- Joined
- Feb 8, 2007
- Location
- US of A
Last edited:
Had to close bank account
- Thread starter babs7262
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2007
- Location
- There
Have to admit...
When I read the first post it freaked me out...a bit misleading I must say....
When I read the first post it freaked me out...a bit misleading I must say....
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
- Location
- Ontario
Well, if it was not for the gambling laws in the US, her bank would not reversed anything other than the transactions she chargebacked, not all the transactions to the processor.
And if it was not for the restrictions on online gambling, the fees would not have ballooned in this way.
No doubt, Babs owes money back. I don't think she is denying that. But I would hope that a reasonable repayment schedule could be achieved by the parties involved to cover the fees that just escalated.
If it was here in Canada where I live, I could go after my bank for the additional fees, beyond the chargebacks I had asked for. Perhaps Inetbet should try to recover some of them from her bank, since apparently some of the chargebacks were initiated by the bank?
Oh, maybe not, since all parties were involved in an illegal activity?
This thread definitely belongs in AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL.
And if it was not for the restrictions on online gambling, the fees would not have ballooned in this way.
No doubt, Babs owes money back. I don't think she is denying that. But I would hope that a reasonable repayment schedule could be achieved by the parties involved to cover the fees that just escalated.
If it was here in Canada where I live, I could go after my bank for the additional fees, beyond the chargebacks I had asked for. Perhaps Inetbet should try to recover some of them from her bank, since apparently some of the chargebacks were initiated by the bank?
Oh, maybe not, since all parties were involved in an illegal activity?
This thread definitely belongs in AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Location
- FL
Babs didn't even have the balls to stay around and take her licks now did she or is she reading all this in invisable
you all seem to forget that Babs an "Rich" started this not the "Bank"
so I did a chargeback on just the UNAUTHORIZED ones. The thing I didnt know , which is why everything is messed up and I feel bad about is this: Once you do a chargeback, even if just on one unauthorized charge, my bank went and reversed ALL deposits (dribbles and drabbles) at a time for the same processor.
She also said that her husband was upset about this and charged back the deposits and closed the card.Funds that you gambled (and apparently lost).
Like I said, I did just a few of them that I noticed in October (months ago). The casino didnt contact me at all or dispute it so I thought they saw the mistake and that was it. Then...all of these other charges were reversed without me knowing it.
Huh? You closed your casino account and stopped answering your emails. They decided to contact you via PM after seeing your activity here. Why didn't you tell them what was up via a PM?
Cindy
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2004
- Location
- SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Maybe we should not let our tempers flare. Babs should now seek to establish a dialogue with Inet and the first thing she should do is to send copies of the statement showing the overcharges to Inet as this was what caused her to initiate chargebacks in the first place. Mind you, if the amount overcharged was measly, she will need to explain why she took this course of action.
Inet also needs to show Babs the breakdown of the costs that should be recovered from her. If both parties are willing to show the statements/breakdown here (with personal details covered of course) we can decide for ourselves as to what is going on. Please do not be too bitter or antagonistic towards each other fellow members.
Inet also needs to show Babs the breakdown of the costs that should be recovered from her. If both parties are willing to show the statements/breakdown here (with personal details covered of course) we can decide for ourselves as to what is going on. Please do not be too bitter or antagonistic towards each other fellow members.
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2004
- Location
- SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
May I add that there is no reason why Babs shouldnt immediately pay the chargeback amount to Inet. There is no point in discussing this anymore if this act is not done.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Well - going over this once again, I've seen Babs' emails to the casino, and it is pretty clear that she did this with the full knowledge of what she did - in fact, she was rather indignant about it - saying more or less it was just tough for them.
She has been gambling online long enough to know that the procedure she undertook was wrong. The whole mess could have been avoided if she had contacted the casino and asked about the incorrect charges she was quoting. Again, she never contacted them about this and she never produced a bank statement to the casino to show what these charges were.
What a shame, and her account here has been closed. If she works this out between iNetBet and herself, that would be great, but rules are the rules.
You don't make chargebacks.
She has been gambling online long enough to know that the procedure she undertook was wrong. The whole mess could have been avoided if she had contacted the casino and asked about the incorrect charges she was quoting. Again, she never contacted them about this and she never produced a bank statement to the casino to show what these charges were.
What a shame, and her account here has been closed. If she works this out between iNetBet and herself, that would be great, but rules are the rules.
You don't make chargebacks.
- Joined
- May 9, 2004
- Location
- US
After reading the above post from Bryan I had to go back and re-read Bab's first post. All I can say is how deceptive that first post was. It's obvious she knew she was going to be outed as a thief. And yes someone that does charge backs in the manner it was done to Inet is a thief. I support Bryan in the banning of Babs, this forum doesn't need members that steal from reputable casinos or any casinos for that matter.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
Well, alot seems to have happened over this!!
I always write down each deposit and withdrawal on a piece of paper, then I transfer a running total to a spreadsheet, and check online that the numbers add up (debits from Neteller & my card). I check in each withdrawal as received, and know pretty soon if I am subject to an unwarranted delay.
If I have any doubt about a set of deposits not tallying, I take copies of the records and keep them till I have made the figures balance. This happened a couple of times with card transactions taking weeks to appear on my card, it was hard to match them back to the deposits, but in the end I did.
In this sorry situation, even if it seemed the casino wasn't helping, a PAB should have been the next step since Inet AND ClubWorld are both accredited. Disputing charges with a bank, especially if you are in the US, only serves to highlight your gambling activity, not a good idea.
At first, I believed Babs was caught up by the bank playing nursemaid due to UIGEA, but it seems that Babs had a tendency to use the chargeback as a weapon of FIRST resort in resolving a dispute - this will always destroy a player's reputation with casinos.
I very much doubt that Inet would take a continuing risk with Babs, given that her deposits are small & many, and fees should this ever be repeated will be out of proportion. Merely from a business point of view, this risk would be too high. I have been of the impression that players who make chargebacks get banned from online casinos, and even get their activities logged with fraud prevention agencies that the industry uses, such as ProcCyber's "Risk Sentinel" system. I am surprised therefore, that Babs claims to be able to come to a quick amicable solution with both casinos named in this issue.
Another couple of posts does seem to indicate that some US banks are likely to take it upon themselves to return charges they consider related to gambling, even if the customer does not specifically dispute them. This IS a danger, and those processors who still return the merchant code for a gambling transaction when the card is issued from a US bank are asking for trouble. Here in the UK, one card was incredibly oversensitive to gambling transactions, and stopped over 50% of them seemingly on the whim of some automated "black box" fraud detection system. Luckily, these were stopped, not let through and later returned by the system, which from the casino's end would look just like a chargeback. I have even been contacted about the ones that went through, and asked if I wished to dispute them, and I have just listened to the list and confirmed each to be authorised by me. I would not be all that surprised if this "nursemaiding" by some UK banks lead to some UK players, on receipt of such a call, and having had a bad day at the games, simply pretend the charges were unauthorised, and I am sure the banks would not dispute this, as it seems they are geared up to there being a big problem with unauthorised gambling transactions.
I worry this is going to make it harder for UK players to deposit, let alone those from the US. Again, I am surprised at the number of casinos that would far rather we use our Credit cards (where we could chargeback on a whim), but really do not like us using eWallets such as Neteller, where the casino, once paid, is not going to have to run the risk of a chargeback on a whim. Some go so far as to offer generous extra bonuses for credit card deposits, and tell Neteller users they are BANNED from ANY bonuses.
Casinos need to learn, that for them, Credit card, and VISA Debit cards for that matter, allow players to dispute charges for any reason, whereas eWallets do not provide for this, and in addition do not normally allow players to deposit money they don't have, which can happen with some credit and debit cards.
It CAN be the case that a player can be seen as having made a chargeback from the casinos point of view, simply because "the system" views all online gambling as "dodgy", as well as illegal in the USA one the bank KNOWS the nature of the transaction.
For US players, it would be best to avoid this danger by switching to methods that cannot be subject to a chargeback, but also sticking to trusted casinos who will not abuse this vulnerability of players not being able to dispute a rogue transaction.
I always write down each deposit and withdrawal on a piece of paper, then I transfer a running total to a spreadsheet, and check online that the numbers add up (debits from Neteller & my card). I check in each withdrawal as received, and know pretty soon if I am subject to an unwarranted delay.
If I have any doubt about a set of deposits not tallying, I take copies of the records and keep them till I have made the figures balance. This happened a couple of times with card transactions taking weeks to appear on my card, it was hard to match them back to the deposits, but in the end I did.
In this sorry situation, even if it seemed the casino wasn't helping, a PAB should have been the next step since Inet AND ClubWorld are both accredited. Disputing charges with a bank, especially if you are in the US, only serves to highlight your gambling activity, not a good idea.
At first, I believed Babs was caught up by the bank playing nursemaid due to UIGEA, but it seems that Babs had a tendency to use the chargeback as a weapon of FIRST resort in resolving a dispute - this will always destroy a player's reputation with casinos.
I very much doubt that Inet would take a continuing risk with Babs, given that her deposits are small & many, and fees should this ever be repeated will be out of proportion. Merely from a business point of view, this risk would be too high. I have been of the impression that players who make chargebacks get banned from online casinos, and even get their activities logged with fraud prevention agencies that the industry uses, such as ProcCyber's "Risk Sentinel" system. I am surprised therefore, that Babs claims to be able to come to a quick amicable solution with both casinos named in this issue.
Another couple of posts does seem to indicate that some US banks are likely to take it upon themselves to return charges they consider related to gambling, even if the customer does not specifically dispute them. This IS a danger, and those processors who still return the merchant code for a gambling transaction when the card is issued from a US bank are asking for trouble. Here in the UK, one card was incredibly oversensitive to gambling transactions, and stopped over 50% of them seemingly on the whim of some automated "black box" fraud detection system. Luckily, these were stopped, not let through and later returned by the system, which from the casino's end would look just like a chargeback. I have even been contacted about the ones that went through, and asked if I wished to dispute them, and I have just listened to the list and confirmed each to be authorised by me. I would not be all that surprised if this "nursemaiding" by some UK banks lead to some UK players, on receipt of such a call, and having had a bad day at the games, simply pretend the charges were unauthorised, and I am sure the banks would not dispute this, as it seems they are geared up to there being a big problem with unauthorised gambling transactions.
I worry this is going to make it harder for UK players to deposit, let alone those from the US. Again, I am surprised at the number of casinos that would far rather we use our Credit cards (where we could chargeback on a whim), but really do not like us using eWallets such as Neteller, where the casino, once paid, is not going to have to run the risk of a chargeback on a whim. Some go so far as to offer generous extra bonuses for credit card deposits, and tell Neteller users they are BANNED from ANY bonuses.
Casinos need to learn, that for them, Credit card, and VISA Debit cards for that matter, allow players to dispute charges for any reason, whereas eWallets do not provide for this, and in addition do not normally allow players to deposit money they don't have, which can happen with some credit and debit cards.
It CAN be the case that a player can be seen as having made a chargeback from the casinos point of view, simply because "the system" views all online gambling as "dodgy", as well as illegal in the USA one the bank KNOWS the nature of the transaction.
For US players, it would be best to avoid this danger by switching to methods that cannot be subject to a chargeback, but also sticking to trusted casinos who will not abuse this vulnerability of players not being able to dispute a rogue transaction.
footdr
Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Location
- cyberspace
NOT THAT I AM ENCOURAGING CHARGEBACKS BUT....
It is realatively easy to dispute any charge coming into your bank account or credit card but it is pretty hard for the Processor or Bank be they Ewallet or not ; to dispute the Charge Back as they would have to provide documentation of the Charge including the Merchant Category Code and what the transaction was for.
In this Legal climate I doubt they would #1 want to risk doing that and #2 they would have to provide fradulent documentation that showed what Merchandise or Service was provided in accordance to what they initially billed the amount as.
Obviously they would not dispute it as a Gambling Related transaction as they could then be fined by the Card Issuer and face losing their account with Visa or MasterCard.
As I said though I don't condone disputing charges unless you can not work it out with the ewallet or casinos processor and you have truly been mischarged or have another legal complaint
It is realatively easy to dispute any charge coming into your bank account or credit card but it is pretty hard for the Processor or Bank be they Ewallet or not ; to dispute the Charge Back as they would have to provide documentation of the Charge including the Merchant Category Code and what the transaction was for.
In this Legal climate I doubt they would #1 want to risk doing that and #2 they would have to provide fradulent documentation that showed what Merchandise or Service was provided in accordance to what they initially billed the amount as.
Obviously they would not dispute it as a Gambling Related transaction as they could then be fined by the Card Issuer and face losing their account with Visa or MasterCard.
As I said though I don't condone disputing charges unless you can not work it out with the ewallet or casinos processor and you have truly been mischarged or have another legal complaint
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2008
- Location
- toronto
I have first hand knowledge at least on the instadebit part of fees. A long time member here at cm and yes i wont say your name came to me back last summer. He had deposited using instadebit and won in usd so had a nice sum of money sitting in his instadebit account. Now this account was private from his family account so this meant he would have to go to the bank deposit funds to play so family never found out.
Here is what happened during live chat with instadebit he asked if he went into a casino that took cdn funds would they use the usd money first and customer service rep replied yes.
Well seems this is not so. Now few days later he gets a email from instadebit account it is now locked, email them for further instructions. Same with bank.
Fee for instadebit was 75 dollars to have his account reopened and 40 to cover the fee of the cdn casino. Bank hit him with 45 dollars overdraft.
Soafter he payed this they did reopen his instadebit account took close to 2 weeks.
The casinos involved had no fees attached as they did get their money from instadebit.
So what turned out to be a 40 dollar deposit cost him 120 cdn. Yes he had few hunderd in usd funds.
So these fees can add up and fast now if the casino got shifted on the deposit im sure they would of sent him another set of fees to reopen his account.
We also got a hold of live chat again and i asked the same question asnwer was.
Oh yes even if you had cdn funds and you wanted to pay in usd it does come out of your instadebit account card first.
I did correct them on this sent a letter to the surpervisor explaining the problems this has caused they said they would retrain their staff.
Lets hope so.
Here is what happened during live chat with instadebit he asked if he went into a casino that took cdn funds would they use the usd money first and customer service rep replied yes.
Well seems this is not so. Now few days later he gets a email from instadebit account it is now locked, email them for further instructions. Same with bank.
Fee for instadebit was 75 dollars to have his account reopened and 40 to cover the fee of the cdn casino. Bank hit him with 45 dollars overdraft.
Soafter he payed this they did reopen his instadebit account took close to 2 weeks.
The casinos involved had no fees attached as they did get their money from instadebit.
So what turned out to be a 40 dollar deposit cost him 120 cdn. Yes he had few hunderd in usd funds.
So these fees can add up and fast now if the casino got shifted on the deposit im sure they would of sent him another set of fees to reopen his account.
We also got a hold of live chat again and i asked the same question asnwer was.
Oh yes even if you had cdn funds and you wanted to pay in usd it does come out of your instadebit account card first.
I did correct them on this sent a letter to the surpervisor explaining the problems this has caused they said they would retrain their staff.
Lets hope so.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2007
- Location
- charlotte north carolina
been gone awhile
hi everyone been gone awhile hope everyone is doing good. Been reading some of the threads and i must say very interesting. One thing I use as a rule of thumb is if you are not truthful about what happened you have something to hide and having twwo acounts, that the bank done it not me, sounds like someone was covering their tracks. just thought i would put my 2 cents in.
hi everyone been gone awhile hope everyone is doing good. Been reading some of the threads and i must say very interesting. One thing I use as a rule of thumb is if you are not truthful about what happened you have something to hide and having twwo acounts, that the bank done it not me, sounds like someone was covering their tracks. just thought i would put my 2 cents in.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Location
- So Cal...Antelope Valley
I also have been only lurking occasionally lately but damn,you think you know someone and then learn you never really knew what you thought you did.I can't believe that 3dice still lets things go on like nothing hope they aren't the next charge back victims 
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