Grosvenor Casino and Coral now using lower RTP settings

[ChopleyIOM]

Everybody seems to forget the late 80's when a lot of UK AWPs were 78% -80% as default........ so 94% isnt the end of the world, if your playing tens of thousands of games a day, yes its gonna hurt a bit overall, but an average player isnt going to notice it short term on HV slots at all as they will swing 50%+ on a session anyway.

You can't compare compensated UK AWPs (which even now have a maximum prize of 100x stake, and back in the day were as low as 24/30x stake) and their RTPs, with online slots that are (a) Random and (b) Have top prizes often measured in many thousands of times stake.

You can get away with low RTPs on compensated machines with small jackpots, not least because a compensated machine will always actively 'aim for' its target percentage, often kicking back a portion of a player's losses back to them and giving them an obvious stop point.

The thing with online slots is the effect of a lower RTP is cumulative, an increase in the house edge from 4% to 6% is a huge difference in the long run, and whilst individual sessions will swing widely, as slots are so volatile, the overall long term effect is still that the house has increased its edge by 50%.

I've done over one million real money game rounds at 3Dice now, and guess what, I'm pretty much bang on the target RTP taken as a whole across the site, now imagine if you took what I'd lost at 3Dice over the last few years (which is quite a lot), and add another 50% on top......

You can't just wave away casinos helping themselves to an increased house edge of 50% (and often more than that!) as something players won't notice and/or shouldn't care about.

 

[goatwack]

I think the main point of contention here, is that we're supposed to take companies pulling stunts, and shut up

 

[ChopleyIOM]

If it's going to make little difference why bother doing it and undermining the product?

As I'm sure you know yourself mack, it's because the cumulative effect will be massive, let's take a reduction from 96% RTP to 94% RTP.

Sounds trivial, but that's a 50% INCREASE the house edge, the casinos are taking 6p out of every pound instead of 4p out of every pound (long term on average).

And individual players will feel the effect, not over 100 spins, or 1000 spins perhaps, but add all those thousands of spins together, across session after session after session, and T-RTP will do its thing, like it has for me at 3Dice, and the net effect will be the casinos with the lower RTPs will take a lot more of your money over time.

Vote with your wallet, and refuse to play games at casinos that are running them with lower RTPs.

And what if they all start doing it?

There are other things we can spend our money on for entertainment, is my way of looking at it.

 

[Matti]

Its not clear its going to happen everywhere at all. There are 2 casino groups done it in a year, what makes you think the 100's of other casinos will do it in the future?

There are 3 now since several casinos at Cherrycasino/Comeon has lowered the RTP on several game providers, at least in the Swedish market.

You must also remember all the casinos that are running on lower RTP's from the beginning that don't need to lower them. That is quite a few.

 

[colinsunderland]

There are 3 now since several casinos at Cherrycasino/Comeon has lowered the RTP on several game providers, at least in the Swedish market.

You must also remember all the casinos that are running on lower RTP's from the beginning that don't need to lower them. That is quite a few.

They don't operate in the UK so I can't check them out.
I think the thread is about who are reducing the RTP's more then having lower ones to start with. We know to avoid places like Aspire who offer shit RTP's on games, What I think people have a problem with is, and I certainly do even if others don't, is playing at a casino using the high RTP setting then finding out by chance that they have reduced them. I couldn't care less if they reduce them, as long as they email me or give a pop up when launching the game, so I know not to waste my money there any longer.

 

[shadow123]

Think the new regulations being brought in all the time are the main cause for this in the UK.
Casinos have to employ more people to cope with all the crap,and like any business they are trying
maintain the profit margin, cant really blame them for that.
Not defending them but I dont think its greed, just a shame that the player end up paying the costs.

 

[mack341]

As I'm sure you know yourself mack, it's because the cumulative effect will be massive, let's take a reduction from 96% RTP to 94% RTP.

Sounds trivial, but that's a 50% INCREASE the house edge, the casinos are taking 6p out of every pound instead of 4p out of every pound (long term on average).

And individual players will feel the effect, not over 100 spins, or 1000 spins perhaps, but add all those thousands of spins together, across session after session after session, and T-RTP will do its thing, like it has for me at 3Dice, and the net effect will be the casinos with the lower RTPs will take a lot more of your money over time.

Vote with your wallet, and refuse to play games at casinos that are running them with lower RTPs.

And what if they all start doing it?

There are other things we can spend our money on for entertainment, is my way of looking at it.

I totally agree, I've lost thousands playing 96% slots so reducing the rtp is going to make them much more wallet unfriendly, and if players like me cut back then the casinos could actually lose more in the long run as other hobbies and pastimes are discovered. I also worry about the toxic effect meaner slots could have on addicted players, and I wonder how the slot makers shave that 2% off, from the base game or bonus/bonus frequency? Will they need to increase the teasing and near misses?

I've just come to the end of a 4 week TAB, and during that time video gaming has more than took up the slack for me, just completed assassins creed 4 black flag, they say video games can be bad for your mind but I've been feeling much better in myself and at ease - except for last night trying to finish that damn last mission that takes place in the observatory, died about 10 times before I managed it somehow

Today I went back on raging rhino and was cursing and fuming in no time... so it'll probably be back to gaming I go [btw the ps4 pro was £249 somewhere yesterday with a game Chopley will you buy the new consoles coming out next year or wait for a price drop?]

Edit: I knew I forgot something, apparently netent are looking at making lower rtp versions of their games too. Unless I dreamt that

 

[spiker1977]

On the 22nd of April 2016, the Remote Gaming Regulations (S.L. 438.04) were amended through the publication of Legal Notice 131 of 2016. The amendment introduces new obligations on entities licensed in terms of the Remote Gaming Regulations.

The new regulation 46A requires that specified casino-type games offered under a remote gaming licence issued by the Malta Gaming Authority (MGA) shall abide by a minimum average return to player (RTP) of 92% or any such higher percentage as may be stipulated through the licence condition.

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Thoughts?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I've just come to the end of a 4 week TAB, and during that time video gaming has more than took up the slack for me, just completed assassins creed 4 black flag, they say video games can be bad for your mind but I've been feeling much better in myself and at ease - except for last night trying to finish that damn last mission that takes place in the observatory, died about 10 times before I managed it somehow

Today I went back on raging rhino and was cursing and fuming in no time... so it'll probably be back to gaming I go [btw the ps4 pro was £249 somewhere yesterday with a game Chopley will you buy the new consoles coming out next year or wait for a price drop?]

This is the thing mack, there are loads of other things we can choose to spend our money on, and casinos need to appreciate that for those of us who aren't addicted, but like a gamble, we will just spend our money elsewhere if we start to feel that gambling is taking the piss.

If RTPs drop to 94% or lower across the board, for example, I'll just say 'fuck it' and drop online slots, I like a gamble, but not if I feel like I'm getting rudely rodded up the behind in the process.

Win some, lose some, I'm happy with, playing random games with a house edge means I'll lose in the long run, I'm fine with that. My losses at 3Dice over a million game rounds add up to what you might expect, but I've had a heck of a good run for my money there over many years, feel I've had entertainment along the way, and they treat me well as a customer, which is why I still deposit and play there. (And when I make a withdrawal, it'll be paid within hours, any day of the year.)

As someone like myself who's really into videogames mack, and when it's possible to buy a top-tier, brand new videogame for £50-£60 that offer tens (in not hundreds!) of hours of entertainment, I'm sure you sometimes think to yourself (as I do!), when a £100 deposit vanishes with no significant playtime, fun, or features - 'I'm not really sure that was worth it.....'

Do casinos just want to rely on addicts? Because sometimes, the way they're going about things, particularly with hacking away at RTPs, you do have to wonder......

 

[dunover]

I'M not sure this is all down to casino greed, rather the market conditions in which they operate. We know that margins are skinned to the bone by the amount of (UK especially) closures due to stiff competition and high UK GGR taxes.

At first the bonuses were reduced and capped due to the parachute mechanism which became necessary after the UKGC cash-separation rules. Then taxes rose from 15 to 21%. As well as the exits from the market and closures, we have seen examples like that of Trada amalgamating their platform to reduce overheads.

So the last place for them to go is increasing house edge to remain viable. To that end, the developers will be offering variable RTP's for their games.

You'd all better get used to it, or as Chopley said, if the beer is watery then stop drinking it.

With all due respect to Chopley, 3Dice are in the grey market and won't be subject to the same licensing costs, rules and taxes that other sites are. So it's unfair to compare their RTP offerings with the casinos that are hamstrung by the conditions I mentioned above.

 

[slot_zombie]

I'll carry on for as long as I have games available at factory RTP.

If there comes a point where only lowered RTP is available, then I shall stop playing.

It's bad enough with a 3.5-4% house edge. They are fairly horrendous odds for repetitive, swift games like slots, but we are all conditioned to it. 6% is.. cya

 

[shadow123]

Getting to the state when I am getting paranoid about the RTP of games, checking them before playing.
Anything under 94% I wont to play full stop and will switch to another casino where I know the RTP is higher.
That rules out a lot of games at VS and they losing my revenue because of it.
For most of December I have playing at VS and Ladbrokes, I had a 1k loss limit set at VS which I used up in 10 days but ladbrokes gave me a good profit and I won most of that back there.
Despite what a lot of people think the RTP is important and does make a significant diiference to playtime
and return even over a relativily short period.
I think casions that do manage to retain decent RTP,s will benifit in the long term due to migration of players
from others who have slashed the payouts.
If as seems possible, most or all casinos reduce th RTP,s , it really will be time to pack up

 

[colinsunderland]

On the 22nd of April 2016, the Remote Gaming Regulations (S.L. 438.04) were amended through the publication of Legal Notice 131 of 2016. The amendment introduces new obligations on entities licensed in terms of the Remote Gaming Regulations.

The new regulation 46A requires that specified casino-type games offered under a remote gaming licence issued by the Malta Gaming Authority (MGA) shall abide by a minimum average return to player (RTP) of 92% or any such higher percentage as may be stipulated through the licence condition.

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Thoughts?

Is that still valid? I thought Aspire used the 91% PlaynGo setting under the MGA license (as well as the UK one)? Haven't checked myself, just what I;ve seen posted elsewhere.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Heads up!

Have just noticed Cashmio are using lower RTP for PlaynGo's Wild Frames of 94.5%.

Unusual, as any other game i have checked is on the highest setting and always has been, as far as i know.

Edit: Dunder have Piggy Riches Megaways at 94.72% but this also seems out of context for their usual standard.

 

[Gaz237]

The way I see it. 90% of players know sweet FA about RTP.

So even if the 10% that do, stopped playing, any revenue loss to a Casino would be more than made up by the lower RTP.

Casinos are a business, run for profit. The same as any other business and lower RTP will become uniform across the board for mainstream labels.

 

[slot_zombie]

Actually saw a streamer called out in their chat the other night for playing at and promoting Genesis casinos. His response? "Nah, I don't think RTP matters. It only matters over 10000s of spins and I only do 100 spins before switching games".

There's no arguing with that..

 

[slot_zombie]

The way I see it. 90% of players know sweet FA about RTP.

So even if the 10% that do, stopped playing, any revenue loss to a Casino would be more than made up by the lower RTP.

Casinos are a business, run for profit. The same as any other business and lower RTP will become uniform across the board for mainstream labels.

Maybe 10% know about RTP... And another 20-30% go find a new hobby because they are so disappointed with the play time they're getting... it's not as clear cut.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Actually saw a streamer called out in their chat the other night for playing at and promoting Genesis casinos. His response? "Nah, I don't think RTP matters. It only matters over 10000s of spins and I only do 100 spins before switching games".

There's no arguing with that..

I am inclined to agree but a small part of me wonders how much this does affect us.

There is a % reduction so there will be a loss somehere - now thats a fact you cant argue with.

I wonder when playing a reduced rtp game does it take from the bonus or base game? Lessen the scatter drops to compensate or hinder multipliers or features?

 

[slot_zombie]

Lol. It's 91% no matter how much he switcharoos between games. Never heard anything so daft and ill informed in my life on a stream. But I suspect it's something to do with the 200% streamer bonuses they keep giving him, plus the affiliate commissions.

 

[m0nkeyboy]

Hello, I'm new to the forums so apologies if this is not the right place to post this. But just noticed that piggy riches megaway is running at a lower RTP on Kassu than at casumo and others. I had assumed that as it was Netent that it would be the same across all platforms but guess that as it's a JV with red tiger they have built in different rtp models. It's bloody confusing...

Is there a list of Casino's that do change the RTPs anywhere on the forum? I know of quite a few and once i find them i tend not to play there or if i do just not those games...

 

[bamberfishcake]

Hello, I'm new to the forums so apologies if this is not the right place to post this. But just noticed that piggy riches megaway is running at a lower RTP on Kassu than at casumo and others. I had assumed that as it was Netent that it would be the same across all platforms but guess that as it's a JV with red tiger they have built in different rtp models. It's bloody confusing...

Is there a list of Casino's that do change the RTPs anywhere on the forum? I know of quite a few and once i find them i tend not to play there or if i do just not those games...

Just started a thread regarding UK casinos for this. Your post kick started me into getting it done -

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