Gun Control debate - What the hell is wrong with people???

[just play]

I doubt we will agree on much here but to me its just bizarre.

I think the thing with guns is how you were raised, where you were raised, and so on.

Of course a counry boy who went out with his father, shot and then ate the deer will be for guns.

And maybe a city person would think the opposite?

Or even vise versa.


I have no idea I'm just speculating.

 

[Balthazar]

I doubt we will agree on much here

Now THAT I agree with

but to me its just bizarre.

That's because you see things with an emotional point of view. It's similar to fighting fire with fire (literally), which seems bizarre too if you don't fully understand why it's done.

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[PNEFOREVER2]

Now THAT I agree with



That's because you see things with an emotional point of view. It's similar to fighting fire with fire (literally), which seems bizarre too if you don't fully understand why it's done.

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I understand what you are trying to say,however I would like to see someone with a similar view explain this to the parents who unfortunately have a christmas funeral to arrange.

Edit: I know what the phrase means,I just don't think its applicable here.To say it works as a defence yet we're here discussing this subject proves all is good and in 1 months time we won't be discussing the same thing after another event like this?

 

[Balthazar]

I think the thing with guns is how you were raised, where you were raised, and so on.

Of course a counry boy who went out with his father, shot and then ate the deer will be for guns.

And maybe a city person would think the opposite?

You're right. Personally I was raised around guns, my dad is an avid hunter and I've owned my first rifle at age 12. I was teached at an early age how to use firearms and what not to do with them. Guns don't scare me and I've a whole bunch of them stored at home, from handguns to semi-auto rifles (all legal and registered stuff). While I don't hunt much anymore, target shooting is my favorite hobby and I'm a member of a club.

However, for someone who was born and raised in the UK, I understand why this person would see guns as only a bad thing. Guns are seen as evil because they only see one side of the story when they talk about guns in the news, and they have no first hand experience with them because they are almost all banned.

It's all perspective.

 

[Balthazar]

I understand what you are trying to say,however I would like to see someone with a similar view explain this to the parents who unfortunately have a christmas funeral to arrange.

"I'm sorry madam, we had no answer and didn't know what to do. We tried to hide but we couldn't do anything else and had to wait for the police to come."

Maybe this will help you understand better. That said, I'm done with this thread now

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

I think the thing with guns is how you were raised, where you were raised, and so on.

Of course a counry boy who went out with his father, shot and then ate the deer will be for guns.

And maybe a city person would think the opposite?

Or even vise versa.


I have no idea I'm just speculating.

I'm not really a city person,I live in a sort of a rural location-almost inbetween if that makes sense.

I do understand your point and the majority of gun owners in the US are as much a law abiding citizen as myself,as usual in cases like this its the minority that spoil things for the majority.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

"I'm sorry madam, we had no answer and didn't know what to do. We tried to hide but we couldn't do anything else and had to wait for the police to come."

Maybe this will help you understand better. That said, I'm done with this thread now

Erm,I meant your view on guns.

 

[cpdnd31]

OK after reading this tread. Listening to all, debate about the gun laws. I would like to give my thoughts. These are my thoughts and I really don't care if you agree or not. I won't argue with you and I am also trying to respect everyone's opinion here.

Fact: These children were slaughtered - they didn't have a chance- imagine there fear. Imagine how there parents are feeling.

Fact: Too many horrific I'm a crazy person so I will make myself known to all by killing as many as I can. Then killing myself.

Fact: The guns they used were all assault/semi automatic rifles. Tell me why would you need a gun like this? These are not little handguns. Give me a reason you would need a semi automatic rifle in modern America today. I mean did I miss something are we at war? If I was in a middle eastern country maybe I could understand the purpose but here- tell me the logic.

Fact: Many Americans carry handguns- most of these handguns have 16 bullets? Why? If you can't hit what you need with a six bullet revolver you shouldn't have a gun!

Fact: I was a cop- I have seen the dead kids who found daddy's gun- I have seen the dead kids who were shot by the gang bangers because they have no aim- do me a favor if your a gang banger I really don't care if you shoot each other but hey get some lessons because you keep missing and shooting the kids mothers and innocent. I'm not joking on that. I've seen the car jackers --the grieving parents - do I need to go on for I hope you get the point. It is senseless.

All one thing in common the gun.

I put this last thought in you heads this whole thread everyone started arguing about the guns-- did anyone mention the crazy person over 150 times? No!Go count how many times the word gun was used. That has become the main topic of this thread- take the hint- you all answered your own questions. It's the gun- they kill - you can try to defend it but until you see the deaths from that weapon you will never understand it.

For those of you that have one - I pray no one steals it- yes it was safe in your hands but what if- I hope no child gets to it- and I pray you never ever have to use it- Just by buying one you are saying I am willing to take a life or you would never had bought one to begin with.

 

[Simmo!]

The guns they used were all assault/semi automatic rifles. Tell me why would you need a gun like this? These are not little handguns. Give me a reason you would need a semi automatic rifle in modern America today.

That's exactly the point I was going to make.

Someone earlier intimated that you need to understand a culture before you can pass judgement and, as someone who lives in the UK, I don't understand the need for guns at all. But they are part of US society and clearly you can't just ban them overnight even if you wanted to. But you can reduce their impact by getting rid of the guns like semi-automatics that are more suited to mass killing.

----

It's horrible to say but events like this, thankfully irregular, are the trade-off for allowing the public to own guns and sadly, the likelihood of this happening again is high, arguably inevitable. Because while you allow guns, you simply can't stop psychologically unstable people getting hold of them. The only way you can minimise the impact is to gradually "lock down" (ie: imprison) everyday folk within their surroundings but even that won't stop the person intent to destruction.

To me, this event is probably the most heartrending event of it's type to date. And at such a time of year...just so, so sad

 

[just play]

I agree with you on some of the things you said. This statement stands out to me....

I put this last thought in you heads this whole thread everyone started arguing about the guns-- did anyone mention the crazy person over 150 times? No!Go count how many times the word gun was used. That has become the main topic of this thread- take the hint- you all answered your own questions. It's the gun- they kill - you can try to defend it but until you see the deaths from that weapon you will never understand it.

I started the thread worried about how to talk to my daughter about this, and that I was sick.

In turn the thread turned into a gun debate...that's why the word gun was mentioned so many times. It was now a gun debate, not a debate over this sick fuck crazy person. Which of course I didn't want, but people post how they choose.



I agree with you on.....

The guns they used were all assault/semi automatic rifles. Tell me why would you need a gun like this?

I have some questions (like always, lol)


I don't understand this part either? What do people use these kind of guns for? To my slim knowledge of guns, you don't use them to hunt correct?

Since you were a cop, don't you think that if we were to eliminate assault/semi automatic rifles, only criminals would have them? That would be worse wouldn't it? There would still be these mass murders because they would own them. Again since I know practically nothing about guns, I don't know why normal average people own these types.

And again since you were a cop, you carried a gun right? So you know the criminals probably have one as well. I'm not sure if you mean you want to rid guns completely or just the assault/semi automatic rifles?

OK after reading this tread. Listening to all, debate about the gun laws. I would like to give my thoughts. These are my thoughts and I really don't care if you agree or not. I won't argue with you and I am also trying to respect everyone's opinion here.

Fact: These children were slaughtered - they didn't have a chance- imagine there fear. Imagine how there parents are feeling.

Fact: Too many horrific I'm a crazy person so I will make myself known to all by killing as many as I can. Then killing myself.

Fact: The guns they used were all assault/semi automatic rifles. Tell me why would you need a gun like this? These are not little handguns. Give me a reason you would need a semi automatic rifle in modern America today. I mean did I miss something are we at war? If I was in a middle eastern country maybe I could understand the purpose but here- tell me the logic.

Fact: Many Americans carry handguns- most of these handguns have 16 bullets? Why? If you can't hit what you need with a six bullet revolver you shouldn't have a gun!

Fact: I was a cop- I have seen the dead kids who found daddy's gun- I have seen the dead kids who were shot by the gang bangers because they have no aim- do me a favor if your a gang banger I really don't care if you shoot each other but hey get some lessons because you keep missing and shooting the kids mothers and innocent. I'm not joking on that. I've seen the car jackers --the grieving parents - do I need to go on for I hope you get the point. It is senseless.

All one thing in common the gun.

I put this last thought in you heads this whole thread everyone started arguing about the guns-- did anyone mention the crazy person over 150 times? No!Go count how many times the word gun was used. That has become the main topic of this thread- take the hint- you all answered your own questions. It's the gun- they kill - you can try to defend it but until you see the deaths from that weapon you will never understand it.

For those of you that have one - I pray no one steals it- yes it was safe in your hands but what if- I hope no child gets to it- and I pray you never ever have to use it- Just by buying one you are saying I am willing to take a life or you would never had bought one to begin with.

 

[skiny]

You make me want to bang my head against the wall every time that you talk about "temptation". I've owned guns all my life and was never "tempted" to shoot anyone. Just like I'm not "tempted" to run over people when I drive my car or stab people when I cut vegetables.

You'll never understand what's a free man, and you'll never understand what not being forced to put your life in the hands of your government is either. Guns are not evil, some people are evil.

It's sad when a person requires a gun to be a "free" man. The more I read about Americans who feel the need to be armed the more I understand how many Americans live in fear.

You're right. Personally I was raised around guns, my dad is an avid hunter and I've owned my first rifle at age 12. I was teached at an early age how to use firearms and what not to do with them. Guns don't scare me and I've a whole bunch of them stored at home, from handguns to semi-auto rifles (all legal and registered stuff). While I don't hunt much anymore, target shooting is my favorite hobby and I'm a member of a club.

However, for someone who was born and raised in the UK, I understand why this person would see guns as only a bad thing. Guns are seen as evil because they only see one side of the story when they talk about guns in the news, and they have no first hand experience with them because they are almost all banned.

It's all perspective.

People own hunting rifles for hunting. People own hand guns and assault rifles for killing. Call it a constitutional right. Call it personal protection. Call it anything you like but a society that perpetuates the idea that people need to be armed to be safe is truly sad.

 

[Balthazar]

It's sad when a person requires a gun to be a "free" man.

No one "requires" it, it's a choice (hence the "free" part). What's sad is when the government employees own them and then prohibit the citizens to do the same.

People own hunting rifles for hunting. People own hand guns and assault rifles for killing.

Very few civilians own actual assault rifles. What the media calls "assault rifles" are actually just plain ol' semi-auto rifles that look mean. I own them, and I own handguns, and I'm Canadian, and they are legal, and they are not for killing. How do you feel about that?

 

[just play]

The more I read about Americans who feel the need to be armed the more I understand how many Americans live in fear.

Some places here are extremely BAD!!! There are a few places you do not feel safe walking down the street in daylight. Google...Holyoke Massachusetts and Springfield Massachusetts. Both these cities are within 30 minutes from me. Driveby shootings are common, even daily occurrences in those 2 places. And this is just two areas near me, imagine all the areas in the whole USA.

My husband has a part time job, he has to take pictures of houses for people who are late on mortgages, insurance and such. He got asked to be taken off of these 2 areas.

Call it anything you like but a society that perpetuates the idea that people need to be armed to be safe is truly sad.

I have never been out of USA...so this may seem naive to some, but not to me.....

There are no places in Canada where you can't walk the streets in daylight? Every city/town/providence are all happy go lucky people and never go off and kill people? It seems strange to me that in the whole world USA is the ONLY place that have psychos?

 

[secret2]

Question

Since there never seems to be a good time to talk about Gun control, do you think that school personel should be allowed to carry guns?

Sounds frightening but what do you think?

 

[Balthazar]

Since there never seems to be a good time to talk about Gun control, do you think that school personel should be allowed to carry guns?

Sounds frightening but what do you think?

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Since there never seems to be a good time to talk about Gun control, do you think that school personel should be allowed to carry guns?

Sounds frightening but what do you think?

Imo I think there's just as much potential for the same thing to happen should this be implemented.Even then different buildings/organisations will then be targeted.

Where do you stop? You guard every school you then have to have armed guards at every hospital,cinema,library....

 

[cpdnd31]

Someone asked me some cop questions so here goes: As a cop I dealt with Criminals who had guns. Yes I carried one and my hand shook every time I had to unsnap my holster. It was the last thing I ever wanted to do... As a cop if I pulled over someone for lets say drugs- I would say I won't pull you in for this if you cough up where we can get some Guns off the street-- We would rather confiscate a gun then put a kid in jail for dope-- Semi-automatic guns no need for them- they are designed for quick fire and destruction.. Most of these people we dealt with knew how to take a 16 shot hand gun and redesign for rapid fire as well. There is no need for them - I say stop manufacturing of certain weapons- Its not a solution to the problem but it is a start-- Something needs to change and if the deaths of 20 children are not enough to show that then what will be. I honestly am more outraged today then I was yesterday. Listening to the crap on TV and the people defending yes defending the guns and why they should have them. I'm not fighting for me anymore I am fighting for the safety of my children. Those who are parents will understand that statement.

 

[Mouche12]

No one "requires" it, it's a choice (hence the "free" part). What's sad is when the government employees own them and then prohibit the citizens to do the same.




Very few civilians own actual assault rifles. What the media calls "assault rifles" are actually just plain ol' semi-auto rifles that look mean. I own them, and I own handguns, and I'm Canadian, and they are legal, and they are not for killing. How do you feel about that?

Do you use handguns for hunting?? Anyway, I am from Holland and although in spite of our anti-gun legislation we had our first ever mall shooting (a disturbed young man who owned a registered gun for target shooting). It baffles me why people should own guns other than for hunting purposes.

 

[skiny]

No one "requires" it, it's a choice (hence the "free" part). What's sad is when the government employees own them and then prohibit the citizens to do the same.

The government employees that have weapons have them for a reason. The police and military are in place to protect me. They are supposed to be armed, civilians are not. Civilians are not judges, juries or executioners. There may be rare occasions where an armed civilian may be useful. There are endless occasions when it is not. It is not ok for civilians to start deciding when it's ok to shoot other civilians. Put guns in civilian hands and that decision will have to be made. I trust the police to know when a gun should be fired. I don't trust an angry neighbour or a scared shop keeper. I have no fear of guns. I've never owned one but fired them many times. Letting average citizens collect and store guns in their home is too great of a risk just so I can go out and pop off a few targets once in a while. Guns made specifically for hunting is a different story. Guns stored properly until hunting season is hardly the same thing as people keeping hand guns or assault weapons around the house for "protection."

Very few civilians own actual assault rifles. What the media calls "assault rifles" are actually just plain ol' semi-auto rifles that look mean. I own them, and I own handguns, and I'm Canadian, and they are legal, and they are not for killing. How do you feel about that?

I am just glad that the majority of Canadians don't feel the need to keep guns in their home for protection. But I suppose there's one in every crowd.

 

[Westland Bowl]

From USA Today. Column: Gun-free zones provide false sense of security
Killers aren't stopped by these policies.

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Additional article on the changing story of the 2nd shooter:

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[skiny]

From USA Today. Column: Gun-free zones provide false sense of security
Killers aren't stopped by these policies.

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Additional article on the changing story of the 2nd shooter:

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Did you really expect to change anything by making a very small area "gun free" for a very short period of time?

You can't make a school or a mall or movie theater gun free if you can easily get one around the corner.

You can't make one state gun free if you can just drive down the highway and bring one back.

Any "journalist" who claims that gun control doesn't work because someone brought a gun into a gun free zone shouldn't be writing in the first place. They obviously don't have enough common sense to have their words published.

From the above article -- There are a lot of problems with this approach, but one of the most significant is this one: It doesn't work. One of the interesting characteristics of mass shootings is that they generally occur in places where firearms are banned: malls, schools, etc.

That doesn't mean we need to have school teachers carrying guns around in class or we need to tuck an assualt rifle under the counter for the BoosterJuice girl in the food court. It means the person on the rampage shouldn't have had access to these guns in the first place.

It amazes me how many people can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[just play]

Skiny, Like I said earlier, I think it depends where you come from and how you were raised etc.

Your opinion isn't the right one, and my opinion isn't the right one. Everyone differs in their thinking. And to say something like

It amazes me how many people can't see the forest for the trees.

makes me a bit sad that you think your opinion is that much better than anyone elses.

I am for our right to own guns, even though I will never ever buy one.




I asked one of my friends tonight what he thought of all this....his reply......


"Why don't they do something about mental illness?"

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

Skiny, Like I said earlier, I think it depends where you come from and how you were raised etc.

Your opinion isn't the right one, and my opinion isn't the right one. Everyone differs in their thinking. And to say something like makes me a bit sad that you think your opinion is that much better than anyone elses.

I am for our right to own guns, even though I will never ever buy one.




I asked one of my friends tonight what he thought of all this....his reply......


"Why don't they do something about mental illness?"

You cannot prevent mental illness.By the same token you cannot prevent every gun death but you can do your upmost to prevent them.

A person can say "I feel (or must have the right to) the need to defend myself",but the majority of the threat they feel they need to defend themselves from comes from the same gun laws that enables themselves to keep a gun.

Its a vicious circle.

 

[skiny]

Skiny, Like I said earlier, I think it depends where you come from and how you were raised etc.

I agree entirely. It does depend on where you live an how you are raised. The question is, why do people in some places want to raise their children with the idea that they need to be armed? Why raise children with the impression that owning a weapon is a good thing?

I remember a couple of stories from when I was a teenager. I remember a couple of young teens that lived in a building near the mall I used to frequent. Apparently one of them borrowed a cassette tape from the other and refused to give it back. The boy who wanted his cassette tape back took the girl's necklace as some sort of ransom. The offer was simple. Give him back the cassette and get your necklace back. Instead of making the trade she went and told her boyfriend who came back and shot him. Where do you think the gun came from?

I know another teenager who stole some hand guns his father had "locked" away and traded them for drugs in the same building complex. This was after the first shooting so they weren't the same guns but the origin of the first gun was probably similar.

The fact is, the more people there are who are allowed to own guns the more guns there will be. That's just common sense.

And the more guns there are in general, the more likely they will fall into the hands of criminals and killers.

Small time crooks are not likely going to go out and buy their weapons legally in a gun shop. They're going to buy guns that have been stolen from people who bought the legally. Mass murders may go out and buy their own weapons but they're purchasing guns that shouldn't be for sale to the general public in the first place.



According to one news article, this is one of the guns recovered. Why does a civilian need to own this gun?

 

[kauphy]

yes i do think they should be able to carry.