get entire result pulled same as in other games. Yet trance is saying each spin has to be seperate or it would be illegal. It is perfectly legal in any other game so do not get why it wold be illegal in this game.
Click to expand...

And the award for missing the point entirely goes to... ;)

Might be my fault to be fair BUT the difference is in the detail.

On Jammin Jars, we know the sequences are pre-scripted but they are still pulled randomly in each game. This is because it is super complex and there was very little possibility to do it any other way.

However, on Extra Chilli the game has no idea if you will gamble or not. You COULD gamble and lose... So say You are right and it was going to pay you 100x... what happens to that? Compensation is illegal (I've posted a link to the regulations in other threads but it's easy to find in the Remote Technical Standards) so where does that money go?
 
Last edited:
trancemonkey said:
Of course it isn't... But you're 99.99% confident that I'm a liar. My job is a lie. My knowledge is a lie. Lie.
Click to expand...

OMG, its my personal opinion, not an attack, not an accusation, nothing more than a single players, time served feeling that's it!

Thought you knew me better than this by now, Slots can still be fair, random, legal, etc, blah, blah, etc with or without pre-scripted sequences.

I never used the word 'Lie, Liar' or similar once and FWIW, I didn't even come close to thinking it either, EVER! :)
 
trancemonkey said:
And the award for missing the point entirely goes to...

Might be my fault to be fair BUT the difference is in the detail.

On Jammin Jars, we know the sequences are pre-scripted but they are still pulled randomly in each game. This is because it is super complex and there was very little possibility to do it any other way.

However, on Extra Chilli the game has no idea if you will gamble or not. You COULD gamble and lose... So say You are right and it was going to pay you 100x... what happens to that? Compensation is illegal (I've posted a link to the regulations in other threads but it's easy to find in the Remote Technical Standards) so where does that money go?
Click to expand...

Well it can't be an award for me missing the point so guess you must have awarded yourself it as you missed what i said completely. I said after the gamble and once amount of spins was known. So no idea why you went into the rest.

But i will leave it at that
 
trancemonkey said:
Of course it isn't... But you're 99.99% confident that I'm a liar. My job is a lie. My knowledge is a lie. Lie.
Click to expand...
Jono is a decent guy, he won't of meant anything in a bad way mate.
In other news trance I'd give up trying to defend facts, it's like the crazy Sandy hook or 9/11 truthers .No matter what genuine facts they get they go against it, there is a psychological reason and word for this denial but it escapes me at the moment. All the best guys
 
trancemonkey said:
Many providers play the spins on the server if you disconnect and show the result. Doesn't mean it was predetermined.. It was played out after your disconnection. Quite simple really.
Click to expand...

Okay how can it be played out without you playing it unless result was predetermined. Many of the slots give retriggers where you choose an item that awards different amounts of free spins. Now if i exit the slot every time i get free spins i will never get to choose what box to pick in free spins. So like i said the end result must be predetermined.
 
Jono777 said:
OMG, its my personal opinion, not an attack, not an accusation, nothing more than a single players, time served feeling that's it!

Thought you knew me better than this by now, Slots can still be fair, random, legal, etc, blah, blah, etc with or without pre-scripted sequences.

I never used the word 'Lie, Liar' or similar once and FWIW, I didn't even come close to thinking it either, EVER! :)
Click to expand...

But Jono... if you're 99.99% confident in what you said, then you have to believe I'm lying to you :(
..
 
paul7388 said:
Okay how can it be played out without you playing it unless result was predetermined. Many of the slots give retriggers where you choose an item that awards different amounts of free spins. Now if i exit the slot every time i get free spins i will never get to choose what box to pick in free spins. So like i said the end result must be predetermined.
Click to expand...

Some providers determine the outcome of all the free games at the point they are won...yes. But what it HASN'T done is say "pay 100x and find a way to award it"...You do realise that this method is far more complex than actually designing decent maths right?

Or do you think we just choose to go for the more complex cheaty method just because we like spending money and time doing things we don't need to do?
 
Seriously last post on anything to do with this. But i respected you for what you did and answering questions. Unlike many i do not think slots are rigged and i believe they are fair. But sorry some of your replies to people that disagree with you and ask questions are out of line.

trancemonkey said:
And the award for missing the point entirely goes to...
Click to expand...

To me that was a snide and uncalled for response. If you wish to answer people in a condescending manner so be it i won't waste my time replying have a nice day:thumbsup:
 
paul7388 said:
Seriously last post on anything to do with this. But i respected you for what you did and answering questions. Unlike many i do not think slots are rigged and i believe they are fair. But sorry some of your replies to people that disagree with you and ask questions are out of line.



To me that was a snide and uncalled for response. If you wish to answer people in a condescending manner so be it i won't waste my time replying have a nice day:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I think you missed the next line where I said it might be my fault.. I was joking, not being an arse. Apologies if that didn't come across in the light hearted way it was intended :(
 
trancemonkey said:
Some providers determine the outcome of all the free games at the point they are won...yes. But what it HASN'T done is say "pay 100x and find a way to award it"...You do realise that this method is far more complex than actually designing decent maths right?

Or do you think we just choose to go for the more complex cheaty method just because we like spending money and time doing things we don't need to do?
Click to expand...

Again i have never mentioned once anything to do with 100x. I have never said anything was simple. I merely stated that i believe that once the spins are rewarded the result is determined on some slots. And you just agreed yet you are trying to make me out to be some sort of idiot. Seriously read my posts and think what i said. Final word on this i am done
 
Anyway... before I say something else that gets me into trouble accidentally, if anyone DOES want to chat at the Meister Meet aboit anything to do with slots or tin foil theories or to tell me I'm an arse, please come and say hi :)
 
paul7388 said:
I would say the same. Once you pick whatever feature you want it then randomly allocates what the spins will pay. After that its all just eye candy. And i would say games like chilli and Bonanza do the exact same. So many providers do it. Take Red tiger. Soon as you get free spins just close game and go back. You can't even play the spins it just tells you what you won. Do not see why BTG should be any different.
Click to expand...

This is what you said... You said it randomly allocates the spins that pay. But that simply isn't what it will be doing. This is why I replied the way I did because I thought You meant it was picking a total an paying it.

You did also state the "end result must be predetermined" but that's also not necessarily true.

The thing is, all these suggestions of what goes on... they are mostly far more complex than what actually happens.
 

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