Good&Bad Providers when trying to win at slots.

incrediblestuff

SearchingForTheHolyGrail!
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Location
Mostly the Netherlands
Trust me, i've tried :D

And that's just a small sample of my sparse winnings, i think i would do great if i actually had a bankroll, but i'm stuck to very small, sporadic deposits - and have been for years - so this is one of the rare miracle hits i got :p

I just found, during my 2 decade long 'gambling career', that trying the new games as soon as they launch, seems to work well overall: perhaps it's the high volume of spins at launch that increases the chances?
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
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Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
Nothing will change. Providers and casinos are jointly in it to skin players faster.

They claimed :

1. Bonuses were costing too much and reduced them.

2. The regulatory bodies were taxing too much and exited markets.

3. Affiliates were not bringing enough players and stole all their commissions or reduced them significantly.

4. Slot RTPs needed to be reduced and skimmed their players..

As far as I can see... the goal here is to milk everyone at any cost. Some places initiated ALL those changes and yet they will find another avenue to skim.

What about Curacao casinos? They don't have the 'Regulatory' costs or SOW headaches that Maltese or UKGC licenced places do... yet they have opted to run lower RTP versions.

Curacao casinos running on Direx NV have the option to offer the highest percentage. From the evidence I have seen, its NOT Softswiss offering a general RTP ... they make the choice.

At this moment who has their games on the highest RTP across the board?

Twin Casino
Rizk Casino
The Bettsson Group?..?

Nate
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
Nothing will change. Providers and casinos are jointly in it to skin players faster.

They claimed :

1. Bonuses were costing too much and reduced them.

2. The regulatory bodies were taxing too much and exited markets.

3. Affiliates were not bringing enough players and stole all their commissions or reduced them significantly.

4. Slot RTPs needed to be reduced and skimmed their players..

As far as I can see... the goal here is to milk everyone at any cost. Some places initiated ALL those changes and yet they will find another avenue to skim.

What about Curacao casinos? They don't have the 'Regulatory' costs or SOW headaches that Maltese or UKGC licenced places do... yet they have opted to run lower RTP versions.

Curacao casinos running on Direx NV have the option to offer the highest percentage. From the evidence I have seen, its NOT Softswiss offering a general RTP ... they make the choice.

At this moment who has their games on the highest RTP across the board?

Twin Casino
Rizk Casino
The Bettsson Group?..?

Nate
Unibet group, vera&john group, expekt (i think been a while since checked)
Think the come on group offers highest, also been a while since i checked.
Mr green maybe?

Theres no shortage of options to play the highest rtp-versions on the Swedish market atleast, i dont know how it looks on the uk market.

Edit: That said, i do agree with what you are saying.
Everything gets reduced/worse, and somehow they still need to reduce the rtp to be able to stay in business.
I think the insanse amount of casinos is to blame tho.
Theres close to 100 groups with a license on the swedish market, wich probably means its 300-400 casinos since some of them have like 10+ sites under their name.

Nobody needs that many sites to choose from.
And it cant be that horribly hard to make money on the Swedish market since new sites join the Swedish market pretty often.

A purge would be good for both casinos and players.
 
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Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
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sweden
Shameless Bump (bringing up my post)

But i might aswell add something while im here.
So here are some slots with really good rtp.
I did not write the descriptions for the slots, just copy&paste, so if anyone disagrees with something in the descriptions i will have to pull a Trump on this one and take zero responsibilty.

Mega Joker – up to 99% RTP
Mega Joker is a NetEnt classic slot with three reels and fruity symbols. Game’s RTP actually changes depending on the stake level you play at and to reach the best return, you’ll need to bet 10 coins. Additionally, there is a slight skill element to this game as you need to know when to collect the winnings from the Supermeter.

Jackpot 6000 – up to 98.8% RTP
Jackpot 6000 is another classic slot from NetEnt, quite similar to Mega Joker. You’ll also need to play this game at the maximum bet of 10 coins and study the Supermeter strategy a bit to reach the best possible returns. This is a good game for those players who like to be involved and actually able to influence their result at least to some extent.

Chess Mate - -98.7%
Chess Mate is a game from a relatively unknown developer, Multi Slot. This colorful and nicely animated slot offers 15 paylines, a couple of bonus features (including free spins with the win multiplier up to 9x), and very high RTP of 98.7%. Although the game isn’t available at many online casinos, it is definitely worth a try if you come across it.

1429 Uncharted Seas – 98.6%
Developed by Thunderkick, the 1429 Uncharted Seas slot is one of the older games from this developer. While this slot doesn’t bring anything spectacular in terms of graphics or features, its very high RTP of 98.6% makes it worth a few spins.

Monopoly on the Money – up to 98.1%
Developed by Barcrest, Monopoly on the Money is a slot themed after one of the most popular board games ever invented. In the base game, this slot has RTP of just 94% but it is the Big Bet mode where you should be looking as playing in this mode can give you RTP as high as 98.1%.

Bloodsuckers – 98%
The Bloodsuckers slot is another game developed by NetEnt but unlike the ones mentioned previously, this is actually a proper video slot with two different bonuses, 25 paylines across 5 reels, and very low volatility. If you’re into vampire-themed slots as it is, Bloodsuckers is well worth your time with its outstanding RTP of 98%.

Starmania – 97.87%
Created by NextGen Gaming, Starmania will definitely remind you of another well-known game that we don’t even need to mention if you’d ever taken free spins at an online casino. Set among the stats with colorful symbols on the reels, this 10-payline slot pays both ways and features RTP of 97.87%.

Kings of Chicago – 97.8%
We’re coming back to NetEnt and their Kings of Chicago slot, a game entirely based on poker. Instead of classic win combinations, you’ll get paid for making poker hands here, such as trips, straights, flushes, full houses, and quads. If you love poker and casino gambling, this game is a perfect combo for you, especially with its very high RTP of 97.8%.


Big Bad Wolf – 97.4%
Barely making the list of top 10 slot with the best RTP is Quickspin’s Big Bad Wolf. Based on a well-known fairytale, this game can be quite exciting with little pigs turning into wilds and symbols cascading on the reels. Of course, with high RTP of 97.4% and low volatility, this game is a good choice if you’re looking to kill some time without doing the same to your bankroll.
 

bamberfishcake

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
Essex
Great Idea Kroffe, Thanks!

Nice easy thread for the players.

No shortage of casinos in my opinion that pay, have a good enough selection and enough methods and response to play there.

No shortage of casinos that spring a surprise SOW or restrict your play somehow when the goings good.

I dont experience the hardships, it seems some do, finding somewhere that fits the bill in those respects anymore.

The only question between casino A and casino B is the RTP now for me.
 

bamberfishcake

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
Essex
Just a thought but say there has been a shift, no matter how small, of customers from Videoslots to other casinos.

I wonder how much foresight these casinos have to see that the customers will go back, if everyone offers the low level RTP.
 

nikantw

Banned User
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Location
EU
I was thinking: Why is lower RTP good for casinos? Why they make more money from it?

I understand that they double the house edge, but why does it work?
I mean, if all players are in control of their budget and gamble responsibly, doesn't it mean that they will simply deposit the same and play for as long as it lasts? Even if it means they play much less than before?

So, if low RTP works, it must mean that beacause of it players lose control of their play and budget, deposit a lot more and don't play responsibly. That proves low RTP --> Problem Gambling.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Just a thought but say there has been a shift, no matter how small, of customers from Videoslots to other casinos.

I wonder how much foresight these casinos have to see that the customers will go back, if everyone offers the low level RTP.

TBH, I have not seen any shifts from VS, quite the opposite, mostly because the absolute majority of players either doesn't know what RTP is or simply doesn't care. They are still one of the best converters and retainers, although they pay abysmally low commissions to affiliates.

So if 100 are leaving, you'll have 200 joining. Doesn't really bother them that much. You can see very clearly the growth in the battles, the number of players keeps increasing.

These are the numbers for Sweden only, expressed in million SEK revenue! They are the only standalone casino (bet365 has sportsbook) in the TOP10, beating some big groups like Bethard, Hero, 888, GiG and Skill-on-Net who have sometimes over 10 brands operating in Sweden.

1589436405164.png
 
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Flyingslotsman

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Location
Scotland
Unibet group, vera&john group, expekt (i think been a while since checked)
Think the come on group offers highest, also been a while since i checked.
Mr green maybe?

Theres no shortage of options to play the highest rtp-versions on the Swedish market atleast, i dont know how it looks on the uk market.

Edit: That said, i do agree with what you are saying.
Everything gets reduced/worse, and somehow they still need to reduce the rtp to be able to stay in business.
I think the insanse amount of casinos is to blame tho.
Theres close to 100 groups with a license on the swedish market, wich probably means its 300-400 casinos since some of them have like 10+ sites under their name.

Nobody needs that many sites to choose from.
And it cant be that horribly hard to make money on the Swedish market since new sites join the Swedish market pretty often.

A purge would be good for both casinos and players.

Novibet offer higher rtp on most I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong though
 

bamberfishcake

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
Essex
TBH, I have not seen any shifts from VS, quite the opposite, mostly because the absolute majority of players either doesn't know what RTP is or simply doesn't care. They are still one of the best converters and retainers, although they pay abysmally low commissions to affiliates.

So if 100 are leaving, you'll have 200 joining. Doesn't really bother them that much. You can see very clearly the growth in the battles, the number of players keeps increasing.

These are the numbers for Sweden only, expressed in million SEK revenue! They are the only standalone casino (bet365 has sportsbook) in the TOP10, beating some big groups like Bethard, Hero, 888, GiG and Skill-on-Net who have sometimes over 10 brands operating in Sweden.

View attachment 131345

Oh im sure their position in the market has stayed. After all the industry is growing and attracting more people every day. Surprised by Casumo on their drop. Do you know of any reason for that?

I would expect most casinos to be experiencing a rise in numbers through the front of the last few quarters because of industry growth.

Do you really think players dont care Harry? I get that most players dont know but are there that many that really dont care if their casino lowers their payouts?
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Oh im sure their position in the market has stayed. After all the industry is growing and attracting more people every day. Surprised by Casumo on their drop. Do you know of any reason for that?

I would expect most casinos to be experiencing a rise in numbers through the front of the last few quarters because of industry growth.

Do you really think players dont care Harry? I get that most players dont know but are there that many that really dont care if their casino lowers their payouts?

Casumo - SOW :D They have to do something like that in Sweden too. @Kroffe can maybe confirm.

As for caring about RTP.

Let's say we have 100 major forums like CM worldwide (I don't think there are that many), each with 1,000 active members. That is 100,000 people who are informed. Put another 10 million readers/visitors on top who might be informed.

Total number of casino players worldwide, I would venture to say is over 100 million.
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Casumo - SOW :D They have to do something like that in Sweden too. @Kroffe can maybe confirm.

As for caring about RTP.

Let's say we have 100 major forums like CM worldwide (I don't think there are that many), each with 1,000 active members. That is 100,000 people who are informed. Put another 10 million readers/visitors on top who might be informed.

Total number of casino players worldwide, I would venture to say is over 100 million.

Why is it do you think that high rollers, the bulk of income for online casinos i think?, be blase towards RTP?. Is it because they've simply got enough cash and, er, simply don't care? - though, surely if you've massed enough money to be rolling on big stakes, you must have an inclination in your business life to seek the best deal...?

Or do you think it's more along the lines of them simply liking the casino, having a decent reward system in place and thinking 'meh' - i get other things from this casino, so I'm not moving.

Love the chance to prove it but there's a bit of me, being a lazy git, that if i had enough cash and was spending it on my hobby (not just casinos), I might not be arsed to shop around for whatever it is, but simply just buy it because it's convenient and in front of me - wonder if that's the attitude of the above.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Why is it do you think that high rollers, the bulk of income for online casinos i think?, be blase towards RTP?. Is it because they've simply got enough cash and, er, simply don't care? - though, surely if you've massed enough money to be rolling on big stakes, you must have an inclination in your business life to seek the best deal...?

Or do you think it's more along the lines of them simply liking the casino, having a decent reward system in place and thinking 'meh' - i get other things from this casino, so I'm not moving.

Love the chance to prove it but there's a bit of me, being a lazy git, that if i had enough cash and was spending it on my hobby (not just casinos), I might not be arsed to shop around for whatever it is, but simply just buy it because it's convenient and in front of me - wonder if that's the attitude of the above.

Surprisingly or unsurprisingly, the majority of real VIPs does not play slots or just occasionally.

But I wouldn't think that they are too much bothered with 1% or 2% RTP differences. When they play on high-stakes slot machines in Vegas or the like at 1K or 5K a pop (IIRC, the highest I have seen in Vegas was for 10K/spin), they do so with an 80-85% RTP.

The real VIP realm is very different when it comes to loyalty or rewards and a hotly contested business. 5FS at 10p won't cut it there. I've met quite a few on my FL cruises and a 30K Rolex was not the most expensive some of those players got from online casinos for their birthdays.
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Surprisingly or unsurprisingly, the majority of real VIPs does not play slots or just occasionally.

But I wouldn't think that they are too much bothered with 1% or 2% RTP differences. When they play on high-stakes slot machines in Vegas or the like at 1K or 5K a pop (IIRC, the highest I have seen in Vegas was for 10K/spin), they do so with an 80-85% RTP.

The real VIP realm is very different when it comes to loyalty or rewards and a hotly contested business. 5FS at 10p won't cut it there. I've met quite a few on my FL cruises and a 30K Rolex was not the most expensive some of those players got from online casinos for their birthdays.

Have it on good authority this is what Videoslots have as a welcome gift for their VIPs

Screenshot 2020-05-14 at 11.29.59.png
 

Greigssy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Location
Scotland
Logged into Piggy Riches Megaways at William Hill and had a pop message that the help file had been updated.

It had indeed as the RTP is now down at 92.67%, fucking unbelievable it’s difficult enough at 94%.
I fear it’s just the start of every slot’s RTP being reduced as low as they can get them.
 

Greigssy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Location
Scotland
Also how sneaky is that?
“The help has been updated“
Most people won’t know what they’re looking at or they’ll just say whatever and continue to play none the wiser.

The pop should say the RTP has been reduced.
 
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