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- Oct 10, 2012
- Location
- London
“Queried their gameplay” what exactly was written to them?
GVC - Coral and Galacasino showing the wrong RTP to players, possible breach of license
- Thread starter colinsunderland
- Start date
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- Jan 8, 2019
- Location
- Essex
The question for progress would be 'Has that been lodged as an official complaint?'.
Judging by the response I would hazard a guess at no. The response should come from a complaints handler or team of sorts and they have to advise you of next steps if you are unhappy.
These customer service responses are just a fob and I don't believe you have been through the complaints process.
To make an official complaint is the only way they will take you seriously.
geordiecolin
Sporney eyed parrot faced wazzock
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2015
- Location
- Novacastrian
That is pretty serious in itself!
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
Problem is, the emails don't give you any further details on how to complain or anything, so anyone who has seen anything about this but not read it fully, might have complained then gave up after getting that response. Customer service shouldn't be lying to customers, they should be saying they are aware of the problem and they will be contacting them in due course, at the very least.
So much for the email the complaints team said would be getting sent too.
I really start to like this topic...
Every 3 posts you can actually find the "Best casino 2019"!
Makes it easier to find places where you dont get fooled !
Btw. Dont play Maya Gold from IGT -i think i made a mistake in the version and were running that game at around 92/93%. If I did, I'll fix it during the next week
Book of the spinx is fine though...
Kr. Jan
Every 3 posts you can actually find the "Best casino 2019"!
Makes it easier to find places where you dont get fooled !
Btw. Dont play Maya Gold from IGT -i think i made a mistake in the version and were running that game at around 92/93%. If I did, I'll fix it during the next week
Book of the spinx is fine though...
Kr. Jan
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
I really start to like this topic...
Every 3 posts you can actually find the "Best casino 2019"!
Makes it easier to find places where you dont get fooled !
Btw. Dont play Maya Gold from IGT -i think i made a mistake in the version and were running that game at around 92/93%. If I did, I'll fix it during the next week
Book of the spinx is fine though...
Kr. Jan
Don't worry, it's IGT, no one on here will have played it anyway
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- Apr 27, 2009
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- the land of snow and maple syrup
it's in EVERY topic
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- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
LOL - just trying to get the word out. 
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- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
The original email below
Good evening,
I am writing in regards to an issue I, and others, have encountered on your site in the past months. This relates specifically to play on the games Legacy of Dead and Book of Dead. I opened the game help file to see an RTP of 96.16% quoted on the games. However, it has come to light that you were actually running these games at 94%. I can provide evidence of this if required but I believe it is now a known issue across GVC.
Having played through entire balances on both games of £125 and £150 on separate occasions and also sporadically other Play N Go games I am stating that in fact the odds were displayed incorrectly during that time giving a lower possibility of a return. In light of this I am requesting the two deposits made as above.
Please can you advise further.
Thanks
Xxxxx
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2012
- Location
- IOM
Truly shocking response from Coral on this entire affair, doesn't do the 'industry' much in the way of favours at all.
Nice of you to put all those kisses at the end of your email though EkJR.
Nice of you to put all those kisses at the end of your email though EkJR.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Another response! Haha
Thank you for contacting Customer Service.
I hope this email finds you well.
As a player I can appreciate your frustration Xxxxx. Unfortunately, the nature of gambling is that there are no guaranteed wins - it is ultimately down to luck within a session. For further information on this, please visit our homepage, scroll to the bottom of the site then select 'Fairness'.
Thank you for contacting Customer Service.
I hope this email finds you well.
As a player I can appreciate your frustration Xxxxx. Unfortunately, the nature of gambling is that there are no guaranteed wins - it is ultimately down to luck within a session. For further information on this, please visit our homepage, scroll to the bottom of the site then select 'Fairness'.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
I'm actually pissing myself with laughter at the response. This was after a screenshot of both the game help file and the running file were shown and a link to the thread here sent.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2012
- Location
- IOM
There's clearly been no communication on what they've done to their frontline support staff at all. Truly terrible behaviour.
And people wonder why the UKGC have a habit of hitting these places with the big stick.....
And people wonder why the UKGC have a habit of hitting these places with the big stick.....
- Joined
- May 6, 2019
- Location
- North West
Wow those responses are truly shocking. If I was the UKGC reading that, I'd be inclined to force Coral/Gala to refund ALL wagers made on all the games affected, regardless of winning or losing sessions. Just a blanket refund.
Would certainly send out a clear message.
Would certainly send out a clear message.
geordiecolin
Sporney eyed parrot faced wazzock
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2015
- Location
- Novacastrian
I have copied and pasted the above message to them not forgetting to attribute that the message is from you.
But I have added the caveat :-
" I have a number of buddys who have been seriously impacted over recent months by your duplicity in presenting rtp in games that have been lower than advertised. The emotional and financial trauma has not only effected those involved but it has seriously impacted those who have had to be there for them over recent times.
I therefore demand recompence for the distress I have had to deal with even though I have not deposited and played at your casinos for a few years.
Take note that I have instructed my lawyers accordingly"
Yours faithfully
Geordiecolin
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2008
- Location
- midlands
Those guys are just unbelievable, not once aknowledging the problem,just sending out stock answers.
They really do deserve to lose their license, not just for rtp problem, but for way it has not been dealt with.
Hope the UKGC rules that they are not fit to run a casino or at least give them a record fine
They really do deserve to lose their license, not just for rtp problem, but for way it has not been dealt with.
Hope the UKGC rules that they are not fit to run a casino or at least give them a record fine
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2012
- Location
- London
You need to quote from the UKGC handbook the clear rules on RTP - state this has been violated - give the examples of the violation stated in this thread.
Then request a GDPR confirming all the information they have on you - including play records on what games. This will then go from shitty Customer Services over to their Data Protection department/officer to be signed off and will be taken a lot more seriously as the implications for getting that aspect wrong has much bigger consequences financially.
I would also say that will complain to your bank/their merchant providers if you deposited by debit/credit card (this will be Worldpay or similar etc) that they have breached the terms of their merchant agreement (offering goods/services not as advertised) and ultimately if matters are not concluded correctly you be seeking to re-claim these deposits directly from your bank. This is credible and realistic.
I personally wouldn't give empty threats of “instructing solicitors” to represent you for compensation for “distress” if you want them to take you seriously - unless you have actually done that - which I don’t advise.
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- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Not me that's doing that last part btw. Also this is NOT my account, I'm advising a friend with a Coral account on it. Regardless the whole thing is an absolute joke.
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- Feb 3, 2018
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- Glasgow
Gets better, response 3.
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- Dec 18, 2014
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- Balcony
Why not go to one of the newspapers? Get the word out that they have been cheating their clients out of their hard-earned cash.
That should get them moving and actually start doing something.
That should get them moving and actually start doing something.
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- May 6, 2019
- Location
- North West
Yes there seems to be a few media outlets on the 'trash talk gambling' train at the moment.
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- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
Thats just a copy/paste answer, so they haven't even read the query properly, same as I was getting when I was trying to tell them about the problem. Heres part of one of my chats, look familiar?
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Wow. Almost identical in parts. Apples and oranges!
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- Jan 8, 2019
- Location
- Essex
None of these responses confirm an official complaint. They are in the forms of discussion and advice.
No emails I have seen either state 'i would like to make an official complaint'.
Until you are going through the complaints procedure you are just seen as having a casual chat regardless of the severity.
I have not deposited so do not think I have grounds for complaining. If I was I would state this -
'I am writing to make a formal complaint. Please reply confirming receipt and outlining the details of your complaints procedure. I believe that under UKGC guidelines you have 8 weeks from today's date.'
There is no need to go into too much detail until you are speaking with an appropriate complaints handler.
If they go silent then 8 weeks later I believe the next step would be an ADR which I believe CM may be able to help with.
In any case, if anybody reaches the 8 weeks I will know by then the next course of action.
No emails I have seen either state 'i would like to make an official complaint'.
Until you are going through the complaints procedure you are just seen as having a casual chat regardless of the severity.
I have not deposited so do not think I have grounds for complaining. If I was I would state this -
'I am writing to make a formal complaint. Please reply confirming receipt and outlining the details of your complaints procedure. I believe that under UKGC guidelines you have 8 weeks from today's date.'
There is no need to go into too much detail until you are speaking with an appropriate complaints handler.
If they go silent then 8 weeks later I believe the next step would be an ADR which I believe CM may be able to help with.
In any case, if anybody reaches the 8 weeks I will know by then the next course of action.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Just been advised that Wildz casino(MGA) also
It's all been sent to the complaints email now who appears to be UK based. Will update in due course.
It's all been sent to the complaints email now who appears to be UK based. Will update in due course.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
Mine did, and have an official complaints handler, to which I posted his response during the week. The fact he stated very clearly all customers would be getting an email this week, shows his trustworthyness.
I know why it hasn't been sent, but don't promise what you can't deliver.
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2019
- Location
- Essex
Absolutely, it seems fobbing off is the employed tactic at the minute.
Also, request for your data usually costs about £10. Companies do tend to listen when you do this but their refusal to handle the complaint will carry more than enough weight for now with the UKGC.
All in all though thanks again boys. A wrong has been corrected and all thanks to your tenacity. Although without punishment or some form of reimbursement......even an apology....I do not think the balance has been corrected.
My posts are not meant to anger, criticise or infuriate, more guide if wanted.
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- Joined
- Jan 2, 2018
- Location
- UK
They're not allowed to charge you for a copy of your data since the GDPR laws came in.
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
It all seems to be quiet from the ukgc, anyone have an idea if they're investigating what went on here?
I think it might be a better idea to write to the ukgc rather than be fobbed off by Coral's customer service team, millions of pounds have been played through popular games which advertised incorrect rtp information, that's got to be an issue for ukgc to investigate and then inform coral what they need to do re their customers/players...
edit: I wonder how much was played through the games, do coral/gala offer their product (in this case slots) to non-uk players as well?
I think it might be a better idea to write to the ukgc rather than be fobbed off by Coral's customer service team, millions of pounds have been played through popular games which advertised incorrect rtp information, that's got to be an issue for ukgc to investigate and then inform coral what they need to do re their customers/players...
edit: I wonder how much was played through the games, do coral/gala offer their product (in this case slots) to non-uk players as well?
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2019
- Location
- Essex
Nice! I know they used to. Well if it's free I say go for it.
Made £50 from a free £5 on BGO last week!
Well actually £130 but conversion limit and charge for withdrawal took to £47.50
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
I have raised it with them and I'm sure Colin has as well. Would urge others to do the same though.
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2012
- Location
- London
You don’t need to signify it as a “official complaint” to make it a formal complaint. All complaints in writing will (should) be treated as formal and treated as such.
You could do a companies house search to find the directors and direct it all of them. This then becomes a “executive” complaint and will be taken more seriously. Of course the directors will unlikely even look at it but it will be taken more seriously and be dealt with for a company that size a separate team. I have done this twice with Hermes and Currys PC world and got a 24hr response
Although in this case the CS responses are puzzling, as we know the reps and therefore superiors are award of it. And they don’t seem concerned. At all. I do have personal view of why this might be I wouldn’t like to publicly speculate.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2008
- Location
- midlands
Think the silence from UKGC is a pretty positive sign,they must considering the gravity of the case
and the appropriate sanctions,if it was just going to be a slap on the wrist i think we would have heard
something by now, seems to me that every day that is passing Coral are digging a deeper and deeper
hole,churning out total BS to any players asking what they are doing to address and resolve the situation.
and the appropriate sanctions,if it was just going to be a slap on the wrist i think we would have heard
something by now, seems to me that every day that is passing Coral are digging a deeper and deeper
hole,churning out total BS to any players asking what they are doing to address and resolve the situation.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
UKGC wont go back to anyone on things like this. They will just put a judgement out at some point in the coming weeks.
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- Oct 10, 2012
- Location
- London
Agree but managment would normally be sending a blanket holding response - which they are not. Weird.
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- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Another response
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- Joined
- Mar 13, 2008
- Location
- Ontario
This really needs to be mainstream press. Is there a consumer watchdog TV show in the UK.
Are class action suits a thing in the UK? Millions of spins by thousands of players.
They should be issuing refunds to all players, based on bets placed, not the outcomes, and an additional sum to the consumers as a "Sincere apology and gesture of goodwill for this regrettable mistake". This wording is mine, but please feel free to use it Coral/Gala.
Geez, I miss Pinababy. I am sure she would have had some choice words on this issue.
Are class action suits a thing in the UK? Millions of spins by thousands of players.
They should be issuing refunds to all players, based on bets placed, not the outcomes, and an additional sum to the consumers as a "Sincere apology and gesture of goodwill for this regrettable mistake". This wording is mine, but please feel free to use it Coral/Gala.
Geez, I miss Pinababy. I am sure she would have had some choice words on this issue.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
I've had that before in chat too. This is what I was meaning previously saying email is wasting time, everything you have had back so far, I've had on a single chat session, saving days of back and forwards.
The support based in Manila are absolutely useless, they are rude, they don't listen, they just copy and paste replies, and have absolutely no idea what they are talking about most the time. Why any company dealing with the public think this is a good idea is beyond me. This isn't just on this matter, ask them anything not likely to be in the script to see how bad they are. Ask them how the price returned on a forecast is arrived at, or the difference between a tricast and a trifecta, see what copy & paste answer you get!
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2019
- Location
- Essex
In banking in the UK, customer services can do what is called a 'first touch response' to a complaint. This allows them to solve any grievance without going through the formal complaint process.
I just wondered if it was similar for the UKGC and the majority of responses from CS I have seen would suggest no complaint has been recorded and the complaints process certainly not started.
I could'nt see anything in the guidelines regarding live chat, only email or telephone. But its still on my reading list.
In any case, they must confirm receipt of a complaint and then must attempt a satisfactory resolution before 8 weeks. I think if you mention complaint in your initial contact there is no grey area.
I hope there are some Coral players who have asked for refunds. Those generic fobs to look at their literature are most annoying and ive not deposited. Their arrogance and ignorant stance is not pretty and does not flatter a genuine mistake.
The fact remains they advertised a different return than the version being run. Should refund to correct and apologise, simple.
Reminds me a little of PPI adverts.........
Were you mis-sold RTP in the past?
Have you paid out for more than what you needed?
Corals are paying back their customers millions in refunds for mis-selling RTP. Dont miss out!
Call RTP Refunds on 0800 000 0000 now!
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2014
- Location
- Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Certainly in the public sector if you complain they have what's known as 'front stage' resolution where, in many cases it's resolved there and then (Oi, you aint lifted my bin - ok, we'll be out in an hour) - you still needed to record it as a complaint but very few do so as tricky to keep tabs on. But you then needed to say if you wanted it to go to the formal complaints setting if still not happy.
Many moons ago i used to occupy my working day reading some belters - there was one where someone complained the work they were getting done led to the death of their fish due to the noise, and that hey should have been quieter during the kitchen refit.
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- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
Regarding the UKGC, I'm going to speak to them again this week. The auto response says they will respond within 20 working days, but also that they do not become involved in individual consumer complaints, and I was told on the phone I won't get any feedback or told what the outcome is, unless it requires regulatory action, in which case it will be published on their website when completed.
I don't think thats right in this case, so will be speaking to them midweek to see what they say, if nothing else, to find out if they want more information.
I haven't heard anything back from Coral complaints apart from the email I posted earlier in the thread.
The new Ladbrokes Coral rep who joined, said he wanted to improve the reputation of Ladbrokes and Coral, and would post on the thread when he got a few more answers. Hasn't been seen since Tuesday. Also hasn't responded to my last couple of PM's.
Another senior member of staff who is a member on here also contacted me, after Adam disappeared, and has said he won't be commenting on the thread, so therefore I think thats not going to happen. He cited his lack of response on here on a few things, one being that they are not accredited, which was something they didn't want, but this was the reason why they were removed (Bryan's words)
They told me that this was not a priority - and that if their non-responsiveness was reason enough to remove them from the accredited section, then they quote: "will review whether we want any further dealings with your site."
So not really anyone's fault except their own. Having said that I do understand other reasons why he won't comment on this thread, but that doesn't mean I think it's right, especially after the other rep stated he would be.
There are other things I have discussed with them both but as it was by PM I don't really want to get into that at this point, and none of it really affects whats happening at the moment. Obviously they have removed all the PnG games at Coral which at least is a step in the right direction, and most are still missing from Galacasino, Book of Dead now displays the correct RTP. Galaspins have at least one that is showing the incorrect RTP but that is like the one posted earlier, showing 94.00% rather than the correct 94.xx value. The loss limit is working ok on the 2 gala sites, but I know there was problems fixing it at Coral, which is probably why all the games are missing.
And thats about it so far.
I don't think thats right in this case, so will be speaking to them midweek to see what they say, if nothing else, to find out if they want more information.
I haven't heard anything back from Coral complaints apart from the email I posted earlier in the thread.
The new Ladbrokes Coral rep who joined, said he wanted to improve the reputation of Ladbrokes and Coral, and would post on the thread when he got a few more answers. Hasn't been seen since Tuesday. Also hasn't responded to my last couple of PM's.
Another senior member of staff who is a member on here also contacted me, after Adam disappeared, and has said he won't be commenting on the thread, so therefore I think thats not going to happen. He cited his lack of response on here on a few things, one being that they are not accredited, which was something they didn't want, but this was the reason why they were removed (Bryan's words)
They told me that this was not a priority - and that if their non-responsiveness was reason enough to remove them from the accredited section, then they quote: "will review whether we want any further dealings with your site."
So not really anyone's fault except their own. Having said that I do understand other reasons why he won't comment on this thread, but that doesn't mean I think it's right, especially after the other rep stated he would be.
There are other things I have discussed with them both but as it was by PM I don't really want to get into that at this point, and none of it really affects whats happening at the moment. Obviously they have removed all the PnG games at Coral which at least is a step in the right direction, and most are still missing from Galacasino, Book of Dead now displays the correct RTP. Galaspins have at least one that is showing the incorrect RTP but that is like the one posted earlier, showing 94.00% rather than the correct 94.xx value. The loss limit is working ok on the 2 gala sites, but I know there was problems fixing it at Coral, which is probably why all the games are missing.
And thats about it so far.
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2012
- Location
- Blighty
My personal take on this is that their actions since the issue has come to light are more reprehensible than the error itself.
I’m somewhat cynical but am ok to believe that the original problem was an error. I would like to think if I were running a regulated casino and changed the platform of my slots that I’d check all the details for said slots were still valid, especially the most significant one, but maybe that’s just me.
What is not acceptable though is that they have been made aware of this from shortly after the change but have chosen to do nothing about it. In addition to this they appear to be determined to respond with stock answers which both avoid the issue and imply the player does not understand RTP as if that actually has any bearing in what has happened.
Fundamentally, as has been mentioned, they have effectively mis-sold a range of slots. They can stock answer all they like about how their slots meet industry averages, if their slots ran for a billion spins with this error they would come out 2% less to the player than what they are advertising, and some significant amount better off financially for the casino.
I’m somewhat cynical but am ok to believe that the original problem was an error. I would like to think if I were running a regulated casino and changed the platform of my slots that I’d check all the details for said slots were still valid, especially the most significant one, but maybe that’s just me.
What is not acceptable though is that they have been made aware of this from shortly after the change but have chosen to do nothing about it. In addition to this they appear to be determined to respond with stock answers which both avoid the issue and imply the player does not understand RTP as if that actually has any bearing in what has happened.
Fundamentally, as has been mentioned, they have effectively mis-sold a range of slots. They can stock answer all they like about how their slots meet industry averages, if their slots ran for a billion spins with this error they would come out 2% less to the player than what they are advertising, and some significant amount better off financially for the casino.
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- Mar 14, 2017
- Location
- UK / Switzerland
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- Mar 19, 2008
- Location
- midlands
My thoughts exactly,they are treating players like idiots who dare to ask questions they dont like and
dont intend answering,I can believe it was a genuine mistake but cannot for the life of me understand
how it has not been dealt with
dont intend answering,I can believe it was a genuine mistake but cannot for the life of me understand
how it has not been dealt with
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- Feb 3, 2018
- Location
- Glasgow
Standard response now. Pushed the other one to a complaint so will see what happens now but think it's now time to get the ADR involved.
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2019
- Location
- Essex
If you complaint states that you played a different RTP version than what was stated in the help files and you feel this had a negative impact i.e. loss of money, then they have clearly avoided the issue of your complaint.
If you wish to take it further I would write back, maybe include some proof you have, saying your unhappy with them avoiding the issue and the response. As a result you will be taking it further if a satisfactory response addressing the issue is not received within the 8 week period.
Thats how i see it within the guidelines for complaints with the UKGC.
Edit: Missed your response @EkJR yes, ADR would be the next step.
2nd Edit: Unsure if there actually needs to be a negative impact to complain i.e. you could have won but there is an argument to say you could have won more i guess. Maybe somebody else might know more about this but no harm pushing for now to get a satisfactory resolution.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
- Location
- uk
Yes, I mentioned that earlier in the thread.
Complaints procedure - I'm not sure 18.4 is very legal, would love to see that argued in court!
So the third email should be escalated to the Customer Service Manager
18.4 During the resolution process You must agree not to reveal the existence or detail of any enquiry, Complaints or Disputes to any third party, which could include discussions in chat rooms or equivalent forums and shall be deemed Confidential Information. In the event of unauthorised disclosure of confidential information, then the resolution process will be put on hold. In these circumstances we will also have the ability to freeze and potentially close Your account.
Complaints Procedure
18.5 The complaints procedure is as follows:
Stage 1
You should initially contact our Customer Support Team and an advisor (the Agent) will investigate the enquiry and respond to it. The Agent will log the call/message and make notes on their response.
Stage 2
Should your enquiry not be resolved at this stage, the matter will be referred to the Agent's Team/ Line Manager. The Team/ Line Manager will review the matter and communicate their decision to you.
Stage 3
If you still remain dissatisfied, the matter may be escalated to the Customer Support Manager, at which time your enquiry will be either recorded as a Complaint, or, where the matter relates to a betting or gaming transaction, a Dispute.
Complaints and Disputes Resolution Policy
18.6 The Complaints and Disputes resolution policy is as follows:
Upon receipt of an escalated enquiry, the Customer Support Manager will obtain a report from the nominated Agent and Line/Team Manager as appropriate and carry out any further necessary investigation and respond to you. The response of the Customer Support Manager represents the final stage of the Internal Complaints and Disputes procedure.
Should you remain dissatisfied in relation to a Dispute, you do have the option to escalate the matter externally via an Alternative Dispute Resolution provider. Please see below for more information.
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2019
- Location
- Essex
This is interesting. It does not state how long it can or will be put on hold for anywhere you have seen?
Could be a point or angle they wish to try and use to their benefit and the mention of sharing sensitive information with 3rd parties is another which is open to interpretation.
In any case, complaints handling, contracts and t&c's cannot breach the guidelines set by the jurisdiction within which they operate.
Hopefully justice is served for those affected and a lesson in compliance taught/learnt when it comes to making sure your games are what they say they are.
It would also make sense for a new system or procedure to be written internally to ensure this doesnt happen in the future.
Couldnt agree more with slots having the rtp stated on the loading screen. Makes perfect sense and avoids any risk for this kind of error.
