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General Election 2019 thread

ChopleyIOM said:
In other news the pound is now very close to hitting its lowest point against the dollar since 1985.

Looking at this chart, it seems that something happened in mid-2016, can anyone remember what it is?

View attachment 169714
Click to expand...
Where do you think we go from here then? Despite our differences of opinion over Brexit, you’re an intelligent guy and appreciate your input on political matters.
 
What are the many allegations against Chris Pincher?

There were two complaints against 52-year-old MP over his conduct at the Carlton Club in London’s Piccadilly on 29 June. He was accused by two men of drunkenly groping them. After the matter was reported to and investigated by the UK government chief whip Chris Heaton-Harris, Pincher resigned.

Apologising for his actions, the parliamentarian said that he had “drunk far too much” and had “embarrassed myself and other people”.

However, Pincher is a serial offender. Over the weekend, a string of further sexual harassment allegations emerged along with suggestions that the politician had acquired a degree of notoriety among his colleagues, reports the Independent.

In 2017, he quit the whips’ office after former professional rower and Tory activist Alex Story accused him of making unwanted passes. Back then, Pincher had denied the allegations and an investigation conducted by the party later cleared him of wrongdoing.

In July 2019, he was brought back into the government by Johnson and then made housing minister. He was made deputy chief by Johnson in February this year.

According to a Sunday Times report, a male Tory had informed the whips office then that Pincher had made an unwanted pass at him. Other Conservative MPs have also said that concerns about his behaviour were raised

-------------

While not ideal it doesn't sound like category A offending, maybe more damning stuff will come out, [read up what Joe Biden was accused of doing] the HOC is full of young adults working as staff and helpers, alongside a fair number of 'lively' gay and straight MPs, the resulting problems are predictable.

There was a libdem recruiter and fund raiser a few years back who notoriously took advantage of his status and power, it was in the papers for weeks.
 
Mr_Slot5 said:
A pinch to the bum wouldn’t have been seen as an assault back then that’s my point. Especially when it was a female doing it to a guy. There was a general acceptance in my line of work that it came with the territory and it was a compliment. I never thought anything of it, just got on with my job.

As I said, things are different these days…there’s more awareness etc. And I’m certainly not sticking up for the alleged parliament groper.
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I would've also seen it as a perk of the job! Hardly an action that you'd need years of counselling to get over, male customers clawing female staff that would be different, but again a matter for the venue to deal with rather than calling the police and sex crime squads in.
 
ChopleyIOM said:
In other news the pound is now very close to hitting its lowest point against the dollar since 1985.

Looking at this chart, it seems that something happened in mid-2016, can anyone remember what it is?

View attachment 169714
Click to expand...
I can. It was Sadiq Khan succeeding Boris as London Mayor and wasting no time in turning London into an almighty shithole of a capital city.

Oh. Sorry my bad. It wasn't that.

It was UEFA's threat to disqualify England from Euro 2016. That's it.

Phew. I almost embarrassed myself there. :oops:
 
mack341 said:
Just having a look at the various tory MP twitter acounts, interesting point here, maybe boris is too much of a clique man rather than appointing folk who are suited for the role in question.

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Talking about Andrew Bridgen, did anyone notice that he has had a new hair do and got himself a perm??

bridgen.webp
 
Mr_Slot5 said:
Where do you think we go from here then? Despite our differences of opinion over Brexit, you’re an intelligent guy and appreciate your input on political matters.
Click to expand...

The problem is that Johnson and his Brexit loonies have chucked the UK down the bottom of a well, and when you're stuck at the bottom of a well, your options to fix the situation are limited. (To be clear, I am reserving my anger for the conmen here, not the conned. If you voted Leave then fine, my own dad voted Leave, he believed a lot of what was being said by the Leave campaign, every single word of which has turned out to be total bollocks, whilst pretty much every single aspect of 'Project Fear' has turned out to be true.)

Look at where the UK is now, it all started with Cameron and his referendum, which he called purely to see off Farage and his UKIP headbangers. Then the referendum was lost, Cameron immediately dropped the boiling hot potato and passed it over to his party instead, Theresa May was installed, I'm sure we all remember her 'Red, white and blue Brexit' declaration? Words that literally mean nothing at all.

In fairness to May, at least she grasped the complexities of the problem with Northern Ireland and its unique status within the UK, which is why she refused to agree to a deal that would put a border down the Irish Sea (her 'all UK backstop' was actually a reasonable solution to a very complex problem), Johnson declared it THE WORST DEAL IN HISTORY, said he would get a better deal, deposed May, went to the country with his OVEN READY DEAL, lied his fucking arse off about what his deal actually entailed (including the border down the Irish Sea), and then proceeded to head up the worst government the UK has ever had. (When you think about it, predicating your entire government on a bunch of lies doesn't really set things up very well, does it?)

The wheels have been coming off Brexit since the first day we came out of transition, his government has been mired in sleaze, corruption and dodgy dealings since day one (the PPE scandal alone should have brought him and his government down), he's lied and lied and lied about everything, all the time, until finally his party could take it no more after he sent out a group of patsies armed with more lies about him knowingly hiring a sexual predator.

The UK is a laughing stock on the international stage, our institutions debased, our economy holed below the waterline, our influence in the world diminished and we now have the pathetic sight of Johnson shamefully clinging to power and his £850 per roll wallpaper that he got someone else to pay for, as the Tory party disintegrates around him.

I list all this first to frame the size of the problem we face when it comes to answering your question, 'So where do we go from here then?'

Honestly, it's a hard one to answer, like I said, when you're at the bottom of a well, and the option of someone throwing a rope down to you and climbing out of the well (a full return to the EU) is off the table, and the option of at least having some nice things sent down to the bottom of the well so it isn't as miserable (a return to the SM and CU) is also off the table because it will be a betrayal of the well's purity - then what can you do?

If we can't even agree on the root problem (the problem is Brexit, and specifically the ultra-hard version of it that the UK pursued), then how can you start to fix it?

At a minimum Johnson needs to be gone ASAP, the Tories need to get rid of him and install (a) A sane leader and (b) A sane cabinet, Johnson didn't want anyone competent or even remotely willing to challenge him in the cabinet. The Tories do have some decent people on their back benches, so let's get them in place and try to steady the ship a bit.

Then we need to stop sabre-rattling with the EU, and start to talk to them like our friends and allies rather than our sworn enemies, if there's one thing in the world that the war in Ukraine has taught us, it's that the boogeymen aren't the French and the Germans and the Polish, there's still a very hostile, massive superpower in our midst that can and will start wars in mainland Europe.

Economically speaking we're in a tough spot, the UK economy is bleeding out tens of billions of pounds per year thanks to Brexit, and the bleeding isn't going to stop until we at the very least rejoin the SM and CU, but any political party that even suggested that would get shredded with BREXIT BETRAYAL claims, which is why Labour won't go anywhere near the pledge.

So like I said, we're down the bottom of a well, and a lot of people are still insisting they like it at the bottom of the well and it's what they voted for, so for now, I'm very much afraid to say, all we can do is look up and see the sunshine we can't reach.
 
Sorry I cannot bring myself to read all the above, I saw the word Brexit and stopped. Brexit has been done, this is not Scotland where NeverEndums are of the order of the day.

We just need a competent government in place. As it stands NO party IMO is worthy of holding office currently, including the opposition that is still tarred by several years being led by Corbyn.

At least Corbyn wasn't elected in 2019, as god forbid what state the country would be in today.

As for new PM from the Tory party. IMO the most pressing issue facing the country above anything else is Russia and the war in Ukraine. We need someone like Ben Wallace to take over, or at least Wallace staying in his role at DoD.

Cost of living, price of petrol, potential food shortages etc, all flows from what is happening in Ukraine. Brexit is done, this is not a Brexit issue.
 
Webzcas said:
Sorry I cannot bring myself to read all the above, I saw the word Brexit and stopped. Brexit has been done, this is not Scotland where NeverEndums are of the order of the day.

We just need a competent government in place. As it stands NO party IMO is worthy of holding office currently, including the opposition that is still tarred by several years being led by Corbyn.

At least Corbyn wasn't elected in 2019, as god forbid what state the country would be in today.

As for new PM from the Tory party. IMO the most pressing issue facing the country above anything else is Russia and the war in Ukraine. We need someone like Ben Wallace to take over, or at least Wallace staying in his role at DoD.

Cost of living, price of petrol, potential food shortages etc, all flows from what is happening in Ukraine. Brexit is done, this is not a Brexit issue.
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Yeah totally done, so much so that just last week the UK was preparing to break international law over the Northern Ireland Protocol, which was part of the Brexit deal.

It doesn't 'all' flow from the war in Ukraine, Brexit is also a contributing factor, sticking your fingers in your ears and going 'Laaa laaa laaa I can't hear you' won't change reality.
 
goatwack said:
I don't think anyone's cheering and frothing at the mouth over Johnson going, they just want him gone, for the good of the country, party and political processes to take on some form of normalcy. Him holding everyone to ransom is what's going to get people irate, if anything.

It'll be a while before we see anything resembling harmonious UK politics, you'd have to start with the calibre of politicians themselves, to have ones that have an air of being capable in their job minus the Social Media celebrity and alienating core principles.

I'd rather see grey, boring ministers good at their jobs, with an equally credible Opposition beholden to integrity and respect, rather than the show ponies of today, who appear more like self-serving businessmen with a brand to protect.

Looking at glimpses of Major's PMQs vs Smith in the mid-'90s was how I remember British politics to be, but it seems somewhere along the way we lost that healthy respect. You can kiss those days goodbye I'm afraid :cool:
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You sure about that? I know of at least one person in this topic that will be doing just that!
 
So we have a soon to commence leadership election. One thing is clear, is that the grass roots membership who will vote on the final two put forward by the parliamentary party, will not support and put into number 10 a Remainer. So that rules out the likes of Hunt, thankfully :)

This also means, we are very much likely to see the back of finally from front line politics, the likes of Dorries, Mogg, Patel and Raab. This is a win all round for the country as a whole.

Boris going, also IMO removes the Scottish Nationalists secret weapon, which is Boris, who is universally hated by pretty much everyone north of Carlisle. So the likelihood of a PretendyRef happening anytime soon, has been pretty much squashed. - Also I wonder if the media are now going to shine a spotlight on Blackford supporting Grady.....

Unfortunately the state of British politics at the moment is a car crash. If I had a vote ( I don't ! ) I would go for someone like Ben Wallace or Penny Mordaunt to steady the ship. Also and just to piss off the Russians and Lavrov in particular, I wouldn't even mind Liz Truss :)

But the fact remains, MP's and all parties need to sort their collective %^%$ out!
 
Farage at 500-1 to become next leader. And as much as we all love Mordaunt in her swimsuit, it's looking like Sunak's getting the position he's basically been prepared for over the last couple of years.

Knowing the Green Tory Party (aka the 'NotConservatives') don't be terribly surprised if they vote Boris back in, on the back of one of his foppish charm assaults, something 'D.U.D.E'-esque. Maybe B.R.I.T? Boris Returning Is Terrific
 
Webzcas said:
Sorry I cannot bring myself to read all the above, I saw the word Brexit and stopped. Brexit has been done, this is not Scotland where NeverEndums are of the order of the day.

We just need a competent government in place. As it stands NO party IMO is worthy of holding office currently, including the opposition that is still tarred by several years being led by Corbyn.

At least Corbyn wasn't elected in 2019, as god forbid what state the country would be in today.

As for new PM from the Tory party. IMO the most pressing issue facing the country above anything else is Russia and the war in Ukraine. We need someone like Ben Wallace to take over, or at least Wallace staying in his role at DoD.

Cost of living, price of petrol, potential food shortages etc, all flows from what is happening in Ukraine. Brexit is done, this is not a Brexit issue.
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makes me laugh when people wonder what state the country would be in with corbyn ? surely not as bad as it is now?
 
kennygamerboy said:
makes me laugh when people wonder what state the country would be in with corbyn ? surely not as bad as it is now?
Click to expand...

Twelve years the Tories have had now, twelve years. Anyone who's still going 'BUT CORBIN AND FLABBOTT THOUGH, LIEBOR LOLS' needs to give their head a good hard wobble.

Whatever you see around you that you don't like and is shit (and fuck knows there's a lot of it), is on Cameron, May, Johnson, and their governments.
 
ChopleyIOM said:
Twelve years the Tories have had now, twelve years. Anyone who's still going 'BUT CORBIN AND FLABBOTT THOUGH, LIEBOR LOLS' needs to give their head a good hard wobble.

Whatever you see around you that you don't like and is shit (and fuck knows there's a lot of it), is on Cameron, May, Johnson, and their governments.
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Well of them "baddies" had the electorate decide they were the best to govern this country. If your beloved Labour party was the better party, then surely the electorate would have voted them in. But they, the electorate can't be that educated as you and having the benefit of hindsight that you have :cheers:
 
This is a better take on reality I dare to suggest [than chop's post above], we have had a continuation of blairism more or less. Not totally surprising as many in the labour movement saw him as some kind of tory in disguise.

daily telegraph nov 2021:

Who really runs Britain? The Conservative Party might keep winning elections, and the prevailing narrative is that incompetent Tory Brexiteers are running the country into the gutter. But in the nation’s quangos and regulators, at the top of our universities and cultural institutions, in the BBC and the charity sector, there is barely a conservative to be found. After 11 years of Tory rule, a soft-Left Blairite elite remains firmly in control. It is both scandalous and impressive. Despite the ejection of new Labour, Brexit, and the landslide election of a Right-wing populist government, the balance of power rests firmly with the old guard.

The Tories have made little progress in reining in the “Blob”. Whitehall sinks every project that insults its sensibilities – most recently the Prime Minister’s gumptious hopes to make Britain the Qatar of hydrogen. And so much for the bonfire of the quangos; in fact, their spending has tripled under the Tories.

The problem is partly that the power of the soft Left establishment is even stickier than many Brexiteers imagined. It has rigged the system by elevating “process” to an almost spiritual status, while subjectively defining the qualities candidates need to succeed.
This includes the gold-standard ideal of “objectivity”, or “impartiality”. The meaning of these words has been reinvented for the post-modern era, from a commitment to logically revealed truth to a “balanced” positioning between extremities, which tends to mean a commitment to a socially liberal form of technocratic “centrism”. Equally, since Blair, the definition of “diversity” has been restricted to refer only to professional women and ethnic minorities, who conveniently tend towards a centre-Left worldview, rather than greater openness to the working-class or laymen.

But the Tories cannot do nothing. The institutional resistance of public bodies to conservative policies will only get worse over time. Leaving these bodies in the hands of the same old figures also effectively overrules the democratic rejection of the elite old guard that Brexit embodied. The public will not put up indefinitely with being ruled by a professional elite that does not see the world like them.
 
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interlog said:
Well of them "baddies" had the electorate decide they were the best to govern this country. If your beloved Labour party was the better party, then surely the electorate would have voted them in. But they, the electorate can't be that educated as you and having the benefit of hindsight that you have :cheers:
Click to expand...

It doesn't take hindsight to work out the Tories simply line their own pockets and those of the rich when they're in power, same as you don't need hindsight to work out Brexit is a big fat pile of shit.

There's a big enough evidence trail going back years here at CM in the Brexit thread, whereby damn near every single thing I was posting about saying 'this is going to be a load of crap once we've left and are out of transition' has, erm, turned out to be a load of crap now we've left and are out of transition.

Like the people who are getting all upset about the dinghies still coming over the English channel even though we've TAKEN BACK CONTROL of our borders, I was posting years ago saying, 'You know Brexit isn't going to make any difference to this right? And that if anything it'll just make things even worse because we'll lose access to the reciprocal EU agreements we have?'

So that's literally the exact opposite of hindsight, but hey man, you do you.
 
It all comes down to balancing one's own 'wishes' and what's perceived 'best for the country'. The notion in this age that every voter adheres to being extreme Left or Right is what's funny.

I could just as happily agree with some of Labour's pledges as I would with any other party. I could want free-spending on the economy just as much as wanting politicians to get some semblance of control on our borders etc.....it doesn't have to be 'absolutes'.

Fact is the big two are woefully inept to govern this country, with not a single relatable figurehead in either. I'd also say the Tories of the Cameron era were a different breed to the current lot, as are Labour with their Starmer/ Rayner combo, compared to the Corbyn/ Abbott era.

I don't don't believe any of the current crop are anything but self-obsessed grifters who want to score Twitter Points. And for that reason alone I wouldn't even entertain the idea of even bothering to vote at the next G.E. I'll sit this one out I think ?
 
mack341 said:
This is a better take on reality I dare to suggest [than chop's post above], we have had a continuation of blairism more or less. Not totally surprising as many in the labour movement saw him as some kind of tory in disguise.

daily telegraph nov 2021:

Who really runs Britain? The Conservative Party might keep winning elections, and the prevailing narrative is that incompetent Tory Brexiteers are running the country into the gutter. But in the nation’s quangos and regulators, at the top of our universities and cultural institutions, in the BBC and the charity sector, there is barely a conservative to be found. After 11 years of Tory rule, a soft-Left Blairite elite remains firmly in control. It is both scandalous and impressive. Despite the ejection of new Labour, Brexit, and the landslide election of a Right-wing populist government, the balance of power rests firmly with the old guard.

The Tories have made little progress in reining in the “Blob”. Whitehall sinks every project that insults its sensibilities – most recently the Prime Minister’s gumptious hopes to make Britain the Qatar of hydrogen. And so much for the bonfire of the quangos; in fact, their spending has tripled under the Tories.

The problem is partly that the power of the soft Left establishment is even stickier than many Brexiteers imagined. It has rigged the system by elevating “process” to an almost spiritual status, while subjectively defining the qualities candidates need to succeed.
This includes the gold-standard ideal of “objectivity”, or “impartiality”. The meaning of these words has been reinvented for the post-modern era, from a commitment to logically revealed truth to a “balanced” positioning between extremities, which tends to mean a commitment to a socially liberal form of technocratic “centrism”. Equally, since Blair, the definition of “diversity” has been restricted to refer only to professional women and ethnic minorities, who conveniently tend towards a centre-Left worldview, rather than greater openness to the working-class or laymen.

But the Tories cannot do nothing. The institutional resistance of public bodies to conservative policies will only get worse over time. Leaving these bodies in the hands of the same old figures also effectively overrules the democratic rejection of the elite old guard that Brexit embodied. The public will not put up indefinitely with being ruled by a professional elite that does not see the world like them.
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Always, always, always someone else's fault isn't it?

Last I heard the BBC and charities don't get to pass laws in parliament, only the government can do that. And we've had twelve years of unbroken Tory rule at this point.

I can well understand the Telegraph looking around, realising that a lot of stuff is in an absolutely dire state, and deciding that they need someone to blame who isn't the Tory governments we've had twelve years of, especially since its billionaire owners the Barclay Brothers have a vested financial interest in keeping the party of the rich in power.

Me though, on balance, I'll blame, y'know, the actual bloody government.
 
ChopleyIOM said:
Always, always, always someone else's fault isn't it?

Last I heard the BBC and charities don't get to pass laws in parliament, only the government can do that. And we've had twelve years of unbroken Tory rule at this point.

I can well understand the Telegraph looking around, realising that a lot of stuff is in an absolutely dire state, and deciding that they need someone to blame who isn't the Tory governments we've had twelve years of, especially since its billionaire owners the Barclay Brothers have a vested financial interest in keeping the party of the rich in power.

Me though, on balance, I'll blame, y'know, the actual bloody government.
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"Whitehall sinks every project that insults its sensibilities" so nothing much in effect changes without their agreement, let's see if the NI protocol change is now shelved.

I do blame the govt as well, they're certainly not great but the opposition sat opposite look a lot worse, starmer has been chosen on purpose to give them an air of professionalism and moderation.

In 2002, twelve years after Margaret Thatcher left office, she was asked at a dinner what was her greatest achievement. Thatcher replied: “Tony Blair and New Labour. We forced our opponents to change their minds.”
 
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Of course in politics you'll always have speculative musings on what might have been, on how things could have turned out if the shoe was on the other foot, it's only natural, if completely subjective.

Though looking at the Tories' last twelve years in power, I haven't seen much in the way of Opposition. For a while in the mid-2010s it looked like Corbyn had reversed the tide after May's 'sure-shot' G.E ignominy, but instead of seizing on it, all I saw was Labour reduce Corbyn to rubble, and what followed can only be called comical.

Transition followed with antisemitism rearing up in the ranks, Twitter breaches, soccer mom leadership challenges and the eventual 'calming' effect of Keir Starmer, who's had the impetus and drive of a wet weekend.

It's one thing to claim the Tories have been getting away with murder for all this time, but in my mind, the Opposition has to take account of the fact that they've not even remotely resembled a united front, nor have they come anywhere close to deposing the Cons. In fact, I'd say they've regressed since Brown (clearly), and even Corbyn himself.

Where's the push to get the Government held up to task, to 'up their game'?

I think most are aware of the Eton elite forming their own clubhouse, but the truth is there's no one to challenge their position - and this is why we've had an autocracy for well over a decade now. Time the Opposition quit their whining and actually get back to getting the public to vote for them. Or brace yourself for another ten years of Sunak, it's quite simple!
 
mack341 said:
"Whitehall sinks every project that insults its sensibilities" so nothing much in effect changes without their agreement, let's see if the NI protocol change is now shelved.

I do blame the govt as well, they're certainly not great but the opposition sat opposite look a lot worse, starmer has been chosen on purpose to give them an air of professionalism and moderation.

In 2002, twelve years after Margaret Thatcher left office, she was asked at a dinner what was her greatest achievement. Thatcher replied: “Tony Blair and New Labour. We forced our opponents to change their minds.”
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I've seen posts saying Boris Johnson is the worst Prime Minister we've had. He isn't.

That accolade goes to Blair and his New Labour government. They set the foundations for all of this division we see now. Without an unchecked open door policy and the signing of a treaty that brought us closer to the EU (without referendum) the EU ref of 2016 would never have happened. There wouldn't have been a call for one.

The legacy of New Labour was to ruin this country for generations in terms of harmony and togetherness. At least there is a section of people that see this. Yes Blair may have done some good things, but it doesn't negate the absolute nightmare he set in motion.

It's saddening but I'm not seeing how things get better any time soon. The only slight bit of common ground has been 'Boris is a liability' but now he's resigned, people are fleeing back to their original standpoints. Just because Boris is going, it doesn't mean things are going to get better.
 
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Mr_Slot5 said:
I've seen posts saying Boris Johnson is the worst Prime Minister we've had. He isn't close.

That accolade goes to Blair and his New Labour government. They set the foundations for all of this division we see now. Without an unchecked open door policy and the signing of a treaty that brought us closer to the EU (without referendum) the EU ref of 2016 would never have happened. There wouldn't have been a call for one.


The legacy of New Labour was to ruin this country for generations. At least there is a section of people that see this. Yes Blair may have done some good things, but it doesn't negate the absolute nightmare he set in motion.
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Also many of the labour loyalists will not only be unable to see the societal damage right in front of their eyes, [say from the 90s compared to the 2000's ] but blame the tories getting in in 2010 or the 2008 crash as the reason why their utopia policies didn't quite work out in the end. And they want to win power in order to have another go :eek2:

Neoliberal economics and levelling up don't go together, it's never going to happen, I think it was T.Blair who once said he wanted the UK to become a high wage, high education scandi type country - what with 70 odd million and growing on a small island. A total pipe dream: low wage, low education and more poverty and social problems was where we were actually heading [real wage growth has been stagnant for about 20 years, and despite the boom in university education, standards were gradually dumbed down imo].

The tories were very tired in 97 and lots of sleaze stories had accumulated, but it was a saner country where you could see your GP, get your child into the local school, go into an actual police station to report something or get help etc... the list would go on and on.
 
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mack341 said:
Also many of the labour loyalists will not only be unable to see the societal damage right in front of their eyes, [say from the 90s compared to the 2000's ] but blame the tories getting in in 2010 or the 2008 crash as the reason why their utopia policies didn't quite work out in the end. And they want to win power in order to have another go :eek2:

Neoliberal economics and levelling up don't go together, it's never going to happen, I think it was T.Blair who once said he wanted the UK to become a high wage, high education scandi type country - what with 70 odd million and growing on a small island. A total pipe dream: low wage, low education and more poverty and social problems was where we were actually heading [real wage growth has been stagnant for about 20 years, and despite the boom in university education, standards were gradually dumbed down imo].

The tories were very tired in 97 and lots of sleaze stories had accumulated, but it was a saner country where you could see your GP, get your child into the local school, go into an actual police station to report something or get help etc... the list would go on and on.
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Norway is a high wage and education country for sure. They have very strict immigration policy compared to somewhere such as the UK. I don't think they have issues filling the jobs that 'nobody wants to do' because these workers are paid a good wage for the toil. Many countries outside of the core EU nations have policies which state you have to be able to financially support yourself to be able to reside there. As it should be.
 
mcgameboy said:
He'll return like the foul smelling narcissistic virtue-signalling lying c*** that he is soon enough.
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Probably. But nice to have a break and follow world politics...we need a summer break :p
 
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There's a very good read about New Labour and immigration here. TL: DR they fucked up by not imposing transitional controls on EU workers coming to the UK when Poland, Romania and the other Eastern European countries joined the EU.

It wasn't a deliberate attempt to 'flood the UK' with immigrants, but they got their numbers wrong, and made some incorrect assumptions. (12 of the 15 EU states at the time did impose transitional controls.)

Many Labour politicians from the time admit they made a mistake.

Excellent read, recommended.

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ChopleyIOM said:
It doesn't take hindsight to work out the Tories simply line their own pockets and those of the rich when they're in power, same as you don't need hindsight to work out Brexit is a big fat pile of shit.

There's a big enough evidence trail going back years here at CM in the Brexit thread, whereby damn near every single thing I was posting about saying 'this is going to be a load of crap once we've left and are out of transition' has, erm, turned out to be a load of crap now we've left and are out of transition.

Like the people who are getting all upset about the dinghies still coming over the English channel even though we've TAKEN BACK CONTROL of our borders, I was posting years ago saying, 'You know Brexit isn't going to make any difference to this right? And that if anything it'll just make things even worse because we'll lose access to the reciprocal EU agreements we have?'

So that's literally the exact opposite of hindsight, but hey man, you do you.
Click to expand...
Well, having just come back from 4 days in Dam, what Brexit issues did I have? Border controls? Done at point of leaving in UK by French or Dutch officials same as before. Still an hour ahead of GMT? Yes. Was there a Eurostar train mess? Yes, but not on the UK side. Did the bastard go 300kmh in the UK as well as France, Belgium and Holland? Yes. Any lorries queueing? None I saw. Ever checked out the price of basic foods in the EU compared to the UK? Try 50% more to more than double the price. Or if in the rip-off zone of Dam try 7 Euros for a 150ml can of Nivea men's deodorant which would be £1 on a good day or £1.99 at the worst in the UK. So 3-6x the price. Or £2.25 for a bag of Haribos compared to 99p in the UK. 3 euros for a 250ml draught beer which is 1/4 froth (not allowed in the UK due to our 'fill lines') which works out about £6 a pint. Fuel is about the same price as here, 2.20 euros a litre I saw.

Trust me, many people in the UK don't get how cheap supermarkets and food is compared to other countries, by far the cheapest in Europe pro-rata. And still is.
 
dunover said:
Well, having just come back from 4 days in Dam, what Brexit issues did I have? Border controls? Done at point of leaving in UK by French or Dutch officials same as before. Still an hour ahead of GMT? Yes. Was there a Eurostar train mess? Yes, but not on the UK side. Did the bastard go 300kmh in the UK as well as France, Belgium and Holland? Yes. Any lorries queueing? None I saw. Ever checked out the price of basic foods in the EU compared to the UK? Try 50% more to more than double the price. Or if in the rip-off zone of Dam try 7 Euros for a 150ml can of Nivea men's deodorant which would be £1 on a good day or £1.99 at the worst in the UK. So 3-6x the price. Or £2.25 for a bag of Haribos compared to 99p in the UK. 3 euros for a 250ml draught beer which is 1/4 froth (not allowed in the UK due to our 'fill lines') which works out about £6 a pint. Fuel is about the same price as here, 2.20 euros a litre I saw.

Trust me, many people in the UK don't get how cheap supermarkets and food is compared to other countries, by far the cheapest in Europe pro-rata. And still is.
Click to expand...

'I had a short break to a European country and it went OK, some things are expensive there, yay Brexit'.

I think this can go up there in the pantheon of ALL TIME DUNOVER BREXIT WINS from last December where you gloating over the fact you'd managed to go shopping and buy food.
 

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