Had to close bank account

[suzecat]

This is all a wicky sticket Babs! I believe that you believe you did nothing wrong but I disagree with that decision.

Babster, you have a gambling problem IMO and what you do to clear this mess up will speak volumes about your future. Inetbet amd maybe others are out of pocket real money because of your actions or inactions. Yes, you could tell yourself you did nothing wrong and the casinos can stuff it, or you could do the honorable thing IMO and make restitution. I believe this course of action would go far in showing CM that you value your membership here.

Of course, it's up to you.

 

[babs7262]

Just to clarify one thing: I dont have a gambling problem. I am very familiar with addiction. I have a budget and stick to it. When I feel a break is needed, I take one. Not because of money, because even if I feel Im playing too many free tournies I take a break. A gambling addiction is something like any other addiction. It makes your life not managable. All of my bills are paid on time, I go out to dinner a couple times a week (or order in), I buy what Im suppose to buy on holidays , always have plenty of food, have disposable income , a 401k plan and a savings account.

Please do not accuse me of an addiction when you "may" not have an idea what that word means. This chargeback situation had nothing to do with money, it was the principle(pal) whichever one it is. I am just saying I am in no position to pay the $1800 now because that wasnt the amount charged back. It was in the $180 area and anything over that is an error.

Keep em coming, I have thick skin, but do not accuse me of addiction when my life is under control in that matter. I am a responsible gambler and that was uncalled for

 

[winbig]

It was in the $180 area and anything over that is an error.

...but you have to look at it from iNet's point of view, as well..If they were indeed (which I don't doubt) charged $75+ for each returned deposit, are they supposed to just write that amount off?

A similar scenario would be if someone went to a grocery store and wrote a check that didn't clear. The grocery store then comes after their money, but has to add on an additional $xx to make up for what the store's bank charged them....

And yet another scenario, (which has popped up here numerous times before,) is where a player gets a check from XYZ casino. They take it to their bank, and start writing checks against that check....that come to find out, doesn't clear for one reason or another. Now, you have a player that is not only out the amount of the check that they got from the casino, but now they have bounced check fees for those checks that didn't clear because the casino's check bounced.

Should the casino only be responsible for the amount of the original check? Nope, they should pay for any returned check fees, as well.


As one can see, it goes both ways...

 

[jod5413]

Babs,

I am truly sorry for this mess you have created for yourself. However, in my opinion, and probably a few others here, you are in denial about a couple of things.

As others stated before, you do not do chargebacks at a reputable casino. Then, you do not deny doing wrong and tell people you do not feel you owe the fines you caused by your irresponsible behavior.

You do not deny having a problem, gambling or otherwise, when behavior such as yours comes to light.

Thick skin or not, you are in the wrong, no matter what spin or "con" story you hand out.

You owe and you need to make it right. Your integrity, morals, and your sense of right and wrong, your friends' feelings and trust in your supposed honesty, all are at stake to the entire gaming world. There is no anonymity in this small community.

Sorry.

 

[GaryWatson]

Actually the numbers are:
21 deposits (charged back)
$273 total
the fine was $75 per transaction (it was thought to be $100 per)

$1575 in fines + $273 = $1848 Total

So what now?

OK, Im not going into the rights or wrongs of the argument so my advice would be to allow the bank account to stay closed. I would open another account elsewhere.

I would then go on to challenge the $1575 in fines. Technically I dont think they are considered fines, they are seen as processing fees. In court, the bank then has to divulge the true cost, they wont because if they did they would probably go bust after a few million refunds. Your case should go unchallenged and the bank will write it off.

Gambling can be a real bitch but the banks can put you in as much shit. Thats my view on your case against the bank. Im not sure on how to deal with the casinos side of the fees but im sure most pull a few strokes and you can probably come to some kind of arrangement to keep your peace at mind. Consider yourself banned from the Casino and move on (Away from gambling).

Babs you really need to forget about chasing that big win, you will only get yourself deeper in the crapper

 

[dcpam39]

I had to close my bank because they caught on and took out all Isagro holdings deposits without my consent. This has caused all kinds of upheaval with the casinos.

What I have a problem with, is that the original posting gave the impression that U.S. banks were/could be scrutinizing gaming transactions and denying the charges without a person's consent. When in fact, this turns out to be an individual's personal problem with a casino(s). It's a little hard to completely accept Babs explanation, when, the original posting was not complete and transparent.

 

[Antonia1953]

Never do a chargeback...and never charge more than you can afford to spend. I would have eaten the $200 before I would have charged it back. We US players have to keep a low profile with any and all payment processors.

With that said, I would encourage you to make amends with the casino with any payment plan you can agree upon. Your actions triggered the additional fees, so you are responsible for them, both ethically and morally. I think Bryan has provided the facts and I'm sorry he was put in a position to have to do that. I think you must have been feeling very desperate to bring this situation to the forum and didn't intend to step on any toes. I also think that in so doing, you have warned others of the horrors that can arise with a chargeback.

You can't change what has happened, but you can do your best to repair the damage. I think all of us have taken actions that resulted in unintended damage and when it happens all we can do is try and repair it. I don't think fighting what has to be done is going to provide you any comfort, but working toward a solution will....I promise you.

 

[babs7262]

I know myself and I know for a fact that I dont have a gambling problem. You guys do not know me and can sure think what you want. Depositing $50-$100 a week is nothing and not a problem because thats what I budget for. I cashout $50-$100 plus at a time, I dont keep going like alot of you guys do hoping for that unattainable pipe dream. What I said in the past is that I would like to win $1000 at one time,( its a nice goal for me to look foward to one day if it ever happens.) from one of my $10 deposits that I start out low rolling and move up. Once I hit more than $100 plus some to keep me entertained, I cash out. I am one of the healthiest gamblers here, Its so funny that you guys can sit here and judge me when I see $10-$20 spins and "omg i was up $5K and lost it" posts. Are you kidding me? I already closed out my accounts with 90% of the casinos months ago because they do nothing for me. I am exclusive to 3dice and have been for quite some time with an exception of a Rival every now and then or when I played CLubWorld ONCE last week but that was it.

Im sorry to disappoint you but I am basically a happy person with health issues in a not perfect but very good marriage that has everything she needs and a few things I would like to have. As much as I enjoy reading posts in here, my life wont change one way or another if I am banned because I always find things to do. I am satisfied with any decision that is made because as I said before, my real "friends" will keep in touch with me and the ones that don't were never really friends

 

[XOXOXOXOXOX]

On another note, there have been some questions about Linda7's account being closed here - it has nothing to do with this thread.

She had created another persona 9111986 for whatever reason, and filed a bogus PAB
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

Linda7 and 9111986 are the same person, using the same computer. She tried BSing her way out of it, but she blew it, which is a real shame since she is a long time member.

I am sorry, may be this comment does not belong to this thread but how someone be "Quit Gambling" after they were caught having duplicate account and opened a bogus PAB??

 

[Casinomeister]

I am sorry, may be this comment does not belong to this thread but how someone be "Quit Gambling" after they were caught having duplicate account and opened a bogus PAB??

Because she was a long time member and I'm trying to save her some embarrassment. Sometimes discretion is the best policy.

She quit the forum with my assistance you might say.

 

[Lisa10xxx]

Reading all this mess I feel sorry for EVERYONE because WHO EVER is at fault, it is still a bad situation for all involved. I will be sorry to see babs go "IF" that is Bryan's decision, KNOWING it will NOT be easy for him to do. Hopefully, babs you and Inetbet can come to some sort of agreement as to HOW you can pay back what you owe. I do believe you owe Inetbet but can't comment on how much because I am just a bystander. I do however trust Bryan with the figures he showed, you are responsible for the charge back fees babs, it certainly is NOT the casinos obligation to pay them but maybe they will forgive some? You could try. Good luck and I hope this ends on good terms for everyone involved. I hope babs everything works out for you in your personal life as well!

 

[AussieDave]

I, like others, would hate to see her go...because when it all boils down, I think babs is a great person to have around.

I agree

But on the same token, having different course for different horses, that is 1 rule for one and another for someone else, makes mockery of the whole ban protocols.

I don't believe that all rules should be black & white. In this instance IMO babs forum history should be taken into consideration. But I also feel that the severity of this is matter has broken a cardinal rule. With that in mind I it's my opinion that a suspension for x number of days would be fitting.

Maybe this post will jack people up. I'm sorry if that's the case. But, if we are to honour and abide by a set of rules, then everyone (given case by case situation) can not just be given a get out of jail card free based on whether you like someone or not.

Cheers
T

 

[catrina m]

Such a shame.

Honesty is a good policy.

 

[LaurieJim]

babs, you know i think the world of you and we are good buds,we talk on the phone and we will continue to be friends no matter how the chips fall, you have given me advice in the past, it was hard to swallow but i did what you suggested as you cared for me as a friend and now thats what im doing for you.

im asking you as a friend who cares to email emily on these chargebacks or her boss, everyone has to answer to someone, see if you can make payments to them on these fines, pay the 200.00 plus charges now if you can, to show your good faith.

i will be there for you as a friend, you are a honorable good person and i do think this whole mess can be made right. if anything good has come from all of this, its to show what a high price anyone can pay for chargebacks, money wise and personally. im here for you and please do not be mad at me as this is from someone who cares about you..................laurie

 

[Simmo!]

Potential solution:

Babs repays iNet a set amount, perhaps the $273 charged back, and agrees to a condition that over the course of a given time period she continues to play there depositing to the value of at least the debt balance. If she loses it, well they have their money back and gambling there means she isn't putting the money owed to iNet into another casino in the meantime.

If she wins or cashes out, iNet keep 75% of the cashout ongoing until the debt is paid. Perhaps with a year time limit. Conditionally: Babs is not allowed to charge back again and she has to deposit that amount over the period decided on, if she doesmn't the outstanding balance is due in full.

Seems like a gentle solution to a delicate issue.

One serious issue here: whatever the solution, I suggest it is not published or it potentially sets a precedent and might encourage unscrupulous people to try it on.

 

[anniemac]

Simmo,

While your suggestion has merit, what happens when the next player does the same thing? Is Inetbet going to be lenient with them too? Of course InetBet could agree just to recoup something. But I don't see it happening.

I'm not after Babs at all but as the saying goes "What's good for the goose is good for the gander". It can't be one way for one and another way for someone else.

 

[EasyRhino]

$75 in fees on transactions that averaged under $10 each. Somebody got robbed. I don't know if the guys raking in the fees were Babs's bank, Isagro, or Inetbet, but somebody made out like a bandit. I don't find $75 in fees to be unbelievable, but I do find it to be ridiculous.

Babs's decision is complicated. Let's assume that she should not have charged back any of the transactions. Well that's fine, but now you have a casino coming to collect for $1800. The thing is... she has absolutely no incentive to pay it. Like a homeowner getting foreclosed on, she can just walk away. Get the casino account closed, the bank account closed, and the meister account closed. For $1800, I'd be willing to sacrifice them all.

(And for the record, I've never even thought of disputing legitimate transactions, but if someone wants to charge me $1500 in bank charges, I'm going to tell them to pound sand).

Inetbet's position is simple. They want to get paid. Preferably by a method that can't be charged back. They've also probably had to deal with this situation with other customers... I wondered how they handled it.

Perhaps Babs could offer to pay the original deposit amount ($200 ish). then, some investigative work could be doen to asses where the fees were charged... and then see what happens. If it was Babs's bank, she could try jawboning them into refunding fees, assuming that she has a leg to stand on in her argument that the bank charged back TOO MANY transactions. If Isagro charged fees to Inetbet, maybe Inetbet can jawbone them.

 

[LaurieJim]

Simmo,

While your suggestion has merit, what happens when the next player does the same thing? Is Inetbet going to be lenient with them too? Of course InetBet could agree just to recoup something. But I don't see it happening.

I'm not after Babs at all but as the saying goes "What's good for the goose is good for the gander". It can't be one way for one and another way for someone else.

it does have that flaw annie, but if babs doesnt have the 1800.00 plus right now, this would be a way of inet recouping their losses and barbara having a way to pay back the fines,them keeping 75% of any cashouts would be more than fair imo and also it would be a way of showing her good will of repaying, its far better than a repayment plan, it would allow her to gamble and pay off those fines at the same time. i would hope inet would offer this option to her as a one shot, take it or leave it deal, theres that other saying about" you cant get blood out of a turnip",not that im calling her a turnip but i have to agree simmo does have a good plan but your point is just as valid, there are some out there who might want the same treatment....this is kinda like" stuck between a rock and a hard place"............laurie

 

[winbig]

$75 in fees on transactions that averaged under $10 each. Somebody got robbed.

Fees are what they are. Say you had a bank account and you wrote a check for 50 cents over what you had in the account. The bank has every right to charge you $50 or even $500 in overdraft fees, as stated in their T&C. The only difference is that a bank may or may not waive these fees, but again, it's up to someone that has the power to say so. They are in no way obligated to waive the fees. If that .50 caused several checks to bounce, then guess what? The bank is going to charge you that same amount for each and every returned check. They could care less how much in fees that you accumulate.

Does it make things right that they can charge an exhorbinate amount for such small transactions? Nope.....but they have the right to do so if you agreed to their T&C.

And also keep in mind that we're talking about a business processing account, not some personal checking account....so I can imagine that their fees are somewhat higher than average. Especially when they're dealing with a processor that will even consider taking USA transactions.

 

[catrina m]

When this was first posted she said it was all the banks idea, I immediately went to my banks website to make sure this had not happened to me. I took it upon her merit as a member of this forum that some more problems were looming for US players.

Then several players asked which bank. Which was what I wanted to do since it might be my bank, (some are nationwide). Then swerve to the left. then swerve to the right. What can you believe but whats been produced and proved.

My skin is not thick, but I would never spend money, receive a product and wan't my money back. Isn't it that simple?

Please forgive me for saying so but isn't that almost being a thief?

I don't want to bring harsh words like that into any conversation but am I seeing this wrong now that I have read it?

I apologize in advance if the community see's this post as too much but this thread shocked me, and put me even more ill at ease about a pastime I sometimes complain about, but really enjoy.

 

[catrina m]

I had to close my bank because they caught on I wasnt going to make this public because I didnt want to scare people.

It did

 

[LaurieJim]

as someone who speaks to babs on the phone atleast once a week for some time now , i can assure you she is no thief imho. i would imagine she is afraid and confused on what she should do right now, i dont know for sure as only she can speak for herself but im positive that she will do the right thing as soon as she has time to reflect on what needs to be done to get this mess behind her. we all make mistakes in our lives, who ever doesnt or hasnt would not be telling the truth, we live and learn by our mistakes, thats what makes us human.............laurie

 

[Nifty29]

Geez what a mess - shame it had to happen to Inetbet as they are one of the few shining lights these days and always have been.

If we want to get down to brass tacks, Babs has no LEGAL obligation to repay ANY of the fees or even the deposit amounts. As another poster pointed out, its like losing your home - you just walk away and the financiers bear the associated costs....but guess what??...we will all have to pay as the casinos have to recover those funds somehow, whether it be via higher wagering on bonuses or max cashouts or even reduced payout %....PLUS the increasing charges from our banks to recover what they lose in the whole process. I believe that most of the 'processing fees' generated are paid to VISA/MC etc as it is all done through their system, with the banks adding their own fees to cover their own 'time'.

I look at it this way. If Im walking down the street and I see someone lying there groaning or obviously injured in some way, I have no LEGAL obligation to assist them. Would I help them? Absolutely, and so would most of you. Its the right thing to do. Its a MORAL obligation.

Now Babs has to decide what 'doing the right thing' means to her personally.


FYI _ I found some info about chargebacks on the web for anyone (like me) who wasnt entirely clear about the process and how it affects businesses.

A merchant is billed for chargebacks as they occur, along with other fees and settlements associated with credit card acceptance. Because a merchant may be charged back in error, and because chargebacks may often involve complicated customer disputes, a chargeback may be appealed by the merchant. This process varies by credit card. If the chargeback is found to have been in error, the transaction will be "re-presented" and the merchant will be granted a reversal.

Thieves occasionally abuse the chargeback system. For example, in a "Friendly Fraud", an unscrupulous customer will make a purchase over the Internet with his own credit card and then issue a chargeback once the product or service is received. In such cases merchants can have difficulty recovering payment.

In cases of credit card fraud, the merchant loses the goods or services sold, the payment, the fees for processing the payment, any currency conversion commissions, and the chargeback processing fee

 

[GaryWatson]

Nifty, I dont agree with every point, but a gambling debt is a debt. If you play with your cash to win more cash you should be prepared to lose and accept it.

Chargebacks happen for a reason & if this case is justified, fair enough but if not, poor show.

Some forum members should refrain from offering their team character support. Many dont agree but are not as focal.

This comes down to a (non) compulsive gambler living within her means. She doesnt have an issue with paying out but she has an issue with why she is paying out. End of story.

 

[dalzilla]

Going to be blunt....

The question I have is why wasn't Babs honest upfront? Rules are rules, chargebacks are chargebacks. I feel like she has violated the trust of the forum.