Game providers have a reason to rig slots

[Bloatgoat]

Guess that most of people who want to get rich, would pass online and landbased casinos as investing instruments.

Well i actually considered that, years ago. But i skipped from doing so because the casino in Holland has a registration system, meaning that every visit of me would be getting noted. If i started to visit casino after casino in various places it was just a matter of time before they would pick me apart. Kind of the attention i woud'nt draw upon myself. But yes, i had a way to make money. And on avg i did it with 2 to 4 grand a week. I had to visit various casino's for it because i coud'nt attempt that on just one.

Its just that i have a thing with computers; and i can read screens. And for some reason i always had a very excellent intuition when it comes down to playing slots. It brought me winning a brand new car, a holliday cheque worth of 7500 and the highest peaking point at leaving the casino with 16k cash + security to my car. I was known there and i had a VIP that made me free parking(s) in Amsterdam, had all of my friends drink on the house (lol) and had every dine on the menu for free. I mean at night we just went there to have some seafood and leave again. Overall i was ahead in landbased, considering the extra's i got along with it.

 

[trancemonkey]

So if the total rtp is exactly the same, there is no need to disclose that the rtp may be distributed differently based on stake?
Like your example, making the game less volatile on higher stakes would most likely mean getting those super wins (several 1000x) would be alot harder.
It could be like playing a completely different slot more or less.

in theory yes. I think you'll find in the near future games providers will have to give more Information about games if and when they change, and information like this may be something they need to share (i.e if profile changes by stake).

I would certainly have no issue in telling the player the profile is more / less volatile as they stake up / down

 

[Masquerade67]

I posted this on another thread (with a question as to why Blueprint would send this info to the client) but the gamble distribution on 'The Goonies' seems to differ depending on stake.

£10 Demo:
<PlayFeature type=“FEATURE_GAMBLE” finalWin=“130.00”>
<GambleInfo type=“FEATURE_GAMBLE” state=“CLOSED” action=“GAMBLE” bankedWinnings=“0.00” winnings=“130.00” currentLevel=“1” targetLevel=“2” maxGambleLevel=“5” gambleChance=“54.18,35.53,25.99,12.28” totalWinnings=“130.00” />
<PrevGambleInfo type=“STANDARD” state=“INIT” action=“INIT” bankedWinnings=“0.00” currentLevel=“1” targetLevel=“1” maxGambleLevel=“5” gambleChance=“54.18,35.53,25.99,12.28” totalWinnings=“0.00” />
</PlayFeature>

£1 Demo:
<PlayFeature type=“FEATURE_GAMBLE” finalWin=“6.00”>
<GambleInfo type=“FEATURE_GAMBLE” state=“CLOSED” action=“GAMBLE” bankedWinnings=“0.00” winnings=“6.00” currentLevel=“0” targetLevel=“1” maxGambleLevel=“5” gambleChance=“51.3,30.27,20.6,15.36,7.47” totalWinnings=“6.00” />
<PrevGambleInfo type=“STANDARD” state=“INIT” action=“INIT” bankedWinnings=“0.00” currentLevel=“0” targetLevel=“0” maxGambleLevel=“5” gambleChance=“51.3,30.27,20.6,15.36,7.47” totalWinnings=“0.00” />
</PlayFeature>

Maybe they were toying with the idea of a pie-slice gamble ?

 

[Slottery]

Well i actually considered that, years ago. But i skipped from doing so because the casino in Holland has a registration system, meaning that every visit of me would be getting noted. If i started to visit casino after casino in various places it was just a matter of time before they would pick me apart. Kind of the attention i woud'nt draw upon myself. But yes, i had a way to make money. And on avg i did it with 2 to 4 grand a week. I had to visit various casino's for it because i coud'nt attempt that on just one.

Its just that i have a thing with computers; and i can read screens. And for some reason i always had a very excellent intuition when it comes down to playing slots. It brought me winning a brand new car, a holliday cheque worth of 7500 and the highest peaking point at leaving the casino with 16k cash + security to my car. I was known there and i had a VIP that made me free parking(s) in Amsterdam, had all of my friends drink on the house (lol) and had every dine on the menu for free. I mean at night we just went there to have some seafood and leave again. Overall i was ahead in landbased, considering the extra's i got along with it.

Sure, there's no need that all players would have lifetime loss, there are some who are winning, as long house get it % it doesn't matter if person X win and person Y lose.

We should go for pint when in Amsterdam (4-6 times a year), haven't been in casino there for a while and in that city there are many other nice ways to spend your money than gambling

 

[Kroffe]

in theory yes. I think you'll find in the near future games providers will have to give more Information about games if and when they change, and information like this may be something they need to share (i.e if profile changes by stake).

I would certainly have no issue in telling the player the profile is more / less volatile as they stake up / down

I think its crazy that its not a legal requirement to tell players this now.
And it shouldnt be something hidden away in a helpfile either, it should be pop-ups on the game telling you things are changing.

What set slots apart besides graphics is how volatile they are, and allowing that to be changed without informing the player is insane.

Is there any way at all for someone to get this information now?
I would be really interested in wich providers do this, and on what slots.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Sure, there's no need that all players would have lifetime loss, there are some who are winning, as long house get it % it doesn't matter if person X win and person Y lose.

We should go for pint when in Amsterdam (4-6 times a year), haven't been in casino there for a while and in that city there are many other nice ways to spend your money than gambling

I dont live in Holland these days anymore, but being born and raised there Amsterdam is no other city to me like Rotterdam or The Hague is. I was weekly in that city, usually lots of client relations buildup. Sometimes we have a go, many times a (free) dinner on the house.

But the regulations in Holland in "Holland Casino" are tight. Your being registered when you go in, the amount of times you visit overal and if you play by players club or card, they could estimate what your average spending into a casino is.

 

[trancemonkey]

I think its crazy that its not a legal requirement to tell players this now.
And it shouldnt be something hidden away in a helpfile either, it should be pop-ups on the game telling you things are changing.

What set slots apart besides graphics is how volatile they are, and allowing that to be changed without informing the player is insane.

Is there any way at all for someone to get this information now?
I would be really interested in wich providers do this, and on what slots.

Nope.

 

[dunover]

Well i actually considered that, years ago. But i skipped from doing so because the casino in Holland has a registration system, meaning that every visit of me would be getting noted. If i started to visit casino after casino in various places it was just a matter of time before they would pick me apart. Kind of the attention i woud'nt draw upon myself. But yes, i had a way to make money. And on avg i did it with 2 to 4 grand a week. I had to visit various casino's for it because i coud'nt attempt that on just one.

Its just that i have a thing with computers; and i can read screens. And for some reason i always had a very excellent intuition when it comes down to playing slots. It brought me winning a brand new car, a holliday cheque worth of 7500 and the highest peaking point at leaving the casino with 16k cash + security to my car. I was known there and i had a VIP that made me free parking(s) in Amsterdam, had all of my friends drink on the house (lol) and had every dine on the menu for free. I mean at night we just went there to have some seafood and leave again. Overall i was ahead in landbased, considering the extra's i got along with it.

If you're talking about that Holland Casino, all I ever got there was 3 bonus guarantees on the Rapist and a warm f*cking coke. After the privilege of queueing 10 minutes to get in and paying 5 bastard euros just to go and lose more euros.

 

[andym]

It's very easily explained by statistics and probability... there are big wins in most games, you just have to be lucky enough to hit them. If you play long enough, you will likely hit one - or hopefully, more than one!

Does it happen every time? If so, please put 200 euros in and video your session - so i can go to that casino and empty it of all it's money

Remember, you are much more likely to notice a big win when it gets you out of jail (i.e close to losing everything) than you are if you have only just started because of the sense of relief it gives you (as well as excitement)...

I wonder if you will answer this question that others refuse to answer:

Do you think that all the providers conspire, against the law and at risk of losing their entire business if caught, in order to compensate games when random games behave EXACTLY as you think compensated games do just through probability?

It would be easy to prove btw - record every single session you have and just note down all wins over, say, 20x. If you can prove that you get more of these when your balance is low vs when your balance is high, then boom - go to the Daily Mail However, my guess (sorry, my knowledge) is that you will see no correlation between balance and profile.

If SG or IGT were caught doing anything like that, they would instantly lose their Nevada licence. Lose that, and all other regulators will follow suit. Bye bye multi-billion dollar businesses. And for what? It makes no sense whatsoever - i get the cynics in people thinking "of course they do it, money is involved" but if you gave some serious thought to what you're actually positing, it makes zero sense.

nope. They don’t do that EVERYTIME. That’s why we cannot proof that. They know exactly that. And also you. That’s why you throwing out that argument over and over again.
and yes, what I think is that they found a brilliant way to make money. because with their settings it’s impossible to proof them wrong. You cannot saythey are cheating because you have a Low RTP. You cannot say that It’s suspicious that you see mega wins only on very low stakes. You cannot say that there is no slotrtp but a casinortp. Everything you cannot proof as it happens not everytime.

 

[andym]

Use Slottracker - It will do it for you.
EDIT (typo lol)

I know. But that should be a service from a casino to tell you that. rizk refused to send me anything else like my list of deposits and withdraws. When I said that I can’t calculate anything here they said that conversation ends for them there. I have all mails as a proof. That’s crazy when I see here that high rating from their site here

 

[deleted_user-20231116]

I know. But that should be a service from a casino to tell you that. rizk refused to send me anything else like my list of deposits and withdraws. When I said that I can’t calculate anything here they said that conversation ends for them there. I have all mails as a proof. That’s crazy when I see here that high rating from their site here

Well Rizk has the kind of support that automatically assumes you have a gambling issue when you talk to them, so i'm not too surprised.

 

[trancemonkey]

nope. They don’t do that EVERYTIME. That’s why we cannot proof that. They know exactly that. And also you. That’s why you throwing out that argument over and over again.
and yes, what I think is that they found a brilliant way to make money. because with their settings it’s impossible to proof them wrong. You cannot saythey are cheating because you have a Low RTP. You cannot say that It’s suspicious that you see mega wins only on very low stakes. You cannot say that there is no slotrtp but a casinortp. Everything you cannot proof as it happens

So is it random as to when it happens?

 

[Bloatgoat]

So is it random as to when it happens?

In another thread, you wrote that the RTP will proberly be lowered due to the drop in income for casino's and providers since covid kicked in. But yeah. Thats exactly the point.

They can and will put it in their favor when they want to. And because of the millions of spins rtp approach, nobody is ever going to come up with proof claiming it's not solid as we're presented.

Like last night i worked my ass off the whole day and evening. Time for a beer and my favorite slots on 3 various casino's. Ditched in 200 in total spread over 3 casino's, gone in just 20 minutes.

I think to myself; what is this shit, seriously. 40 cents stakes and still getting fisted all over the place. What a great random concept they have. What a great form of entertainment, being robbed in barely 20 minutes of 200 euro.

The more and more this happens to me, the less i want from it. How can you not be alufoiled going through such gambling experiences online. All these arguments about online being better, more in favor for the player, more wins, is straight bullshit.

And if you want proof, please i invite you over to come with me one day. I'd love to show you different.

 

[Playford7]

In another thread, you wrote that the RTP will proberly be lowered due to the drop in income for casino's and providers since covid kicked in. But yeah. Thats exactly the point.

They can and will put it in their favor when they want to. And because of the millions of spins rtp approach, nobody is ever going to come up with proof claiming it's not solid as we're presented.

Like last night i worked my ass off the whole day and evening. Time for a beer and my favorite slots on 3 various casino's. Ditched in 200 in total spread over 3 casino's, gone in just 20 minutes.

I think to myself; what is this shit, seriously. 40 cents stakes and still getting fisted all over the place. What a great random concept they have. What a great form of entertainment, being robbed in barely 20 minutes of 200 euro.

The more and more this happens to me, the less i want from it. How can you not be alufoiled going through such gambling experiences online. All these arguments about online being better, more in favor for the player, more wins, is straight bullshit.

And if you want proof, please i invite you over to come with me one day. I'd love to show you different.

As a man with a proven method on extra chilli you do seem to get most upset regarding slots.

the rants I’ve seen on here considering the amount you have won is bizarre.

yeah we all hate to lose, it’s crap.
but you won silly amounts in the past, then say slots are rigged and trance is a stone cutter from a secret sect of slot makers whom sole job is to rob people like you..

so after your method, the Money you made your still claiming ‘rigged’ and the like.. yet you deposit like a hooker buying condoms..

if it’s all so rigged and the likes of trance are merely liars and members of the stone cutters then why on earth would you fund this still?. Continue to gamble...

I’ll not accuse you of having a issue gambling, but I just find it odd that your happy to waste money on a hobby you think is having your pants down before you press spin..

i agree it’s not all as transparent as it’s claimed, I daily call out someone or a casino I don’t think is legit..

But mate if I thought the games where rigged for me to lose from the outset I’d leave faster than a gorgeous gay guy at a Barrymore pool party.

i will also agree my good goat (not that my opinion is correct) that the stake does affect the outcome, if it didn’t we would see some wins exceeding the max casino payout of 250k for example on a slot, DOA one and 2 also little devil and loads of slots have the potential to bankrupt a small casino, but on large stakes I’ve not seen this once.

so I’ll happily have my foil hat on regarding how stakes make a difference and are not the same.

i don’t think for a second it’s all rigged or they save your last wins etc (although the bastions of truth BTG) make me think otherwise..

But it’s not openly rigged, trance doesn’t have a curly moustache and thinks dastardly thoughts whilst making a slot...

But.... it’s certainly changeable regarding stakes for sure...

also massive apologise, that was way longer than intended..need a fag and a beer after that lol

 

[Bloatgoat]

No dude. I was'nt expecting a 250k win out of various deposits up to 200 euro over 3 casino's. But it tanked me so frigging fast that i kind of wondered like why in godsname am i or are we still playing this bullshit. Goto a landbased, seriously, and you'll get more fun out of that 200 euro incl drinks and food for perhaps a good 2 hours. And yet all the forum purists here claim that landbased have lower RTP's, frankly i dont care.

Ya'll seem to have "accepted" that losing 7 out of 10 times your deposit, is completely normal. It's like ya'll are hooked to a casino subscription now hoping to win the lotterly one day. It's not how i recall playing a slot in the first place to be honest. What good is 96% of RTP over a billion of spins if only a few people as long as my hand can count, are able to win extremely big and the rest is just there to fund / support that party.

Ya'll like it? Then i guess just continue what you do lol. Yes i've won a large large amount of money over the last few years. And i understand the risk of gambling as well; you gotta play and lose, for sometimes in order to win big. But the playball is being stretched even further these days. The budget you need is bigger. And the risk you need to take is becoming larger and larger if ya'll have'nt noticed.

Casino's are obviously pushing you into betting higher, making you lose faster, and for them to earn more on the long run. It's that simple. You can vote with that, but hey advocating that message here on a forum where the advertisements of casino's and free play is not desired here. I realise that. And thats why often my messages are being whoosed off like it does'nt exist. If you like what you see just keep playing on and fund these greedy fat cats. The business needs a reset.

 

[Playford7]

No dude. I was'nt expecting a 250k win out of various deposits up to 200 euro over 3 casino's. But it tanked me so frigging fast that i kind of wondered like why in godsname am i or are we still playing this bullshit. Goto a landbased, seriously, and you'll get more fun out of that 200 euro incl drinks and food for perhaps a good 2 hours. And yet all the forum purists here claim that landbased have lower RTP's, frankly i dont care.

Ya'll seem to have "accepted" that losing 7 out of 10 times your deposit, is completely normal. It's like ya'll are hooked to a casino subscription now hoping to win the lotterly one day. It's not how i recall playing a slot in the first place to be honest. What good is 96% of RTP over a billion of spins if only a few people as long as my hand can count, are able to win extremely big and the rest is just there to fund / support that party.

Ya'll like it? Then i guess just continue what you do lol. Yes i've won a large large amount of money over the last few years. And i understand the risk of gambling as well; you gotta play and lose, for sometimes in order to win big. But the playball is being stretched even further these days. The budget you need is bigger. And the risk you need to take is becoming larger and larger if ya'll have'nt noticed.

Casino's are obviously pushing you into betting higher, making you lose faster, and for them to earn more on the long run. It's that simple. You can vote with that, but hey advocating that message here on a forum where the advertisements of casino's and free play is not desired here. I realise that. And thats why often my messages are being whoosed off like it does'nt exist. If you like what you see just keep playing on and fund these greedy fat cats. The business needs a reset.

I agree to a point and I’m well against any promotion of a certain kind of promotion regarding casinos.

but to say there’s a method etc is just daft, whether it be land based or online.,
I’ve won more online than at any land based with all the free drinks, also it’s full of undesirables whom annoy me anyways.

online has the better RTP’s so over time it’s basic maths you will do better.

Granted I’m in the U.K. and not Vegas and our land based are about as entertaining as watching chi...
anyhow i prefer online at home, better odds and cheaper drinks mate, I’ve also a dog whom is a lot better looking than the plastic morons whom deal me cards at my land based.

it may be weighted certain ways but it’s not industry wide conspiracy that trance leads from a smoke filled parlour.. you won how much In the past?.. also realise the odds are on the house and RTP... don’t really get why your so upset?..

 

[Bloatgoat]

Well there is a simple method for landbased. Ive wrote it here before. Grab a 500 or 1000 cash with you. Head to your landbased casino. Now insert either 100 or 200 quanitity into the slot. Hit max bet. If it hits, congrats. If it does'nt hit. Move on to the next slot. Repeat the above. If your lucky, and ive found myself lucky 7 out of 10 times doing this, you'll hit a handpay. And you could leave the whole place within 10 minutes with cash in your pockets. What also works is, once you got a handpay, you could attempt the high limit slots. If you lose it, no worry's. It's money from the casino. But if it hits, your granted good amount of cash. It's just the way how these machines work. Play long enough and you'll understand.

I mean i've visited the landbased in Holland for around 2 to 3 years. I was a VIP. I never sticked too long in such places. I never took the inventations to be with other VIP's at theater's or a day out to meet a celebrety. Hanging around with other gambling fanatics is just not my thing.

I can guarantee you, that the above wont work on online. Because you got your 1 billion variance RTP. Your deposits could RIP in weeks, months. And there's the strange shit happening when you won big, hit cashout, you wont be winning for a longer time esp if it's a big cashout. If this is the RTP then why in the heck is this in effect on all slots in a online casino? You'd expect that other players by then would be experiencing the same, woud'nt they? I cant tell. But i find it fishy. I'm being mocked here that its just me, lol.

I can spawn you a nummerous amount of threads of people experiencing the very same. Oh excuse me for becoming frustrated for mocking DOA for 3 weeks long on various times of the day with a pretty big budget. And how the game is just ripping me off. Or as my last given example, be ripped in barely 20 minutes (considering the time it now takes to deposit btw from skrill, most casino's now shifted the "transaction" costs over to the player rather then taking these for their own account)... It really bothers me.

Then the bonus subject, lol. I stopped taking bonus on top of my deposit a long time ago. I just dont understand how games can suddenly show all the action when in your wagering requirement, and once you passed out of it without blowing yourself to shit, all the action is just gone. Any slot. At least i know when i play with real money, and not a wagering thing on top of it, that the action is kind of a real representation of the casino. And its most of the time just shit.

So there you have it; on how streamers can have all the action, as long as they are in a wagering cycle. Once they get out, it's done. Trust me. I dont know how they do it really the casino's, to suddenly have a extra advantage apart from the extra cash, to have more ongoing action then without one.

And as for the Extra Chilli discussion wether this was "legit" or an exploit in my opinion: i stay to my initial opinion on this one. This particular casino had it's buying bonusses limited on 500 a buy rather then the max 2000. Ive kept repeating buying bonusses on 500 for 3 straight days, eaking out my balance to a 70k in total on which i withdrawled 65.000 euro. The trick? For some reason, the buying bonusses on avg would always set me ahead after losing 7 times buying a bonus. So you play 7 games, lose 3500, the 8th will be a guaranteed win and gave me more then what ive spend on the 7 games initially.

I could litterally show you now to this day that Extra chilli on one particular casino plays completely different then a uncapped extra chilli at 2k max stake a buy on the other casino. It's far more difficult on ANY stake up to a limit of 500 buy on the first casino. Hell let alone the feature drop in of a minimum of 12 to 16 even. Impossible. The casino proberly has requested a tweaked game and they got it. It's like the volatility has bin cut off from that particular casino like mad.

 

[Playford7]

Well there is a simple method for landbased. Ive wrote it here before. Grab a 500 or 1000 cash with you. Head to your landbased casino. Now insert either 100 or 200 quanitity into the slot. Hit max bet. If it hits, congrats. If it does'nt hit. Move on to the next slot. Repeat the above. If your lucky, and ive found myself lucky 7 out of 10 times doing this, you'll hit a handpay. And you could leave the whole place within 10 minutes with cash in your pockets. What also works is, once you got a handpay, you could attempt the high limit slots. If you lose it, no worry's. It's money from the casino. But if it hits, your granted good amount of cash. It's just the way how these machines work. Play long enough and you'll understand.

I mean i've visited the landbased in Holland for around 2 to 3 years. I was a VIP. I never sticked too long in such places. I never took the inventations to be with other VIP's at theater's or a day out to meet a celebrety. Hanging around with other gambling fanatics is just not my thing.

I can guarantee you, that the above wont work on online. Because you got your 1 billion variance RTP. Your deposits could RIP in weeks, months. And there's the strange shit happening when you won big, hit cashout, you wont be winning for a longer time esp if it's a big cashout. If this is the RTP then why in the heck is this in effect on all slots in a online casino? You'd expect that other players by then would be experiencing the same, woud'nt they? I cant tell. But i find it fishy. I'm being mocked here that its just me, lol.

I can spawn you a nummerous amount of threads of people experiencing the very same. Oh excuse me for becoming frustrated for mocking DOA for 3 weeks long on various times of the day with a pretty big budget. And how the game is just ripping me off. Or as my last given example, be ripped in barely 20 minutes (considering the time it now takes to deposit btw from skrill, most casino's now shifted the "transaction" costs over to the player rather then taking these for their own account)... It really bothers me.

Then the bonus subject, lol. I stopped taking bonus on top of my deposit a long time ago. I just dont understand how games can suddenly show all the action when in your wagering requirement, and once you passed out of it without blowing yourself to shit, all the action is just gone. Any slot. At least i know when i play with real money, and not a wagering thing on top of it, that the action is kind of a real representation of the casino. And its most of the time just shit.

So there you have it; on how streamers can have all the action, as long as they are in a wagering cycle. Once they get out, it's done. Trust me. I dont know how they do it really the casino's, to suddenly have a extra advantage apart from the extra cash, to have more ongoing action then without one.

Reported for openly posting a method to get rich gambling.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Sure, it's free information from someone who's done it and considered doing a carreer out of it. But because of the registration duty i woud'nt become succesfull for really long. Sooner or later i'd be called in private and proberly have a ban on my ass for coming too often (and winning too much). Before i became a VIP, i knocked handpay after handpay into one landbased casino, most of the times i was there. I got the presence of the floor manager one particular night behind me all the time just watching what and how i was doing it.

Since then; they did change a few things on the machines. The most remarkable one was that the machine woud'nt pay out one big sum, but more like 3 to 4 smaller quantities in total to keep it 'fun' for other visitors as well. It took me a few visits before i figured that out. My ex gf back then was convinced that i just have a strong intuition on those machines and i just knew when it was going to hit.

I mean most of the folks that come into a casino obviously have no clue. Spend the whole evening maxing out a 100 euro and would be happy leaving with at least having their drinks paid. I came in billy hardcore bashing 1 grand in barely 10 minutes. Double or nothing.

 

[Playford7]

Sure, it's free information from someone who's done it and considered doing a carreer out of it. But because of the registration duty i woud'nt become succesfull for really long. Sooner or later i'd be called in private and proberly have a ban on my ass for coming too often (and winning too much). Before i became a VIP, i knocked handpay after handpay into one landbased casino, most of the times i was there. I got the presence of the floor manager one particular night behind me all the time just watching what and how i was doing it.

Since then; they did change a few things on the machines. The most remarkable one was that the machine woud'nt pay out one big sum, but more like 3 to 4 smaller quantities in total to keep it 'fun' for other visitors as well. It took me a few visits before i figured that out. My ex gf back then was convinced that i just have a strong intuition on those machines and i just knew when it was going to hit.

I mean most of the folks that come into a casino obviously have no clue. Spend the whole evening maxing out a 100 euro and would be happy leaving with at least having their drinks paid. I came in billy hardcore bashing 1 grand in barely 10 minutes. Double or nothing.

Can we as the casinomeister community all give you say £30. Then you go away and work your magic then return us all a healthy profit?...

 

[Bloatgoat]

No thx.

In a landbased casino, your kind of assured that the games and RTP and all that will remain the same. For years even. Online they could change this today, not running in your favor. Or change the T&A's without your knowledge when you login. Or change your favourite game for you to mess weeks with it, to figure out certain aspects has bin removed, changed or adjusted. Often not in your favour either.

 

[andym]

So is it random as to when it happens?

I say it happens many times. Not everytime. That’s why It is random for the players. But it is not random for the industry!

 

[trancemonkey]

No dude. I was'nt expecting a 250k win out of various deposits up to 200 euro over 3 casino's. But it tanked me so frigging fast that i kind of wondered like why in godsname am i or are we still playing this bullshit. Goto a landbased, seriously, and you'll get more fun out of that 200 euro incl drinks and food for perhaps a good 2 hours. And yet all the forum purists here claim that landbased have lower RTP's, frankly i dont care.

Ya'll seem to have "accepted" that losing 7 out of 10 times your deposit, is completely normal. It's like ya'll are hooked to a casino subscription now hoping to win the lotterly one day. It's not how i recall playing a slot in the first place to be honest. What good is 96% of RTP over a billion of spins if only a few people as long as my hand can count, are able to win extremely big and the rest is just there to fund / support that party.

Ya'll like it? Then i guess just continue what you do lol. Yes i've won a large large amount of money over the last few years. And i understand the risk of gambling as well; you gotta play and lose, for sometimes in order to win big. But the playball is being stretched even further these days. The budget you need is bigger. And the risk you need to take is becoming larger and larger if ya'll have'nt noticed.

Casino's are obviously pushing you into betting higher, making you lose faster, and for them to earn more on the long run. It's that simple. You can vote with that, but hey advocating that message here on a forum where the advertisements of casino's and free play is not desired here. I realise that. And thats why often my messages are being whoosed off like it does'nt exist. If you like what you see just keep playing on and fund these greedy fat cats. The business needs a reset.

Please all, don't try this method posted at the top if this rant. It will likely lose you all your money very quickly and sounds more like the behaviour of an addict than anything else.

 

[trancemonkey]

I say it happens many times. Not everytime. That’s why It is random for the players. But it is not random for the industry!

How can it be random for the users but not the industry?

 

[trancemonkey]

No thx.

In a landbased casino, your kind of assured that the games and RTP and all that will remain the same. For years even. Online they could change this today, not running in your favor. Or change the T&A's without your knowledge when you login. Or change your favourite game for you to mess weeks with it, to figure out certain aspects has bin removed, changed or adjusted. Often not in your favour either.

You have an extremely warped and incorrect view of land based

 

[andym]

How can it be random for the users but not the industry?

Don’t ask a question where you know the answer

 

[andym]

Well Rizk has the kind of support that automatically assumes you have a gambling issue when you talk to them, so i'm not too surprised.

Easy way to avoid not comfortable questions...

 

[Slottery]

How can it be random for the users but not the industry?

Guess that industry have enough variance to reach TRTP, players often might have discrepancies when compare actual RTP to theoretical one.

That's also one reason why there's no really need for industry to make conspiracies and complicated systems where all providers are included and made together to recognize players and give wins for some particular instead of just randomly to someone which would make more sense. Would be huge amount of work, most probably would have got busted about these violations and still not a single dime more income than letting games run like they are decided...

Still haven't seen single person here provided gameplay histories which could show these facts that slots are rigged and programmed to take some people money in particular, these are easy to get from casinos when asking all game transactions and then show that spreadsheet in any format it shows all these mystical things which are for now only happening in people heads until somebody could bother few minutes to compile some data together (most of casinos provide these as spreadsheet so there's no need for almost anything, just share it anonymously as google doc).

Also wonder this same statement what's coming from Bloatie all the time that X amount of sessions end up to be losing ones, how many sessions from 10 you would expect to be winning and how high you need to get your balance before you hit withdraw? Right away when it's even little bit above deposits or need to get deposit grow multiple times?

These machines still tell you clearly that you are expected to lose your money and get less back than you put in. If somebody really thinks these as investment or way to make money, would really recommend to think again. Even kids math can tell you that ROI in any slots is horrible and player must be really stupid if expecting to win from these really often.

If losing more than it's fun anymore, why don't you just use games as playmoney version? You get exactly same slot experience than with real money and don't have to spend so much time to find some conspiracies which then nobody bother to show even it would be really easy few minute task to get these examples and whole community could see with own eyes that something is so wrong than some posts state here.

For RG point of view, when fun stops.... maybe should stop playing with real money in total. Don't really understand how in earth anyone keep depositing all the time more when been sure about rigged games for so long time, would there be some better use for that money? If willing to spend this much to something you are sure is rigged, why not even bother to show it to people? I know it's boring when facts blame good conspiracies but these would really nice to see when it's so easy to show them.

 

[trancemonkey]

Don’t ask a question where you know the answer

Variance across users is clearly always going to happen. And, yes over a large number of users, the variance for the casino is limited, but this is just purely statistical and nothing to do with "rigged" or "dodgy" stuff going on...

 

[Bloatgoat]

Please all, don't try this method posted at the top if this rant. It will likely lose you all your money very quickly and sounds more like the behaviour of an addict than anything else.

Lol Ok. Whatever Trancemonkey.

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Interesting case.

Questioning the value of Betsoft's RNG audit
Betsoft claims that the random number generator used for its games is tested and audited by a Malta based organisation Quinel M Ltd. Its last published RNG certificate (attached to the bottom of this article) is dated February 2015. However the possibility of either nefarious intent or programmatic incompetence cannot be ruled out by this certificate. In simple terms, a game asks for a random number from the RNG, then maps that number to a result - a four symbol win or a losing spin for example. There is nothing stopping either a buggy or crooked game from ignoring the generated number and asking for a new one if it doesn't like the result, so for an audit to be effective it must test the simulated results of an actual game, not just the numbers generated by a RNG. On this point we found section P of the Quinel RNG report to be quite salient:

P) Additional information (RGR Part VI, 26.i) The RNG subject to testing (test item J14120011 - I001) was tested independently without any game connected; no integrations between RNG and games were tested.

So there you have it: this audit does not test the "end to end" interaction between Betsoft's games and the RNG to ensure that the results that a player actually sees are truly random. The RNG can be a correctly programmed piece of logic that always returns a random number, but this says nothing about the fairness of the operation of the games that use the RNG. The audit is practically worthless.

So it is quite possible, to have a game comply within the RNG and all that, but give the player a complete different result then what you might expect. Perhaps this might explain the variance and difference in between different casino's, one being more violent in relation of taking your money then the other.

 

[trancemonkey]

Lol Ok. Whatever Trancemonkey.

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Interesting case.



So it is quite possible, to have a game comply within the RNG and all that, but give the player a complete different result then what you might expect. Perhaps this might explain the variance and difference in between different casino's, one being more violent in relation of taking your money then the other.

Do you have a link to that report, looks interesting...

That said, all RNGs are tested independently of any client or game in order to be verified. The game test is entirely different, but what SHOULD happen in testing is that you pass a danger the same RNG outcome and the results should always be the same... if they are not, then something dodgy is indeed happening

And the conclusion at the end is not correct anyway... the RNG must be certified separately because the RNG is a separate piece of software. The game asks the RNG for a random number which is then used to generate the result....

 

[Bloatgoat]

Link was in the post, but i think you found it already looking by your edit. Well appearantly it's possible. And perhaps this might explain why i'm sometimes facing a far more difficult game in general while they all advertise with an avg of 96.x% of RTP. Could it be? Are there casino's in Malta that could apply this and still get away with it legally?

I love genuine randomness! Shit thats out of the blue.

 

[cncas2123]

Link was in the post, but i think you found it already looking by your edit. Well appearantly it's possible. And perhaps this might explain why i'm sometimes facing a far more difficult game in general while they all advertise with an avg of 96.x% of RTP. Could it be? Are there casino's in Malta that could apply this and still get away with it legally?

I love genuine randomness! Shit thats out of the blue.
View attachment 138927

So this is the acceptable side of randomness?
It seems to me that you only want to have a randomness that lets you win on every spin rather than real randomness which can give you 2 winning spins in a row or 10 losing spins in a row.
Remember when you are playing a slot the house will always win, otherwise all casinos would be out of business.

 

[Halvor]

So this is the acceptable side of randomness?
It seems to me that you only want to have a randomness that lets you win on every spin rather than real randomness which can give you 2 winning spins in a row or 10 losing spins in a row.
Remember when you are playing a slot the house will always win, otherwise all casinos would be out of business.

I enjoyed it more when he could predict the outcome of extra chilli.

 

[Bloatgoat]

I never wrote, 'predict' but it was a certain that after a 5 to 7 failed buys the next one would come back with a even higher, initial investment into the buying in the first place. So repeating that for 3 straight days my friend, gave me a 65k withdrawl.

So no matter how you bring it, if it was my illusion, if it was a genuine bug, or if something else fall from the sky, i managed to obtain 65k out of it! Something you'll proberly never get even close to loolll.

 

[Slottery]

So this is the acceptable side of randomness?
It seems to me that you only want to have a randomness that lets you win on every spin rather than real randomness which can give you 2 winning spins in a row or 10 losing spins in a row.
Remember when you are playing a slot the house will always win, otherwise all casinos would be out of business.

And that's so clearly stated everywhere that you should always expect to lose your money and nothing else as chance for winning is smaller than losing. Some people still repeat these same things that every X of X session is ending up to loss, what is surprise in there and how it come be surprise if playing slots for while?

Made quite long post in this thread bit earlier and have also repeated many times how much of these rigged things and patterns could be easily shown from gameplay history which can do show what actually happen.

Still all the time just own feeling feels best proof to post to forum instead of something what could be actually analyzed and shown to be true.

It's really hard to take seriously anyone who keep saying that should win from slots more often when that have every single time less chance than losing.

Conspiracy theories are cool and these can be done about almost everything but these rigged/compensated/notrandom etc... patterns can be so easily shown to all to make it some actual statement instead of repeating same story all over. I know that many people go bit crazy from slots and have really weird believings about tactics and what to do to win but would be cool to see these actually shown instead of making vague statements which have happened in one person head. It have same value of information than good old "icecream eating increase drowning deaths" and that's even packed with some actual numbers (yes, there is the correlation that when is hot summer weather more people drown and also more icecream is sold) , not like these rigged stories.

 

[Bloatgoat]

its just that, if your used to playing landbased, you kind of can expect either to play even or get ahead at some point. The thing with online is, the volatility is just so beserk and out of this world, that it can eat session after session after session. And because of your losing streak, you start to doubt your deposits, your type of play, your approach to your betting behaviour, you name it. Keep that going on for like a pretty good while and for some people lots of financial losses are into play, it's a toxic pool to be in really.

And having a winning day, like where every slot no matter what bet or strategy, is just winning all over the place, fuels this even more if you know what i mean. No wonder people spawn up rigged threads. If the providers feel like doing it because of profit loss due to corona, they could easily adjust RTP's to make even. Thats just how 'generous' these people are. They take yours and others money in just the run of a mouseclick.

 

[trancemonkey]

Link was in the post, but i think you found it already looking by your edit. Well appearantly it's possible. And perhaps this might explain why i'm sometimes facing a far more difficult game in general while they all advertise with an avg of 96.x% of RTP. Could it be? Are there casino's in Malta that could apply this and still get away with it legally?

I love genuine randomness! Shit thats out of the blue.
View attachment 138927

There is no link in the post, I just read your quote again

 

[Borgie]

Do you have a link to that report, looks interesting...

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Click on the above

 

[cncas2123]

its just that, if your used to playing landbased, you kind of can expect either to play even or get ahead at some point.

But why would you expect this when you are playing something that you know has the odds in the house favour? How can you expect to be ahead unless the slot is set at over 100% RTP?
And in regard to the £65K Chilli win, how many time’s did it work? How many times have you made that much since on it? How much have you given back from the 65K?

 

[Borgie]

[QUOTE="cncas2123, post:
And in regard to the £65K Chilli win, how many time’s did it work? How many times have you made that much since on it? How much have you given back from the 65K?
[/QUOTE]

Yes i am interested in this too. Is he saying that they have changed it so he cant win ?

 

[Halvor]

So no matter how you bring it, if it was my illusion, if it was a genuine bug, or if something else fall from the sky, i managed to obtain 65k out of it! Something you'll proberly never get even close to loolll.

Most likely not, because I will never hammen on at high stakes. If my goal was big profits I would invest, not bloody gamble.

With that said, neither will I spend hours of my life just a few months later complaining about losing 200 euro in a session.

But go on, keep telling us how fantastic you are at highrolling.

 

[neon claws]

So I guess this is the new weekly rigged games thread?

An observation I had the other night that I wouldn't dare post a thread about because you invariably sound like a nutjob and sore loser to boot is that quite often after a big win you get a few little "aftershocks" - so you'll be hammering away happily losing for hundreds of spins with barely a 2x pay to be seen, and then you get a big 200x pay, great! But the strange part is how often you seem to get a few 25x pays in the next few spins.

The reptilian conspiracy part of my brain says it must be because the win was "due" and it's now paying out your big win, plus some change.

The logical part of my brain says "funny how overactive pattern recognition works".

 

[trancemonkey]

Thanks.. didn't show as a link on my phone.
So now I have read the whole thing, the excerpt you copied and pasted in no way proves or even semi-proves anything. It is nothing more than guess work from people who don't know how games work or how testing and RNGs work.

Now, did BetSoft or the casino cock up with regards to the jackpot prize - possibly yes. However, all the claims and statements made after that are pure bullshit guesswork designed to inflame.

The RNG is tested independently to the game. It has to be certified separately and undergoes very rigorous testing (feel free to look at the freel available technical standards for information on what is required). The game then uses this RNG to determine its results, and when the game is tested, and issue with the RNG (if it was tampered with) would likely become apparent. Also, the RNG is a protected module, so if it were changed, the checksum would change and it would be obvious to any test house that this had been done.

So before you start throwing wild claims around, why don't you do some simple research and actually get the facts, rather than some fake news (damn I can't believe I said that!) that you have found on the internet and posit as true.

 

[trancemonkey]

So I guess this is the new weekly rigged games thread?

An observation I had the other night that I wouldn't dare post a thread about because you invariably sound like a nutjob and sore loser to boot is that quite often after a big win you get a few little "aftershocks" - so you'll be hammering away happily losing for hundreds of spins with barely a 2x pay to be seen, and then you get a big 200x pay, great! But the strange part is how often you seem to get a few 25x pays in the next few spins.

The reptilian conspiracy part of my brain says it must be because the win was "due" and it's now paying out your big win, plus some change.

The logical part of my brain says "funny how overactive pattern recognition works".

The logical part of your brain is good

 

[neon claws]

The logical part of your brain is good

I assume the old "ask me anything" thread is closed so I'll ask here:

Do these testing houses take into account accumulator wastage?

Eg; the Vikings go berzerk slot has 4 very slow to fill accumulators, now, a million spins from a single user with these will likely pay the trtp, but a thousand spins each from a thousand users? There's no way the vast majority of people will stop playing exactly after all four accumulators pay out simultaneously so the percentage of the wager dedicated to going into them is bound to be wasted.

Therefore you would expect the actual real life RTP of this slot (and indeed any slot with an accumulator function, especially multi-accumulators) to be well below advertised trtp.

Or do they somehow account for this in testing?

 

[Bloatgoat]

[QUOTE="cncas2123, post:
And in regard to the £65K Chilli win, how many time’s did it work? How many times have you made that much since on it? How much have you given back from the 65K?

Yes i am interested in this too. Is he saying that they have changed it so he cant win ?
[/QUOTE]

Trust me, ive set a large portion aside for myself. And i bought a car with it. No worry's. As for repeating the obvious; no, it did'nt work that good aftwards again. And i suspect that that casino is running some sort of gimped version of it, it has the same bet limitation of up to 10 euro rather then the full 40 euro on extra chilli, and the difficulty into the gambling wheel is like 3x worse compared to two other casino's i play at. To give you an example, it's very rare to hit the 20 and actually win or even the 24 now. And ive tried quite a few times since then. Lately they have bin changing all sorts of games in relation of maximum bet size.

They say it's to protect their customers, but yet allow the in house games with bets up to 250 euro a spin. Who are they kidding here. The profits on the in house game(s) are much more for them since there's no licensing fee's involved. It's just to cover their liability. I remember previous year someone won 90k with DOA. They paid out accordingly, they have that repuration tho. But after that the max bet was gimped again. And it's difficult to even land something "Good" on that game now using level 4 betsize compared to a level 2 betsize.

I'm sure they can play and fiddle around with RTP's, constant give you a base game win, in the numbering have it up to 96% and still make you lose your complete deposit, get where i'm going?

To give you an idea of my gambling habbits: twice a week on avg. I spend on avg 200 to 500 euro a week. Usually within 3 weeks i hit a deposit that covers just enough of that what i put in. Sometimes i do crazy, i go high limit, or i attempt to chase a DOA wildline on a high bet. It frustrates me that it can hang you on a leach lurking your budget away for weeks really.

But i play long enough to know, it is'nt really as we're presented. Random within parameters.

 

[trancemonkey]

I assume the old "ask me anything" thread is closed so I'll ask here:

Do these testing houses take into account accumulator wastage?

Eg; the Vikings go berzerk slot has 4 very slow to fill accumulators, now, a million spins from a single user with these will likely pay the trtp, but a thousand spins each from a thousand users? There's no way the vast majority of people will stop playing exactly after all four accumulators pay out simultaneously so the percentage of the wager dedicated to going into them is bound to be wasted.

Therefore you would expect the actual real life RTP of this slot (and indeed any slot with an accumulator function, especially multi-accumulators) to be well below advertised trtp.

Or do they somehow account for this in testing?

The old thread is closed but there is a new one

And no, sadly they don't - which is why i don't like long term persistence games. You're right that unless you play a very long time, you have no hope of getting to the total RTP...

 

[neon claws]

The old thread is closed but there is a new one

And no, sadly they don't - which is why i don't like long term persistence games. You're right that unless you play a very long time, you have no hope of getting to the total RTP...

So, what you're saying is.. they're RIGGED?????????

J/k

 

[Siohmy]

I like to think of myself as a fairly opened minded person. Generally I will not rule out any ideas that things may not be as they seem although burden of proof is on the accuser.

I'd actually say the bigger problem which is driving the, must be rigged, narrative is the abundance of shockingly designed slots over the last few years. You are always going to become more frustrated when faced with an ever increasing wave of slots which will eat 100x of your session money in 15 minutes. With larger, longer and more costly losing streaks the temptation to look to more dubious reasons is high.

Unfortunately it's a simple case that casinos found a nice cheap way of advertising through streamers and
the subsequent desire to show bigger and bigger wins overtook almost any desire to produce playable games. As a result unless you are very selective about your games you will get burnt over and over and over again to the point you can often go into a session just hoping to hit a bonus to slow the inevitable drain on your funds. The HTML switch has also provided a good excuse to dump many older, much more playable games or bring them back in almost unplayable format. I had a go on Ruby Slippers the other day and not only did the slippers bonus give me a previously very rare zero pay, it still gave me a 2x multiplier!!?? 2 times zero, yeah great. So clearly the manufacturers don't want you to go back to proper medium volatility slots.

This, rather than the theories often put forward is likely the real issue. As trancemonkey has said on numerous occasions, why would a reputable (not dodgy Russian sites) put their entire business at risk when the maths will earn them the money in the long run. The number of casinos lowering their RTP actually bears this out as this is the way to increase their revenue as it is perfectly legal.

I think the online, and the slot industry as a whole, is in trouble if I'm honest. Unless you are a hopeless addict there is really not much enticing about putting hours and quite a bit of money just grinding out for a rare bonus which despite "see I told you it had potential" will often spit 10-20x at you. Yes you want to win but, my god, even if a slot threw 1000x at me (a laughably "modest" win these days apparently) whilst doing F all for the other 11 months of the year I'd give up and I am very close to doing so, once you lose a customer it is bloody hard to get them back.

If you happen to be enticed by all the riches on offer, how long are you realistically going to stick around based on most of the common slots on offer these days. How many understand that the odds of even getting 1000x win are often in the hundreds of thousands to one?

Sorry for the rant and ramble. I haven't just lost the house or anything I can't afford even if it may sound like it. I just wanted to give my angle as to why people may often be reaching for the rigged argument rather than "slots, they're a bit sh1t these days aren't they?".

Finally for all those going through a rough patch, these figures are far from the worst but maybe will give you an idea of what to expect. Kept 4 months records for interest purposes, so also played more than I usually would to get a semblance of meaningful info.

22,564 spins at an average of 64p across a wide range of slots (admittedly quite a bit of BTG), lost on average 9p per spin so overall just under 86% RTP. Total loss £1,932.17. Biggest win in run: 273x.